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[Freelance Yakuza]

Daddy Netanyahu said no to Trump backing out of the war.

 

[buttnuggett]

Daddy Netanyahu said no to Trump backing out of the war.

TBF, their 10 point plan was garbage. Although that's only a starting point.

 

[HRK69]

 

[Clear]

Trump never wanted NATO to be a part of this. His sudden and seemingly incoherent about face from "we don't want you" to "why aren't you helping us" and back to "ha, we never wanted you in the first place" was just part of his years long side quest to leave NATO.

The closure of the strait should not have been tolerated by the international community, and really ought to have triggered a robust response from the European partners. That they didn't is a sign of their weakness. Specifically political weakness as armed forces aren't self funded - the fact is that Europe has been letting its military degrade while pouring billions into other things like "green" subsidies.

What's worse is that were war to ever break out across the continent, who exactly is going to be doing the fighting is anyone's guess when the most patriotic are frequently at odds with their governments due to open-border policies and international trade-deals that marginalize native producers.

 

[near]

"I've seen a lot of inaccurate coverage from the media ..."

Bruh ... POTUS himself retweeted Iran's message about the US accepting the 10 point proposal framework, lol.

And directly acknowledging that the US can work with that.

These guys really can't keep a single story straight, can they?

A workable basis for negotiation isn't an agreement, is it?

 

[adamsapple]

A workable basis for negotiation isn't an agreement, is it?

No, but it's also not "fundamentally unacceptable and un-serious" like Leavitt says either. Otherwise POTUS wouldn't have re-tweeted it or called it a 'workable basis', no?

 

[ADiTAR]

I see so many Israel-broke-my-brain people joining this discussion.

 

[buttnuggett]

I see so many Israel-broke-my-brain people joining this discussion.

I'm not seeing that much anti-Isreal things here. Mostly, it's just Americans and Europeans squabbling.

 

[Nydius]

The closure of the strait should not have been tolerated by the international community, and really ought to have triggered a robust response from the European partners. That they didn't is a sign of their weakness. Specifically political weakness as armed forces aren't self funded - the fact is that Europe has been letting its military degrade while pouring billions into other things like "green" subsidies.

What's worse is that were war to ever break out across the continent, who exactly is going to be doing the fighting is anyone's guess when the most patriotic are frequently at odds with their governments due to open-border policies and international trade-deals that marginalize native producers.

Give me a break. The closure of the strait was a direct result of the United States and Israel preemptively attacking Iran without so much as notifying any of their European Allies. Why should Europe suddenly be obligated to clean up the mess the United States and Israel makes? NATO is a defensive alliance, no single member nation can start a war and then drag NATO along for the ride simply because they're part of NATO. That's never been how it works.

The fact that the EU is telling Trump to piss off is the exact opposite of weakness.

 

[near]

No, but it's also not "fundamentally unacceptable and un-serious" like Leavitt says either. Otherwise POTUS wouldn't have re-tweeted it or called it a 'workable basis', no?

You can reject a proposal and use it as a starting point for negotiations, that's how diplomacy works. Workable basis just means that discussions can progress from there, not that it's acceptable or agreed.

 

[Three]

Do you honestly think Trump was planning on ordering random bombing of civilians? That he seriously was going to order Hiroshima/Nagasaki style nuclear bombing?

Really?!

No, it was just his nutty hyperbole.

Bunch of resentful people chanting "death to America, the great satan" on the streets = not nutty hyperbole but a real threat to the country despite absolutely nothing in reality happening.

The president of the united states bombing the shit out of Iran killing school children/civilians saying "A whole civilisation will die tonight, never to be brought back again" = He didn't really mean it bro it's just nutty hyperbole.

He wasn't going to nuke it but there was a real threat of a nuclear catastrophe as he threatened to bomb Nuclear power plants like Bushehr.

 

[Trilobit]

Just wait till you "get rid of all immigration" and find that your life and the country hasn't improved at all, and move on to the next out group your overlords tell you is the cause of your suffering.
Will be a real treat.

