Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn |OT3| LFT Full Relic and DL Required

Status
Not open for further replies.
PvP and Housing may be fucked but I'm glad they're at least in the game at this point so they can start taking feedback. The team so far has been pretty slow to implement content to begin with but not bad at making highly requested changes.

PvP "beta" was a joke really, so now that it's out in the wild hopefully people are vocal about the changes they want to see instead of just complaining in a vacuum.
 
PVP, could in theory improve fairly quickly, IF they can do monthly balancing patches. It probably won't be anywhere near perfect for a long time, but I'll take improvement in the mean-time.

For example, in regards to Sleep being over powered. Well in theory something like that can be taken care of simply by either reducing the duration, or by dramatically increasing the cast-time. That's not a major change, and since PVP doesn't affect anything else in the game it should be fairly easy to implement.

Will a couple simple changes like that fix things? No, probably not, I imagine another balancing issue would pop up afterward. If they're making those sorts of changes on a monthly basis though, the experience should steadily improve.

I'm not really worried about people not participating though. The PVP items are too attractive in certain regards, and there'll probably be a number of people willing to put up with unbalanced PVP to get them. The real question, is if they can improve it fast enough, and dramatically enough, to appeal to a wider portion of the game audience in general.

I think it's certainly possible for them to do that. They just, have to listen to player feedback, and implement changes in a timely manner, even if they're only subtle adjustments.


Edit: I realize a lot of my posts may sound like I'm going out of my way to defend the game, and in a certain respect that is true. I have a bit of a, devil's advocate impulse, and often times in places like videogame forums, that ends up turning into automatic defense of the publisher/developer. In most cases, I actually agree with most of the complaints being made, but it's hard for me not try inserting a bit of equal time into these sorts of things.
 
WolvenOne said:
For example, in regards to Sleep being over powered. Well in theory something like that can be taken care of simply by either reducing the duration, or by dramatically increasing the cast-time. That's not a major change, and since PVP doesn't affect anything else in the game it should be fairly easy to implement.
Click to expand...

You really must stop saying this. It's already not true.
 
Kintaro said:
You really must stop saying this. It's already not true.
Click to expand...

How would it?

How would combat mechanics in PVP effect PVE mechanics? They're already making some changes to the mechanics just for PVP, if the mechanics are already seperated, what difference does further changing the PVP mechanics make?

I mean, sure it might affect the desirability of PVP, which would affect the number of people doing it, and therefore change markets, but other then that...
 
I'm not fond of PvE being affected at all due to PvP changes.

The Rain of Death and Virus changes were very clear changes done specifically for this reason. I would have preferred standard skills getting secondary effects or potencies for PvP on top of the brand new ones.

I enjoy PvE and not much else, but I'll give PvP a shot. I'm no stranger to it, but I've been getting messages from FC mates that Purify basically makes Sleep a non issue since they'll get slept, break it then just beat the shit out of the BLM immediately afterwards. Beats me, it's early in PvP so we'll see.
 
WolvenOne said:
How would it?

How would combat mechanics in PVP effect PVE mechanics? They're already making some changes to the mechanics just for PVP, if the mechanics are already seperated, what difference does further changing the PVP mechanics make?

I mean, sure it might affect the desirability of PVP, which would affect the number of people doing it, and therefore change markets, but other then that...
Click to expand...

Pls. Just stop.

Studyguy, rain of death was changed and given To warrior because bards had way too much utility. Virus got nerfed because it was too good being able to debuff bosses the way it was before, both of these changes were purely for PvE.
 
studyguy said:
I'm not fond of PvE being affected at all due to PvP changes.

The Rain of Death and Virus changes were very clear changes done specifically for this reason. I would have preferred standard skills getting secondary effects or potencies for PvP on top of the brand new ones.

I enjoy PvE and not much else, but I'll give PvP a shot. I'm no stranger to it, but I've been getting messages from FC mates that Purify basically makes Sleep a non issue since they'll get slept, break it then just beat the shit out of the BLM immediately afterwards. Beats me, it's early in PvP so we'll see.
Click to expand...

Ah, people already found a countermeasure then? That's good, hopefully it's not as broken as some people seem to think, hopefully. *Knocks on wood.*

I don't really see myself getting into PVP either, but it would be nice as an occasional distraction during a slow week. I hadn't realized they made some changes to the PVE mechanics for PvP. I don't really understand that, since it sounds like some PvP mechanics only take affect during PvP.

