Support NeoGAF

[spookyfish]

She's too stronk to write poems or even smile. They are going into uncharted territories with this character, very deep stuff.

Would you say the territory is

>puts sunglasses on<

Uncharted?

 

[Panajev2001a]

a woman isn't going to hunt down and fight a bunch of trained killers. It takes male characteristics to carry out something like this

? How do we even base this on?

 

[Sethbacca]

? How do we even base this on?

This is the way it's happened for 100 years, this is the way it needs to happen for the next 100 years. Change is forbidden?

At least I'm assuming that's the logic.

 

[Gaiff]

? How do we even base this on?

Seriously? How do we base that men are much better suited for combat and conflict than women?

This is the way it's happened for 100 years, this is the way it needs to happen for the next 100 years. Change is forbidden?

At least I'm assuming that's the logic.

This doesn't even make sense.

 

[Lokaum D+]

Seriously? How do we base that men are much better suited for combat and conflict than women?

some ppl here are living on Marvel Dreamland, do not even waste your time

 

[DAHGAMING]

My problem isn't just the unlikable protagonist. My problem is everything about this seems like it's just Ghost of Tushima again. This is my issue with Sony this gen.

I didn't want to play God of War 2018 again.
I didn't want to play Horizon Zero Dawn again (and literally again with the remaster)
I didn't want to play spider-man again.
I didn't want to play death stranding again.
And I don't want to play ghost of Tsushima again.

To me it's acceptable to play games that are extremely similar to the previous entry if they're on the same platform. But generational leaps in power should come with generational leaps in game design and mechanics.

It seems the Xbox Series S with a year of gamepass might be just what you need, welcome to the family brother .

 

[viveks86]

This is the way it's happened for 100 years, this is the way it needs to happen for the next 100 years. Change is forbidden?

At least I'm assuming that's the logic.

? How do we even base this on?

He is right about that. The rules for women have been different since early human civilization. Was just learning about social structures yesterday in ancient Mesopotamia and it's the same fucking thing:

"A man can choose to kill his newborn child if he doesn't want it by abandoning it in the woods and letting it starve to death or eaten by animals, without anyone's consent. But a woman who does that without the man's approval should be impaled to death and never buried, because it's equivalent to treason against the King, the worst possible punishment."

Just extend that bias to every topic under the Sun. This unequal treatment has been going on for so damn long (at least 6000 years) across most of the world that women naturally behave differently when it comes to physical violence and revenge, amongst many other things. I'm sure there is a genetic component too as with humans, physical territorial dominance and aggression (driven by testosterone) is a trait exclusive to males, which is the primary motivator for violence. Given any options, women would indeed choose methods that give them the upper hand and physical superiority is not one of them.

Now give them an impenetrable shield, a machine gun and a few generations of social deprogramming and perhaps all bets are off!

 

[Tajaz2426]

? How do we even base this on?

I've been deployed multiple times to Iraq and Afghanistan since 01, then in between to the Horn of Africa on 2 dets. First hand knowledge is what we can base that on.

Women cannot carry a wounded male out of a hot zone, women cannot handle watching your friend become mist and parts of them landing on you. Cannot handle knowing you're going through 25-30 doors a day in Ramadi as an example, knowing men are waiting with PKGs, IEDs, grenades, etc. Men are in danger in combat with females because they will put the female above themselves and their Marines or soldiers to save said female.

Combat isn't some movie, people have their heads removed from rounds, RPGs, you have to listen to them crying for their mothers as they take their last breaths on earth in countries that hate you. Then you get to write to their families about their heroics and what happened that got their child killed and what they seen when their hearts stopped.

There is a physical side and a mental which a woman is not suited for. It will get men killed in combat.

 

[CentralScrutinizer]

It seems the Xbox Series S with a year of gamepass might be just what you need, welcome to the family brother .

I have a PC and a Switch 2 as well. I'm good....

I used to love my Xbox and its ecosystem but I sold it when they started putting games on PS5 and I got a PC. Now I just watch Xbox in disgust from a distance.

 

[Zacfoldor]

I've been deployed multiple times to Iraq and Afghanistan since 01, then in between to the Horn of Africa on 2 dets. First hand knowledge is what we can base that on.

Women cannot carry a wounded male out of a hot zone, women cannot handle watching your friend become mist and parts of them landing on you. Cannot handle knowing you're going through 25-30 doors a day in Ramadi as an example, knowing men are waiting with PKGs, IEDs, grenades, etc. Men are in danger in combat with females because they will put the female above themselves and their Marines or soldiers to save said female.

