3rdamention
Member
Value is perceived by the buyer, not the salseman.
Yusuf Mehdi on Xbox One: 'We have a better value proposition than our competitors'
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
Speedy Blue Dude
Banned
I usually don't defend Kinect because I don't like Kinect THAT much, but did you really just say Kinect is a joke?
Sorry, but that's just blind hate. As someone who got a Kinect 1 at launch, I can speak in favor of it actually HAVING used it.
Dance Central is amazing and probably the best dancing game ever made, so much fun to play by yourself and with your family.
Kinect Sports is a ton of fun and Rivials seems to be trying to make Kinect Sports even more innovative and fun, honestly the idea of having my own "hero" and competing against gamers world wide seems pretty damn awesome.
Kinect was perfect and was amazing to have in Forza. Head tracking in Forza Motorsport 5 was useful as hell and I loved it. The GPS Kinect feature in Forza Horizon was an awesome small feature and it just made the immersion of playing Horizon so much better. I actually felt like I was in a car talking to a GPS, it was pretty damn cool.
Kinect Adventure was fun to play with my family and we all had fun with it, was one of the are moments where EVERY single one of my family members played a video game together and enjoyed it (Dance Central is also in this category)
Kinect is in no way a "joke", sales themselves prove it. Kinect, if used correctly, can have a place in this industry, and frankly I can't wait to see what Kinect features are developed now that everyone owns one. I for one am excited to see how Kinect changes the Xbox Live community, I can not wait to start receiving more picture messages, and video chatting with my Xbox Live friends, I can't wait for everyone to have a mic (in case their Xbox One boxed in mic breaks, and knowing how terrible the build quality for the 360 mics were, I'm expecting them to break) I can't wait to navigate everything quickly and easily with my voice.
Seriously, Kinect may not be your thing, but it isn't a joke.
NoirVisage
Banned
They have families to feed, so they're assisting us in seeing the value that we otherwise wouldn't.
Ozzykamikaze
Member
You believe it's true anyway.
The ones who have the value, don't usually need to keep telling you that they do.
Watch the vid here... http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/08/20/kinect-sports-rivals-proves-kinect-20-actually-works
I am not impressed.
The "DNA" reminds me of blood from Virtuosity.
Different strokes but it looked fun to me. Pretty intuitive too, he cut it hard last second to make it into the wrecked boat shortcut. The only thing that worries me is that he never had to go less than full throttle. I assumed since they were pimping the "open hand/closed hand" function of Kinect 2.0 that you'd be forced to decelerate every so often. Not bad though. Again, I understand it's not for everybody. Damn, I get tired of feeling like I have to say that lol.
And they're useless for me. What's your point?
NoirVisage
Banned
Is this a joke? Poe's law rules all.
Ozzykamikaze
Member
I'd think that the vast majority of potential customers care mainly about the games. The ones that do not, aren't the people who support your system with software sales for years and years.
None of this appeals to the early adopters.
Early adopters are usually gaming enthusiasts that's why they buy a game console for $400-$500 dollars.
All that stuff you typed about was cool and fun in the beginning but the novelty wore off. People want to see how Kinect will benefit them as gamers before they put down an extra $100 for it.
I don't speak for anyone but myself, what you value is frankly irrelevant to me. Kinect has no value to me personally, which makes the higher price point far harder to accept when I know I'm getting weaker hardware.
recklesscognition
Member
The value they are selling is the Kinect. The problem is for someone like myself who had a 360 before Kinect came out, I have no idea what value this thing holds. The only connection I'm making in my mind is with the Wii and playing Wii sports with my grandmother and neices and nephews. I don't value that and would never want to use something like the Kinect. Thousands of people feel the same way.
MS has done a terrible job selling the Kinect 2.0. They say you can use your hands for navigation, great, I have a controller in my hands already that does the same thing. Use my voice, my kids are sleeping and I'll wake them up. Make an avatar? I'm paying 100 bucks for that? I just don't get it.
MS has done a terrible job selling the Kinect 2.0. They say you can use your hands for navigation, great, I have a controller in my hands already that does the same thing. Use my voice, my kids are sleeping and I'll wake them up. Make an avatar? I'm paying 100 bucks for that? I just don't get it.
Ozzykamikaze
Member
Is this copy/pasted from their PR firm?
What he said was his opinion, and a pretty widely shared opinion. Not sure why you feel the need to defend it.
NobleGundam
Banned
"We are confident. We are confident." Etc. Etc. Etc.
Really tired of seeing this. They haven't proved their product is worth buying for $499. All they praise only is Skype! Twitch! Blah Blah Blah!
It's just the Games and Console hardware.
