Ever had an employee that refuses to look presentable, but has incredible potential?
- Status
BolognaSoup
Member
Sounds very lawsuit-able.
entremet
Member
It's really an industry thing. In law for example, you need to dress well when at the office.
I work for a tech company, so people come in cargo shorts and sandals. No one cares.
But every workplace has a culture. How can you not understand this?
Not exactly the same thing, but I currently have an employee who does not want to join the management team here because he'd have to leave the union and start dressing properly. We don't have a strict dresscode for management here, but what he wears to work would be unacceptable.
I've told him multiple times that he has a job if he wants it, but he just doesn't want it. I guess it's good that he knows his own personal limitations...
I've told him multiple times that he has a job if he wants it, but he just doesn't want it. I guess it's good that he knows his own personal limitations...
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
I don't even keep up with WWE thanks to NJPW, for shame Carnby!
This is a legit question, wouldn't even be an issue if I didn't have Vince as my av!
Macmanus
Member
There isn't a single US corporation I've seen that's a strict meritocracy. Looks, presentation, and nepotism play just as large a factor in working your way up as your actual ability to perform.
Carnby
Member
Really? I thought I saw you post multiple time in the Summer Fest 2013 thread. Hmmm!?
entremet
Member
What does he wear.
It's probably what most people refer to as a "real job." There's a big difference between a well groomed beard and some scraggly, unkempt beard.
True, like I said if he's down for it that's cool.
sans_pants
avec_pénis
This thread could be about me.
I aint changing nothing tho
I aint changing nothing tho
Aesius
Member
I agree with everyone who says this guy probably doesn't even want to move up. If his work is great, he's probably a pretty bright person who understands that managers usually can't have overgrown beards.
Yes, more money is nice, but there's a ton of BS involved with middle management, including more ass kissing, more office politics, more scrutiny, more stress, and less time doing the work you actually enjoy.
Yes, more money is nice, but there's a ton of BS involved with middle management, including more ass kissing, more office politics, more scrutiny, more stress, and less time doing the work you actually enjoy.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Way I look at it, OP cares enough about the guy's well being and mobility to want to promote him, and realizes he's skilled. And if promoted means he has to deal with outside clients then yes, he's going to need to look presentable. It's unfortunate, but people judge based on looks, and these clients are not people that see him every day and know his capabilities.
Ultimately it's up to the employee himself. If he wants to move up, he'll clean up.
Ultimately it's up to the employee himself. If he wants to move up, he'll clean up.
Karak
Member
This is probably the best bet. Being direct is the best way to find out also if he is a continual good fit for any spot there at the company. Many jobs requires presentation as a part of the performance so bringing it up is fine. He can also hate the idea
I think its really cool that you are taking that time though.
Can Crusher
Banned
Unfortunately the world is still spinning around small time shit like that.
If the guy doesn't smell, his clothes look clean and he has all the attributes to succeed in the area.... Why would you even care if the guy shaves or not, or wears a goddamn tie.
Anyway give him the reality check. Tell him straight up that people care a lot about petty shit, and if he doesn't want to waste his potential at that company then he needs to get his shit together, and start listening to friendly advice like yours.
Don't sugar coat it.
If the guy doesn't smell, his clothes look clean and he has all the attributes to succeed in the area.... Why would you even care if the guy shaves or not, or wears a goddamn tie.
Anyway give him the reality check. Tell him straight up that people care a lot about petty shit, and if he doesn't want to waste his potential at that company then he needs to get his shit together, and start listening to friendly advice like yours.
Don't sugar coat it.
Clear your desk, leaving nothing on it but a mysterious object inside of a small box. Have another employee call him into your darkened office in which nothing but a single gleaming light is shining down on the desk. Tell him to have his seat, then let him know a bright future awaits him, but hinges on his acceptance of the contents within the box. His curiosity and a long period of silence with strong eye contact will eventually lead him to open the box, revealing a Gillette Fusion Power and a 12 count box of additional cartridges.
"You have 24 hours."
Walk out of your office and leave him in a stunned silence to ponder his future.
"You have 24 hours."
Walk out of your office and leave him in a stunned silence to ponder his future.
FriedConsole
Banned
I work in the tech industry and you can't just look like anything. You either need to conform to that alternative look or stay conservative but you can't look like a bum. Piercings and long hair are cool but try to wear an entire suit out of tin foil or wear wooden shoes and people don't accept you.