Combat isn't some movie, people have their heads removed from rounds, RPGs, you have to listen to them crying for their mothers as they take their last breaths on earth in countries that hate you. Then you get to write to their families about their heroics and what happened that got their child killed and what they seen when their hearts stopped.

There is a physical side and a mental which a woman is not suited for. It will get men killed in combat.

I respect your service and thank you for your service.

I'm not here to contradict you. I will say in addition to what you have said is that we know it is unrealistic but we just want to have fun with a pretend game, we know it isn't real. Kill Bill isn't real either but I thought it was a pretty decent movie. That said, I have my own issues with this game so it will be a wait and see for sure.

 

[Tajaz2426]

I respect your service and thank you for your service.

I'm not here to contradict you. I will say in addition to what you have said is that we know it is unrealistic but we just want to have fun with a pretend game, we know it isn't real. Kill Bill isn't real either but I thought it was a pretty decent movie. That said, I have my own issues with this game so it will be a wait and see for sure.

Good dang movie. I don't and have never had a problem with women in movies. What bothers me today is the writing for them doesn't allow them to have real problems to over come, they start out better and stronger than the Hulk.

I have been fascinated by the heroes journey since I was young man and the writing for the ladies today is horrid, as there is no journey, just a badass.

Gymwolf and I were discussing Alien earlier and he was absolutely correct talking about her character and how she was written. Kill Bill, also.

My other issues is just the crazies that believe the movies and games are reality.

Thank you for the reply.

 

[BbMajor7th]

It's a revenge story. We've seen these before. It's not new and they've existed for literally 1000s of years. There's nothing new about the character's narrative design. We've had many.....

- Ezio in Assassin's Creed 2
- Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance (Revenge is literally in the title )
- Kratos in the first 3 GOW games (Maybe the best revenge story I've ever played in gaming history)


And all of these were men too. So I'm confused as to why it's an issue now......

You're proving my point - this is trite and overdone and combined with a the kind of Strong Female Character tropes that can only be written by men who in their eagerness to portray women without discrimination, fail to portray them with personalities (see Aloy as another example) succeed in creating forgettable experiences.

If you're not bored, all power to you, but other people are and you being angry about that is weird… no-one's stopping you playing it. Getting bent out of shape at other people for feeling differently is not good for anyone.

 

[Venom Snake]

I like videogames a lot, I do not read every single piece of information out there, so I am not aware if the dev is pushing that info on a regular basis. But what draw my attention is that you used the word hate, which is an strong emotional reaction to something trivial as a game. I am not trying to convince you to buy the game or accept the character, nor I said you're misogynist. It's the emotional reactions you people have that are so disconcerting. We men should react logically not emotionally, but these newer generations are all emotional men and women.

Reading this reminds me of a small Chinese restaurant i used to eat at regularly as a high school student. It was basically a small shack in a shitty part of town, but the food was excellent, so i didn't care. It didn't took even the slightest amount of willpower to filter out the mess around me and focus on what was important.

When it comes to games, social media often becomes this background filth, and if your intention is to demean the game itself, you focus on that.
In a world of culture wars and reactionary behavior, a retarded, forced narrative will go around the world twice before sensible, dow-to-earth criticism goes a mile.

Being emotional over every little thing makes people feel aligned with their beliefs, while turning a blind eye to the underlying personal issues that cause it.
It would be better for them to start playing these games instead of constantly complaining about them.

 

[EDMIX]

Who gives a shit about the actress or Uma Thurman? They're both voicing words written by people who wrote the script for the characters they're playing and taking acting directions from directors.

There's a massive difference between Dean Cain and Christopher Reeve, but they both played Superman just fine.

Well not necessarily.

You guys know me out of everyone on here regarding this forum that I'd actually don't care too much about something being woke or not in regards to my purchase. But shit even I'm saying you cannot really separate those ideas 100% completely the reality is sometimes someone's characteristic or who you perceive them to be as a person can help that character be perceived better. This means if someone does not perceive that actress as tough it's possible this will affect how they view that performance.

So yes the actor Uma Thurman very much can affect how someone views her role based on the outward's perception of her character.

It's why a lot of us like Samuel L Jackson in very specific roles he already embodies this type of tough guy no-nonsense type of idea that helps the role.


So I'm not saying I'm going to avoid the game because of any of this, I'm one of those that takes the game as what it is and accepts what they're creating, That does not mean every person is viewing the game in that type of Lens

It means whether we like it or not someone dislikes the actor and because of this it is difficult for them to care about the character if they're continuously applying their feelings of the actor to the character...


