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[MDSLKTR]

KZ2 input delay again? Come on Guerilla...

That's like the best news of the article

 

[GodofWine]

You people have to remember a lot of these games were made when the ps4 only had 4gb of ram.

And we have no idea how old the code for the demos were on either console..hell it could be from January, giving everyone a year to shine things up.

I like the "6 months, you can't do anything in 6 months" response...like 99 percent of us have a clue..but I'm willing to bet that these games have large teams of smart people who are not sitting on their hands until september, I don't know much about development but I'm pretty sure a team a 100+ people can do a lot in 6 months.

Alpha code on dev kits or pcs emulating a console seems like a perfect way to judge stuff :/

Actually, DF should not even comment until they get the final release of a game. Hell, maybe IGN can just go ahead and review the games now too. (But they probably could since we can all guess the games that are getting 10s already)
.

 

[Moosichu]

Can someone please point out the last time a game's preview differed in any significant way to the final product? A lot of people here are saying the game's unfinished, yet it's releasing this fall. It's highly likely that whatever portions they show at this point are pretty much done, or so close it's barely noticeable. The 'it's not finished yet!' defense gets brought up every time, yet I can't remember the last time a game was so improved from E3 version to release that the framerate/visuals were notably better. Especially when the game in question is due by the end of the year.

Every single game every single E3. For a good example look at God of War 3 though.

 

[PairOfFilthySocks]

Evolution Studios own Motorstorm.


It's 35% finished.

Be disappointed in the final and complete product if it looks worse and runs like shit. Until then you're looking at pre-alpha code. A lot can happen in 6 months of development time.

'35% finished' and 'pre-alpha code' are PR buzzwords as far as I'm concerned. There's no way the game is internally being considered still at 'pre-alpha' stage with 6 months to go.

Assuming the game is 35% percent done and there's just 6 months to go, wouldn't that make overall development time about 9-10 months?

 

[eighty(one)]

Weren't MS booths using PCs to run the games, not actual XBox One's?

Smoke and mirrors.

 

[BloodMoney]

Raise your hand if you play Crysis 3 at 1080p 60fps with all graphic options maxed....
****crickets chirping****

I want 1080p/60 as much as the next guy, but come on.... A lot of people in this thread don't seem to understand that amazing graphic fidelity at 1080p resolution is a very hard thing to achieve at 60fps, even with high end PC components.

EDIT: those of you who can raise you hands about my opening statement, please don't lest ye acknowledge the total cost of your gaming PC.

 

[coldfoot]

30fps looks like kaka on plasma tvs

 

[Smokey]

so in this thread butt hurt Xbone fans jump to conclusions about unoptimized launch games that are months from completion because it makes them feel better........ok

Yeah I'm so butt hurt that I'm buying two ps4s on launch day. I'm hurting so much man . My butt hurts

 

[Fistwell]

30fps looks like kaka on plasma tvs

somethingsomething FIFA14 30fps something

beaten.

Yeah I'm so butt hurt that I'm buying two ps4s on launch day. I'm hurting so much man . My butt hurts

PS4 SLI for that 2X30=60fps next gen experience?

 

[farisr]

ITT: We pretend that this is how the final games are performing and cancel our preorders.

 

[MagicWithEarvin]

Raise your hand if you play Crysis 3 at 1080p 60fps with all graphic options maxed....
****crickets chirping****

I want 1080p/60 as much as the next guy, but come on.... A lot of people in this thread don't seem to understand that amazing graphic fidelity at 1080p resolution is a very hard thing to achieve at 60fps, even with high end PC components.

Um, er... someone else tell this guy.

 

[Moral Panic]

If we're going to compare pre-alpha code, let's at least compare games that are....you know...comparable.

Forza is a sim racer running 1080p60fps with no time of day, weather or real time car deformation. Driveclub is a more open-world racer running 1080p30fps with frame hitches. Dynamic time of day, weather and real-time car deformation (at least from what DF seemed to think).

Not that I think we should even be judging pre-alpha code, but there ya go.

