HBO Original | The Last of Us | Part II OT | You Can't Stop This

wait...what alternate reality have i stepped into about the game? It sits at 93 on metacritic, sold over 10M copies, one of the biggest GOTY winners in videogame history...you would think it was some major flop in every way lmao.
 
Just did some more reading on the viewership plummet. It's actually worse than I thought.

A two year wait just to see Abby's perspective? Is the average viewer even going to care to watch the character that killed Pedro for an entire season? Seems to me they fucked up by not shooting 10 episodes and switched perspectives back and forth during Season 2.
 
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Seems like someone really can't stand the criticism around the IP or the handling of its story:



The reception is not even the same. The Last of Us Part II has been rated well by people who actually played it. It has a 4.5 rating on the PlayStation Store with over 100 Player Choice Awards in 2020.

I'm seeing a lot of people who are disappointed with Season 2, and at least 95% of them are from TLOU2 fans.
One look at your tag explains everything. I've already witnessed the depths some extreme fans will try to go to salvage the remains of this IP's reputation. A litter dump of game awards matters little to me.

Look, I get it. You like this game. Heck, you might even be willing to adore everything attached to the ND brand and that's okay. I think the audience response is a mix of various reasons, the infamous story execution included. So, I'm just going to disagree with you there.
 
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One look at your tag explains everything. I've already witnessed the depths some extreme fans will try to go to salvage the remains of this IP's reputation. A litter dump of game awards matters little to me.

Look, I get it. You like this game. Heck, you might even be willing to adore everything attached to ND brand and that's okay. I think the audience is mix of various reasons, the infamous story execution included. So, I'm just going to disagree with you there.

What's extreme is complaining about the game every single time someone mentions Naughty Dog or The Last of Us Part II. You get labeled as a Naughty Dog defender just because you decide to debunk lies. What's funny is that you didn't dispute anything that I said about the user scores from people who actually played the game. If it was as bad as you claim, then the scores would be lower.
 
What's extreme is complaining about the game every single time someone mentions Naughty Dog or The Last of Us Part II. You get labeled as a Naughty Dog defender just because you decide to debunk lies. What's funny is that you didn't dispute anything that I said about the user scores from people who actually played the game. If it was as bad as you claim, then the scores would be lower.
You want me to dispel user scores for you too? I don't particularly care about that either. Satisfied now?

Listen, I don't feel like disputing anything with you. You're welcome to adore the game as much as you like as I stated previously.
 
You want me to dispel user scores for you too? I don't particularly care about that either. Satisfied now?

Listen, I don't feel like disputing anything with you. You're welcome to adore the game as much as you like as I stated previously.

You said the reception repeats itself, but when I pull the numbers, it doesn't matter.... lol. Ok. Well, nothing to see here.
 
Two years to see the perspective of a character that killed the person who people considered the star of the show.

This could have worked if they casted her to play Ellie instead.
 
Drunkman recently said that the fireflies were about to make the cure, so he killed any ambiguity that made many people love the first game ending.





So he goes against what the game says to try and justify his decisions as the creator of the second game.

Seems like he is attempting to retroactively change the message of the first game.

I don't think its fair to say, after the fact that a cure WOULD be made when the game says it might not work and that's the info Joel is working from
 
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So he goes against what the game says to try and justify his decisions as the creator of the second game.

Seems like he is attempting to retroactively change the message of the first game.

I don't think its fair to say, after the fact that a cure WOULD be made when the game says it might not work and that's the info Joel is working from

There's nothing in the game that even suggests that wouldn't work.

If the game wanted to tell the audience that the cure wasn't possible, then Joel's decision would be the only one that mattered, and not Ellie's.

Joel and Marlene knew what Ellie wanted, and that's why Joel killed Marlene and lied to Ellie. What did Joel say right before he killed Marlene? "You'll just come after her." He wasn't worried about Marlene coming after him, he was worried about Marlene coming after Ellie.
 
Just did some more reading on the viewership plummet. It's actually worse than I thought.

A two year wait just to see Abby's perspective? Is the average viewer even going to care to watch the character that killed Pedro for an entire season? Seems to me they fucked up by not shooting 10 episodes and switched perspectives back and forth during Season 2.
I read that the average viewership was around the same or even higher than on season 1 when counting all the episodes.

I liked the finale but it feels very risky to make the next season mostly about Abby. It works in a game because you don't have to wait. But good that they follow their vision and not what makes the most money.
 
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There's nothing in the game that even suggests that wouldn't work.

