What will happen is that the frame would be read from the front buffer, sent to what ever hardware encoder they have and then sent to RAM.
They will not be storing lots of lossless frames.
BTW
I doubt you would be happy with 6GB of GDDR3.
PS4 has 8 GB OF GDDR5 RAM
- Thread starter Log4Girlz
- Start date
What will happen is that the frame would be read from the front buffer, sent to what ever hardware encoder they have and then sent to RAM.
They will not be storing lots of lossless frames.
BTW
I doubt you would be happy with 6GB of GDDR3.
Doubtful. I honestly think that Skyrim PS3 played a part in the PS4 Ram situation.
No, LODs are not used for saving RAM.
crazygambit
Member
Think about it for a second. The whole point of having more RAM is to not have to refill it every cycle. If you had 3-4 GB, you would need to load from the HDD much more often, leading to lower performance. This essentially allows you to hold most current gen titles entirely on RAM, thus never having to load from an HDD, except the first time, which is just mind boggling.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
Die sizes for cpu's and gpu's are hovering around 32nm, a far cry from the 120-90nm size and the processor will probably be clocked around 1.7-2.0ghz (based on rumors). Processing speed has actually gone down with more cores added so it draws less power and heat.
Day 1 for you?
Good eye. yeah, GDDR5 obviously. ^_^
Now I only hope for one thing that neither microsoft nor sony could pull of the past gen:
SPLIT THE NOTIFICATION SYSTEM INTO "on/offline" and "receives message" options FFS >_>
DerpButter
Member
I would have, but thinking on it, quickly filling 8gbs of ram from storage that averages maybe 80MB/s (30MB/s or less if its coming from the BD) just sounds like a nightmare, solved only by minute plus load times or some slow texture pop-in.
Edit: Maybe I should have offered 6GB UMA + 16GB Flash as an option.
Shogmaster
Member
I can't decide if this move is brilliant bold move or act of foolish desperation. I'm leaning towards latter since it gives pricing advantage to MS.
I wonder how PC's do it.
From an architectural viewpoint the PS4 is, well, pretty boring. So we
essentially have a PC++. That's fine, nothing special. The one thing Sony got
right big times is the bandwidth. 176GB/s lets you pull a lot of sophisticated
algorithms/formulas/equations into action. I can see great things coming.
essentially have a PC++. That's fine, nothing special. The one thing Sony got
right big times is the bandwidth. 176GB/s lets you pull a lot of sophisticated
algorithms/formulas/equations into action. I can see great things coming.
clutch.as.it.gets.
Member
Crytek talked about Crysis 2 and the pc/console differences and they said the main difference between the two were the pop ups and lod issues because they had to stream in everything because of the small RAM pool, while the PC version doesn`t have those issues because they can preload the whole game into the ram and don`t need streaming.
BloodMoney
Banned
I can only think they are in the microsoft camp... i mean really, whats not to like? 8GB of GDDR5 is a bombshell. Price whatever, I'm in!
Like I said previously, you're just using RAM as a cache at this point. Just as fast to use a good SSD or some cheap DDR3 memory for that purpose. GDDR5 is much too expensive for this.
Actually, from a fresh restart to completely filling up 8GB of main memory, using a HDD as the only disk, would take a few minutes to pull off.
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
....HOLY HELL, THIS CROW TASTES ABSOLUTELY DELICIOUS!
No idea either, I've ran games off my SSD and hard drive, while the SSD was faster it wasn't fast enough to get another SSD for just games. My WD black does a good enough job.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
There is still latency between ssd and cpu/gpu. There is a reason why modern video cards use gddr5.
Latency between cpu and (gddr5)ram is still less than any other process, especially baked into the system as opposed to using some kind of external bus. Especially considering the ram will be surrounding the cpu/gpu as close as thermodynamically possible, which further lowers the latency issues (we're still bounded by the speed of an electron here).
From the moment I start to play a game, it takes less than a minute to start. I will not include a start up sequence that includes loading the entirety of windows.
That's the plan, as long as I can afford it.
the BBQ sauce makes it go down smooth
DerpButter
Member
Current PC games aren't pulling anything like 8gbs off the drive all at once, shit thats the size of most games. Looking at maybe 600-2500 total between main ram and texture, the people that run crazy amounts of vram right now use tend to a lot of it on large framebuffers (AA, SSAA, Eyefinity, ETC).
Edit: Also, if you're on a desktop with a full size, 3.5" 7200rpm hdd, you're looking at close to double the read speed of what will probably be in the ps4.