Like we know Danny Trejo to be a tough guy, you put him in any video game of course his character is going to be very specific towards a game but it's gonna be difficult for us to separate that idea of who he is from the character especially if they compliment each other

but please understand that also could go the other way...

Thank god. There's been an incredible lack of Strong Female Protagonists in games, film, and TV shows lately.

Way to shatter that glass ceiling Sucker Punch!

lol to be fair, we don't have this demographic in much Samurai type games. I just wish they went the full Lady Snow Blood route, allow it to be as violent as they can be, taking off heads, limbs and followed Naughty Dog's direction they took with the Last Of Us 2 in terms of violence.

Make it a hard M.

That was one of my biggest criticisms with the first Ghost 1, it seemed like they were trying to tell a story of one of the most violent times in Japanese History while trying to avoid a lot of the most violent aspects and when you have a release like the last of us 2 and then a month or 2 later you have a release like Ghost 1 you see this massive difference in tone and clearly it's not as if Sony is shy about making a violent game if anything there are the ones that usually pushed the boundaries of a lot of Wild shit we see in games so I don't even know sucker punch has the excuse that Sony would be against it.

It felt like Sucker Punch was making a Saturday morning cartoon about that conflict. So...can they even be trusted to tell a "Lady Snow Blood" type story? at this point....probably not. Give that shit to Naughty Dog and limbs coming off, heads getting taken off, the most wild shit humanity has to offer would be in that game to fully sell that idea.

 

[Loomy]

So yes the actor Uma Thurman very much can affect how someone views her role based on the outward's perception of her character.

Like we know Danny Trejo to be a tough guy, you put him in any video game of course his character is going to be very specific towards a game but it's gonna be difficult for us to separate that idea of who he is from the character especially if they compliment each other

Fair enough. I think I can see how someone may look at it from that perspective.

 

[Fake]

Marvel movies did a lot of damage in some individuals.

Just like in Avengers End Game when men wait team women to hit Thanos even when they could men and women fight together, side by side at the same time to save the world as DR. Strange said in the previous movie that we have 'one shot, don't waste it' and the last possibility of save the galaxy.

 

[Eevee86]

In Metroid, Samus has some super suit, no? That can explain everything, really.

This is similar to spider-man villains, half of them are regular people with power suits.

Even without it shes genetically modified with Warrior Chozo DNA so shes still incredibly dangerous.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

So she's a boss bitch and that Jin guy is a little puss

She is a strong and independent woman, no man will boss her around.

 

[Danteyke223]

He will literally only recommend stuff like this if it's "safe" to do so

 

[Signalis]

I heard that the physical comes with a steelbook case and when you open it, it smells like Erika Ishii's vagina

 

[Senua]

? How do we even base this on?

 

[BbMajor7th]

That's... an interesting perspective. This got me thinking quite a bit. You are making this appeal on GAF, where you are not the little guy. You represent the majority opinion and the mods here (at least the ones who voice their thoughts or ban people) generally seem to be aligned with your perspective. I don't mean that as a complaint or an insult. But just a matter of fact. Everyone has a philosophical and ideological leaning. And no one can truly be neutral in this political climate.

So when you hear an opposing point of view from the "defense squad", it isn't coming from corporate backed shills (as far as I know). And since I'm being (intentionally or otherwise) grouped into this "defense squad", I think I can at least speak for myself. It is not easy to be the minority dissenting voice. I am working against my human instinct to just stay silent and watch things unfold... or lash out. I actually went quiet on GAF for almost a decade for this reason. Way too much hostility and judgment to be worth investing any time on. All the friends I had made here over the years had vanished. At the end, you often get nothing in return. No sense of community because everyone disagrees with you and has judged or prematurely dismissed your viewpoint. It often becomes a circle jerk, where the same group of people like and support each other's posts. There was no sense that anyone wants to reach across the aisle. So then, what is even the point saying anything at all? But then, I had a light bulb moment as I gained confidence in my ability to express and a controversial game called Intergalactic was announced. I tried again, with as much respect and good faith as I possibly can. And you know what? It's been a rewarding experience ever since. I actually feel like I'm building longer term camaraderie with people who may fundamentally disagree with me. Out of just pure love and respect.

But I can empathize with the challenge this poses on the "defense squad" psyche. We have to constantly feel like we would get drowned out by the majority. As a result, we either get too meek and give up or get too aggressive and over-compensate, with the risk of getting banned. As much as I regret the name calling, in all our minds we are "punching up" too. Just like you are punching up to the corporations, we are punching up to you. Of course there are people who will never learn and keep being nasty to one another. But perhaps an attempt to understand this from the opposing viewpoint would lead to less hostility and vicious cycles of mutual disrespect.