If the game wanted to tell the audience that the cure wasn't possible, then Joel's decision would be the only one that mattered, and not Ellie's.

Joel and Marlene knew what Ellie wanted, and that's why Joel killed Marlene and lied to Ellie. What did Joel say right before he killed Marlene? "You'll just come after her." He wasn't worried about Marlene coming after him, he was worried about Marlene coming after Ellie.
But you'll have to be fair and also point out there's not enough in the game to reasonably suggest they could've made enough vaccines to make a difference.
 
…Who are these people? 😂

i-m-here-come-pick-me-fk5avoxnxl2fjadb.gif



But tbf, i could not stand her since the first game :lollipop_squinting:
 
I read that the average viewership was around the same or even higher than on season 1 when counting all the episodes.

I liked the finale but it feels very risky to make the next season mostly about Abby. It works in a game because you don't have to wait. But good that they follow their vision and not what makes the most money.

What you probably read is that Season 2 is at 37 million globally, whereas Season 1 was at 32 million in just the US.
 
Ellie was annoying in the game, even worse in the show IMO. I think Abby will be even better in the show. I think season 3 will be an improvement over season 2. Basically, Ellie's chapter of TLOU2 I think was the hardest part of the series to adapt to TV. It's over and done with now. Abby is easier to adapt. They've shown they've already made a good choice in Kaitlyn Dever. And season 3 isn't going to end on a cliffhanger like season 2 did, because Abby's chapter doesn't. The question is will anyone still care by then enough to tune in and not have season 4 cancelled.
 
So to be clear here, you are both liking season 2's depiction of her more?

I need to figure out what you guys are seeing in live action season 2 Ellie that comes across better.
Dude i'm not even watching this shit, i thought you were talking about the game :lollipop_grinning_sweat:

I guess i "prefer" the vg version compared to the serial version but it's a very tiny preference, i find both annoying for different reasons.
 
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Why are people pretending like this isn't memorial day weekend and tv ratings are always going to be lower on holiday weekends. If your mission is to be negative at least be honest and make logical arguments.

Logical arguments? About TLOU2?

That ship shield the moment the second game leaked. Hasn't been about logic since then.
 
The Abby arc of the game is a lot more linear with fewer characters so will work better as a TV show, as will the last section as it's focused on two characters. I think they struggled a bit with pacing in this half of LoU2 with all the stories to fit in.
 
Seems like someone really can't stand the criticism around the IP or the handling of its story:




One look at your tag explains everything. I've already witnessed the depths some extreme fans will try to go to salvage the remains of this IP's reputation. A litter dump of game awards matters little to me.

Look, I get it. You like this game. Heck, you might even be willing to adore everything attached to the ND brand and that's okay. I think the audience response is a mix of various reasons, the infamous story execution included. So, I'm just going to disagree with you there.

He has a lot of criticisms I agree with in his video, but there's one I strongly disagree with and it's the same thing Angry Joe has been arguing. That they should have used the show as an opportunity to change the story and either not kill off Joel or do it entirely differently. At that point, why even make season 2 in the first place? They can't change the foundation of the game's story, that's ridiculous. It's an adaptation. I think some people hated the game so much they were hoping the show would retcon it for the better, but that was never going to happen and expecting it to do that is silly. If anything, my criticisms for the show is they didn't follow the game enough. I would have loved this season if they didn't change their portrayal of Ellie to the degree they did.
 
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Could you imagine the meltdowns if future versions of The Last of Us had new models for the characters based on the TV show actors like Spider-Man did for the Marvel movies? Surfing GAF would be so much fun.
 
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This touches on a lot of the stuff I mentioned in this thread. I think he's spot on. One thing he mentioned that I didn't is that in the show Jesse treats Ellie like a child and in the game they're friends. And he's right. I forgot a lot about their dynamic in the game, but after he mentioned it, it dawned on me. His biggest gripe with the season is how Ellie was written and I'm 100% with that. I still don't think season 2 was awful or anything, but if they would have just kept Ellie like the game, even with Bella playing her, I think season 2 would have been perfectly fine. Really good, even.
 
wait...what alternate reality have i stepped into about the game? It sits at 93 on metacritic, sold over 10M copies, one of the biggest GOTY winners in videogame history...you would think it was some major flop in every way lmao.

