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[Mibu no ookami]

Obviously, but I'd like to think most people with a modern console, at least a pro, do have one. My heart goes out to those that still don't, I recently upgraded myself.

People buy TVs WAY slower than gamers think.

I have family who own a PS5 and a Switch and they have a TV from probably 2010. Meanwhile, as an enthusiast, I've purchased 4 televisions in the last 14 years and 3 in the last 6.5 years.

I've seen averages online from anywhere between 7-12 years between buying new TVs. I think we're surprised when someone drops 700 dollars on a Pro but doesn't upgrade their tv, but in their mind, they might have just purchased a new tv in 2018 or 2019 and it just doesn't have 120hz support and they won't buy a new tv probably until probably 2028.

 

[viveks86]

You have to ask yourself what TV technology and what window of technology is important to you.

Will the PS6 support 144hz for example? I doubt it. Even the PS5 is largely behind most high end TVs, but if you bought an LG C8 for example in 2018, you're not getting 4K120, but the PS5 also doesn't support LFC at the system level despite being an AMD chipset. The PS4 Pro launched without support for 4K Blu-rays. I think Sony is no longer really looking to push their consoles to be as high end as they can be after the PS3.

So what will you get from a PS6 that a tv sold today won't support? I don't think there's much of anything. There will be TVs pushing 144hz and even 240hz and real 8K, but I don't think the PS6 will sniff any of that and even if it does support it technically, I don't think any games will make use of it.

Nothing to do with the PS6 per se. Other than timing and an easy excuse to convince my wife (and to some extent, myself) that our 9 year old 4K LED (will be 12 by then) just ain't good enough anymore.

The thing refuses to fail or even show any signs of aging. And I refuse to buy new things until they break (except playstations of course)

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Its funny, what would be a better upgrade for me was if Remote play went to 1440p/120. Then for the odd title at 40 I could just stream it to my external monitor on the Mac. Was hoping for some love with the Pro, but now have to wait on the PS6 and maybe even that doesn't get >60, but presumably >1080p at least.

I think remote play is in serious infancy. I feel as though they rebooted the remote play program entirely along with streaming. I do think that the next generation Portal will probably be 120hz but who knows when that will come out, definitely in the PS6 era though. I imagine there would be a lot of challenges they'll have to solve before they can deliver 120 frames.

 

[adamsapple]

I... I can't relate to this at all. Ummmm.... ok?

I didn't either until I tried it

Anyway, a 120hz VRR display is a great complement to this console gen.

 

[Bitstream]

You need to secure your TV spending outside of the entertainment budget. Convince your wife that you owe the cartels a few thousand for gambling debts, then convince her they gave you the TV as a bonus for paying early.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Nothing to do with the PS6 per se. Other than timing and an easy excuse to convince my wife (and to some extent, myself) that our 9 year old 4K LED (will be 12 by then) just ain't good enough anymore.

The thing refuses to fail or even show any signs of aging. And I refuse to buy new things until they break (except playstations of course)

I feel as though tvs last WAY longer now. I feel as though we're not that far off from flat screen technology which was replaced by flat panel.

I bought a 42 inch Panasonic plasma tv in 2011 and I was waiting for it to die out, but it never did. I ended up getting a LG OLED C8 in 2018 and gifted the Panasonic.

TVs might actually last TOO long... I feel for people who are still watching TV via 1080p or worse 1080i/720p TVs. Worse maybe gaming on them.

 

[Bojji]

vs. maxed out Mirage

Mirage has baked GI for few times of day (like Unity) so it's a bit better than non RT version of Shadows but for sure it would look much better with RTGI...

 

[viveks86]

You need to secure your TV spending outside of the entertainment budget. Convince your wife that you owe the cartels a few thousand for gambling debts, then convince her they gave you the TV as a bonus for paying early.

Great idea! Then I can keep the TV and the house motel room all to myself!

 

[Killer8]

I think the reflections are very easy to skip given the setting and the low quality. I can understand wanting to go for the eye candy, but a 40fps mode makes the 30 one redundant.