Appreciate the thoughtful response and the time taken to write it. At the end of the day, nobody is obliged to buy anything made by anyone - it's a free market and a free society. Every product that hits the market is ours to buy or ignore as we see fit. That's normal and healthy. People might even signal their disinterest directly to the company making the product. That's also a good thing - it's why companies are forever asking you to fill out surveys, they care about what consumers want. That being the case, this is a normal healthy thread of people expressing disinterest in a product, articulating why and sharing their thoughts as consumers. At base, exercising a fundamental right without which the market might not even function.

Except for a handful of posters, who are so incensed and irritated by people exercising this fundamental right, that they feel the need to demean, belittle and insult them. Why? No idea! Most of them seem to like the product, the only signals they need to send back to the market are positive ones: go wish-list, pre-order, like the video, drop a glowing comment. The free market is a democracy and functions much the same: candidates must make offers which genuinely entice voters; companies must make products which genuinely entice consumers. The idea that voters or consumers should go around blaming one another for not being properly enticed is... well, it's backward. You punch up at the company or the candidate who didn't do enough to win over consumers or voters - otherwise, it's like blaming a sporting failure on the fans that were cheering for the other team.

Ask yourself sincerely who's being productive here: the consumer saying to the company 'I'm not buying your product and here's why' or the consumer saying to other consumers 'the product is actually good and you're all weird for not wanting it'. One of these people is interacting with the foundational feedback loop on which the free market is built and sending constructive signals back to the industry. The other is frustrating and undermining that loop, attacking the source of the signals and essentially arguing that companies should ignore the market. As a result we've countless companies double down on bad ideas despite clear and overwhelming feedback from the market and countless studios shut their doors or lay-off their staff. It's honestly bizarre...

 

[mckmas8808]

You're proving my point - this is trite and overdone and combined with a the kind of Strong Female Character tropes that can only be written by men who in their eagerness to portray women without discrimination, fail to portray them with personalities (see Aloy as another example) succeed in creating forgettable experiences.

If you're not bored, all power to you, but other people are and you being angry about that is weird… no-one's stopping you playing it. Getting bent out of shape at other people for feeling differently is not good for anyone.

I'm not getting bent out of shape due to yall's opinions on these characters. I'm getting upset and you guys, being mad at us for still liking these characters and the games that they are in.

I also get upset that every time a new thread is created about an update on these games these "same people" start to shit up the thread with the same talking points after they've already stated that they don't like the character or the game. So, why keep telling us how much you don't like the same character month after month after month?

 

[Sethbacca]

I'm not getting bent out of shape due to yall's opinions on these characters. I'm getting upset and you guys, being mad at us for still liking these characters and the games that they are in.

I also get upset that every time a new thread is created about an update on these games these "same people" start to shit up the thread with the same talking points after they've already stated that they don't like the character or the game. So, why keep telling us how much you don't like the same character month after month after month?

Seriously, this part right here. I can tell you what 80% of comments are going to be in any given thread before even clicking on them. Got my anti woke bingo card ready to go on every opening, boom blue hair, boom the word "woke", boom the word "Cuckman" or some other reference to Naughty Dog or Last of Us 2, boom some dude thinking he could take on an army by himself when he can barely climb a flight of stairs but a woman doing it is a bridge too far, and some other weird conspiracy theory about how big money is involved in some kind of culture war rather than simply trying to capitalize on market sentiment. That's a good BINGO every time.

Makes me feel like I'm the one that's crazy by not partaking in this nonsense. They're the exact mirror of the people they hate. It would be one thing if it felt in any way organic, but you can always tell what the sentiment in here is going to be by simply viewing certain news feeds, and it's clear 90% of it is just dudes getting their marching orders.

 

[mckmas8808]

Reading this reminds me of a small Chinese restaurant i used to eat at regularly as a high school student. It was basically a small shack in a shitty part of town, but the food was excellent, so i didn't care. It didn't took even the slightest amount of willpower to filter out the mess around me and focus on what was important.

When it comes to games, social media often becomes this background filth, and if your intention is to demean the game itself, you focus on that.
In a world of culture wars and reactionary behavior, a retarded, forced narrative will go around the world twice before sensible, dow-to-earth criticism goes a mile.