Really tired of seeing this. They haven't proved their product is worth buying for $499. All they praise only is Skype! Twitch! Blah Blah Blah!
It's just the Games and Console hardware.
Mass Effect
Member
I doubt it. I know the Wii's motion controls were looked upon as a joke around here back when, but there are plenty of people that otherwise enjoyed them, myself included. Same applies to Kinect as well (though I don't care for Kinect).
I'm expecting dick pictures. Lots of dick pictures. Given the general maturity level displayed on Xbox Live, everyone having a camera is something I'd be worried about, but that's just me. Also, Kinect is a shitty mic alternative. Terrible echoing/reverberation and picking up people's TV/other people/general background noise. I hope they fixed that. Certainly not something to look forward to otherwise.
NoirVisage
Banned
Are you talking about an indecisive poster, or are you lumping the whole of gaf into one personality again? Some people like Titanfall and are convinced its coming to the PS4 and some aren't into it. Not as interesting huh?
purpletentacle
Member
Anecdotally speaking, all my friends who have Kinect 1.0 rarely, if ever, use it. Many have unplugged the thing, myself included.
Then there's the reality that developers can't figure out what to do with the thing beyond voice commands. Which can be cool, admittedly, but not enough to justify the units $150 dollar cost. I haven't seen a better argument be put forth with the Kinect 2.0.
Also, I've wondered how many people see the Xbox One's sales pitch and go, "Uh, voice commands, facial recognition, netflix and HBO go... my 360 already does that. Why should I upgrade?"
Obviously gamers will go for graphics and the next-gen exclusives, but what's being offered to Joe Six-pack? I think nothing.
Well, nothing they can't get on the 360, anyhow.
Speedy Blue Dude
Banned
I'm an early adopter. I'm buying both the PS4 and the Xbox One day one, and voice navigation matters to me. The fact that voice navigation for the PS4 via PS Camera is a huge plus for me, and is enough (if voice navigation is good) for me to go out and buy a PS Camera.
Don't generalize gamers. Some people don't want Kinect (or PS Camera), but some do and some are excited for it. I'm sure you can find a decent amount of gamers (not the majority, probably not even 25%, but it exist) that are excited for Kinect and it's features. Microsoft is already attempting to show gamers that Kinect is worth the $100. Microsoft is putting features like Skype, Video Recording, Snapping, and even adding neat bonuses like using the camera for a face cam and audio while live streaming. All these features are there in case voice navigation isn't enough to convince you that Kinect is worth $100. If being able to say "Xbox, On! Xbox, start Battlefield 4! Xbox, Record!" isn't up your alley, maybe other features will be. Games will most likely use Kinect for short cuts like they do now, I HOPE 343 adds in shortcuts like saying "Reload" to reload, like they did in Halo CEA, Kinect will obviously be used for menu navigation, and I hope HeadTracking returns in Forza Motorsport 5.
If none of these sell you on Kinect, Microsoft will obviously keep trying, by adding more Kinect features in games and most likely developing Kinect exclusive titles, and since Kinect adoption rate will be 100%, Third Party developers will most likely support Kinect.
Microsoft's job is to make gamers think Kinect is worth spending $100 more on the Xbox One, they said so themselves, and they're trying.
Haha I'm not going to lie, I had to Google Poe's Law to see exactly what it was. No, my post wasn't a joke or satire, it's just genuinely how I feel about the "Kinect is a joke" opinion. People are FREE to feel that way about Kinect, and I understand why they might, but I just felt like throwing my hat in, to show you guys that some people genuinely like Kinect, and I just tried to explain why I like Kinect.
I know it was his opinion, but I felt the need to share mine, because while it's fine to have an opinion, I just felt the need to have a nice little debate regarding if Kinect is a joke or not. He's opinion is that Kinect is a joke and always has been (I disagree with this), and that nothing fun or interesting has been shown, just wanted to share my thoughts on the issue, that Kinect has some fun content.
I won't lie, a TON of Kinect content is just garbage, and I wouldn't even consider touching it (Like the fighting game by Ubisoft, not sure what the title is, know it's getting a sequel), Harry Potter, Star Wars, Fable The Journey, etc, but I still feel like Kinect has potential that can be tapped upon now that Kinect 2 isn't as inaccurate and bad as Kinect 1 was, tech wise.
I've thought about the fact that some people might send inappropriate pictures, but I don't believe that many gamers would actually have the courage to (illegally) send pictures of their body parts over a service they pay $60 a year for, losing all online access to their account and losing all their content after receiving a permanent ban, also maybe risk being reported to the police.