Well, either way. I still think monthly balancing would be the best way to handle these sorts of things.
 
WolvenOne said:
Ah, people already found a countermeasure then? That's good, hopefully it's not as broken as some people seem to think, hopefully. *Knocks on wood.*

I don't really see myself getting into PVP either, but it would be nice as an occasional distraction during a slow week. I hadn't realized they made some changes to the PVE mechanics for PvP. I don't really understand that, since it sounds like some PvP mechanics only take affect during PvP.

Well, either way. I still think monthly balancing would be the best way to handle these sorts of things.
Click to expand...

I severely doubt SE and YoshiP work with the concept of monthly anything. For whatever reason, even since 1.0, they've been about releasing large fixes per patch. They'll of course stealth fix a few more egregious issues, but otherwise will leave us hanging till we get to the next patch.

Also yes, the Rain of Death effect was changed to EVA down instead of DEF down, more than likely for PvP balance (and of course to boost WAR prevalence since they were given the DEF down effect). I find it extremely unfortunate that SE decided to just bump skills up or down for PvP, but honestly they were nowhere near as invasive in their PvE/PvP balancing than some other games I've seen.

It could have been much, much worse without the inclusion of PvP skills. Frankly I'm okay with the way skills stands now, they could use more balancing, but then again I doubt they did much balancing testing outside of their inhouse QA so we'll see where things go.
 
WolvenOne said:
Ah, people already found a countermeasure then? That's good, hopefully it's not as broken as some people seem to think, hopefully. *Knocks on wood.*
Click to expand...

That's not how it works. A single ability with longer cooldown to cancel out one instance of Sleep, which doesn't have cooldown, doesn't win games.

You can still Sleep them immediately after (though with DR), or just switch targets and Sleep someone else while it's on cooldown. Or Sleep the person with the ability.

It's not a 1v1 match. You're not going to break the Sleep and then destroy the Black Mage in the 2 seconds it takes for them to cast another Sleep on someone else or on you. Especially with the position update issues, proper LoS tactics, and Sprint.

It is just one of many issues anyway. CC is fine. Full length CC not so fine.
What I find equally ridiculous is that ANY damage completely interrupts spell casting. Not set it back so the cast time is longer, but complete 100% interrupt stop if you even get touched.

Bards will be highly desired. LoS play will be more important than anything else here.

It's just so many things about this tells us this is a hack job at making PvP. Which is whatever I guess. It's fine if the game is just a PvE focused game. I like both but I don't need all my games to have both. If you're going to do a lazy job with PvP, I would rather those resources just go to making more PvE content.
Still, it's super early and this is all just speculation based on text and first day play. How it will play out in real gameplay two months from now may be different.
 
Isaccard said:
Pls. Just stop.

Studyguy, rain of death was changed and given To warrior because bards had way too much utility. Virus got nerfed because it was too good being able to debuff bosses the way it was before, both of these changes were purely for PvE.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the changes to RoD and Virus basically amount to a stealth buff for endgame PvE encounters. I believe primarily they are trying to show down the rate at which Twintania is being killed because there is no content after Twintania for another 3+ months.

The changes to who gets Thunder, the nerfing down of Blizzard II and Scathe, the unnecessary changes to pet behavior, the massive buffing of MNK, those all smell of changes for PvP that are messing with PvE. SMNs got fucked, they lost a ton of DPS and their pets are harder to manage in PvE and they weren't even top DPS in the first place.
 
Isaccard said:
Studyguy, rain of death was changed and given To warrior because bards had way too much utility. Virus got nerfed because it was too good being able to debuff bosses the way it was before, both of these changes were purely for PvE.
Click to expand...

I simply disagree.
The utility of Bard is it's entire role as a support. As it stands now, we have Bards having no utility outside the simple song regens. Where Rain of Death added on to their support role, EVA down assists no one in PvE going by popular trends for building a class. It is a very clear use for PvP as that's the only place were even heavy ACC won't assure you 100% hit rates.