Being emotional over every little thing makes people feel aligned with their beliefs, while turning a blind eye to the underlying personal issues that cause it.
It would be better for them to start playing these games instead of constantly complaining about them.

This is a really thoughtful comment and I appreciate this perspective alot. It perfectly explains today's society and threads like this.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

I'm not getting bent out of shape due to yall's opinions on these characters. I'm getting upset and you guys, being mad at us for still liking these characters and the games that they are in.

I also get upset that every time a new thread is created about an update on these games these "same people" start to shit up the thread with the same talking points after they've already stated that they don't like the character or the game. So, why keep telling us how much you don't like the same character month after month after month?

Speaking for myself, I'm just shitposting for the lulz. I still plan to buy the game day 1.
Would I prefer a different voice actor, sure, but as long as the in game character isn't like her in real life, I don't actually think the game is woke.
I'd rather these mentally ill people not work on anything I enjoy and seek help.

 

[mckmas8808]

Speaking for myself, I'm just shitposting for the lulz. I still plan to buy the game day 1.
Would I prefer a different voice actor, sure, but as long as the in game character isn't like her in real life, I don't actually think the game is woke.
I'd rather these mentally ill people not work on anything I enjoy and seek help.

I just wish they'd stop talking on damn social media and playing into the hate they get. A lot of them are so socially stupid that they don't understand that they are making matters worse. Clearly they are good at their actual job acting in the games, but their presence online can be a PR nightmare.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

I just wish they'd stop talking on damn social media and playing into the hate they get. A lot of them are so socially stupid that they don't understand that they are making matters worse. Clearly they are good at their actual job acting in the games, but their presence online can be a PR nightmare.

Yea, she's been rather obnoxious. Not too terrible. But I refused to play South of Midnight over them being racist, and I planned to at least get a month of gamepass for it. They do hurt sales with their BS. There are so many games coming out and so many in our backlogs, it's really easy to just be like "fuck you guys, i'm out".

 

[viveks86]

Appreciate the thoughtful response and the time taken to write it. At the end of the day, nobody is obliged to buy anything made by anyone - it's a free market and a free society. Every product that hits the market is ours to buy or ignore as we see fit. That's normal and healthy. People might even signal their disinterest directly to the company making the product. That's also a good thing - it's why companies are forever asking you to fill out surveys, they care about what consumers want. That being the case, this is a normal healthy thread of people expressing disinterest in a product, articulating why and sharing their thoughts as consumers. At base, exercising a fundamental right without which the market might not even function.

Except for a handful of posters, who are so incensed and irritated by people exercising this fundamental right, that they feel the need to demean, belittle and insult them. Why? No idea! Most of them seem to like the product, the only signals they need to send back to the market are positive ones: go wish-list, pre-order, like the video, drop a glowing comment. The free market is a democracy and functions much the same: candidates must make offers which genuinely entice voters; companies must make products which genuinely entice consumers. The idea that voters or consumers should go around blaming one another for not being properly enticed is... well, it's backward. You punch up at the company or the candidate who didn't do enough to win over consumers or voters - otherwise, it's like blaming a sporting failure on the fans that were cheering for the other team.

Ask yourself sincerely who's being productive here: the consumer saying to the company 'I'm not buying your product and here's why' or the consumer saying to other consumers 'the product is actually good and you're all weird for not wanting it'. One of these people is interacting with the foundational feedback loop on which the free market is built and sending constructive signals back to the industry. The other is frustrating and undermining that loop, attacking the source of the signals and essentially arguing that companies should ignore the market. As a result we've countless companies double down on bad ideas despite clear and overwhelming feedback from the market and countless studios shut their doors or lay-off their staff. It's honestly bizarre...

I think you are conflating two independent concepts. Free market capitalism and the free market of ideas. We are in agreement on free market capitalism. You buy what you want to buy, vote with your wallet and no one should get in your way. I think we can both agree that no one is getting in your way to participate in free market capitalism at the moment. Unless someone is twisting your arm (physically or metaphorically) to buy this, it's not happening. Even insulting you won't change your mind, right? Do as you wish as that's your prerogative.

