Justin Timberlake
Member
So does this mean its now Pau's turn to elbow opposing player's in the head?
2012 NBA Playoffs |OT2| OKC VS LA: Black on Black Crime
- Thread starter reilo
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So does this mean its now Pau's turn to elbow opposing player's in the head?
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
I do. In terms of being successful, its not even debatable.
Prototype-03
Member
His elbow would crumble first.
I only ever speak the truth. Whether you want to accept it or not is not my concern. I am here to inform, not convert.
That said, Pop isn't qualified to shine Phil's shoes.
Black Mamba
Member
One, yes. Two? no. Notice how when Wade was hurt and not playing Bosh got the ball a lot more on the block? I don't blame Lebron or Wade alone, it's the combo to blame.
Bosh with Bron on bench = 21.3 pts per 36 min vs 17 with. And 3 more FGA and 1 more FTA.
Without Wade, it's 23 pp36 vs 16. And again 3 more FGA and 2 more FTA.
Wade and Bron, together, are why Bosh doesn't get the ball enough on the block.
Also, Kobe has way more of an off the ball game than Wade and especially Bron. Lamar would often set the table, not Kobe. Not the case in Miami.
You really think that Lebron and Wade are ignoring Bosh while he's in the post? You can't really think that, can you? It's part of the gameplan, which of course changes when one of Wade/Lebron is not playing.
Spoelstra should tell Lebron, Wade, and Chalmers to feed Bosh five straight times at the beginning of every game.
Spoelstra should tell Lebron, Wade, and Chalmers to feed Bosh five straight times at the beginning of every game.
What exactly are we disagreeing with me on?
Is Tim Duncan a better defender than Kobe? Yes
Is Tim Duncan the best big man defender of all time? No
Is Kobe one of the best perimeter defenders of his generation? Yes
My argument to Reilo was, if you're arguing that Tim Duncan is better than Kobe because his defense is better, or because he has more finals MVP's? does that mean that Tim Duncan is also better than Bird and Magic because of the same thing? Magic does have only 3 finals MVP's after all, and would have only 2 if Kareem didn't get injured before game 6 in 1980.
So, does that mean that Bird and Magic who were both porous defensively, who played on better teams than both Kobe and Duncan, and who had around the same chips / finals MVP's as Kobe and Duncan...are inferior to Kobe and Duncan?
And if not, then the argument is inconsistent and part and parcel with what happens to Kobe, i.e. his achievements are de-valued in relation to other all time pantheon greats....i.e. Magic and Birds defensive deficiencies are ignored and Kobe's defensive accomplishments are discredited. Tim Duncan's Defensive greatness is exaggerated (Arguably best defensive big of all time) despite the fact that between KG, Ben Wallace, Dwight, and Mourning...his defensive best-in-game status was debatable every year. some years he was the best, some years he wasn't.
Is Tim Duncan a better defender than Kobe? Yes
Is Tim Duncan the best big man defender of all time? No
Is Kobe one of the best perimeter defenders of his generation? Yes
My argument to Reilo was, if you're arguing that Tim Duncan is better than Kobe because his defense is better, or because he has more finals MVP's? does that mean that Tim Duncan is also better than Bird and Magic because of the same thing? Magic does have only 3 finals MVP's after all, and would have only 2 if Kareem didn't get injured before game 6 in 1980.
So, does that mean that Bird and Magic who were both porous defensively, who played on better teams than both Kobe and Duncan, and who had around the same chips / finals MVP's as Kobe and Duncan...are inferior to Kobe and Duncan?
And if not, then the argument is inconsistent and part and parcel with what happens to Kobe, i.e. his achievements are de-valued in relation to other all time pantheon greats....i.e. Magic and Birds defensive deficiencies are ignored and Kobe's defensive accomplishments are discredited. Tim Duncan's Defensive greatness is exaggerated (Arguably best defensive big of all time) despite the fact that between KG, Ben Wallace, Dwight, and Mourning...his defensive best-in-game status was debatable every year. some years he was the best, some years he wasn't.
MorisUkunRasik
Member
We in our zone, we in everyone else's zone. We're in dz discovery zone. We in the autozone and the twilight zone, picking out auto accessories that tell us something about the human condition.
We definitely in our zone.
Prototype-03
Member
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
My hero.
Black Mamba
Member
Wade and Lebron won't allow it. the ball has to be in their hands. No coach, other than maybe Phil, Pop, and Doc have the credentials to force them to do it, either.
Bosh doesn't even bother going to the post. He's never big on posting, but he used to be great on isolations towards the baseline. But he know all he can do is screen & pop/roll or try to find empty space to get the ball.
Wade and Bron in the game means no touches for Bosh for him to create. People called it the moment they got together and now that it's happened, you want to blame the coach. LOL
It's infinitly easier to have a defensive impact as a post player.
That said, Timmy is an all time great big on O and D. Love him to death. Wish he'd have teamed with Kobe in their primes for some beautiful play, but yeah... Kobe shut down prime T-Mac, prime Iverson when it mattered most. So let's not act as if Kobe was a chump on D, either.
Kobe was capable of being all world defensively (and actually all world at certain times), he just didn't put in enough effort because he just wanted to score. I ain't mad at him for it though.
That said, Timmy is an all time great big on O and D. Love him to death. Wish he'd have teamed with Kobe in their primes for some beautiful play, but yeah... Kobe shut down prime T-Mac, prime Iverson when it mattered most. So let's not act as if Kobe was a chump on D, either.
Kobe was capable of being all world defensively (and actually all world at certain times), he just didn't put in enough effort because he just wanted to score. I ain't mad at him for it though.
Justin Timberlake
Member
I have a hard time blaming Spo for much with the way Wade and Bron treat him
Can't coach a team that doesn't want to be coached
They desperately need Pat to take over tho. They need a guy who'll just flash his rings and tell them to stfu and listen.