That won't be a problem. The bandwidth of GDDR5 is need just to feed the rendering requirements of the GPU. If you are just going to stream textures, and only show a subset of them at a time, then a much slower type of RAM or a SSD would be just as good as an all-GDDR5 setup.
Perhaps if you want to preload a massively detailed single scene with huge textures (taking a few minutes to load) and just play around in it without leaving, then I suppose having that much main memory would be a benefit. I don't know if we'll see a game like that in this generation.
What DerpButter said.
Is it loading even the 2 gigs all at once? No. there is no concern having a large RAM pool slowing down the start up of a game. It should be trivial to design games around streaming as you play (considering all the work that has gone into streaming this gen).
Unknown Soldier
Member
This is Kaz's Sony now. He's either going to completely turn the company around and singlehandedly revive the Japanese consumer electronics industry, or lead it to it's final ruin. Look at Sony. Their courage hangs by a thread. If this is to be their end, then Kaz would have them make such an end, as to be worthy of remembrance.
Let's there be no doubts...there's a price war brewing.
Crytek is probably having the time of their lives right now. They wont have to optimize any ram related codes for the PS4 this gen.
But I honestly doubt they will make great game with it.
Now that you mention it. Its gonna be another Wii-like tech difference again.
To those of you saying that this is excessive, you're thinking of a traditional memory hierarchy. With this much GDDR5, you could really load up on textures AND silently cache core game engine into memory and effectively eliminate load times entirely. Even more than most PC games do. Because the only thing faster than this kind of RAM is CPU cache. SSD is like 100x slower than this RAM.
As a PC gamer, I find this intriguing. Both PS4 launch games will likely wow me, and this will really drive innovation in PC GPUs. With Sony buying hundreds of millions of GDDR5 chips, prices are going to go down. Game engine architectures using caching will be extended to PC.
As a PC gamer, I find this intriguing. Both PS4 launch games will likely wow me, and this will really drive innovation in PC GPUs. With Sony buying hundreds of millions of GDDR5 chips, prices are going to go down. Game engine architectures using caching will be extended to PC.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
Thank you.
Plus the proliferation of faster memory is a-okay in my book. Seriously I want.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Yep! It's going to be awesome building a new PC in a few years with an insane video card and gobs of DDR5 RAM.
NaughtyCalibur
Member
I'm guessing some (if not all) the tech demos/games we saw today were running on 4GB GDDR5 (except maybe Knack since the guy who announced it is developing the game). My hunch is that they decided to boost to 8GB GDDR5 relatively recently.
Backfoggen
Banned
Even more hilarious now that people said "2GB is the max we'll get and even then it's gonna be a huge jump".
ALBOFIGHTER
Member
Can tech GAF answer something for me. Since many are saying GDDR5 will have more latency then ddr3, will this affect input lag at all? I play fighting games so even an extra frame of input lag is a big no no. For this gen, some fighters had an extra frame of lag on ps3 then on 360.
Other then that, as long as cpu and gpu are customized a bit, I am very happy with the ps4. The specs were something I worried about for a while because if they sucked, then all the games would suffer from it. Now that I know the system is good enough, I am relieved and I can just focus on the games from now on. The launch games already look good enough to me that I wouldn't care if graphics don't improve in the next few years. Just work on physics and animations
Other then that, as long as cpu and gpu are customized a bit, I am very happy with the ps4. The specs were something I worried about for a while because if they sucked, then all the games would suffer from it. Now that I know the system is good enough, I am relieved and I can just focus on the games from now on. The launch games already look good enough to me that I wouldn't care if graphics don't improve in the next few years. Just work on physics and animations
Why would cheaper ram matter to them?
Can tech GAF answer something for me. Since many are saying GDDR5 will have more latency then ddr3, will this affect input lag at all? I play fighting games so even an extra frame of input lag is a big no no. For this gen, some fighters had an extra frame of lag on ps3 then on 360.
Other then that, as long as cpu and gpu are customized a bit, I am very happy with the ps4. The specs were something I worried about for a while because if they sucked, then all the games would suffer from it. Now that I know the system is good enough, I am relieved and I can just focus on the games from now on. The launch games already look good enough to me that I wouldn't care if graphics don't improve in the next few years. Just work on physics and animations
No.
Hydrargyrus
Member
This is insane.
OMG, that is a lot of GDDR5!!!
OMG, that is a lot of GDDR5!!!