But the free market of ideas fundamentally doesn't work the way you are envisioning it. NeoGAF is not just a feedback loop for corporations. It's a place where ideas are freely exchanged. This is not even a debate if the game is good or not or if you should buy it or not. The game isn't even out yet and none of us have played it. What value would that debate even have at the moment? This is a debate about the ideas in the game. A female action protagonist. One who is different from her predecessor in the franchise. One that is being perceived differently due to the choice of making her female. Is that a creative choice worth preserving or not? Should developers make more female-centric games or not? Do males find that interesting or not? Should males find that interesting or not? Is a female defying laws of physics and nature in a videogame a good idea or not? Does that break immersion or not? Should that break immersion or not? Do games based on revenge as a theme still have potential or not?... and so on. Some are against these ideas and some are for these ideas. And like all politically charged topics, things invariably get too hot and discussions devolve into judgments and name-calling. Those will get moderated as needed. One person, as far as I know, has already been banned for that. Not because his take on the ideas are so bad that they shouldn't even get the chance to be expressed, but because forum etiquette wasn't being followed. The moment one starts talking about the ideas less and about the users and the community more, they are breaking forum etiquette. Ad hominem attacks add no value and derail civil discussion. So he got banned and would hopefully learn from it and do better.

But what you are expecting is a protective bubble, an echo chamber, where only your ideas are freely expressed and should not be undermined. That's not how the free market of ideas work. Expect to be challenged. Treat us as equals who have an opposing viewpoint. In reality, there is no punching up or punching down. Only punching sideways. We aren't here to defend a game that isn't even out. We are here to defend the idea that a game like this should even be made. And what about the ones that are just here to insult and antagonize? You are free not to engage with them. Use the forum tools, ignore and/or report to moderators as you see fit.

Your opinion has the right to exist here. And there is no shortage of it too. There isn't a single thread about this game that has an overall positive vibe, so if that's the sentiment that needs to go to the corporations, that's already happening. If your objective is "feedback to the corporations", this is a no-contest. You have already won. But that's not what GAF is truly about.

All I'm asking for you to see is that I (i.e the "defense squad") have the same rights as you. Try to steel-man my viewpoint and see if you still disagree. If you do, then by all means express it. You can't claim the right to vote as a means to avoid political debate. Both are important, independent and should be protected.

 

[mckmas8808]

Yea, she's been rather obnoxious. Not too terrible. But I refused to play South of Midnight over them being racist, and I planned to at least get a month of gamepass for it. They do hurt sales with their BS. There are so many games coming out and so many in our backlogs, it's really easy to just be like "fuck you guys, i'm out".

The bolded is the thing many of these people don't understand. THIS is what ends up hurting game sells. They sometimes give people a reason to Nope Out.

 

[simpatico]

OMG what an absolute boss babe! I bet she doesn't take ANY shit from men. Scum bags. Can't wait to dispense feminine justice to these brutes.

*FTMs will not be harmed by her blade. they will be protected by her at all costs. They probably get enough shit from the cis-men. Smh. Do better ancient Japanese cis-men.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

The bolded is the thing many of these people don't understand. THIS is what ends up hurting game sells. They sometimes give people a reason to Nope Out.

I noped out of south of midnight and avowed over their racism on social media. Shit that would get me fired at work, they proclaim it to the world and act like being a piece is shit is a badge of honor.

 

[Markio128]

Fuck me, it's just a game.

We all know the truth of the matter and why everyone is trying so hard to argue that a female in a game can't be a bad ass.

I don't remember these kind of comments when Lara Croft or Eve were taking out armies of enemies single handed. And that's because they had big tits. Simple as that.

Give it a rest with all the woke, unrealistic bullshit. She just doesn't have big tits and that's why you're unhappy.

 

[DavidGzz]

Fuck me, it's just a game.

We all know the truth of the matter and why everyone is trying so hard to argue that a female in a game can't be a bad ass.

I don't remember these kind of comments when Lara Croft or Eve were taking out armies of enemies single handed. And that's because they had big tits. Simple as that.

Give it a rest with all the woke, unrealistic bullshit. She just doesn't have big tits and that's why you're unhappy.

It's only recently where these old gamers became ultra sensitive to stronk females. Lara Croft was fine cause she has huge tits. Right guys? Any reasonable gamer suspends disbelief as soon as they turn on their PC or console game. I mean even Kingdom Come Deliverance two has a blacksmith's son being able to kill a dozen warriors who have him surrounded and it's as "realistic" as action games get.

 

[Kagoshima_Luke]

Would have been fascinating if they had depicted her like an actual woman of this time period. What's her perspective in a male-dominated, feudal Japanese society? How does she fight/kill in a world where 50% of the population is physically stronger than her? Does she use her wits? A new type of fighting style or weapon? Does she have allies that are crucial in her success?

No. She's just a girl boss.

 

[DavidGzz]

Would have been fascinating if they had depicted her like an actual woman of this time period. What's her perspective in a male-dominated, feudal Japanese society? How does she fight/kill in a world where 50% of the population is physically stronger than her? Does she use her wits? A new type of fighting style or weapon? Does she have allies that are crucial in her success?