Lol. Let's be serious here:

DriveClub:

When questioned, Evolution Studios confirms that it's pushed for a full-fat 1080p presentation, falling in line with all Sony's other leading PS4 titles. Unfortunately, this higher resolution only amplifies the low quality, blurry, flat-looking textures used across this level, which would easily look at home on current-gen hardware.

Alas, even this number isn't held convincingly during our play-testing, and the game dips noticeably below this point - a feeling of 20fps being achieved during doughnut-turns, where lots of tyre friction smoke is produced. Bearing in mind the PS4's next-gen tech (not to mention its 32 ROPs), we're somewhat surprised to see alpha transparency effects still having such an obvious impact on performance.

It's also a shame that, while the scenery draw distance is broad, there's an incredible amount of pop-in for trees and waving NPCs as we approach at high speeds.

Forza:

A full 1080p resolution is in evidence here, and there's no compromise made to alpha transparency effects such as smoke when painting tyre marks across the floor - a known compromise on Xbox 360 editions of the franchise.

The promised rate of visual feedback is 60fps, and it holds true to precisely that. The game appears v-synced on just about every race we saw, but we did notice one person experiencing terrible tearing - likely because he was playing using a different viewpoint. We took the very same demo booth and had no such problems from cockpit view.

Downsides are few and far between; there's "pop-out" in the rear-view mirror while set to cockpit view, where pieces of the world disappear abruptly after passing a certain point. It's hard to spot in action once in the town itself, but it's obvious for the first minute of the race.

Honestly, which of these games seem to be in a better state from DF analysis? DC isn't finished but what they've shown is disappointing when compared to the competition.

 

[Zok310]

That new controller is getting a lot of props.
Can't wait to try it. Hope Sony put up some kiosks at BB and GS before September.

 

[velociraptor]

Exactly. 1080p can still produce a lot of jaggies which makes a game look ugly.

720p looks horrendous even with 'maximum AA'.

 

[boredandlazy]

Everyone who seriously can't see the difference between 30 and 60 FPS is either ignorant or blind.

Rather ironic you calling other people ignorant. No-one has said they don't notice the difference, people(myself included) are saying they just don't care about it.

Put me in the 'better graphics at 30fps over worse graphics at 60fps camp'.

Of course, both would be ideal if possible.

 

[Mitchings]

Yes, but that doesn't jive with non-KZ players here. Apparently it needs to be super fast twitch shooter.

Why is there this immediate reaction that anyone who criticizes KZ's controls must want it to be like COD or other "twitchy" shooters. It seems to be the default defense and it is a big generalisation and assumption.

Few are saying the weight is a bad thing; but that weight should be a result of animation, physics etc. not input lag (or deadzone issues).

Being weighty and realistic is a good thing, but input lag is not, if I had a massive gun and a crap-tonne of armour on, my movement may be slower or restricted but my initial movement wouldn't have a 100ms+ of apparent lag.

 

[ElfArmy177]

Weren't MS booths using PCs to run the games, not actual XBox One's?

Smoke and mirrors.

yes, which makes this whole argument bullshit I guess. At least the ps4 games were running on an actual ps4

 

[WoolyNinja]

Still 4 months to go guys, try to take a deep breath and relax. The last part of almost every development project is optimizations.

 

[BloodMoney]

Um, er... someone else tell this guy.

Why don't you tell me, what ever it is... Um, er... I don't understand.

 

[Takuya]

I am more believing in DF than a random poster on GAF, yes.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-hands-on-with-xbox-one

Microsoft has a credibility problem. Xbox One launches in less than six months and yet its E3 press conference featured visibly poor performing software and a bunch of games actually running on PC-based surrogate hardware.

Crimson Dragon is the spiritual successor to the much-loved Panzer Dragoon series, built using Unreal Engine 3, the production of which started out as a Kinect-only experience titled Project Draco. In its current form, this is a new controller-based rail-shooter from Yukio Futatsugi, backed up by a score from returning composer Saori Kobayashi. Some disappointment creeps in when we're told that the game is running on a PC within a "debug environment".

