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[Digital Foundry] Marvel's Spider-Man 2 PS5 Showcase Trailer Tech Breakdown
roosnam1980
Gold Member
sncvsrtoip
Member
feynoob
Banned
He is going to get mad.
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
I'm working. Someone summarize this.
Were they critical towards it or were they soft on criticism?
Were they critical towards it or were they soft on criticism?
diffusionx
Gold Member
it's an iteration of technology they've been working on for a long time, no surprise, and looks great. I don't know exactly what people were expecting but Spiderman 2018 was a punching bag for some reason too.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I mean thats pretty silly though. 1872p is what? 6 million pixels? 6.5? whats the point of targeting a resolution that high limiting your rendering budget when you can just target 1440p or 3.7 million and get almost double the GPU power in return?
Keep the DRS down to 1296p 3.0 million pixels for when shit gets too hectic.
CuteFaceJay
Member
Wait hasn't this game been out for a while now?
Fbh
Member
So basically nothing special.
Personally I just hope they have a lot of cool new gameplay elements yet to show
Very summarized:
Biggest improvements they see are environmental details (specially the buildings) and water rendering.
Being able to instantly switch from Peter to Miles without a loading screen or long transition is cool but we still don't know if it's something you'll be able to do at any time or just in specific moments.
Other than that it seems similar to the previous games but the only footage we have is of a pretty fast paced sequence so it's hard to analyze the finer details right now
Personally I just hope they have a lot of cool new gameplay elements yet to show
Very summarized:
Biggest improvements they see are environmental details (specially the buildings) and water rendering.
Being able to instantly switch from Peter to Miles without a loading screen or long transition is cool but we still don't know if it's something you'll be able to do at any time or just in specific moments.
Other than that it seems similar to the previous games but the only footage we have is of a pretty fast paced sequence so it's hard to analyze the finer details right now
ChiefDada
Gold Member
He's been harping on and on that targeting native 4k is the reason Ratchet PS5 and now Spiderman 2 is the reason why it doesn't look "next-gen" without any substantive evidence to support his claims. Now we see that Insomniac is actually implementing DRS with a seemingly large window, even for the 30fps fidelity mode.
He should take it as a lesson. But he won't.
sncvsrtoip
Member
6.2m to be precise, imo bigger hit to frame time is rt
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
RT reflections are typically 35% hit on performance on PC. 6.2/3.6 = 72% so much bigger hit.
But yes, combine those two and they are wasting a lot of GPU power on rendering pixels and RT reflections.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
What do you think DRS is doing?
Every frame is different. RT performance cost will vary based on scene. From Insomniac GDC talk there are scenes in ratchet where the RT render budget is relatively cheap.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Nobody can describe what "next gen" is supposed to look like. And when they do, they whip out tech demos. Which no game ever hits, because it's just a damned tech demo.
With that said, it's using DRS, so how does DRS impact the graphics budget? It will hit low when it needs to and hit high when it can, and 99% of the time you won't be able to discern the difference with how well the tech is now.
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Salty Popsicle
Banned
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
roosnam1980
Gold Member
how do they determine resolution from a streamed video?
too early for analysis imo , final release will set the record straight
too early for analysis imo , final release will set the record straight
arkhamguy123
Banned
Yeah the game doesn't look that good. You could rattle off a good handful of better looking games off the top of your head.
A complete let down for next Gen only.
A complete let down for next Gen only.
Gamerguy84
Member
Could you imagine being community manager at a hi profile studio like insomniac?
I have followed him for years and people go at him from every direction.
I have followed him for years and people go at him from every direction.
Salty Popsicle
Banned
I've been playing Star Wars: Jedi Survivor these last few weeks and I don't think the SpiderMan 2 demo shown is on the same level visually as that game.
rofif
Banned
as long as it's not FSR2, I am fine with softer but stabe image.
fsr2 though can go to hell
arkhamguy123
Banned
That's because it's not. There's PS4 games that clear Spider-Man 2.
It trades blows with games like days gone, the order 1886, red dead 2, last of us 2, uncharted 4, ghost of Tsushima and honestly loses.
The only, and I mean the only impressive thing was the slingshot and Spider-Man 2018 base game has been modded on pc to go faster than that running on rinky dink HDDs.
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
This must be a case of you need to see the game in person because based on the videos I've seen online, Jedi Survivor doesn't impress me one bit. HU, DF, and other outlets keep going on about how great the game looks but I just don't see it.
Luipadre
Member
This. Insomniacs games has one of the best IQ on console. Their temporal injection stuff is top tier tech.
itsjustJEFF
Member
I thought I was on video game Twitter all of a sudden... it's going to be fine, stop being so dramatic.
It's going to have a 30fps mode, it'll have a 60fps mode, and it's going to look really good on your TV/Monitor.
It's going to have a 30fps mode, it'll have a 60fps mode, and it's going to look really good on your TV/Monitor.
Crispy Gamer
Member
Raytracing everywhere is why the visuals are iterative but still looks great
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
The scale in Survivor is not on the same level either.
Show me a massive city you fly around with RT and traffic, NPCs, etc..
And that game still dips in performance. A massive city would bring that unoptimized game to its knees.
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diffusionx
Gold Member
It's reasonable to say that devs should focus less on framerate and resolution and more on other stuff, like what would a 1080p/30fps PS5 game look like? But then the game would get raked over the coals for being a 1080p/30fps game, that's just a fact. We've seen it a million times. Jedi Survivor and Forspoken both got criticized for their low base resolutions even though they were using FSR, and people have wanted devs to use techniques like FSR in console, and the whole point of these techniques is that you lower the base resolution lmao. So you're damned if you do damned if you don't. It's fixed hardware, you can't have it all, devs make choices based on how they feel to best present the game. They can't win.Nobody can describe what "next gen" is supposed to look like. And when they do, they whip out tech demos. Which no game ever hits, because it's just a damned tech demo.
