bitbydeath
Gold Member
It would cost money to port it to Xbox SDK and they would not gain any additional money/sales in doing so.
There is no incentive even for MS's own studios.
WC/Jez: Microsoft's ambitious new Xbox: Your entire Xbox console library, the full power of Windows PC gaming, and no multiplayer paywall
- Thread starter RetroGamingUK
- Start date
There is no incentive even for MS's own studios.
Hari Seldon
Member
I wonder what is going to happen to the games that are console only but not PC. Like NHL or CFB. Is EA now just going to make these PS6 exclusive or will they be forced to finally make PC versions so it runs on Magnus.
If they want to do Xbox versions they have no choice but to do a pc version. Also who knows about those games they might not be around after getting acquired by Saudi Arabia.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Project Amethyst provides the core technologies of RDNA 5. It's more like Sony AND AMD's technology this time around. Perhaps more similar to PS3 Cell joint venture than PS4/PS5 development collaboration. My guess is Sony will be paying significantly less licensing costs on a per chip basis for PS6 while Microsoft will be subjected to much higher fees.
Proelite
Member
By SOC do you mean the bridged die or the CPU+NPU portion.
Also the cpu configuration looks to be similar to the one in Medusa Halo Mini. Why aren't they working with AMD to make the cpu side used in more things such as desktops.
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foamdino
Member
SOC == cpu cores, NPU cores, bridge dies and gpu chiplet as a package. Each individual part is just normal AMD technology, the actual layout, selection of number of Zen6 cores number of rdna5 components, etc is custom for MS. So the lego bricks are all just normal bricks, how they're assembled into a SOC is bespoke for MS.
DavidGzz
Member
Good question. Also, games that are PC only in EA, will they work easily? If it plays console only games like the ones you mentioned and GTA 6, and also EA games that are PC only like Vein, it will truly be a hybrid.
Jibran#one
Member
So it's a fucking pc ? With some Xbox starting animation and few background closed apps ?.
Ar¢tos
Member
And maybe even readapted adverts from Xbox OS to keep the money dripping in!
You'll watch Doritos commercials every time you launch/quit and pause a game!
DeltaPolarBear
Member
That would only matter if Magnus actually sold a decent number. Instead these sports games would just keep releasing Xbox Series versions of these games until sales drop off entirely. Magnus would not be sold enough to influence porting decisions.
Ar¢tos
Member
Because it is hard to believe.
Hardware BC is out of the question, the 360 Cpu wasn't x86 and the Xbox and 360 GPUs were Nvidia.
Emulation carries potential licensing issues and requires per game optimisation, so I think they mean BC as in the current Xbox and 360 titles they already do BC in the Series consoles (at least until those licenses eventually expire).
bitbydeath
Gold Member
bad guy
as bad as Danny Zuko in gym knickers
I didn't misread it. It just wasn't true.
Nydius
Member
I find that hard to believe simply because there's still a litany of legal licensing issues that need sorting to achieve that.
foamdino
Member
We will see. Nothing says MS solution more than taking off the shelf parts, doing *absolutely nothing* and then claiming that these are *custom* - it's literally waht they did from the OG Xbox onwards. Each gen the western games media falls for it and each gen it's the same story - they do not do custom work, they take a collection of existing IP (or near future roadmap IP) and claim it's custom.
The exact assemblage of these specific blocks will be "custom" for MS - AMD will not create the same thing for anyone else - so again if you squint you can claim it's custom.
DavidGzz
Member
So, they are doing what they always do but you'll also get access to PC (the BEST platform) only games? What is not to love? It's wild that people say PC like it's a bad thing. I wonder how the reception would be if it was a Sony/Steam hybrid console. So much different that it's crazy. You all know it. Same goes for a PSP 2 with access to Steam, etc. But of course, its MS so the hate is blatant. A platform with more freedom is bad. Walled garden or bust.
JerryinSoCal
Member
I have a really hard time believing that they will have a console that doesn't require you to pay to play online, that's where they've always made a huge portion of their money.
Team Andromeda
Member
That's just bullshit. The only corp that took an off the shelf part and literally did nothing with it at all! was NCL on the Switch Hell, Nintendo didn't even put its badge on the SOC
Even if they're using PC parts, you still have some customisation to shrink them down and work inside a console form factor or in the case of the Series X and PS5 add some ray tracing support at that time. Its not simply a PC GPU just put inside SOC
And I don't get why people are so against using the best tech for a console, even if it comes from PC or wherever. I couldn't give a shit that Power VR came from the PC when playing my DC, or how the Mega Drive CPU was an 'off the shelf' CPU.
The only sad part over the last few generations is both SONY and Xbox are using the same vendor for their SOC, but even then, you can get a different experience with each console
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RetroGamingUK
Member
They won't have a console, that's the point
DavidGzz
Member
Only consoles will play GTA 6 at launch, no way they don't release one. It just has extra bells and whistles.
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RetroGamingUK
Member
Only consoles will play GTA 6 at launch, no way they don't release one. It just has extra bells and whistles.
It'll play the Xbox Series version via BC
PC version will be out by the time Magnus arrives.
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DavidGzz
Member
So, it does what a console can do and then some? So not a console but it will provide console benefits while also giving us access to Steam/Epic/GoG, etc? How is this bad besides the price tag? Sounds great to me. Won't the PS6 also play the PS5 version of GTA6? Then maybe Rockstar will patch an upgraded PS6 version, and if so, why would they omit those features for Magnus?
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Bernardougf
Member
They wont ... the ps5pro barely gets any support, imagine specific optimization for a niche low sale hardware ... this thing will brute force pc games as they are and MS will update drivers for it just like a gpu.