Dead Rising 3
Coming from Capcom Vancouver with the aim of being the "ultimate open world zombie game", the demo clocks in at around 20 minutes with plenty of attention to outdoor scenarios. It's not running on actual Xbox One hardware, and the staff on-site describes the hardware platform as a "PC debugging environment".

Battlefield 4
A really short demo compared to the conference slice and disappointingly this was not playable at the Microsoft booth. This is the Angry Sea mission, where your ship rips in half and you navigate towards a Chinese cruiser - on top of which you fire at the shacklings of aircraft and they go sliding down the tilted deck of the ship. Absolutely spectacular, but nothing compared to the exploding skyscraper of the multiplayer demo.

1080p at 60FPS is being targeted on Xbox One, and also 64 players in multiplayer - both of which set it apart from previous console versions. When pressed, the Microsoft reps admitted it's running from a debug environment designed to the console's specs.

Software running on genuine, visible Xbox One hardware falls in with a small first-party club, including titles like Forza Motorsport 5, Killer Instinct and Ryse. Each plays at a promised 1080p native resolution, with the former two targeting 60fps as well, both of which show huge promise as launch titles, covering off the racing and fighting genres quite nicely. The lack of games optimised to this point on actual Xbox One hardware is worrying, but even so, if the E3 demos are at all indicative, fans of zombie action games and rail-shooters should also be very well catered for when the hardware launches.

 

[doublenagger]

used to play games like killing floor and unreal tournament 2K4 on a very poor laptop, at 800x600, lowest settings, sub 30 fps

i'm never going back to low resolutions like 720 and bellow

 

[Clockwork5]

Those of you arguing for 720p...

1080p literally has more than twice the detail. Even with AA you can't even come close to recovering all of that.

And 60fps has twice as smooth animations and responsiveness. It is all a matter of opinion, which is why I just want a resolution option on console games. I really dont see how this is too much to ask for.

 

[driver116]

Lol. Let's be serious here:

DriveClub:






Forza:








Honestly, which of these games seem to be in a better state from DF analysis? Theres no question, that the answer is F5.

Yet Evolution made it rather clear the the build on show was FAR from complete. It's an unfair comparison and a deliberate one on DF's part.

 

[Raymo]

Raise your hand if you play Crysis 3 at 1080p 60fps with all graphic options maxed....
****crickets chirping****

I want 1080p/60 as much as the next guy, but come on.... A lot of people in this thread don't seem to understand that amazing graphic fidelity at 1080p resolution is a very hard thing to achieve at 60fps, even with high end PC components.

I can do 1080p/60fps on Crysis 3 with high settings(some on maxed) and good IQ and it still blows all the next gen titles we've seen out the water. This is also on 2 year old hardware...

It's just about the only game that my system can't max out at 60fps and 1080p. I don't know what you were trying to accomplish by singleing out the most graphics intensive game that next gen consoles won't be able to touch.

 

[boredandlazy]

'35% finished' and 'pre-alpha code' are PR buzzwords as far as I'm concerned. There's no way the game is internally being considered still at 'pre-alpha' stage with 6 months to go.

Assuming the game is 35% percent done and there's just 6 months to go, wouldn't that make overall development time about 9-10 months?

The build shown at E3 was 35% done, doesn't mean it was the latest build.

 

[dark10x]

720p looks horrendous even with 'maximum AA'.

It's funny but, with a good CRT monitor, it can actually look phenomenal. You lose some of the definition you'd get with a higher resolution but the image is super clean and the fluidity of motion truly remarkable. Seriously.

Not to say that 720p is acceptable any more for modern displays, but when coupled with the right display, it can still look great.

I can do 1080p/60fps on Crysis 3 with high settings(some on maxed) and good IQ and it still blows all the next gen titles we've seen out the water. This is also on 2 year old hardware...

So can I but I disagree with your assessment. I think Infamous, Killzone SF, and The Division all look more impressive than Crysis 3, for instance. It's all kind of opinion, though.

 

[shinobi602]

Why is there this immediate reaction that anyone who criticizes KZ's controls must want it to be like COD or other "twitchy" shooters. It seems to be the default defense and it is a big generalisation and assumption.

Few are saying the weight is a bad thing; but that weight should be a result of animation, physics etc. not input lag (or deadzone issues).

