Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Either Steambx or WiiU wins.
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EDGE: The next Xbox: Always online, no second-hand games, 50GB Blu-ray and new kinect
- Thread starter Hanmik
- Start date
Either Steambx or WiiU wins.
Duxxy3
Member
I'll take painfully obvious for $200 Alex.
And hopefully the Wii U can get more serious Japanese third party support at least, maybe the Wii U Game Pad will help give something of a resurgence for core home gaming there.
And yeah, those games are why I can't help but think an always online DRM scheme that's consolewide is doomed to failure. Blizzard had issues, and Ubisoft's a huge company, just needed phoning home every so often, and STILL had huge problems, can you imagine trying to juggle this with millions of users across all games regardless of publisher? Hell, forget your opinion on always online DRM: It's simply more pragmatic to wait until post-launch for the issues to be sorted out. At least the Wii U was just an obnoxiously long firmware update, can you imagine what'd be going on with consoles also needing to be online all the time at launch?
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Yup.. but an always-connected console is going to have a lot of "single player" games with tons of connected content. Pirate versions are going to be more compromised than ever.
Kill Your Masters
Member
It's sad as people who will pirate the game will have more freedom to use it.
The paying customer is the one who gets fucked up the ass all the time. And boy do we take it like champions.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
If I could use hackery to enable the use of used games, while not risk getting banned online? Ok, I will take that.
And god.. think of how inexpensive the used games are going to be....
And god.. think of how inexpensive the used games are going to be....
Night_Trekker
Member
Yep. And of course, that's one reason we're seeing shifts towards more multiplayer features in big budget games.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
And if the legit consumer is necessarily online, that online hook needn't be multiplayer.
Like... dynamic internet in-game advertising in every single player game ever? Why the hell not
Clay Davis
Member
isn't steambox essentially the same though? you buy licenses, just like is being rumoured here.
wii u seems to be the only legitimate alternative.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
Can't tell if serious.
Spieler Eins
Member
And handhelds.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
I can't see why devs would be lining up to abuse people with new Kinect games.
No pay for online, and better deals on the software. I can't see MS suddenly getting reasonable with their pricing next gen.
That depends on the developers.
dead monkey uk
Member
Agree with this, its all about the games. Its very likely I will buy a new xbox and PS4, when I buy it will be determined by the games released, not any features or services.
Have never bought or sold many second hand games. From my experience second hand games are too expensive, often cost more than a new copy online. Will miss being able to swap games with friends though.
Don't know about AC but Diablo 3 pretty much failed to everything that always-online was supposed to prevent ( bots / hacks / exploits ) and on top of that added new restrictions about how and when the player can play ... despite the sales number ( that have more to do with D2's reputation that D3 itself) it's not really what I would call a successful experience.
F2P games are another story, cause always-online is part of the model, and part of why they are free, but we all now they're far from being perfect either.
Clay Davis
Member
indeed. although I worry about vita if sony implement such a feature on ps4. I don't believe they will, just as I don't believe it will be a feature in durango, but then I've been shocked by both companies stupidity in the past...
if microsoft are indeed going for a similar approach to steam in selling licenses, I think we're going to see a very different xbox live. it wouldn't surprise me if they drop the paywall for online play due to them getting a bigger slice of revenue from games sold.
software deals might apply to both, it's not fair to assume that everything will stay the same if they do go down this route. saying that, it's also not sensible to assume they'll change their ways either, so I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
back to the point, the wii u and handhelds would remain the only legitimate alternatives to this direction of selling licenses / killing the used market.
definitely, but if sales fall on the other next gen consoles, we could see a shift towards third parties releasing games on the u to see if it's a viable platform for them.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
This is a company that charges you $60 a year, and still makes money off the games sold and then makes more money by ramming ads down your throat.
I can't see them retiring their free money model until they are forced to do so.
I believe that companies tend to operate on inertia rather than logic.
Kageshinzo
Member
IF this is really happening, and both Sony and Microsoft fully adopt it, I can't wait for the third video game industry crash to happen.
Reset. Restart. Back to zero.
Reset. Restart. Back to zero.
why would steambox auto-win? it does the same thing.
Big-ass Ramp
hella bullets that's true
wow no used games?! I'll stick to Steam then!
...
...
Um, WiiU?
No thanks
It's under the assumption that Microsoft wouldn't have any marketplace sales compared o Steam.
Poohblaster
Member
I know I'm sticking to Steam too! The used marketplace on Steam is a wonderland!
The difference has to do from the ecosystem it's coming from. On PC, Steam is so popular because of the various levels of competition between it and the tons of other services. On consoles it's a smaller pool of direct competition, and as a result prices on tons of games are left rather static, especially on the digital sphere.