I'm hoping the good outweighs the bad, I constantly receive nice picture messages from friends on Xbox Live, I think the feature is pretty cool, would love to see how the community uses it if everyone can do it. I like the concept of photosharing on Xbox Live, honestly, I WANT Xbox Live on Xbox One to have a twitter style page, where you can follow friends, and gamers can put status updates and just talk. I'd like to be able to just have "tweets" on Xbox Live saying stuff like "Halo 5 launch in 7 days! Who's buying!"
That's just me though.
Finally, Kinect 1 did a pretty good job of filtering out TV noise and background noise, assuming you properly calibrated it. As long as they allow a command that mutes the Kinect, and voice quality is raised significantly (Kinect 1 makes you sound like an annoying robot), Kinect 2 could be a fine alternative to an actual headset.
Phew, so many edits. Done now I think.
All this typing made me realize though, has Microsoft given an official name for Kinect Xbox One Edition? They always just say Kinect, pretty hard to differentiate the two if they're just both named Kinect.Yup, because...what? Polls have shown that gamers are siding with Sony. When you are on an enthusiast forum for games the climate is going to be pro-Sony and for good reason. My wife and I have the money to get both but after the DRM stuff we decided to spend the 180 money on games and accessories for the PS4. Once the DRM got 180'd we stuck by that decision and decided to get a 180 later. Got a WiiU day one too and we enjoy a PC hooked to the TV.
It's hilarious to see people call me a MS fanboy just because I don't want to ceremoniously drink from the fountain of Cerney while simultaneously shitting in the MS pool. Why is it a problem for me to like all platforms? I've been a gamer for 30 years, I don't care about how I consume them so long as I'm having fun.
jadedm17
Member
This.
Yes, you have Kinect, and other stuff our smart tvs and PS3/360s do already, great.
I want a gaming console*. A powerful one. Without an always-on camera. For $400. Do you hear me?
*XBone controller prefered.
I really hope the Ps4 controller doesn't suck for shooters.
One of the biggest value drivers the new Kinect offers is its IR blaster capability. It will be able to control all of the devices in your equipment rack, so when you say "Xbox On", it will automatically switch on your TV, AV receiver and cable box, switch them all to the correct inputs, and power down any unnecessary devices. And when you're done playing and you shut down the system, it will automatically shut everything else off as well.
That's the sort of functionality you only really get with a Harmony remote control--in fact, Microsoft hired one of the lead Harmony developers to work on this--and Harmony remotes retail for at least $60 or so. That feature alone provides nearly $60 of value (in as much as such value can be quantified.)
I own a Harmony 550 remote. It's the best $80 I ever spent on a gadget. As good as my Harmony 550 remote is, when I'm ready to watch something, I still have to pick up the remote, press the button and point it to my entertainment system for 10 seconds while it powers everything up. With the Kinect IR blaster, all I have to do is say "Xbox On", and it takes care of everything; I don't have to find the remote or worry about holding it in position for 10 seconds. Nor will I have to worry about batteries (my 550 sucks up AAA batteries like a fat kid with ice cream).
The Kinect IR blaster may not be directly related to gaming, but I guarantee it is something every Xbox One owner will appreciate, because it is something they will use every day. Even the hardest of the core gamer will appreciate not having to find 3 different remotes to get their gaming on.
That's the sort of functionality you only really get with a Harmony remote control--in fact, Microsoft hired one of the lead Harmony developers to work on this--and Harmony remotes retail for at least $60 or so. That feature alone provides nearly $60 of value (in as much as such value can be quantified.)
I own a Harmony 550 remote. It's the best $80 I ever spent on a gadget. As good as my Harmony 550 remote is, when I'm ready to watch something, I still have to pick up the remote, press the button and point it to my entertainment system for 10 seconds while it powers everything up. With the Kinect IR blaster, all I have to do is say "Xbox On", and it takes care of everything; I don't have to find the remote or worry about holding it in position for 10 seconds. Nor will I have to worry about batteries (my 550 sucks up AAA batteries like a fat kid with ice cream).
The Kinect IR blaster may not be directly related to gaming, but I guarantee it is something every Xbox One owner will appreciate, because it is something they will use every day. Even the hardest of the core gamer will appreciate not having to find 3 different remotes to get their gaming on.
SamuelSupreme
Banned
Could not have said it better myself. I'll side with the company that puts GAMING first and foremost for their GAMING console
Ozzykamikaze
Member
I see. Well, I think both sides are completely valid. You did enjoy it, so I'm sure you're not alone. I appreciate the clarification.