WAR getting DEF down seems like it's just SE strongarming us into using the class which frankly I don't appreciate in the slightest. I get it was unappealing and that Bard needed rebalancing, but to outright hit Rain of Death with an effect that makes it useless outside of anything other than the proc for damage is silly. Utility is Bard's job, EVA down helps no one outside of PvP and that is a simple fact when everyone and their mother stats to have 100% ACC in PvE.
 
If I was an executive is be pretty pissed at these housing changes. All this time and money spend on creating all that furniture and implementing the feature and maybe 0.1% of players will see it.

That's time they could have been spending on other features that could be enjoyed by waaaaaay more people.
 
Okay, quick question then.

1st: How Difficult is it to get PVP materia? I realize that few people have it yet, but a rough guestimate is fine.

2nd: How many Sleep Resistence +2 buffs would you need, to render yourself highly resistant to Sleep? If all you need is 2-3 pieces of Funguar Shriek Materia I, and attaining this materia isn't particularly difficult, (two big ifs I know,) then I could easily see Sleep being mostly mitigated, as a useful spell, in some weeks time.

Again, this is mostly curiosity at this point. Even if it does balance things out, the fact that players would have to jump through these kinds of hurdles to mitigate the effectiveness of one class, "is," a problem.
 
Unknown Soldier said:
Yeah, the changes to RoD and Virus basically amount to a stealth buff for endgame PvE encounters. I believe primarily they are trying to show down the rate at which Twintania is being killed because there is no content after Twintania for another 3+ months.

The changes to who gets Thunder, the nerfing down of Blizzard II and Scathe, the unnecessary changes to pet behavior, the massive buffing of MNK, those all smell of changes for PvP that are messing with PvE. SMNs got fucked, they lost a ton of DPS and their pets are harder to manage in PvE and they weren't even top DPS in the first place.
Click to expand...

Eh. I think people are way over exaggerating the loss of Thunder for summoner. YoshiP's said that even without it they were still the top DPS. The buffs to the melee classes were meant to bring them in line with the caster classes. He chose to take away Thunder than nerf summoners dots. Pretty fair change I'd say, I never used thunder in my summoner rotation personally but /shrug

I think they went a little overboard buffing monk though. Greases lightning didint need a buff.
 
WolvenOne said:
Okay, quick question then.

1st: How Difficult is it to get PVP materia? I realize that few people have it yet, but a rough guestimate is fine.

2nd: How many Sleep Resistence +2 buffs would you need, to render yourself highly resistant to Sleep? If all you need is 2-3 pieces of Funguar Shriek Materia I, and attaining this materia isn't particularly difficult, (two big ifs I know,) then I could easily see Sleep being mostly mitigated, as a useful spell, in some weeks time.

Again, this is mostly curiosity at this point. Even if it does balance things out, the fact that players would have to jump through these kinds of hurdles to mitigate the effectiveness of one class, "is," a problem.
Click to expand...

1. Not easy. It's something around 1400 and you get 50 marks for a win. It's going to be a very long time before anyone gets a full set of i90 PVP gear, but holy hell they are going to be living gods in the frontlines. Even my horrible i55 pvp stuff outdamages my relics and that's a mere 170 morale.

2. I have no idea. There's food with sleep resist but it's made from shark oil, and that's expensive.
 
Isaccard said:
Eh. I think people are way over exaggerating the loss of Thunder for summoner. YoshiP's said that even without it they were still the top DPS. The buffs to the melee classes were meant to bring them in line with the caster classes. He chose to take away Thunder than nerf summoners dots. Pretty fair change I'd say, I never used thunder in my summoner rotation personally but /shrug

I think they went a little overboard buffing monk though. Greases lightning didint need a buff.
Click to expand...

SMN DPS is monstrous all the same with or without Thunder.
MNK needed the back attacks fixed and nothing else. The DPS checks I've been hearing from FC monks is absurd since the updates.
 
WolvenOne said:
Okay, quick question then.

1st: How Difficult is it to get PVP materia? I realize that few people have it yet, but a rough guestimate is fine.

2nd: How many Sleep Resistence +2 buffs would you need, to render yourself highly resistant to Sleep? If all you need is 2-3 pieces of Funguar Shriek Materia I, and attaining this materia isn't particularly difficult, (two big ifs I know,) then I could easily see Sleep being mostly mitigated, as a useful spell, in some weeks time.