Steambox is migrating the PC ecosystem to the TV while Microsoft, if this rumor is true of course, is forcing the market to conform to such a model. There's a grand difference between this model emerging via competition in one sector and literally being bolted into another. That is precisely the issue, and why so many people can be comfortable with Steam and how things are on the PC marketplace and be absolutely disgusted at it happening on the console front. It works on PC because you have more options than I could probably name, and they're all trying to one up one another with deals and services whereas on consoles your option is normally three pathways; through Nintendo, through Sony, or through Microsoft. Their deals and services are more defined in them being first party, exclusive content, not sales and deals for the consumer. There is zero precedent that a non-used platform will have Steam-like sales. Those were born from a byproduct of the PC market being so massive for consumer choice. That choice is crippled as is on a console front.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
Pretty much. I can count the number of used games I've bought on one hand and the number of games I've sold on the other.
As long as it has built in wi-fi I also don't have an issue with requiring an internet connection.
That said, I still take this rumour with a big grain of salt. Even IF every game required a unique authorization I'm betting they have some system in place for people who buy a used game to get a new code.
That way Gamestop can't charge $55 for a recent used $60 game, people will have incentive to get the new copy because it will be cheaper in the end.
Great post.
master_emman
Neo Member
wow. screw Microsoft and Xbox.
I think people are thinking about MS vs Steam pricing when they say this. Not gonna lie, I spent 22 bucks (it was 21.6something but I'm rounding up) for 5 games about a month ago - Witcher 2 I believe was the largest purchase at 7 bucks.
I don't think MS or Sony can compete with those prices. Just my thought on what everyone means when they mention Steam.
/shrug
I could be wrong but I don't believe MS has made an official statement. The silence doesn't help tho. In all fairness I wouldn't call this egg hatched just yet.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
My thoughts exactly.
Restrictions also restrict sales, and if somebody coded in a DRM another person can decode it. I think the only smart way MS or Sony could have the always-online thing is if they code in a back door to allow them to universally deactivate it with a firmware update. It will literally kill their chances of success, and being unable to revoke it will screw them over when they decide they don't like it anymore.
Reading through all the reactions almost makes me want to get a Wii U instead ... but then I remember their account system rubbish.
Are we really going to have to wait until the 20th until this is possibly debunked (for at least one console)? If it's untrue then it's just all negative press for weeks, enough to sour my excitement for next gen anyway.
Are we really going to have to wait until the 20th until this is possibly debunked (for at least one console)? If it's untrue then it's just all negative press for weeks, enough to sour my excitement for next gen anyway.
ultrazilla
Gold Member
I'm sure it's been mentioned but if they are going code
activation for individual games tied to a system what happens
with bricked systems? You now have a two-fold headache. Dead
system and jumping through hoops to prove you own the game tied
to the system that is bricked.
That's a consumer's nightmare.
Always on drm and codes for game activation could very well
kill the industry these developers claim is costing them money.
That's excellent business sense. /sarcasm
I hope MS and Sony don't pursue this route. My kids
and I were pumped for Durango and wanted me to preorder
day 1. Now I'll have to explain to them that because some people
like buying used games or download games illegally, honest
gamers are being penalized and being taken advantage of which is
unacceptable; ie; we won't support companies who think
we're thieves or because we try to save a little money buying used.
Though I must say my WiiU is looking *really* good right now.
activation for individual games tied to a system what happens
with bricked systems? You now have a two-fold headache. Dead
system and jumping through hoops to prove you own the game tied
to the system that is bricked.
That's a consumer's nightmare.
Always on drm and codes for game activation could very well
kill the industry these developers claim is costing them money.
That's excellent business sense. /sarcasm
I hope MS and Sony don't pursue this route. My kids
and I were pumped for Durango and wanted me to preorder
day 1. Now I'll have to explain to them that because some people
like buying used games or download games illegally, honest
gamers are being penalized and being taken advantage of which is
unacceptable; ie; we won't support companies who think
we're thieves or because we try to save a little money buying used.
Though I must say my WiiU is looking *really* good right now.
Because without the possibility of 2nd hand sales, almost no one would be able to buy new houses and many people would not be able to buy new cars. So when a company sells a new house or car, much of their revenue is only made possible by the fact that 2nd hand sales can happen in the future.
In the games business, most people would be able to afford untradable $60 games, but many people would choose not to if they can't get trade-in credit back. To think that you can make more money by making your product less valuable is quite an "interesting" line of thought, I guess we'll see how it goes for them.