A lot of people who think their non conformists are just conforming to another sub culture.
A lot of people who think their non conformists are just conforming to another sub culture.
KibblesBits
Member
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
You better stop ignoring, I asked this twice before in an offhand manner.
About him wanting to be promoted? Right now I don't know. I thought I knew. I think he might want to only be promoted as far as his comfort level goes. I'll find out though.
It ain't easy being kemptttttttttttttttt!
I'm sorry this post, your sn and that avatar was too much for me lol. Anyways yeah, I'm sure most of us aren't privileged enough to dress casually. I worked in the same location as hospital patients and we have a lot of vendor reps visit us so we need to dress professionally, otherwise our clients will be offended.
I used to be somewhat of an offender myself, never bothering to unwrinkle my clothes. Then one day, an associate straight up called me out and now I iron my clothes all the time. Some people just need to be told directly to get the picture. XD
SirButterstick
Banned
It kind of shocks me how many people in this thread are saying, "LOL nice company, working for da man must suck lololololol." When you get a bit older you'll hopefully get it.
FriedConsole
Banned
Yep. If somebody is paying me good money and all I have to do is move around a mouse, sit in boring meetings, and look presentable for 8 hours a day for 5 days a week- call me a sell out. Having money is freedom.
out0v0rder
Member
I like this culture of people dressing like bums because they dont wanna conform or whatever hippie nonsense they believe. It makes it much easier for me to progress and stand out when i dress nice.
Aesius
Member
Are you able to tell what your boss had for lunch from the smell of his ass yet?
This man gets it.
I'm shocked you entered this thread; doesn't McDonald's still require specific uniforms?
Liquidsnake
Banned
This is Sunflower at work, making fun of his employees
Lol. XD
I like your stuff champ, its that "fuck those hippy fucks" attitude that will get you up the ladder in no time.
I know it's not realistic, but it would have been awesome if you lost the beard but kept a really creepy mustache.
I find that business types have a far different idea of what "looking like a bum" is.
Being an engineer and a rather low-maintenance kind of guy myself, as long as someone doesn't show up in rags, what's the problem?
While going through college, I'd hear from the business/management majors about how they had to go change into their dress/suit for their class presentation they had in an hour, or go out and buy one for their next class, and I couldn't help but roll my eyes at how superficial the whole thing was.
Not that appearance isn't important, but it feels like a dog and pony show the way it's emphasized in corporate management.
Oppo
Member
Fun anecdote:
Back in the initial dot-com boom days, I used to go and meet with all sorts of high powered clients. CEOs of mining companies and huge publishers and stuff like that.
I was pretty much always wearing casual button-down shirts (always untucked) or t-shirts, cargo shorts, usually sandals in the summer, and I loved that, because I had employers that actually took pride in doing their own thing. Plus it was crazy web heyday. Anyways.
I couldn't help but notice that the actual guys in charge – CEOs, CTOs, VPs and the like – they never gave a shit. Barely batted an eye. In fact I think they liked hobnobbing with the Creative Class in a way.
It was the middle managers and secretaries and those folks who would scowl at me, send me to the shipping entrance, and generally acted like dicks.
Just some food for thought.
I do believe that certain environments, it is considered good etiquette to show respect and wear a suit or whatever to big meetings or presentations, but a beard? Who cares. I'm with the "if he doesn't smell" team on this one. Plus, what a loss for your firm, if he ends up going somewhere else who doesn't care if he's biz-casual and very good at his job.
Back in the initial dot-com boom days, I used to go and meet with all sorts of high powered clients. CEOs of mining companies and huge publishers and stuff like that.
I was pretty much always wearing casual button-down shirts (always untucked) or t-shirts, cargo shorts, usually sandals in the summer, and I loved that, because I had employers that actually took pride in doing their own thing. Plus it was crazy web heyday. Anyways.
I couldn't help but notice that the actual guys in charge – CEOs, CTOs, VPs and the like – they never gave a shit. Barely batted an eye. In fact I think they liked hobnobbing with the Creative Class in a way.
It was the middle managers and secretaries and those folks who would scowl at me, send me to the shipping entrance, and generally acted like dicks.
Just some food for thought.