Balanced looks like a good compromise between Performance and Quality but Quality does still do several things better.

Just based on the footage in the DF video, I can spot things that Oliver just doesn't pick up on. The RTGI for example looks a bit lower quality in Pro Balanced mode. Look at the difference in shading in the big empty space beneath the two large baskets:

The RTGI on Pro Balanced mode actually looks closer to base PS5 Quality mode in that shot.

It's easy to compare the slam dunk of PS5 Performance vs Pro Performance when it comes to RTGI, but I think they need to do a more thorough comparison of the RTGI between the Quality modes of both consoles.

The shadow maps also look better in Pro Quality mode. It's funny because right when Oliver says "the shadow maps look to be similar in both modes", the images on screen show the opposite lol:

It's a shame the ray-traced reflections have some issues but they do create a more consistent look in the game world to me. Compare at the 5:52 mark:



Even from a flat perspective, ray-traced looks way better, and that's not even mentioning how SSR falls to pieces as soon as the reflection isn't being looked at from head on.

These things all seem like small improvements but I recently played Rise of the Ronin in its quality mode on the Pro and find that small improvements can add up to create a totally different feel that can be worth the framerate hit. I don't think Shadows has the same level of technical incompetence as that game, and Balanced does look perceptually pretty close to Quality here, but it can still mean the difference between a pretty good looking game and a game that looks very good. It's not even a case of "this setting is a little bit higher so the game looks a bit nicer", it can be a case of the visuals looking close to flawless once the last few distractions are eliminated.

 

[Negotiator101]

£700 worth?

 

[Certinty]

That performance mode on base PS5 looks bad.

Gotta say i’m a little shocked they even gave that console a 60fps mode when the difference is that drastic but good on giving the player choice.

 

[viveks86]

I feel as though tvs last WAY longer now. I

Sometimes when I see that the balanced mode for a game hits my sweet spot, I actually consider doing an "oopsie" and knocking it over

 

[adamsapple]

Sometimes when I see that the balanced mode for a game hits my sweet spot, I actually consider doing an "oopsie" and knocking it over

 

[Gaiff]

£700 worth?

Right now more than ever. RTX 40 and RDNA3 have been discontinued. RTX 50 and RDNA4 are out of stock or overpriced. Will have to wait a few months for the situation to come back to normal.

 

[Topher]

£700 worth?

 

[viveks86]

Balanced looks like a good compromise between Performance and Quality but Quality does still do several things better.

Just based on the footage in the DF video, I can spot things that Oliver just doesn't pick up on. The RTGI for example looks a bit lower quality in Pro Balanced mode. Look at the difference in shading in the big empty space beneath the two large baskets:

The RTGI on Pro Balanced mode actually looks closer to base PS5 Quality mode in that shot.

It's easy to compare the slam dunk of PS5 Performance vs Pro Performance when it comes to RTGI, but I think they need to do a more thorough comparison of the RTGI between the Quality modes of both consoles.

The shadow maps also look better in Pro Quality mode. It's funny because right when Oliver says "the shadow maps look to be similar in both modes", the images on screen show the opposite lol:

It's a shame the ray-traced reflections have some issues but they do create a more consistent look in the game world to me. Compare at the 5:52 mark:



Even from a flat perspective, ray-traced looks way better, and that's not even mentioning how SSR falls to pieces as soon as the reflection isn't being looked at from head on.

These things all seem like small improvements but I recently played Rise of the Ronin in its quality mode on the Pro and find that small improvements can add up to create a totally different feel that can be worth the framerate hit. I don't think Shadows has the same level of technical incompetence as that game, and Balanced does look perceptually pretty close to Quality here, but it can still mean the difference between a pretty good looking game and a game that looks very good. It's not even a case of "this setting is a little bit higher so the game looks a bit nicer", it can be a case of the visuals looking close to flawless once the last few distractions are eliminated.