Apparently a favorite character dying and a muscular woman making nerds feel less like men far outweighs the best playing 3rd person action game of all time 🤷🏾‍♀️🤷🏾‍♀️
 
So the season finale is a mess, and in my opinion the worst episode of either season. I feel like I need to amend my previous statement about Mazin's creative vision for Ellie being incompatible with Druckmann's, because that would imply that Mazin even had a coherent vision for the character to begin with. The writers clearly want us to feel more sympathetic towards Ellie than her game counterpart, but every change they went for just makes her more unlikeable. Having her talk about how easy it was to torture Nora only makes her look like a sociopath. They changed Jesse's character to make him more overtly sanctimonious, but he's still completely in the right, so Ellie's tantrum when he calls her out for not helping Tommy so she can go after Abby only makes her look delusional and petulant. Changing Mel's death to be accidental only makes Ellie look incompetent.

But the part that made this episode terrible, instead of merely mediocre, was this exchange near the end when Ellie questions Jesse about why he came back for her:

Jesse: "The thought did occur if I were out there somewhere, lost and in trouble, you would set the world on fire to save me."
Ellie: *nodding* "I would."

I was so taken aback by this outrageous attempt at whitewashing Ellie's character that I literally shouted at my television "NO YOU WOULDN'T". Did they forget how we just watched Ellie abandon a friend who was in trouble in this same episode? It's such a baffling decision that I could hardly believe that a team of supposedly professional writers would sign off on it.

So yeah....it ain't great.
 
So the season finale is a mess, and in my opinion the worst episode of either season. I feel like I need to amend my previous statement about Mazin's creative vision for Ellie being incompatible with Druckmann's, because that would imply that Mazin even had a coherent vision for the character to begin with. The writers clearly want us to feel more sympathetic towards Ellie than her game counterpart, but every change they went for just makes her more unlikeable. Having her talk about how easy it was to torture Nora only makes her look like a sociopath. They changed Jesse's character to make him more overtly sanctimonious, but he's still completely in the right, so Ellie's tantrum when he calls her out for not helping Tommy so she can go after Abby only makes her look delusional and petulant. Changing Mel's death to be accidental only makes Ellie look incompetent.

But the part that made this episode terrible, instead of merely mediocre, was this exchange near the end when Ellie questions Jesse about why he came back for her:

Jesse: "The thought did occur if I were out there somewhere, lost and in trouble, you would set the world on fire to save me."
Ellie: *nodding* "I would."

I was so taken aback by this outrageous attempt at whitewashing Ellie's character that I literally shouted at my television "NO YOU WOULDN'T". Did they forget how we just watched Ellie abandon a friend who was in trouble in this same episode? It's such a baffling decision that I could hardly believe that a team of supposedly professional writers would sign off on it.

So yeah....it ain't great.
Yep, that was a really bad oversight on the writing. Btw the same girl who needed to be talked into sticking to the plan in the first place is now a girl who is willing to sacrifice Tommy and Jesse for Abby. And then when she gets back to the theater is like "Eh... I guess I'm cool not killing her now." Their handling of Ellie not up to par. Just write her like the game and stop trying to make her this new overly empathetic personality. It might be too late to change for future seasons now because then it will feel like she just got randomly darker for no reason. They might have a little bit of an excuse for her snapping after watching Jesse die, but I doubt they change it. This is the way they want her in the show, it is what it is, they have no balls.

Maybe if enough people complain they'll acknowledge it like they did about lack of infected from season 1.
 
So he goes against what the game says to try and justify his decisions as the creator of the second game.

Seems like he is attempting to retroactively change the message of the first game.

I don't think its fair to say, after the fact that a cure WOULD be made when the game says it might not work and that's the info Joel is working from
Cuckmann said the same thing about the cure working to Colin when they did a spoilercast just after the original game launched.
 
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Season 2 is a bit of a mess, the problem is Bella Ramsey looks like a child and its not very believable.
My Fiancé is completely obsessed with the show and was watching pt1 last night, its so much better its hard to imagine how far it fell off.

Everything is so rushed and they destroy the whole purpose of the story by making Ellie this really weird mix of revenge and care.

To sum it up we have in TLOU2:
"I'm going to kill every single one of them"

In season 2:
"I didn't mean to hurt your friends"

Fucking bullshit, Ellie is a one girl vicious wrecking machine because that's how us as the player feel after Joel is killed.
Pathetic writing, its the usual therapy writing that has infested the last couple of years of gaming.

Pretty pissed off because if Neil Druckman cant help translate his creation to screen we have no hope of it happening any time soon, the game is so so so much better.
 
wait...what alternate reality have i stepped into about the game? It sits at 93 on metacritic, sold over 10M copies, one of the biggest GOTY winners in videogame history...you would think it was some major flop in every way lmao.
Now you are a bit exaggerate. The story still sucks for me at least.
 
