Topher
Identifies as young
I believe the number grew to 34 million. The number reported prior to that was never higher than 25 million.
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Christopher dring 'clarifies' his stance on gamepass.
- Thread starter Sebastian1295
- Start date
I believe the number grew to 34 million. The number reported prior to that was never higher than 25 million.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
With all these subscriptions there is a phase where you spend a ton of money trying to pull in new customers - giving out free trials, low priced subscriptions, while simultaneously investing heavily in content.
At a certain point you have both - enough subscribers to cover reasonable costs and most of your subcribers are 'sticky'. They have been paying and using the service for years. At that point you start closing off low cost access, close loopholes, and can start increasing prices while maintaining or pulling back on the amount you are spending on new content.
I dont think gamepass had reached that point but MS decided to flip the switch anyway. They have had a great run of content recently - but I can see myself canceling if they have a dry spell. Not like I dont have a 600 odd game library spread across Steam, Epic, GoG etc.
KungFucius
King Snowflake
Drink and smoke a little. I read it as, Gamepass doesn't lose money, but now they they can also sell on PS5/Switch2 they are gonna make some real money off those non PC owning, weirdos.What the actual fuck is he talking about in this word salad mess? It literally gave me a headache reading it because it's so convoluted.
Which tiers are we talking? This gamepass conversation is somewhat meaningless with that context, and is actually doing a lot of marketing for Microsoft.
A casual reader would have no idea they even exist. Im sorry but enough is enough.
Topher
Identifies as young
Enough is enough? No idea what you are talking about. Follow the conversation and it is clear…
My bad Topher. Im just tired of how inherently misleading and disingenuous Microsoft is about everything.
Topher
Identifies as young
I hear ya man
I think the first party budgets are no longer handicapped simply from the change in strategy to release on other platforms like PS. This strategy seems to have come from a major u-turn after gamepass did not achieve the target growth that they estimated even after those acquisitions. They estimated far more subscribers and expected to be able to cover the development cost of those games from gamepass users alone. Remember the old "deliver exclusive games on platforms where gamepass is available"? That didn't pan out. They pivoted and released everywhere and are now doing OK because they are less reliant on their own platforms (gamepass or xbox) to keep those first party studios in the black.
Klayzer
Member
No profits, no games. Super fucking simple.I don't know. Maybe ask a fan of games/franchises developed by Rare, Arkane, Tango Gameworks, Alpha Dog, Turn 10, The Initiative......
Cakeboxer
Member
Xbox is dead and everybody knows it, the ecosystem to invest in and benefit from Game Pass is the pc. You can't even buy a Series X in many stores in Europe anymore and for the rrp it's even harder to find. Nobody in his right midn would invest in Xbox at this point.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
This is so stupid lol.
Imagine a product that increases its loses with each new unit sold / subscriber gained. So the more it grows in numbers, the bigger the loss is. (Sidebar Example: One my local electric company is like this. Their loss increases with each unit provided because of electricity theft and line losses, so they do a lot of power cuts every day, and try to get their profits by reducing variable cost and relying on fixed revenue sources)
And then to call 'growth' the only metric that matters - and not profitability.
Absolute dogshit stupid take.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
TBH, that's the only thing that makes a little bit of sense, because GP PC is also quite cheaper.
Assuming you already have a PC, sub for a month or two when a big game drops, play it, and drop the sub. You can do that as long as GP PC exists at a good monthly rate.
But if anyone is spending money to get a new Xbox console at this stage, paying for XBLG (GP Core) or GPU or (God forbid!) buying digital games for the Xbox console at this point ... that's financially stupid (to put it in very mild terms).
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Cakeboxer
Member
Microsoft won't drop GP overnight, they still allow you to stack more than 30 months so i think it would make more sense to stack GPU for ~7 Euro/month with the core or EA Play conversion trick. Thats' not even a burger.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Clarify?
Astray
Member
>.. Even when you factor in the lost sales..
>.. Even when..
Meaning that they currently don't, and my hypothesis on how 1P studios get fucked over by the Xbox management team to make Gamepass look profitable is correct.
Dring just basically confirmed what we thought in the other thread, but made it look like he didn't because he's a cuck who fears Twitter angry replies.
They count costs of 3P acquisition (e.g. money paid to Sandfall for E33 day 1) and a few other costs like bandwidth, marketing etc.