SwiftDeath
Member
Great post
It's going to be a crazy holiday season for sure
First Digital Foundry mash-up is going to be nutz
Man we are quite silly over our game machines
I love it so
Oddly enough the reason that I'll eventually get a 180 is because it's not a PS4. Sure, I preordered a PS4 because of their laser-like focus. They had their vision and intentions and they didn't falter and I'm going to reward them for that. But, and a lot of people will hate this, I always own every platform so I want MS to be different. I want them to make Kinect a focus. I want them to make a kickass media box. I want them to be something other than a weaker PS4 with smaller 1st party focus. I'm selfish. I'll admit that. Some people will only own a 180 and those people would probably burn me at the stake for saying this. But I'll have a 3DS, WiiU, PS4, PC and a 180 (Vita incoming too!). I want them all to offer me as much of a difference in experience as possible.
Again, yes, I'm being selfish.
ridethepiggy
Banned
My man. I was extremely anti- Xbone after the reveal. I have a PS4 preordered, Wii U sitting and collecting dust, a kick ass PC that gets most of all the multiplat releases, and yet I'm getting more excited for the Xbone every week. There are going to be amazing games released for all platforms. While the PC and PS4 will most likely get most of my attention this gen I'm expecting to be jealous more than a few times of Xbone owners too.
Ricerocket
Member
You shouldn't have to tell people straight up that you have better "value"... Value is something consumers get and know.
Look at Wii U. It is not worthy of a $300-$350 price tag for a device in 2013 and the sales show it.
Look at Wii U. It is not worthy of a $300-$350 price tag for a device in 2013 and the sales show it.
I never get the sense that they're talking to consumers. It always comes across like an out-of-touch exec who's reciting rehearsed PR buzz words.
Night_Trekker
Member
I remember when this shit was being said about the PS3 when it was having a hard time selling. It was hilarious then and it's hilarious now.
Exactly so. And even if your product is a "great value" for the price, it's possible consumers just don't care. Perceived value is more important than actual value.
Exactly so. And even if your product is a "great value" for the price, it's possible consumers just don't care. Perceived value is more important than actual value.
They're trying to appease the ruffled shareholders maybe? I don't know. They have a complete disconnect this generation when it comes to talking to customers.
Consider the audience. He was speaking at the Citi Global Technology Conference; his audience was a bunch of bankers, investors and other well-heeled businessmen. That's the kind of language they understand, which is why a guy like Yusuf Mehdi speaks there.
Speedy Blue Dude
Banned
Well... they can't really say "Our console is better."
They can't say "Our console is more powerful", because it simply isn't true. They can't say "Our console has better games" (even though they already have) because that's opinion based. Can't say "Our console is the best purchase" because it IS more expensive.
Same, I think once we all get our hands on the new interface with kinect it going to surprise alot of us. Also games part is TRUE which is why im getting xboxone 1st.
But at least the Blu ray player-functionality was ACTUALLY value compared to its competitors.
I really dont see how the XBone is more value than the PS4.
Chobel
Member
Actually they did say that, Phil Harrison has said that the Xbox One launch games is the best "in the history of consoles". And they always brag about the number of awards that Xbox one games got.
Just in this article
Indeed. See also the ps3 launch.
I agree about the interface but I don't know about the games part. Mainly because it all comes down to preference. There are a lot of cool games on both sides. Sony also has a lot of F2P games going for them so you could technically look at those like free games for launch. With all due respect, naturally. I would never try to tell you what you should be into. Just saying that both launches have enough to keep a gamer busy.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
We're done here.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
Because it's only better if your needs and wants are aligned with what MS is offering. That's the proposition side of it.
Speedy Blue Dude
Banned
I know.
Like I said "(even though they already have)", I saw the "THE BEST GAMES ARE ON XBOX ONE" video they made, I thought it was pretty damn silly. Which console has the better line up is all opinion base, and I don't think either company should brag about it, but I know they will (and almost have to).In my opinion, if you can't see any justification for Xbox One's higher price, it's because you don't want to see it. I think Microsoft has done a good job justifying Xbox One's higher pricetag.
I see PS4 as little more than a PS3 with better graphics and new social features. There's nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't excite me.
I see PS4 as little more than a PS3 with better graphics and new social features. There's nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't excite me.
BleachAndPepsi
Banned
But they're over-delivering on value!
That's unfairly reductive. I could say the Xbone is a weaker PS4 with a gimmicky camera shoved down your throat to convince you that imprecise, lagged, arm waving motions are somehow more immersive and convenient than simply tapping a button.
But I wouldn't do that.
Hmmmm......
Wuthering_Heights
Banned
$100 more for a weaker console and a required gold subscription to access most everything.
Yep, that added value.
Yep, that added value.