For academic and objective reasons, these are all solid observations and the type of stuff DF should put more effort into. I think Alex does (when performance isn't so bad that he throws the baby out with the bath water). But Oliver does gloss over them often. Subjectively at TV viewing distances, these differences are way too subtle though. A lot of what you are pointing may be directly tied to the resolution difference. I really don't agree that the qualifiers are "pretty good" and "very good" for the two modes. More like "pretty good" and "slightly better". The game still doesn't wow me. May be when maxed out on a PC. But I looked at some footage of that too and it's still just "pretty good". This won't even be on my top 10 best looking games so far this gen.

 

[Killer8]

Pro Balanced definitely uses the same RTGI setting as Base Quality:

Base Quality:

Pro Balanced:

Pro Quality:

Pro Quality looks like it has less light leakage issues.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Sometimes when I see that the balanced mode for a game hits my sweet spot, I actually consider doing an "oopsie" and knocking it over

I begged my tv for 2 years to die before just telling myself, I bought this thing for 749 dollars, it's lasted 7 years, it's served its purpose at 29 cents a day...

 

[phant0m]

</sigh>

More dogshit RT -> dogshit frame rates.

News at 11.

 

[Corporal.Hicks]

I know the PS5Pro version is not running at ultra settings, but looking at these results (gamegpu benchmark) I think 60fps on consoles is still an awesome result even if the game runs at 1080p in performance mode. If only Ubisoft could implement PSSR the game should look very good on 4K TV from normal viewing distance.

Assassin’s Creed Shadows тест GPU/CPU | Action / FPS / TPS | TEST GPU

Мы провели тестирование новейшей игры Assassin’s Creed Shadows на максимальных настройках графики с видеокартами сери

gamegpu.com

 

[SKYF@ll]

I know the PS5Pro version is not running at ultra settings, but looking at these results (gamegpu benchmark) I think 60fps on consoles is still an awesome result even if the game runs at 1080p in performance mode. If only Ubisoft could implement PSSR the game should look very good on 4K TV from normal viewing distance.

Assassin’s Creed Shadows тест GPU/CPU | Action / FPS / TPS | TEST GPU

Мы провели тестирование новейшей игры Assassin’s Creed Shadows на максимальных настройках графики с видеокартами сери

gamegpu.com

Enabling RTGI and running at 60fps is a heavy workload for the PS5 Pro (the CPU is also close to its limit).
On the other hand, it can be assumed that the Pro has more room to maneuver in 40fps mode, making it easier to implement PSSR.

 

[Physiognomonics]

I know the PS5Pro version is not running at ultra settings, but looking at these results (gamegpu benchmark) I think 60fps on consoles is still an awesome result even if the game runs at 1080p in performance mode. If only Ubisoft could implement PSSR the game should look very good on 4K TV from normal viewing distance.

Assassin’s Creed Shadows тест GPU/CPU | Action / FPS / TPS | TEST GPU

Мы провели тестирование новейшей игры Assassin’s Creed Shadows на максимальных настройках графики с видеокартами сери

gamegpu.com

Haha those stats are super hard to read. Or I am too tired, probably both.

 

[adamsapple]

Pro Balanced definitely uses the same RTGI setting as Base Quality:

Looks like it could just be different time of day captures.

Look at the beams of the window on the right, they're illuminated slightly differently on each picture, possibly slight alterations on where the in-game sun is at that time and the light source coming from it.

Usually in cases with RTGI, DF do point out the quality difference if applicable. Eg the Indiana Jones comparison, they pointed out specifically that Series S's RTGI is lower quality and more coarser than Series X's.

RT quality is also reducced, with less precision overall that opens the door to light leak and other artefacts or changes.

The Xbox Series S presentation is lower-res, has reduced texture quality, and RTGI is more coarse too. Still, the game plays well enough, even if its flaws are obvious on a large-format 4K display

 

[Shmunter]

We're currently in a transition period between baked lighting and global illumination. Software developers are expected to provide both options (ie do twice the work) in order to support every console/PC set up, but that transition period is going to end at some point. What will happen is that developers will slowly abandon baked lighting. They'll still support it, but they won't put in the work anymore in order to save money.