Arabs have been assaulting the old Swedes in elderly care and some have even been taking videos of them doing that and sent to their arab friends. The children born to immigrants are being used as child soldiers by gangs ran by foreigners here. I'd say that if there were mass deportations in the Nordic countries then the economies would massively improve and the countries would be incredibly much safer.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

 

[adamsapple]

You can reject a proposal and use it as a starting point for negotiations, that's how diplomacy works. Workable basis just means that discussions can progress from there, not that it's acceptable or agreed.

Ok, but you wouldn't consider something "fundamentally unacceptable and unserious" as even a workable basis in the first place, I know I wouldn't.

So that leaves us with two possibilities, either POTUS didn't read a single word of what was sent yesterday before saying he could use it as as workable basis, or the messaging changed after the fact.

 

[calico]

The fact that the EU is telling Trump to piss off is the exact opposite of weakness.

Shouldn't they be getting tough with Iran? You know, the party threatening to destroy their civilian shipping and impede their freedom of navigation?

 

[buttnuggett]

Give me a break. The closure of the strait was a direct result of the United States and Israel preemptively attacking Iran without so much as notifying any of their European Allies. Why should Europe suddenly be obligated to clean up the mess the United States and Israel makes? NATO is a defensive alliance, no single member nation can start a war and then drag NATO along for the ride simply because they're part of NATO. That's never been how it works.

The fact that the EU is telling Trump to piss off is the exact opposite of weakness.

What would the Europeans have done about it if we did? The closure of the straight was due to Iranian terrorism. As far as the European obligation, don't be surprised if we tell you that we're not obligated anymore. Both sides need to spare their righteous indignation.

 

[TheAtomicPile]

I see so many Israel-broke-my-brain people joining this discussion.

Look pal, the genocidal apartheid state known as Israel can start making demands as soon as they apologize for all their people, homes, and defense systems continuously getting in the way of Hezbolla's rockets. Some form of compensation for said rocket destruction would go a long way as well.

 

[near]

Ok, but you wouldn't consider something "fundamentally unacceptable and unserious" as even a workable basis in the first place, I know I wouldn't.

So that leaves us with two possibilities, either POTUS didn't read a single word of what was sent yesterday before saying he could use it as as workable basis, or the messaging changed after the fact.

I don't really see the problem. The proposal could be fundamentally unacceptable, while parts of it remain usable as a basis for negotiation. Those aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[buttnuggett]

Look pal, the genocidal apartheid state known as Israel can start making demands as soon as they apologize for all their people, homes, and defense systems continuously getting in the way of Hezbolla's rockets. Some form of compensation for said rocket destruction would go a long way as well.

Spare us your buzzwords. Look, I have a problem with AIPAC, but Isreal has been more than more than willing to deal with them on a normal basis. The fucking problem is you can't negotiate with death cultist. Which is probably why our cease fire will fail.

 

[adamsapple]

What would the Europeans have done about it if we did?

Did what?

The closure of the straight was due to Iranian terrorism.

Iranian terrorism was and is still happening, the strait was closed as a direct response to the attacks and this was told to the US beforehand in briefings as a possibility.

Report: Trump knew Iran could shut off Strait of Hormuz before launching war

U.S. Officials Warned Iran Could Block the Key Oil Route, but Trump Believed Tehran Would Back Down First

www.haaretz.com

As far as the European obligation, don't be surprised if we tell you that we're not obligated anymore. Both sides need to spare their righteous indignation.

Both sides need to spare righteous indignation, our side needs to lessen the tone deaf statements and constant threats to our own allies as well.

 

[buttnuggett]

Did what?



Iranian terrorism was and is still happening, the strait was closed as a direct response to the attacks and this was told to the US beforehand in briefings as a possibility.

Report: Trump knew Iran could shut off Strait of Hormuz before launching war

U.S. Officials Warned Iran Could Block the Key Oil Route, but Trump Believed Tehran Would Back Down First

www.haaretz.com

Both sides need to spare righteous indignation, our side needs to lessen the tone deaf statements and constant threats to our own allies as well.