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I am late and catching up slowly (after replaying the games, already the first season was quite meh) and watch epsiode 4. "The pregnancy" episode...

I couldn't believe these scenes. Ok it's an adaptation and not a 1:1 recreation of the game but this is drastic changes of tone.

"I am pregnant", let's have sex, "I am so happy that we'll get a baby".
I was expecting "Let's give up this revenge non sense and live forever happy".

Will slowly watch the others but this looks like a big downfall for me.
 
I mean, in their defence (no pun intended), it's right there.
TaAfw3t.png
Person: The sales tanked because people found out it was woke.
Me: Nope. Sales haven't tanked and here's the data
Person: You're just a ND defender.

Happens all the time. It's funny how I always share accurate sales data for multiple Sony games, but people call you a defender because it's a ND game..
 
There's nothing in the game that even suggests that wouldn't work.

If the game wanted to tell the audience that the cure wasn't possible, then Joel's decision would be the only one that mattered, and not Ellie's.

Joel and Marlene knew what Ellie wanted, and that's why Joel killed Marlene and lied to Ellie. What did Joel say right before he killed Marlene? "You'll just come after her." He wasn't worried about Marlene coming after him, he was worried about Marlene coming after Ellie.

Cuckmann said the same thing about the cure working to Colin when they did a spoilercast just after the original game launched.

Was there absolutely no mention in the first game that the cure might not work?

I have no idea how I thought that was said, maybe fans just said it and it stuck with me. I'll need to play through again.

From AI

In The Last of Us, while Marlene's character in the original game (The Last of Us) and the HBO series both emphasize the potential for a cure, they also acknowledge the uncertainty and potential for failure in the surgical procedure necessary to create it. In the HBO series, the Fireflies' leader, Marlene, states that the surgery is "very risky" and "may not work", further suggesting the possibility of a cure not being achieved. The game also underscores this uncertainty, leaving the audience to wonder about the success rate of the proposed cure.

What is correct??

Edit, I am sure Marlene implies it might not work.
 
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Was there absolutely no mention in the first game that the cure might not work?

I have no idea how I thought that was said, maybe fans just said it and it stuck with me. I'll need to play through again.
I think in the first game you can find written logs or audio logs in which it is mentioned that they have tried to produce a vaccine from other girls besides Ellie and have failed leading to the girls' death. I am not sure if those other girls were mentioned to have been immune to the fungus as well.
 
Was there absolutely no mention in the first game that the cure might not work?

I have no idea how I thought that was said, maybe fans just said it and it stuck with me. I'll need to play through again.

From AI

In The Last of Us, while Marlene's character in the original game (The Last of Us) and the HBO series both emphasize the potential for a cure, they also acknowledge the uncertainty and potential for failure in the surgical procedure necessary to create it. In the HBO series, the Fireflies' leader, Marlene, states that the surgery is "very risky" and "may not work", further suggesting the possibility of a cure not being achieved. The game also underscores this uncertainty, leaving the audience to wonder about the success rate of the proposed cure.

What is correct??

Edit, I am sure Marlene implies it might not work.

The Game

[MARLENE]

"The doctors tell me that the cordyceps, the growth inside her, has somehow mutated. It's why she's immune. Once they remove it, they'll be able to reverse engineer a vaccine. A vaccine"

"Don't waste this gift, Joel."

Hey Anna... It's been awhile since we spoke. I uh... I just gave the go ahead to proceed with the surgery. I really doubt I had much of a choice, asking me was more of a formality. I need you to know that I've kept my promise all these years... despite everything that I was in charge of, I looked after her. I would've done anything for her, and at times...

Here's a chance to save us... all of us. This is what we were after... what you were after. They asked me to kill the smuggler. I'm not about to kill the one man in this facility that might understand the weight of this choice. Maybe he can forgive me. Oh, I miss you, Anna. Your daughter will be with you soon.

[Jerry]
We must find a way to replicate this state under laboratory conditions. We're about to hit a milestone in human history equal to the discovery of penicillin. After years of wandering in circles, we're about to come home, make a difference, and bring the human race back into control of its own destiny. All of our sacrifices and the hundreds of men and women who've bled for this cause, or worse, will not be in vain.

TV Show

[MARLENE]

"Our doctor, he thinks that the cordyceps in Ellie has grown with her since birth. It produces a kind of chemical messenger. It makes normal cordyceps think that she's cordyceps; it's why she's immune. He's going to remove it from her, multiply the cells in a lab, produce those chemical messengers...and then we can give it to everyone. He thinks it could be a cure, Joel. A cure."