With that said, it's using DRS, so how does DRS impact the graphics budget? It will hit low when it needs to and hit high when it can, and 99% of the time you won't be able to discern the difference with how well the tech is now.
I thought Spiderman 2018 looked spectacular on PS4 (Pro), one of the best looking games, and Remastered with RT made the game look even better, so I dunno, I think I'm ok with an iteration.
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Exactly at the Miles searching for Lizard section. That looks really similar to the initial reveal.
Salty Popsicle
Banned
Game definitely looks much better on a good HDR set and running on local hardware than any YouTube video will be able to show.
Fbh
Member
True. But to be fair to them they were just commenting on how instantaneous it is which is indeed impressive.
But that's just modern gaming for you. We are still mostly stuck in the Ps3 era of design. Gaming hasn't really evolved that much in the last 15 years aside from things looking nicer and being faster.
We've gone from "It would have been impossible to do this last gen" to "it would have been impossible to do this as quickly last gen"
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Salty Popsicle
Banned
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
What are you talking about? See below. They are still wasting 72% of their GPU budget on rendering pixels. And what evidence do you need? Ratchet was pixel counted and it was running at native 4k. What more evidence do we need?
This literally proves my point that A LOT of the GPU is needlessly wasted on rendering pixels. DRS is being used to maintain 30 fps in hectic scenarios but they main rendering target is much much higher than that which means they cant use that GPU power to do other stuff that would have a more tangible impact to visuals than pixel clarity. Yes, its not native 4k 8.2 million pixels, but 6.2 million when 3.6 million 1440p image offers fantastic image quality is still a gigantic waste of GPU resources. Which is precisely why DF and 99% of the posters here found the upgrades in Spiderman underwhelming.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
30 fps and down to 1400p?
I wonder why devs like this still aren't taking full advantage of the PS5s power nearing 3 years after the consoles release when this game comes out?
Give me the PS5 Pro sooner rather than later please.
I wonder why devs like this still aren't taking full advantage of the PS5s power nearing 3 years after the consoles release when this game comes out?
Give me the PS5 Pro sooner rather than later please.
Tiago Rodrigues
Member
These trailers have the difficulty settings usually on their easiest modes. I remember Uncharted trailers the same happened.
I wouldn't worry about the AI. It wasn't even this bad on the first game when i played it. I wouldn't worry.
YCoCg
Member
- Map has been overhauled to add more model details and assets to be less flat (Pylons, Antennas, Vents, Balconys, new buildings, etc)
- Map has been expanded to include Brooklyn and Queens in the same detail
- Ray Traced reflections return in this 30fps mode
- Water has improved a lot and also has Ray Traced reflections
- Dynamic 4k between 1296p at lowest and 1872p at highest
- Instant switching between characters also putting the SSD to good use
- Shadows still raster though unlike PC version of Spider-Man and Miles Morales that offers Ray Traced shadows
- Improved combat and move set for both characters
- However they think this is just an Iterative update, building on top of Spider-Man and Miles Morales whilst taking some things they've learned from PC versions
- Map has been expanded to include Brooklyn and Queens in the same detail
- Ray Traced reflections return in this 30fps mode
- Water has improved a lot and also has Ray Traced reflections
- Dynamic 4k between 1296p at lowest and 1872p at highest
- Instant switching between characters also putting the SSD to good use
- Shadows still raster though unlike PC version of Spider-Man and Miles Morales that offers Ray Traced shadows
- Improved combat and move set for both characters
- However they think this is just an Iterative update, building on top of Spider-Man and Miles Morales whilst taking some things they've learned from PC versions
diffusionx
Gold Member
Who says they aren't? Why do you think there is some secret sauce that they haven't figured out to generate more pixels?
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Nahh a lot of people keep telling me we don't need a Pro console because no games really push the PS5 as is
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I mean, you said it. Games look much better on your local 4K set with HDR and all the trimmings versus a video. But, oh you knowwwww!
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Even miles went down to 1800p from native 4k. Maybe even lower. Thats just the price you have to pay for a locked framerate. 99% of the time its native 4k. just like most of the time it will be 1872p or whatever its highest resolution is. Even Ratchet in its RT performance mode went all the way down to 1080p to ensure a 60 fps lock. But it mostly stayed at 1440p.
I game on PC and those 1% drops are a killer. They are mostly due to CPU bottlenecks and because most PC games dont bother implementing proper DRS, we have these goddamn stutters that you just dont see in console first party games because they are smart enough to downgrade the resolution. Doesnt mean the game isnt running at a much higher resolution than that.
Keep in mind, 1872 is still 6.2 million pixels so roughly 2 million short of native 4k. its still very high and very close to Miles' native 4k target. What they have done here is improve the RT reflections to cover the hudson river and other objects and thats likely where the extra GPU power is going. there ARE improvements just not the ones you would notice because RT is not exactly obvious all the time like better lighting and better textures.
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Portugeezer
Member
What impresses the most is that incomniac keeps pumping out the games.
If they took a couple more years like some other PS Studios I'm sure they could make it look a little nicer.
If they took a couple more years like some other PS Studios I'm sure they could make it look a little nicer.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
They literally churn games out like a machine. They are amazing!