Again, this is mostly curiosity at this point. Even if it does balance things out, the fact that players would have to jump through these kinds of hurdles to mitigate the effectiveness of one class, "is," a problem.
Click to expand...

It's not really about the mitigation. It should be better once you have the gear but the base is still too much. Full duration sleep is just too much and no one has fun sitting there for 30 + 15 + 8 seconds.

For a comparison, in another game, CC abilities (no matter how long they last in PvE) last a maximum of 8 seconds and is halved each application. And even then it can be pretty bad if you don't have your trinket available at the right time to break it.

What concerns me isn't so much Sleep itself. There's no way they won't fix it. It is just that no one at Square looked at a 30 second CC in PvP and said, "We can't do this." That tells you a lot about their PvP designers and what kind of experience they have.
 
Mupod said:
1. Not easy. It's something around 1400 and you get 50 marks for a win. It's going to be a very long time before anyone gets a full set of i90 PVP gear, but holy hell they are going to be living gods in the frontlines. Even my horrible i55 pvp stuff outdamages my relics and that's a mere 170 morale.

2. I have no idea. There's food with sleep resist but it's made from shark oil, and that's expensive.
Click to expand...

Mmm, so, it may very well be that there are elements of PvP out there that can offset these balancing issues, but they're buried too deep into the sub-game to be reached in a timely manner.

Seems like a mighty big opps, if you ask me. Not sure what the simplest fix would be though. Granted, I'm probably the last person to ask about PvP fixes anyway. XD
 
Valus said:
I thought it was established that SMNs were the best when it came to single target DPS in 2.0? If it wasn't them, then who?
Click to expand...

For short fights where the boss doesn't move much, MNK was already tops in DPS and this buff makes them OP. For short fights where the boss has jump or teleport mechanics, BLM is tops because BLM doesn't depend on DoTs which break when the boss teleports or jumps.

The single case where SMN was top DPS was when the boss didn't move and had no teleport or jumps. Then the steady damage from SMN's Shadowflare and DoTs prevailed.

And now Squenix took away Thunder, one of SMN's DoTs.

BLM are of course the Lord and Master of AoE DPS. The nerf to Blizzard II doesn't change that for PvE, but not being able to draw people into its range, Swiftcast, and then Blizzard II them to death while they are helplessly bound smells to me like that nerf was for PvP, as was Scathe's nerf.
 
Unknown Soldier said:
Yeah, the changes to RoD and Virus basically amount to a stealth buff for endgame PvE encounters. I believe primarily they are trying to show down the rate at which Twintania is being killed because there is no content after Twintania for another 3+ months.

The changes to who gets Thunder, the nerfing down of Blizzard II and Scathe, the unnecessary changes to pet behavior, the massive buffing of MNK, those all smell of changes for PvP that are messing with PvE. SMNs got fucked, they lost a ton of DPS and their pets are harder to manage in PvE and they weren't even top DPS in the first place.
Click to expand...

Summoner is top dps without a doubt. Maybe monk will be tops but I doubt it since they have to so so much dancing while they dps.

Unknown Soldier said:
For short fights where the boss doesn't move much, MNK was already tops in DPS and this buff makes them OP. For short fights where the boss has jump or teleport mechanics, BLM is tops because BLM doesn't depend on DoTs which break when the boss teleports or jumps.

The single case where SMN was top DPS was when the boss didn't move and had no teleport or jumps. Then the steady damage from SMN's Shadowflare and DoTs prevailed.

And now Squenix took away Thunder, one of SMN's DoTs.

BLM are of course the Lord and Master of AoE DPS. The nerf to Blizzard II doesn't change that for PvE, but not being able to draw people into its range, Swiftcast, and then Blizzard II them to death while they are helplessly bound smells to me like that nerf was for PvP, as was Scathe's nerf.
Click to expand...

So you agree summoner is top dps in most cases then and in ALL of coil which is where you need to be the best of the best.
 
frequency said:
It's not really about the mitigation. It should be better once you have the gear but the base is still too much. Full duration sleep is just too much and no one has fun sitting there for 30 + 15 + 8 seconds.

For a comparison, in another game, CC abilities (no matter how long they last in PvE) last a maximum of 8 seconds and is halved each application. And even then it can be pretty bad if you don't have your trinket available at the right time to break it.