No. She's just a girl boss.

Where's muh realism in muh games! Reeeeee!

 

[Windom Earle]

He already knows that, but he won't acknowledge it. Notice how he's posting in the same style as ecosse_011172 and Doom85.

This guy has a few alts, it is very obvious.

 

[miller152]

Would have been fascinating if they had depicted her like an actual woman of this time period. What's her perspective in a male-dominated, feudal Japanese society? How does she fight/kill in a world where 50% of the population is physically stronger than her? Does she use her wits? A new type of fighting style or weapon? Does she have allies that are crucial in her success?

No. She's just a girl boss.

A real shame, innit? They could have created whole new gameplay systems to make Yotei a totally unique experience.

But we all know what would happen. She has to able to do everything Jin was able to do and more, because otherwise the media would have a field day.

"Oh, I'm sorry, why isn't this 5' 2" female with no formal combat education as good in melee combat as the battle-hardened samurai? Could it be that because she is a woman? How dare you Sucker Punch, imagine the tens of millions of women around the world looking forward to playing this game, you know there are barely any games with a strong female protagonist, what sort of an example are you giving to young women by making it more difficult to clear out a bandit-filled settlement just because the player character is half the size of every enemy there? Shame on Sucker Punch and Sony!"

 

[Beretta]

It's insane how angry some fellas get over a female in a game and that "woke" gets so easily tossed around. We had to go years and years playing as mostly male characters, it's not going to kill you to play as a female or, you know, just don't play it at all.


It's just a game. It doesn't have to be realistic. It's just the vision of a bunch of people. It's not like 99% of video games are suddenly starring women.

 

[Chan]

It's not like 99% of video games are suddenly starring women.

Just read a post on Reddit where Silksong and Chronos were thrown into the woke basket. Silksong for having replaced a male MC with a female MC and Chronos for.... well, it's a woman I guess. This whole thing has reached the craziness of the woke mob a few years ago. I wonder when people will just enjoy videogame again.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

Just read a post on Reddit where Silksong and Chronos were thrown into the woke basket. Silksong for having replaced a male MC with a female MC and Chronos for.... well, it's a woman I guess. This whole thing has reached the craziness of the woke mob a few years ago. I wonder when people will just enjoy videogame again.

Things will go back to normal when people who don't play games would stop making games.

 

[captainnapalm]

I'm sure there's an audience for 'woman as bad-ass killing machine' games starring narcissistic morons, but that's not me.

 

[Cakeboxer]

Just read a post on Reddit where Silksong and Chronos were thrown into the woke basket. Silksong for having replaced a male MC with a female MC and Chronos for.... well, it's a woman I guess. This whole thing has reached the craziness of the woke mob a few years ago. I wonder when people will just enjoy videogame again.

That's not going to change anytime soon. For years, the film and gaming industries have been flooding people with content that feels forced and artificial in the name of being "woke." Now we're at a point where anything that isn't white, straight, and male automatically gets labeled as woke. It's going to be very hard to get that out of people's heads again. Back in the day, nobody called things like Tomb Raider, Kill Bill, Alien, Underworld, Resident Evil, Charlie's Angels, Malcolm X, The Matrix, Blade, or Brokeback Mountain "woke", because they were done really well, and it also wasn't so overdone in terms of sheer quantity.

 

[captainnapalm]

That's not going to change anytime soon. For years, the film and gaming industries have been flooding people with content that feels forced and artificial in the name of being "woke." Now we're at a point where anything that isn't white, straight, and male automatically gets labeled as woke. It's going to be very hard to get that out of people's heads again. Back in the day, nobody called things like Tomb Raider, Kill Bill, Alien, Underworld, Resident Evil, Charlie's Angels, Malcolm X, The Matrix, Blade, or Brokeback Mountain "woke", because they were done really well, and it also wasn't so overdone in terms of sheer quantity.

Yup - the well has been poisoned. It's a totally self-inflicted wound. I absolutely side-eye western studios now when it comes to this stuff - and they absolutely deserve it.

 

[Seomel]

Can't wait for this to start playing it and ignore internet calling it some woke feminist propaganda meanwhile.

 

[calico]

We had to go years and years playing as mostly male characters

For fairly obvious commercial reasons.

it's not going to kill you to play as a female

If this is the standard to be applied -it's not a problem so long as it doesn't kill you- then there was no problem with your having to play mostly male characters.

or, you know, just don't play it at all.