I don't mind. I'm good with an RTX 40090 PC setup and a PS5 Pro.

The unfortunate aspect of such a move is rendering resources going to a lighting solutions leaving less for other visuals. Not many games need these computational solutions and is the reason next Gen games often do not look any better than last Gen. End user doesn’t care what tech is used, they care for what is displayed.

 

[TehGoomba7s]

That performance mode on base PS5 looks bad.

Gotta say i’m a little shocked they even gave that console a 60fps mode when the difference is that drastic but good on giving the player choice.

75% of PS5 users play on performance modes, omitting it would be stupid.

 

[memoryman3]

Play at a cinematic 30fps, and the difference is minimal. The worthwhile upgrade would be the one from Xbox Series S to Series X in this game, as the S version lacks raytracing completely beyond the Hideout.

 

[Kings Field]

so PS5 pro is the best place to play this slop.

 

[viveks86]

The unfortunate aspect of such a move is rendering resources going to a lighting solutions leaving less for other visuals. Not many games need these computational solutions and is the reason next Gen games often do not look any better than last Gen. End user doesn’t care what tech is used, they care for what is displayed.

Actually, the end user that cares about what is displayed appears to be as small a minority as the end user that cares about the future graphics tech. The majority are playing monster hunter wilds on their 8 gb cards.

 

[kevboard]

Pro Balanced definitely uses the same RTGI setting as Base Quality:

Base Quality:

Pro Balanced:

Pro Quality:

Pro Quality looks like it has less light leakage issues.

they all probably use the exact same settings.
raytracing quality is highly dependent on the render resolution, as the amount of rays being cast is usually bound to the resolution.

more rays = higher precision = less leakage.

so the simple fact that the quality mode runs at a higher resolution means it also has higher quality raytracing by default

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

Didn't realize it only cost $699 to take a time travel trip back to Feudal Japan.

Yes because the grass and nature and 200+ year old structures still dont exist in Japan.

 

[Mr Moose]

I think one of the better gaming decisions I made near the start of this gen was getting a 32inch 4K monitor that ended up supporting 120hz/VRR on both Series and PS5. It's gonna last me the entire 6, 7 years gen lasts and more.

I've come to appreciate gaming closer to a screen with headphones over sitting farther back on a sofa with a speaker system more.

I am 3 feet away from a 50", I agree.

 

[Shmunter]

Actually, the end user that cares about what is displayed appears to be as small a minority as the end user that cares about the future graphics tech. The majority are playing monster hunter wilds on their 8 gb cards.

People aren’t blind, of course they care for what is displayed, otherwise Pong would still be the gfx benchmark.

Caring for certain gameplay is not mutually exclusive to the above.

 

[viveks86]

People aren’t blind, of course they care for what is displayed, otherwise Pong would still be the gfx benchmark.

Caring for certain gameplay is not mutually exclusive to the above.

That’s not what I meant though. It’s to what extent they care. AC shadows does not look like pong. It looks good enough to cross the majority’s threshold of acceptable. The ones arguing/complaining about how it looks (includes both of us) are a minority.

 

[Bitstream]

I know the PS5Pro version is not running at ultra settings, but looking at these results (gamegpu benchmark) I think 60fps on consoles is still an awesome result even if the game runs at 1080p in performance mode. If only Ubisoft could implement PSSR the game should look very good on 4K TV from normal viewing distance.

Thanks for sharing this additional context. With this frame of reference you need a damn 5080 or better for 60fps at 1080, a graphics card that costs more alone than the console itself. Not a bad value proposition with the pro.

 

[Shmunter]

That’s not what I meant though. It’s to what extent they care. AC shadows does not look like pong. It looks good enough to cross the majority’s threshold of acceptable. The ones arguing/complaining about how it looks (includes both of us) are a minority.

But that’s not the conversation we were having, it was in regards to the technology behind delivering results to the screen that is irrelevant to the end user. The final result is all that matters.