What concerns me isn't so much Sleep itself. There's no way they won't fix it. It is just that no one at Square looked at a 30 second CC in PvP and said, "we can't do this." That tells you a lot about their PvP designers and what kind of experience they have.
Click to expand...

Oh, I totally believe they're inexperienced, and that it's a problem. That said, if they listen to the community they should improve at a decent pace. Also a big if, but they've seemed fairly willing to listen to community feedback in the past, and that is somewhat encouraging.

After all, they may not have PvP experience, but as a whole the community will. So, as long as they listen, it should get better.
 
Yes, I realize I'm posting too much. I hardly got to play last night, and I've been working all day. The itch to dive in and try out the new WAR class, in a fight where I might actually struggle, is driving me crazy.

Talking about the game at least, keeps it from getting too bad. XD
 
Mupod said:
1. Not easy. It's something around 1400 and you get 50 marks for a win. It's going to be a very long time before anyone gets a full set of i90 PVP gear, but holy hell they are going to be living gods in the frontlines. Even my horrible i55 pvp stuff outdamages my relics and that's a mere 170 morale
Click to expand...

Sounds to me like Tera and it's Real Gear Check Combat. No lessons learned there either.
 
WolvenOne said:
Oh, I totally believe they're inexperienced, and that it's a problem. That said, if they listen to the community they should improve at a decent pace. Also a big if, but they've seemed fairly willing to listen to community feedback in the past, and that is somewhat encouraging.

After all, they may not have PvP experience, but as a whole the community will. So, as long as they listen, it should get better.
Click to expand...

Indeed.


I feel like I need to state it one last time:
The game that currently has what I consider to be the best PvP started out poorly too. It took an expansion just to start becoming something worthwhile and even more expansions to actually become the best.

They started with no experience too.


Though I do feel that at this point, they probably should have put PvP on hold and used those resources to make more high end PvE content for the people who've already done it all and now have to sit and wait another however many months with lesser content until the next patch.

But I guess that's not realistic. They probably started work on this a long time ago before they realized how fast people were burning through content.
 
studyguy said:
I simply disagree.
The utility of Bard is it's entire role as a support. As it stands now, we have Bards having no utility outside the simple song regens. Where Rain of Death added on to their support role, EVA down assists no one in PvE going by popular trends for building a class. It is a very clear use for PvP as that's the only place were even heavy ACC won't assure you 100% hit rates.

WAR getting DEF down seems like it's just SE strongarming us into using the class which frankly I don't appreciate in the slightest. I get it was unappealing and that Bard needed rebalancing, but to outright hit Rain of Death with an effect that makes it useless outside of anything other than the proc for damage is silly. Utility is Bard's job, EVA down helps no one outside of PvP and that is a simple fact when everyone and their mother stats to have 100% ACC in PvE.
Click to expand...

You're missing the fact BRD has the most reliable and fast Silence in the game. Add that to the MP regen and elemental dmg songs and you still have one of the most (or the most) useful class/job in the entire game while still packing a nice punch in DPS.

Giving both tanks a dmg mitigation debuff was only fair.
 
I want to say I like the new Obey, and Selene is pretty good about rotating her two buffs now so one is always up without me needing to do anything. But the fairy AI for Embrace seems flakier, I kinda have to maintain her all the time now (even in 4 mans) where I used to be able to let her do her own thing when it wasn't an 8 man. So it's kinda eh.
 
Ultima down. \o/
taA5ld0.jpg

wh9VeU7.jpg
Click to expand...
 
frequency said:
Indeed.


I feel like I need to state it one last time:
The game that currently has what I consider to be the best PvP started out poorly too. It took an expansion just to start becoming something worthwhile and even more expansions to actually become the best.

They started with no experience too.


Though I do feel that at this point, they probably should have put PvP on hold and used those resources to make more high end PvE content for the people who've already done it all and now have to sit and wait another however many months with lesser content until the next patch.

But I guess that's not realistic. They probably started work on this a long time ago before they realized how fast people were burning through content.
Click to expand...

*Nods*

I seem to recall that they originally wanted PvP available at launch, they probably delayed it after getting feedback during the Beta.