I do believe that certain environments, it is considered good etiquette to show respect and wear a suit or whatever to big meetings or presentations, but a beard? Who cares. I'm with the "if he doesn't smell" team on this one. Plus, what a loss for your firm, if he ends up going somewhere else who doesn't care if he's biz-casual and very good at his job.
Duane Cunningham
Member
This shit reminds me how much I hate the business world. I'm so glad I work for a smaller company. OP, I hope your employee uses his experience to land a job somewhere else where they'll appreciate his talents more than his goddamned beard.
GungHo
Single-handedly caused Exxon-Mobil to sue FOX, start World War 3
Tell him, straight up, that you see clear potential for him to advance further up the chain of command, and are willing to put in a recommendation for such advancement, but that you believe that if he wants to achieve that goal that he is going to have to conform to the more conservative attire and presentation (if not mindset) of the leadership team of your corporation. Don't be passive-aggressive about it. Send it like a cruise missile. Show him/explain to him examples of what they expect. Tell him that you think it's bullshit, but that it's something out of your and everyone else's control. Tell him he has the opportunity, but he has to be willing to change, and change soon.
However, also tell him that if he doesn't take it that it doesn't mean that he cannot work at the company and that he's not in danger of losing his job at all... but he is going to have to understand that he's closing that door for himself, and it's not going to get opened again unless there is a revolution in the corporate culture.
However, also tell him that if he doesn't take it that it doesn't mean that he cannot work at the company and that he's not in danger of losing his job at all... but he is going to have to understand that he's closing that door for himself, and it's not going to get opened again unless there is a revolution in the corporate culture.
Couldn't you just say; 'I think you do great would and are one of the people I was thinking of recommending for a promotion to 'position zed'. But management above me doesn't like the scraggly beard and unkempt hair since you would be interacting more with clients if you were promoted. Thought I would come to you with this and see if you were even interested in this position.'
You aren't technically guaranteeing him the promotion. You would just like to recommend him for one and also telling him the requirement for the position.
You aren't technically guaranteeing him the promotion. You would just like to recommend him for one and also telling him the requirement for the position.
Snowden's Secret
Banned
I was this guy on the other end, once upon a time.
I was middle management, and told straight up by corporate director of operations that I wouldn't go any further because I was so sloppy looking.
I was middle management, and told straight up by corporate director of operations that I wouldn't go any further because I was so sloppy looking.
Vicetrailia
Banned
I would tell him straight up.
Good luck OP.
Good luck OP.
Zoe
Member
... Nintendo's Booger?
The Albatross
Member
The hell does that even mean
maniac-kun
Member
So you are asking him to bend over and stop beeing the individual that he is.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
well that didn't go so well. will post details later, now's not the best time.
BronsonLee
Member
Oh crap D:
This sounds like straight up discrimination.
SkyMasterson
Member
Stealth Daniel Bryan thread haha
I'm a developer so they keep me away from customers. So in my line of work I can wear and look however I choose. Not to mention society at large has an "Oh those silly developers!" attitude towards us. But if someone has to actually interface with customers and their appearance matters you simply are going to have to talk with him. Tell him you want to promote him and you see his potential at the company but with this promotion comes with a dress code update.
AnotherNils
Member
Sounds like he's not as career minded as you hoped
TheMan
Member
lol, as someone posted above, you already talked to him and he refused to change, so it's likely that he just didn't give a fuck about the promotion. but you had to go and bust his balls again.
Which is probably what he's thinking and is why he probably wont reach his full potential in the field he works in. Your appearance matters in certain fields, whether people want to accept it or not. Maybe he just doesnt care and is comfortable with where he is and doesnt care about advancing in his line of work.
I'm thankful that my line of work allows me to grow out my crappy facial hair to try and avoid ingrown hairs. (I'm on the phones, and I still don't have all my facial hair grown in at 29.)
your company sounds like it's gone through a rough patch, the fallout of taking too many risks earlier on, and consequently spent all its resources pandering to its safest demographics. i bet you tried to remain relevant by embracing new media with all the natural grace of a drunk moonwalking uncle at a wedding reception, and now you can't understand why nobody agreed with the direction your company has taken for the longest time. you were simply out of touch, and are fortunate to have forward looking employees who can dig you out of it.
Yep my thoughts as well, haha.
- Status