 

[Bojji]

My impressions from PC version:

- it's not bad!
- with extended RT (reflections and GI) and very high settings + DLSS4 Performance and hairstrands for EVERYONE on medium I get 60fps pretty much locked (so far...)
- HDR is very good (much better than in Mirage and Valhalla)
- Overall graphics are good (minus NPCs details)
- reflex is always on but hidden in menu

Screens are darker than they should be, I have taken them with HDR on:

 

[Camper182]

According to Elanalistadebits 40fps mode runs at dynamic 1440p.

If that's the case then i don't feel too bad only having a HDMI 2.0 TV.

 

[dotnotbot]

So 20 fps more for double the price

 

[Topher]

So 20 fps more for double the price

And? People have paid more for a higher class of GPU for about the same difference. That's why Pro is marketed towards enthusiasts.

 

[Tqaulity]

I’m at GDC this week and all I will say is that what the Pro version looks like at launch is not all that Ubisoft has planned.

 

[Synastry]

My impressions from PC version:

- it's not bad!
- with extended RT (reflections and GI) and very high settings + DLSS4 Performance and hairstrands for EVERYONE on medium I get 60fps pretty much locked (so far...)
- HDR is very good (much better than in Mirage and Valhalla)
- Overall graphics are good (minus NPCs details)
- reflex is always on but hidden in menu

Screens are darker than they should be, I have taken them with HDR on:

Why do you feel the need to post your PC impressing on a PS5 PRO thread?

Spoiler

Are you that insecure?

 

[Bojji]

Why do you feel the need to post your PC impressing on a PS5 PRO thread?

Spoiler

Are you that insecure?

Hahaha. There is no dedicated PC thread yet. Plus you can somewhat compare consoles and PC on screenshots.

Insecure about what exactly? Some of you guys will never stop to amaze me...

 

[Synastry]

Hahaha. There is no dedicated PC thread yet. Plus you can somewhat compare consoles and PC on screenshots.

Insecure about what exactly? Some of you guys will never stop to amaze me...

The OT for that game is a good place to post your pc impressing since a general thread for the game.

But whatever spamming every ps5 pro thread is your specialty.

 

[Bojji]

The OT for that game is a good place to post your pc impressing since a general thread for the game.

But whatever spamming every ps5 pro thread is your specialty.

I will keep spamming Pro threads, just for you

 

[viveks86]

I’m at GDC this week and all I will say is that what the Pro version looks like at launch is not all that Ubisoft has planned.

But… but you can’t be this vague. It’s… illegal!

 

[adamsapple]

I know you said the images are darker than it looks, but I really like the colors in this one.

Also, does the cut-scenes being locked at 31fps feel juddery to you?

 

[Bojji]

I know you said the images are darker than it looks, but I really like the colors in this one.

Also, does the cut-scenes being locked at 31fps feel juddery to you?

In 120hz output there is no issue (LFC just makes it 62Hz) but I tested 60Hz as well and there is some judder, but of course cutscenes are the least important part of the game when it comes to framerate,

Quite idiotic thing they did with that (I don't like framecaps in cutscenes in general)

 

[diffusionx]

People buy TVs WAY slower than gamers think.

I have family who own a PS5 and a Switch and they have a TV from probably 2010. Meanwhile, as an enthusiast, I've purchased 4 televisions in the last 14 years and 3 in the last 6.5 years.

I've seen averages online from anywhere between 7-12 years between buying new TVs. I think we're surprised when someone drops 700 dollars on a Pro but doesn't upgrade their tv, but in their mind, they might have just purchased a new tv in 2018 or 2019 and it just doesn't have 120hz support and they won't buy a new tv probably until probably 2028.

yes, people on this forum dont get it

the consooooomerism on display here disgusts me sometimes.

 

[evanft]

vs. maxed out Mirage

Mirage has baked GI for few times of day (like Unity) so it's a bit better than non RT version of Shadows but for sure it would look much better with RTGI...

The more I look at the RTGI, the better it gets. Everything just looks so much more natural.

 

[SKYF@ll]

I'm curious what the resolution of the PS5 Pro's Balanced Mode is.