A lot of 2.1 content is like that. What isn't a feature or area delayed from launch, is remixed 2.0 content, and what isn't remixed 2.1 content amounts to either a small feature, a UI fix, or changes to the server. Not that I don't appreciate it, but if I had to guess, they were probably mostly done with the content portions awhile ago, and mostly holding off the update so they could make changes to how the servers operated.

2.2 is going to be the first update, where the vast bulk of the content was created entirely or mostly after 2.0 launched. Thankfully, 2.1 does add a lot to the table, and will be enough to at least keep myself satisfied till February or March. I just hope the population remains stable. It should, but I really do hate seeing familiar faces disappear.
 
I'm loving these Duty Roulettes. Got AK and got 70 myths in the end.

AK is so much easier too, but a pity about the drops being the same as WP. I was lucky that I got the Hoplite top just before 2.1 hit.
 
AlphaDragoon said:
Yeah, to Copperbell/Haukke HM.

It kills me that I'm at work instead of destroying things with my newly buffed Monk. Goddamn do they deal now.
Click to expand...

Guess that means I should level Monk, THEN Dragoon. They'll probably Nerf Monk a little in 2.2, but that'll still give me a few months to utilize the class.

Besides, I'll probably have both at 50 before then. It sounds like there's a LOT more incentive to level additional classes now.
 
Relaxed Muscle said:
You're missing the fact BRD has the most reliable and fast Silence in the game. Add that to the MP regen and elemental dmg songs and you still have one of the most (or the most) useful class/job in the entire game while still packing a nice punch in DPS.

Giving both tanks a dmg mitigation debuff was only fair.
Click to expand...

Their silence is rather moot in the face of Spirits Within, granted it has a half second wind up, but nothing is ever so dire that it can't work on its own. The problem is that you form redundancies between the two tanks. PLD had the STR down combo already. WAR had the SLASH RESIST down which helps both tanks. No one notices since no one bothers to use PLD/WAR combos. Now we have two tanks with two redundant skills that basically end at the same effect... big whoop.

No one is arguing against the utility of the songs, but since 1.0, YoshiP has continually marginalized BRDs into a weird corner where they should be support and even then they don't do much beyond sing songs in 90% of the encounters. Getting relegated to what is essentially the XI equivalent of a Refresh bitch is an insult. The people saying the EVA debuff is fine are as out of touch with the way the community builds as SE is if they thought it'd help outside anything but PvP.

Reknoc said:
Not pictured: Rad Jiggling

Shout outs to Ravi for good rolls
Click to expand...

Cool, didn't notice we got a slime pet.
 
Lol. Waiting for the day hybrid roles get introduced and BRD is retconned into it.

Also going to echo that MNK buffs make little sense; they are definitely top-of-the-line DPS on fights where the enemies are stationary. I'm guessing LCD monks who can't manage their rotations are getting bailed out here. I'm not sure this is even going to help monks at endgame all that much.
 
studyguy said:
Did they? Maybe I'm blanking. I only recall the flan.
Honestly I don't think I've run AV since 1.0, there hasn't been a need in ARR.
Click to expand...

I might be thinking of the Flan as well. And I don't blame you about Aurum Vale. Such a shame that all of us are eventually going to be dumped in there during a Roulette. XD
 
studyguy said:
Did they? Maybe I'm blanking. I only recall the flan.
Honestly I don't think I've run AV since 1.0, there hasn't been a need in ARR.
Click to expand...

I think the flan was from 2.0 and the slime from 2.1. Slime are nondescript blobs.


Whats the best way to use Spirits Within silence effect? Back up quick stun for simple magic spells? Or are there some casts that cant be stunned and thats where it comes in? Because it lasts for like 2 seconds (think I asked this before, but I forget the answer).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

  • Locked
Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward |OT3| Keniki Gauge Cost: 20,000
53 54 55 56 57
3K
211K
studyguy replied
Final Fantasy XIV: Stormblood |OT2| Y'all Need to Calm Down (Ultimate)
5 6 7 8 9
415
91K
YukiOnna replied
Final Fantasy XIV: Stormblood |OT| Y'all Need to Calm Down
397 398 399 400 401
20K
2M
Meccs replied
FireWall Zero Hour |OT| VR Group Sex With Optional Toys Required
22
4K
Bullet Club replied
Destiny 2 |OT3| The Token King
120 121 122 123 124
6K
635K
Breakfast at Noon replied
Top Bottom