RetroGamingUK
Member
you don't know Rockstar do you.As for the rest, expect Windows 12 to have the same gaming interface as ROG Ally and Magnus
Diego Brasil
Member
Xbox Full Screen Experience will allow you to exit out to full Windows
...... Indeed, you could run Adobe CC or Microsoft Office on the next Xbox, if you so choose
The new Xbox is a PC
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clappedcheeks
Member
A steam machine or windows pc with a PlayStation badge is not a PlayStation and I would personally not entertain a hybrid like that no matter who makes it. MS gets hate because they're a shitty company with monopolistic tendencies. Windows also gets hate because it's shite, it's unfortunate that it's essentially the only OS for PC gaming.
vaibhavpisal
Member
Why would you not entertain it?
MisterXDTV
Member
And the few people that upgrade from Series to Magnus will not want to play the BC Series version, so they will be forced to buy the game again for PC at full price
LOL
clappedcheeks
Member
I get to play plenty of games on a console that I don't feel I'm missing out on anything. I deal with a lot less cheating and it's generally a slicker experience without having to deal with windows updates and drivers. Now MS may fix it but their track record with operating systems leaves a lot to be desired. The only temptation would be for the VR injectors and mods for flat screen games, if I could afford the setup. I get that steam users will get value but as I don't have a steam library it's not of interest to me currently, although I may be persuaded in the future. I am very interested in the tech that will go into these machines though. It could be a very interesting future.
vaibhavpisal
Member
I am guessing tech in next gen systems is going to rely on upscaling tech etc. Will be getting 4k 120 etc with a lot of RT enabled. (Path tracing?).
Along with magnus, most exciting for me is PS portable. It will likely be similar to current windows handhelds, but with much better upscaling, lighter, more attractive price etc.
DavidGzz
Member
Yeah, it's worse. It's a PC with a PS UI and a walled garden. What makes a console a console? Limitations? Those suck.
DavidGzz
Member
Or hear me out, they will have the luxury of getting the superior version on the same device. I double dip all the time. Like this is a bad thing lol!
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Ar¢tos
Member
!?!
- Customised fixed hardware vs thousands of possible combinations of off the shelf parts
- OS built specifically for the hardware vs refurbished decades old Windows NT kernel.
- APIs made specific for it vs Directx
- no need to update graphic drivers and other drivers separately everytime a new game is released
- no shader compilation
There is a lot more that makes a console a console than "limitations".
clappedcheeks
Member
Different strokes for different folks.
REDRZA MWS
Member
I'm fully in. MS studios, third parity and some PC games, with no paywall for online gaming? I'm in.
icecold1983
Member
More like the limited performance spec of a console with the overhead and poor optimization of a PC. This is going to be such a fail.
memoryman3
Member
It MUST have a comparable GDDR7 pool against PS6, plus 32GB of DDR5 RAM, to be competitive for years. Otherwise Microsoft's model will be beaten by OEMS.
Ar¢tos
Member
Yes, but think of the possibilities!
You can plug an USB to Serial or Parallel port adapter and plug an old Dot Matrix printer or old TWAIN scanner and it will work out of the box!
Proelite
Member
Outside if key CPU and GPU IP blocks there were custom silicon in the Xbox consoles post 360. 360 is completely custom. XB1 chip had 360 BC parts, move engines, and shape audio. XB1X had some CPU functions turned into HW blocks. Audio for the series APUs were also custom, and I believe sampler feedback streaming (not regular sampler feedback) is custom. I remember velocity engine being not available on PC either.
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Tobimacoss
Member
I don't disagree that the device will run full bore windows. That much is obvious. But that doesn't mean it couldn't be locked down like Windows S mode, with Xbox OS shell on top for that "curated" experience. MS still want to prevent piracy, cheating, hacking on/of the device.
But I'm asking for a source of your claim that MS will change their Xbox game development environment that they have been working on for 7 years, which itself is a journey of 12+ years to reach that point collectively.
Full Windows has two primary game dev environments since UWP was deprecated. The Windows SDK for unpackaged traditional PC games and GDK for MSIXVC packaged Xbox games. That part isn't changing, unless you can provide documentation which MS would need to start updating 18-24 months before the hardware release.
So you took out Consoles from the Gamepass tiers even though MS has stated explicitly several times they're doing "first party consoles".
The Ads were for the free xCloud tier, not a Gamepass tier.
Full Windows can run everything, it already runs Windows SDK and GDK games, UWP still runs. The windows NT kernel on consoles runs both XDK (Xbox One games before 2020) and GDK (Series) games.
Reason why MS won't stop using GDK is simple. MSIXVC packaging, designed for security. It prevents most hacking, piracy, cheating, translation layers like Proton. The packages are signed and notarized to run on Windows only, just like how iOS apps can run on iOS and macOS only. That is the reason why you can't get native Gamepass on SteamOS.
Windows SDK unpackaged games require Denuvo to prevent piracy, and require anti cheats to try to stop cheating. MSIXVC packaged GDK games don't require those things.
That's from the GDK GitHub page. The question at heart isn't whether MS will stop using GDK or use full windows on next hardware. Yes, they will both use full windows and still use GDK.
So both windows SDK and GDK (Xbox PC) games are designed to scale to hardware. Console versions (mainly AAA) are simply GDK games that are optimized to fixed spec hardware utilizing the GDKX.
The main question for me is whether they will still enforce mandatory optimization to Magnus hardware using the GDKX. If they don't, then it's simply the GDK Xbox PC games that can scale to all PC hardware. That would only make sense to do if MS is going full unification of ecosystem. Forcing EA, Ubisoft, Rockstar to release on Xbox PC store or not release on Xbox at all. Otherwise the Console form factor will still have GDKX optimized versions that become a separate SKU in terms of licensing and binaries. .
WhamBamThankYouMaam
Member
So, a pc but they want me to buy all games via them?