Nealand Liquor
Member
Nope, there is still the 360 and ps3 available. It's not like devs are going to abandon the near 180 million existing consoles in the marketplace for a couple years anyway, regardless of anti-used games.
...and with these latests news, the WiiU shuddenly got much more desirable into my eyes. Well, at least I will got to play Bayonetta 2. And now that I think about it, the Steambox could be a very nifty addition to my bedroom, too.
Also, might I ask if we know yet if the Playstation 4 will have another anti second hand games bullshit too?
Also, might I ask if we know yet if the Playstation 4 will have another anti second hand games bullshit too?
polyh3dron
Banned
Well, unlike the Wii U, all XBL and PSN codes are tied to your fucking account. Your Wii U is actually looking *really* shitty in this regard because any digital purchases from Nintendo's eShop actually ARE tied to the console. If said Wii U is bricked it is then that you are fucked, and by Nintendo.
XBL's digital purchasing policy is just like Steam in that your purchases are tied to your account. Same with PSN. Your FUD does not apply here but actually does apply to the alternative you are suggesting.
Bojanglez
The Amiga Brotherhood
This is why I don't buy anything digital from Nintendo, my Wii died and I lost it all :-(
Rhazer Fusion
Member
That would be so ironic considering so many people are saying they are sick and tired of current generation graphics.
polyh3dron
Banned
Yep, I have a Wii U and 3DS myself and have not purchased any games digitally and refuse to for the future.
Dion Blaster
Member
But you don't need any codes for Wii U retail games, which is what he was getting at.
ultrazilla
Gold Member
I haven't bought digital from Nintendo. That's bad though and Nintendo needs
to change that.
If anything is FUD it's the article sourced in the OP.
Granted we don't know if this is true or not. But entertaining the idea, I could see Microsoft going down this road.
The most valued consumer is the core gamer. The core gamer plays the first party franchises, and those games all have an online component. The core gamer most likely pays the subscription for Live and has done so from the beginning. Outside of the paywall itself, the core gamer likely has paid for the services behind the paywall that already have online connectivity requirements (Netflix, Hulu, various sports packages). XBLA exists only for online connected individuals. There are those who don't have internet, but how avid a gamer are they? How tethered are they to Live, their main revenue source.
This new generation begins with the core gamer. MS is the market leader among the core in US and EU. I'm sure for many its the defacto console. Lock folks into the service now. You lose some in the transition, but while at the top of your game, you lock folks in. You groom those consumers.
I don't think this stops gamers from leaning towards MS. I think gamers will complain now, see the games, realize its sitting on a shelf at launch, and that nothing is inhibiting them from playing their Halos, Cods, Forzas, etc, but their will...and cave in...if they don't succumb to preordering first.
I'm not sure how this will effect the industry, and ultimately I want what's best for it and the consumer...but I just don't see gamers as a whole doing something or making some stand against this. I would really be surprised if this translates into any significant amount of people choosing a competitor for this sole reason.
The most valued consumer is the core gamer. The core gamer plays the first party franchises, and those games all have an online component. The core gamer most likely pays the subscription for Live and has done so from the beginning. Outside of the paywall itself, the core gamer likely has paid for the services behind the paywall that already have online connectivity requirements (Netflix, Hulu, various sports packages). XBLA exists only for online connected individuals. There are those who don't have internet, but how avid a gamer are they? How tethered are they to Live, their main revenue source.
This new generation begins with the core gamer. MS is the market leader among the core in US and EU. I'm sure for many its the defacto console. Lock folks into the service now. You lose some in the transition, but while at the top of your game, you lock folks in. You groom those consumers.
I don't think this stops gamers from leaning towards MS. I think gamers will complain now, see the games, realize its sitting on a shelf at launch, and that nothing is inhibiting them from playing their Halos, Cods, Forzas, etc, but their will...and cave in...if they don't succumb to preordering first.
I'm not sure how this will effect the industry, and ultimately I want what's best for it and the consumer...but I just don't see gamers as a whole doing something or making some stand against this. I would really be surprised if this translates into any significant amount of people choosing a competitor for this sole reason.
polyh3dron
Banned
He was also saying that games would be tied to the console which is absolutely wrong and hilariously ironic considering he spoke of the Wii U in glowing terms in the very same paragraph. Hypocrisy of the highest order.
Yeah, does feel like they're trying to break the mold here, not living off the razor and blade business model that's been traditionally associated with this industry and relying on game royalties. They entered the console space as a hardware manufacturer but now wants to evolve the industry into a service-oriented one where they hope to reap even more profits while still selling technically-competent hardware.