The singular biggest cost though is the "licensing" of 1P and the cannibalization it causes to their 1P sales, and that is completely absent in their accounting, and even when it is, they don't actually "pay" that amount to the Studios to make their individual P/L whole again. No, they just replace millions in launch sales with GP pennies and then act like the studios are loss-making and need to close asap
Retarded management.
I reverse the question. Why a consumer shouldn't care if a service it's not profitable?
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
This is a statement from someone who doesnt work from MS, you can't extrapolate anything from the wording this person uses.
Yeah, absolutely. I don't think ive once been concerned on if Netflix or Disney + makes money and is profitable. It's a service I pay for, not mine or anyones outside of those directly working at MS and the businesses that could be affected.
If im a third party dev and I am being paid what I agreed to be on gamepass. They shouldnt worry either.
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Why not? It can affect the cost and a consumer should care about it. The hell of ignorant idiocy is such attitude. Furthermore if Gamepass was a success surely you won't see all the shitness it's happening around the xbox. They can say whatever they want but even IF profitable in what measure? They are so vague and their strategies suggested they blatantly lies in some way.
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I don't think I understand. Surely, as a consumer, you should care about what something costs. If it goes up in price, it goes up in price and you decide if you want to pay that premium for what the service provides?
Why would I care about anything else?
Define anything else. Why people care if xbox sell or software sell? Isn't it the same logic? We shouldn't care because it hurts too much? Because I suspect so.
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Because there are so many intricate details that a business thinks about when looking at a service. It took years for Netflix to be profitable. What was Netfilx's goal? to cement itself as the most known streaming service available.
What was Netflix's business plan? what is microsofts - Is it a 20 year roadmap and plan? Why would I spend anytime worrying or being concerned about their profitability right now or in the future? I have enough stuff in my own life to think about. I am not going to worry about some companies service that does nothing more than provide me entertainment.
Now, if this service was such an amazing deal and it was for something like my medical expenses, including medication...then I might understand. But, for anything else.....it seems completely crazy to me.
Do you subscribe to GamePass, and you are worried the service might go away if it is not profitable?
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Netflix is not gamepass. Still I don't follow your logic. It surely will affect your life of consumer if gamepass not provide profit to the company as if a game a bomb. If you won't care, sure whatever, but try to convince the other to not care for what reasons exactly?
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Bumblebeetuna
Member
As long as it's anti-Xbox anyway
Damn, GamePass is dead #8,338 was so close to happening.
Wow. People still believe to what MS said about the matter. I mean he practically reported what they said to tell without any details. Why to be always so vague about the entity of the profit/costs about Gamepass I'm asking.As long as it's anti-Xbox anyway
Damn, GamePass is dead #8,338 was so close to happening.
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PropellerEar
Member
Lets take something like Lukoil, there are hundreds of gas stations in EU that sell Lukoil fuel or are some kind of subsidiary of Lukoil.
Is it cheaper? Probably.
Is it funding Putin? Probably.
MSFT as bad as Putin?
Should i care as a customer?
You should but you are not forced to anyone. Said that people are free to live in the ignorance. But it's not like they are the smarter ones eh.Lets take something like Lukoil, there are hundreds of gas stations in EU that sell Lukoil fuel or are some kind of subsidiary of Lukoil.
Is it cheaper? Probably.
Is it funding Putin? Probably.
MSFT as bad as Putin?
Should i care as a customer?
Baemono
Member
It's dead alright, Dring was just told it was in the coma, and then clarified there is still a beep so it's technically still alive, despite the family preparing documentation to give organs to othersAs long as it's anti-Xbox anyway
Damn, GamePass is dead #8,338 was so close to happening.
PropellerEar
Member
Gamepass is like a huge moster Godzilla sized leech, sucking the lifeblood of the 1st party Studios.
- Don't do anything about the leech is so nice and big, very productive parasite that we all love and cherish.
- Instead these lazy and unproductive Studios should produce more lifeblood to make this grand leech even bigger and more profitable!
- Don't do anything about the leech is so nice and big, very productive parasite that we all love and cherish.
- Instead these lazy and unproductive Studios should produce more lifeblood to make this grand leech even bigger and more profitable!
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Bumblebeetuna
Member
#8,339 in motion I see
foamdino
Member
The whole "why should I care" question is interesting. As an individual (not an investor) consumer - I get why people would think this, after all it's "consumer friendly" to get access to games "cheap".
The problem comes from when your cheap access to games leads to damaging the industry to the point where no new good games are being created.