So it was closed due to Iranian terrorism.

 

[adamsapple]

So it was closed due to Iranian terrorism.

Sure, in the way a person who got shot dies from shortness of breath, I guess. The end result is the same.

 

[Hari Seldon]

This makes a lot more sense. Just propaganda flying around everywhere.

 

[calico]

Are you suggesting the Iranian regime is not responsible for its own actions? That terrorism is somehow akin to an involuntary response?

 

[buttnuggett]

Sure, in the way a person who got shot dies from shortness of breath, I guess. The end result is the same.

So you accept this as a legitimate strategy.

 

[BlackTron]

And Europe proceeded to make the alliance even shakier with the denial of airspace. I get it that the Euro population hates the US, but fucking with the US logistics while they are at war is a great way to make a permanent enemy that lasts well beyond Trump. If I was Poland I would be fucking pissed right now.

So if another country threatened to annex territory from the United States, you would support the US allowing that country to use our airspace for the war they drop weeks later without consulting us in any way?

 

[Vestal]

So you accept this as a legitimate strategy.

Who cares if legitimate or not? Who is going to stop them?!? If they end up owning the strait and collecting a tax we will have legitimized their terroristic behavior in the strait.

 

[buttnuggett]

Who cares if legitimate or not? Who is going to stop them?!? If they end up owning the straight and collecting a tax we will have legitimized their terroristic behavior in the straight.

Who's to stop us if we wanted to take over Canada or Greenland? I mean, you can't stop us, right? Unable to stop us doesn't make it right.

 

[Vestal]

Who's to stop us if we wanted to take over Canada or Greenland? I mean, you can't stop us, right?

Ok? what does that matter? I would hope that "we the people" would stop our leaders from doing something as dumb as that.

 

[Bojji]

Who's to stop us if we wanted to take over Canada or Greenland? I mean, you can't stop us, right? Unable to stop us doesn't make it right.

I guess war with the rest of NATO would stop you. Putin thought he could take Ukraine in 3 days, and that they will submit willingly.

 

[buttnuggett]

Ok? what does that matter? I would hope that "we the people" would stop our leaders from doing something as dumb as that.

This response doesn't even make sense.

 

[adamsapple]

So you accept this as a legitimate strategy.

huh? I'm not sure what you mean. The strait was open before, it was closed as a response to the US and Israel attacks on Iran. This is a factual statement.

Who's to stop us if we wanted to take over Canada or Greenland? I mean, you can't stop us, right? Unable to stop us doesn't make it right.

what?

 

[buttnuggett]

I guess war with the rest of NATO would stop you. Putin thought he could take Ukraine in 3 days, and that they will submit willingly.

With what? Y'all can't even field anything. The only thing that would remotely stop us would French hubris on using nukes. Not that I would want that. The whole fucking thing is stupid.

 

[buttnuggett]

huh? I'm not sure what you mean. The strait was open before, it was closed as a response to the US and Israel attacks on Iran. This is a factual statement.



what?

Europe couldn't stop us from taking over all of Canada or Greenland. So that makes it right? No, it's fucking retarded and beneath us.

 

[adamsapple]

Europe couldn't stop us from taking over all of Canada or Greenland. So that makes it right? No, it's fucking retarded and beneath us.

I have no idea what the hell that has anything to do with the discussion at hand, lol, but yes. The US attacking, or even threatening to, attack Canada and/or Greenland is retarded and beneath us.

 

[Hari Seldon]

So if another country threatened to annex territory from the United States, you would support the US allowing that country to use our airspace for the war they drop weeks later without consulting us in any way?

My problem is not Europe's beef with Trump, it is Europe aiding Iran by denying the use of airspace for logistical flights. Not a single American should ever die for Europe again after this shit show.

 

[calico]

If they end up owning the strait and collecting a tax we will have legitimized their terroristic behavior in the strait.

Those paying such a toll for passage will have, yes.

Now imagine they are in a position to use nuclear weapons to demand tribute.

I guess war with the rest of NATO would stop you.