Being weighty and realistic is a good thing, but input lag is not, if I had a massive gun and a crap-tonne of armour on, my movement may be slower or restricted but my initial movement wouldn't have a 100ms+ of apparent lag.

That's the way Guerilla designed their game to generate that weighty feel. There are plenty who don't like it, and plenty who do. The best thing for them to do is keep it the same for those who keep coming back to the franchise, their bread and butter. They're not going to change it up.

I prefer it this way anyway. There are plenty of other shooters out there for those who don't particularly enjoy this series...

 

[benny_a]

Brad Shoemaker from Giant Bomb said that everything PS4 that he saw was running on PC.

No endorsement, as it's Brad Shoemaker.

 

[Clockwork5]

720p looks horrendous even with 'maximum AA'.

LOL. r u serious?

 

[Metalmurphy]

Lol. Let's be serious here:

DriveClub:

Forza:


Honestly, which of these games seem to be in a better state from DF analysis? Theres no question, that the answer is F5.

As if that's definitive proof of anything. No mention of the better lighting, or the lower framerate/ resolution reflections, etc.

Looking at both games gameplay videos, Drive Club looks considerably better, even if it the one I want to play the least.

 

[Nafai1123]

Honestly, which of these games seem to be in a better state from DF analysis? Theres no question, that the answer is F5.

I completely agree with you there. I was just trying to put this whole "why is Driveclub 30fps when Forza is 60fps?" argument into perspective. It's not as easy as simply stating that they are both driving games.

 

[Drek]

So educate. Don't stop at people are dumb.

I'd say there are enough educated posts in this thread pointing out how:
1. all of these are basically alpha builds, likely old alpha builds as making a demo takes up valuable developer resources and so it's not something you do for every showing if your last build is passable.

2. they're running on new hardware that just got a RAM bump none of them have had time to utilize.

3. None of them have even been optimized yet because they're still being built.

4. Many of these developers in question have a history of doing the visual fine tuning late in development. Go look at the playable forms Motorstorm showed up as on it's way to release.

The fact that Sony was the only software studio who showed up with:
1. all games on actual PS4 hardware.
2. games that were open access demos, not a "demo" presented by a company employee going through proven and safe parts of the game.
3. aren't PS3/X360 games with slightly better assets making 1080p/60fps a layup.

Makes me happy. They learned their lesson from the PS3 reveal when they showed pre-rendered junk and didn't let people actually play games.

Also, 60fps whores really do take the fun out of next gen visual splendor. I don't care if a game like Knack runs at 30 or 60 fps as long as it's stable and looks good. Killzone can run at 30fps in single player and it won't bother me at all, I just might not be crazy about the MP if it also only runs at 30fps. 60fps isn't a requirement for every game, period. A lot of games won't see a noticeably playability bump for it and therefore you're short changing the customer by capping the visuals where you can still get 60fps. No thanks.

 

[ElTorro]

'35% finished' and 'pre-alpha code' are PR buzzwords as far as I'm concerned. There's no way the game is internally being considered still at 'pre-alpha' stage with 6 months to go?

Agree. One never knows, as the status of software cannot easily be measured in one-dimensional metrics, but DriveClub doesn't really sound that promising.

 

[Spongebob]

Early build are early.

 

[Takuya]

Isn't that what we're talking about? A handfull vs a handfull? 1080p/60 vs 1080p/30?

Also...you saw X1 "AAA" release date games running on PCs and didn't jump at the chance to take an "LOL" pic?

If you had been at the Xbox booth on Day 1 of E3 (only day I visited it), you could barely move due to the terrible layout of the booth.

 

[Grover Cleveland]

In this thread, we judge pre-alpha footage of launch games running on incomplete hardware as the final verdict on the console.

GAF never fails.

 

[Moral Panic]

Yet Evolution made it rather clear the the build on show was FAR from complete. It's an unfair comparison and a deliberate one on DF's part.

That's Evolutions fault then isn't it then? both games were shown on real hardware, both games are slated for launch, both games are in the same genre. Not DF's fault Evolution decided to bring an old build (if that's what this is).