There is enough evidence to suggest that the plan was to try and get Sony/Nintendo to try the same idea, knowing that MS could outspend/sustain this model and drive the other into bankruptcy.
At that point - "why should I care" - well Microsoft would have salted the earth to gain control of the games industry while doing immeasurable cultural damage - that's why anyone interested in games as a hobby should care.
GamePass plays on short-term desires while trying to hide the long-term consequences.
This isn't to say that Nintendo ($80 games), or Sony (GAAS stupidity) are not also idiots this gen.
The problem comes from when your cheap access to games leads to damaging the industry to the point where no new good games are being created.
- MS said on record that gamepass cannibalises sales -> less sales == less $$ for studio == more chance that the studio folds/is shuttered
- Gamepass allocates $$ to studios based on "engagement"/hours played == perversely incentivising dark UX patterns, crappier games
- The idea was pushed that gamepass would allow studios to be more creative as they wouldn't be worried about the standard publishing pattern (which let's be clear is in need of a shake up as too many studios are 1 flop away from going under) - however this has not proven to be the case at all, the same types of games are being pushed via gamepass as used to be via sales (open world, awful souls-likes <grr hate those>, standard fps shooters etc) - where is all the extra creativity we were all told would come about??
- We've also seen that games as a whole simply do not sell on xbox - you would expect the sales to mirror the ratio of console sales, but in some cases games sell a fraction of a percent compared to on playstation - so the xbox consumer doesn't consume
There is enough evidence to suggest that the plan was to try and get Sony/Nintendo to try the same idea, knowing that MS could outspend/sustain this model and drive the other into bankruptcy.
At that point - "why should I care" - well Microsoft would have salted the earth to gain control of the games industry while doing immeasurable cultural damage - that's why anyone interested in games as a hobby should care.
GamePass plays on short-term desires while trying to hide the long-term consequences.
This isn't to say that Nintendo ($80 games), or Sony (GAAS stupidity) are not also idiots this gen.
Baemono
Member
No, that's the number of the Microsoft PR stunt that will bite them in the ass, like they always do. I still can't believe you fall for it like "well if they said it, it means it's true, they're not gonna lie"
PropellerEar
Member
GHG
Member
So what happens if the game doesn't manage to sell any copies and/or a reasonable amount of DLC microtransactions?
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
GHG
Member
The highest selling game of last year was propelled by Game Pass tho.
"propelled"?
It's the highest selling game every year.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
GHG
Member
It remained so and Game Pass remains profitable even accounting for the possibility of any lost revenue.
Well I'm glad COD can continue to survive under this model.
Shame about the rest.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Netflix is an entertainment streaming service that allows users to watch content. its the closest adjacent entertainment subscription service we have to compare to Gamepass in my opinion.
Lets take something like Lukoil, there are hundreds of gas stations in EU that sell Lukoil fuel or are some kind of subsidiary of Lukoil.
Is it cheaper? Probably.
Is it funding Putin? Probably.
MSFT as bad as Putin?
Should i care as a customer?
This is a wild comparison. I don't even know where to begin, and its definitely not something im going to be share on Gaf, where we try to avoid politics.
Kenneth Haight
Gold Member
You see thousands of people getting sacked for those absolute clowns such as Matt booty, Phil Spencer a win?It remained so and Game Pass remains profitable even accounting for the possibility of any lost revenue.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
You see thousands of people getting sacked for those absolute clowns such as Matt booty, Phil Spencer a win?
You think those people got sacked because of CoD or Game Pass?
Kenneth Haight
Gold Member
I think Microsoft buying them and then saying we are all one big happy family, mergers are great, we are the winning team etc etc. we are going to invest in these people is all bollocks.
The long and short is that this deal has been a shit show and people still championing it like yourself is embarrassing even if you're doing it ironically.
Xbox are an absolute embarrasment this generation.
Bumblebeetuna
Member
I'm not falling for anything, I couldn't care less if Microsoft profits from GamePass. I'm just quoting the other guy and agreeing with him about the sheep mentality people have here about this subject.
Good luck on trial #8,339 though.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
There's already way too many threads with the same talking points, it's kinda irrelevant to this topic imo. And, no, I don't think CoD or GP were responsible for these recent layoffs.
Everwild and Perfect Dark were projects in development for about the better parts of a decade with nothing to show, things like that area probably easier check-boxes to mark off when talking about cutting costs. Neither of them came out and had a chance to make any impact on GP anyway.