This option was also available before. The issue is a chunk of the male audience often opts for that 'just don't play it' option, and does not get replaced by female audience because females (as a group) are just inherently less inclined toward combat-oriented media. Then the company acts astonished and wonders where their male audience has gone and why the imaginary female audience hasn't materialised to replace them, as though this wasn't the most likely outcome.

 

[TheKratos]

I do not think it has anything to do with her being a woman, but not being a noble or a Samurai. I think we are reaching for the culture wars on this one. A male or female chat after with that past would be similar and we would accept a guy having Atsu's characteristics… come on…

Sure sure, it's all just a coincidence that they select a female protagonist for this "feral world" they deliberately created.

 

[BbMajor7th]

I think you are conflating two independent concepts. Free market capitalism and the free market of ideas. We are in agreement on free market capitalism. You buy what you want to buy, vote with your wallet and no one should get in your way. I think we can both agree that no one is getting in your way to participate in free market capitalism at the moment. Unless someone is twisting your arm (physically or metaphorically) to buy this, it's not happening. Even insulting you won't change your mind, right? Do as you wish as that's your prerogative.

But the free market of ideas fundamentally doesn't work the way you are envisioning it. NeoGAF is not just a feedback loop for corporations. It's a place where ideas are freely exchanged. This is not even a debate if the game is good or not or if you should buy it or not. The game isn't even out yet and none of us have played it. What value would that debate even have at the moment? This is a debate about the ideas in the game. A female action protagonist. One who is different from her predecessor in the franchise. One that is being perceived differently due to the choice of making her female. Is that a creative choice worth preserving or not? Should developers make more female-centric games or not? Do males find that interesting or not? Should males find that interesting or not? Is a female defying laws of physics and nature in a videogame a good idea or not? Does that break immersion or not? Should that break immersion or not? Do games based on revenge as a theme still have potential or not?... and so on. Some are against these ideas and some are for these ideas. And like all politically charged topics, things invariably get too hot and discussions devolve into judgments and name-calling. Those will get moderated as needed. One person, as far as I know, has already been banned for that. Not because his take on the ideas are so bad that they shouldn't even get the chance to be expressed, but because forum etiquette wasn't being followed. The moment one starts talking about the ideas less and about the users and the community more, they are breaking forum etiquette. Ad hominem attacks add no value and derail civil discussion. So he got banned and would hopefully learn from it and do better.

But what you are expecting is a protective bubble, an echo chamber, where only your ideas are freely expressed and should not be undermined. That's not how the free market of ideas work. Expect to be challenged. Treat us as equals who have an opposing viewpoint. In reality, there is no punching up or punching down. Only punching sideways. We aren't here to defend a game that isn't even out. We are here to defend the idea that a game like this should even be made. And what about the ones that are just here to insult and antagonize? You are free not to engage with them. Use the forum tools, ignore and/or report to moderators as you see fit.

Your opinion has the right to exist here. And there is no shortage of it too. There isn't a single thread about this game that has an overall positive vibe, so if that's the sentiment that needs to go to the corporations, that's already happening. If your objective is "feedback to the corporations", this is a no-contest. You have already won. But that's not what GAF is truly about.

All I'm asking for you to see is that I (i.e the "defense squad") have the same rights as you. Try to steel-man my viewpoint and see if you still disagree. If you do, then by all means express it. You can't claim the right to vote as a means to avoid political debate. Both are important, independent and should be protected.

I'm not asking for a protective bubble or an echo chamber - you're strawmanning (also bad forum etiquette) - I'm simply pointing out that one side is criticising the product and its creators, the other side is criticising the criticisers. One side is articulating their concerns and submitting them to the arena of debate, the other is insulting them for doing so. The latter side is performing as the intellectual superiors whilst being demonstrably the intellectual lessers attempting to shut down discussion or turn it into a slagging match. Can you not see that disparity?

 

[BbMajor7th]

I'm not getting bent out of shape due to yall's opinions on these characters. I'm getting upset and you guys, being mad at us for still liking these characters and the games that they are in.

I also get upset that every time a new thread is created about an update on these games these "same people" start to shit up the thread with the same talking points after they've already stated that they don't like the character or the game. So, why keep telling us how much you don't like the same character month after month after month?

Because people are using this as a space to push back against an industry trend they dislike. It's a form of protest and protesters don't generally go out, do one demonstration and then call it a day. When people are campaigning against something they will tend to reiterate their points ad nauseum.

 

[BattleScar]

Go outside please.
Get a life.