Can't coach a team that doesn't want to be coached
They desperately need Pat to take over tho. They need a guy who'll just flash his rings and tell them to stfu and listen.
I'm not sold on the argument that they're ignoring Bosh, but I will buy the argument that Lebron and Wade's games inhibit what Bosh is actually fairly good at: going one-on-one in the post.
The biggest threat for a post-player is not being fed the ball when in the post. Whether that's up to assholeness, lack of post-entry-pass skills, bad coaching, etc is up to debate.
Black Mamba
Member
vag said:
Duncan was always the DPOY from about 1999-2008. Always. Yes, Ben Wallace was there and so was KG, but Duncan, IMO, was always head. The difference was that Ben, who was elite on D make no mistake, racked up rebounding and block totals that got writers to vote a certain way.
But Duncan's defense was superior still. He's just been super underrated at it because there are no big stats or flashes. Denying entry into the post, forcing bad shots, etc do not show up on a conventional stat sheet for him. He only ever had trouble with Shaq.
Regarding Kobe: Kobe was also elite in his younger days. The new rules passed in the early 2000s made it impossible for an elite offensive player to also be elite on defense. It now takes way too much work to play defense on the perimeter to still maintain your offense. He sacrificed his D to keep his O churning. What player is elite on O and D other than arguably Lebron right now (and that's mostly based off help D and his unmatched size/speed for a SF). The elite offensive players like Durant, CP3, etc are good but not elite on D. But when you watch Durant at the end of the game play D, you can see he could be elite when it needs to happen.
I don't think they're intentionally ignoring Bosh. It's just that Wade and bron take turns and there are no turns left for Bosh. When one is not playing, then the other takes turns with Bosh.
Catching up on the thread and just caught this video. Hakeem's still got it. I learned more moves from that 8 minute video than I did from my coaches. Ridiculous.
Yeah, it's not incompetence or selfish play, but rather incompatible styles of play.
MorisUkunRasik
Member
Dat muscle memory, and elite control damn.
He just has a great basketball body to be that big and still that mobile at his age after all his time in the NBA.
Dominican Power
Member
Justin Timberlake
Member
Frankly the whole MIA debacle makes me feel cheated as a fan of the game. Like it or not, Chris Bosh was one of the top players in the league in Toronto. Period. And now we aren't getting a chance to see his talents because Bron and Wade want to play hero ball. There aren't enough shots to go around in Miami, which wouldn't be a problem if the league didn't have teams like Charlotte where Corey fucking Maggette got 12 shots a game.
Very similar to the Laker situation. But at least Bynum is unlikable so idgaf.
Very similar to the Laker situation. But at least Bynum is unlikable so idgaf.
Looks like a dog bone.
marathonfool
Member
He set the blueprint for HOF big men. Play soccer for balance and footwork. Don't touch a basketball until you know how to move.
I'm guessing he played soccer at a young age to have footwork like that.
Edit: Beaten. So he did.
Certain sports lend themselves to other sports. My neice is currently playing both basketball and volleyball. She was looking to joining another sport and asked what she should join (softball or track and field) and I told her to run track in order to build stamina and speed.
Black Mamba
Member
Duncan didn't play til late too. He wanted to be an Olympic swimmer. I think he started at 14. He stopped because the hurricaine destroyed the only olympic pool and he was too afraid of sharks to swim in the ocean! Think about how close the NBA almost never got Duncan.
Iron E Man
Member
Out of work early I can actually see two full games for once not counting weekend games.
Also a little late no problem Moris. I might have another guest pass if anyone wants it.
Also a little late no problem Moris. I might have another guest pass if anyone wants it.
damn you so youre saying Kanter will be even better?
MorisUkunRasik
Member
not bad, not bad.
That's more respectable, I guess, lol.
I'm ready to eat crow for Kanter if you're ready to eat more crow for Biyombo.
Black Mamba
Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DnKOc6FISU&hd=1
This Kyrie Irving short is excellent. I hope it's real (as in everyone didn't know). Watch it!
edit: youtube comment gold!
lol
This Kyrie Irving short is excellent. I hope it's real (as in everyone didn't know). Watch it!
edit: youtube comment gold!
i liked dwade's old man impression last night against the pacers
lol
I cant even remember what i said about Biyombo, i think i called him Jeremy Evans in the lottery? Both could be real good, both could still be busts (Kanter and Biyombo)
Every time i judge a rookie i get burned.
I'm a lurker in this thread but your comment reminded me of something from the recent article in Sports Illustrated on Duncan. Pop must have been shitting himself.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1198491/1/index.htm
British commentary over a Spurs-Clippers NBA2K12 game. surprisingly entertaining - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ejf7I1I8dTk&feature=player_embedded#!
Looks like trash on the ground behind his hand.
that was pretty awesome
haha, that's exactly what it is.
Black Mamba
Member
MorisUkunRasik
Member
At what point in the fan fic do Gervin and The Admiral double team Manu as Tony watches?
he got his shot blocked twice by Thomas in 4 games, and scored off one of those... close enough i guess
Justin Timberlake
Member
Everyone should read it. One of the best sports articles I've read.
The KG v Duncan section makes a potential Spurs-Celtics finals even more exciting.
(tho we'll get Spurs-Pacers instead)
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Doest best-gaf still have that irc room or is the dream over?
It'd be in the OP if reilo wasn't determined to live out his fantasies of being me circa 2009 in the chatroom.
See, you remember! That's not good.
Bitch please.
It's yi.studio64.yi.org #nba-age.
Forceatowulf
G***n S**n*bi
I like this Kyrie Irving guy. He's alright.
RedAssedApe
Banned
LOL...everyone watch this.
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