 

[KHarvey16]

'35% finished' and 'pre-alpha code' are PR buzzwords as far as I'm concerned. There's no way the game is internally being considered still at 'pre-alpha' stage with 6 months to go.

Assuming the game is 35% percent done and there's just 6 months to go, wouldn't that make overall development time about 9-10 months?

The version being shown can be from any point in the development.

 

[Metalmurphy]

That's Evolutions fault then isn't it then? both games were shown on real hardware, both games are slated for launch, both games are in the same genre. Not DF's fault Evolution decided to bring an old build (if that's what this is).

What " fault "? Are we now judging games based on what they were prior to release?

 

[Lord Error]

Fair enough. I suppose it's the complete package that impresses me. It looks absolutely marvelous to my eyes and unlike anything I've seen before.

Indeed. They've achieved some kind of sparkly look in those city scenes that looks like it's ray-traced (unless you start inspecting closely that is), even though it isn't

 

[nofi]

Brad Shoemaker from Giant Bomb said that everything PS4 that he saw was running on PC.

No endorsement, as it's Brad Shoemaker.

At least some of the stuff in SCEE's room was PS4 dev kits.

Also worth noting that the build of DriveClub was specifically done for E3.

 

[velociraptor]

LOL. r u serious?

Yes. I've tried it out on my 'Samsung Smart TV LCD'.

However, for some reason, 720p and 1080p look virtually indistinguishable on a good plasma set. It seems like plasma TVs have some kind of upscaling wizardry.

 

[M°°nblade]

ITT: We pretend that this is how the final games are performing and cancel our preorders.

When developers say they are targeting 30fps, that means the final game will be optimised for 30fps. Don't count on 60fps.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

In this thread, we judge pre-alpha footage of launch games running on incomplete hardware as the final verdict on the console.

GAF never fails.

If you also read some of the responses, there's a slight undertone of bitterness which isn't really necessary for the thread.

 

[TheExecutive]

Seems like 30FPS being a standard for this gen is very disappointing.

and next gen as well. consumers for the most part cant tell between locked 30fps and 60fps. Until we reach diminishing returns to such a point that the graphics become negligible it will probably be this way.

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

Sounds like developers have yet to take advantage of final hardware and SDK updates.

Code optimization should iron things out, just a missing : can cause major slow down, but slow the software.

 

[PairOfFilthySocks]

The build shown at E3 was 35% done, doesn't mean it was the latest build.

So if we assume the game had a typical development schedule(ie. 1.5-2 years) that would mean this build is about a year old! Sorry, I don't buy it.

 

[ElTorro]

In this thread, we judge pre-alpha footage of launch games running on incomplete hardware as the final verdict on the console.

The only somewhat valid basis for a comparison of both console's performance would be a next-gen multiplatform game from a neutral and competent developer anyway, but I guess that everybody here already knows that...

I also don't really get why people think that the DF article is negative. Seem's to me that they are throughly impressed by the visuals of Killzone and Infamous.

 

[TheExecutive]

Yes. I've tried it out on my 'Samsung Smart TV LCD'.

However, for some reason, 720p and 1080p look virtually indistinguishable on a good plasma set. It seems like plasma TVs have some kind of upscaling wizardry.

what size of tv are you talking about and how far away are you sitting? without this information you sound crazy.

 

[Futurevoid]

'35% finished' and 'pre-alpha code' are PR buzzwords as far as I'm concerned. There's no way the game is internally being considered still at 'pre-alpha' stage with 6 months to go.

Assuming the game is 35% percent done and there's just 6 months to go, wouldn't that make overall development time about 9-10 months?

So then why /exactly/ are you judging the game based on a 35% complete E3 build?

Are you saying that the development team is lying and that the build they are showing at E3 is farther along then? If so, then your hypothesis as it were is that the game has no hope of ever turning the corner? You realize this is remarkably silly, right?

If what you're saying is that internally the team is farther along than the build they showed at E3, that goes exactly to my point. It's got 6 months of time to cook before it hits store shelves. Making judgments based on a E3 demo is laughable. That goes for product on either platform.