So what would she decide, huh? Cause I think she'd want to do what's right, and you know it. It's not too late, even now, even after what you've done. We can still find a way.

These are all the related notes, and there's nothing that suggests a cure was risky or that a cure wasn't possible. They're telling us through the story that they were going to make a cure, but Joel didn't want Marlene to sacrifice Ellie for it.

I think in the first game you can find written logs or audio logs in which it is mentioned that they have tried to produce a vaccine from other girls besides Ellie and have failed leading to the girls' death. I am not sure if those other girls were mentioned to have been immune to the fungus as well.

People always claim there's a note where Jerry talks about experimenting on other immune people, but it doesn't exist.

This is the actual transcript from the recording.

April 28th. Marlene was right. The girl's infection is like nothing I've ever seen. The cause of her immunity is uncertain. As we've seen in all past cases, the antigenic titers of the patient's Cordyceps remain high in both the serum and the cerebrospinal fluid. Blood cultures taken from the patient rapidly grow Cordyceps in fungal-media in the lab... however white blood cell lines, including percentages and absolute-counts, are completely normal. There is no elevation of pro-inflammatory cytokines, and an MRI of the brain shows no evidence of fungal-growth in the limbic regions, which would normally accompany the prodrome of aggression in infected patients.

People have accused them of patching the recording in later versions of the game, but it's exactly the same if you play the original PlayStation 3.

Jerry says what happens to the patients after they're infected. That's it.
 
People always claim there's a note where Jerry talks about experimenting on other immune people, but it doesn't exist.
The Firefly Recorder references tests conducted five years ago. I am not a vaccine expert but it seems the passive tests reference passive immunization tests in real life. Those could require a person with antibodies which means a person immune to the virus.

Edit: I really want to replay the game again. It has been a long while.
 
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I have never finished the game part 1. So most of what I know is from the show. While season 1 had some odd story/director decisions it was good to probably very good. Season2 is also well made, but dropped the ball with everything Ellie related. Unexpectedly dumb lines, and she is just weird as a supposed grown up. Looks too young, which hardly can be changed (much). She is just not Linda Hamilton turning into a warrior, Bella is just small and childlike and could never play Sarah Connor. Often just plain stupid, younger than her battle hardened character already in season 1 showed signs. She kinda stagnated or even regressed. I was actually immediately more interested in Abby's story arc which seems to be a bigger part in the game than I thought and so far I don't understand the hate that character got in the game. The buff women was replaced anyway but so far it even would have made sense that she is an actually roided up women. Her acting and character feels so far just better acted and written than Ellie. Even though it also feels like a rewritten Kathleen with a brother that seems more interesting than this father doctor of Abby, which is a bit cheap, and Ellie is then the third revenge fanatic, but whatever... Different viewpoints for this scenario, and a revenge themed game/season, are interesting and getting more in depth with whoever is probably a good idea. For all I care I'm fine with another main character dying as the result of the season finale but what is then even Abby's story in season3? The cliffhanger is okay I guess, but also not really setting up many unknowns.
 
Just did some more reading on the viewership plummet. It's actually worse than I thought.

A two year wait just to see Abby's perspective? Is the average viewer even going to care to watch the character that killed Pedro for an entire season? Seems to me they fucked up by not shooting 10 episodes and switched perspectives back and forth during Season 2.
I hadn't thought of this, but this seems like the actual way they should have done this as a TV show. I think it's a hard sell to ask the audience back for a third season when they already dislike Abby for killing Pedro. A video game is one thing. TV being a different medium makes this a harder ask.

On a side note my wife, who knows nothing of the games, watched videos of Abby in the theater to compare to the show and her first response was "she's jacked. That's not very realistic." I chuckled.
 
Apparently the Part 2 remastered SkU has sold +2 million copies during the show run. And that's without counting the other SkU available. And of course Part 1 would have seen a boost as well.

That's some going.

 
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The Firefly Recorder references tests conducted five years ago. I am not a vaccine expert but it seems the passive tests reference passive immunization tests in real life. Those could require a person with antibodies which means a person immune to the virus.

Edit: I really want to replay the game again. It has been a long while.

Jerry said her infection is something like they have never seen before, and he describes all past cases in the same way. What we find out in the University is that the cordyceps can infect animals (in this case, monkeys), but the cordyceps react differently.
 
Apparently the Part 2 remastered SkU has sold +2 million copies during the show run. And that's without counting the other SkU available. And of course Part 1 would have seen a boost as well.

That's some going.

We love a flop game.
 
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