Lmao.

Putin thought he could take Ukraine in 3 days, and that they will submit willingly.

It wouldn't have taken much longer than that without US involvement.

 

[buttnuggett]

I have no idea what the hell that has anything to do with the discussion at hand, lol, but yes. The US attacking, or even threatening to, attack Canada and/or Greenland is retarded and beneath us.

Yes, so is Iran. I wasn't talking threateningly, I was talking about doing. Just because you can't stop us, doesn't mean it's OK.

 

[Bojji]

Those paying such a toll for passage will have, yes.

Now imagine they are in a position to use nuclear weapons to demand tribute.


Lmao.


It wouldn't have taken much longer than that without US involvement.

What USA did to stop Russians in Ukraine in first 3 days of war?

 

[buttnuggett]

My problem is not Europe's beef with Trump, it is Europe aiding Iran by denying the use of airspace for logistical flights. Not a single American should ever die for Europe again after this shit show.

If we can kill the dollar hegemony, we should. We have roughly 9k metric tons of gold, produce more energy than we produce(although are heavy crude dependant), and have the only known source of pure quartz. We would suffer for a couple years and bounce back.

 

[buttnuggett]

What USA did to stop Russians in Ukraine in first 3 days of war?

We've provided them with cash, munitions and old ass equipment. Although the latter doesn't matter that much. That shit was going to a boneyard eventually anyways.

 

[Bojji]

We've provided them with cash, munitions and old ass equipment. Although the latter doesn't matter that much. That shit was going to a boneyard eventually anyways.

But this didn't do much in the first 3 days of war. Most of the equipment arrived later.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

 

[buttnuggett]

But this didn't do much in the first 3 days of war. Most of the equipment arrived later.

Who did that much in the first 3 days? The only relevant response was the Ukrainian one. Well that and Russia's hubris who thought that shit would be over in a few days.

 

[Sybrix]

What a fucking mess.

Ceasefire already broken, strait of hormuz still closed.

What exactly has been achieved here?

Not even Trump has the balls to follow through on his threats, what a joke.

 

[buttnuggett]

Short term. If this deal doesn't favor us massively, we'll be back in 5-10.

 

[Stitch]

With what?

They will release a strongly worded letter

 

[Bojji]

Who did that much in the first 3 days? The only relevant response was the Ukrainian one. Well that and Russia's hubris who thought that shit would be over in a few days.

USA (or any other country) didn't do shit for Ukraine in the first days of war, they were on their own.

If Putin was right, this war would have ended in February 2022. You may be right that USA could take Greenland (duh) and maybe even Canada by force, but I don't think it would be as easy as some people think.

There are many examples where super mighty and powerful countries lost to small enemies, like Vietnam for USA, Afghanistan (for Soviet Union, British Empire and USA) or Arab countries vs. Israel.

Right now "weak" Ukraine is holding back against "mighty" Russia. Wars are much more complicated than some people think, just looking at numbers of military equipment and soldiers is not enough.

 

[adamsapple]

Yeah, not surprising that the VAST majority of people would prefer ceasefire.

 

[buttnuggett]

USA (or any other country) didn't do shit for Ukraine in the first days of war, they were on their own.

If Putin was right, this war would have ended in February 2022. You may be right that USA could take Greenland (duh) and maybe even Canada by force, but I don't think it would be as easy as some people think.

There are many examples where super mighty and powerful countries lost to small enemies, like Vietnam for USA, Afghanistan (for Soviet Union, British Empire and USA) or Arab countries vs. Israel.

Right now "weak" Ukraine is holding back against "mighty" Russia. Wars are much more complicated than some people think, just looking at numbers of military equipment and soldiers is not enough.

What? We gave them cash money for their pensions and government, we gave systems we didn't have a whole of. Mainly patriots and Himars. Unless the 3 days is a kicker for a gotcha. America put forth more than Europe did for awhile. Even now, you're buying our excess military equipment. Where is this fabled Euro arms production that we've been hearing so much about? Ya, Europe has passed us on aid, but you should've.