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1/4 Wrasslin' thread of Bret Hart, Hulk Hogan, and the new Monday Night Wars (lol)
- Thread starter Lost Fragment
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All you TNA guys need to get off your high horse.
TNA wasn't this hotbed indie scene previously and all I heard were people making fun of it before. The only difference now is a larger audience of people are making fun of it. Regardless of the old-timers Hogan is brining along, TNA apparently had several OLD timers to begin with. Even the biggest critics can't deny they appear to be making a genuine effort to actually make me care who they are.
AJ Styles is now the guy with Ric Flair. Previously the guy was a jobber.
TNA wasn't this hotbed indie scene previously and all I heard were people making fun of it before. The only difference now is a larger audience of people are making fun of it. Regardless of the old-timers Hogan is brining along, TNA apparently had several OLD timers to begin with. Even the biggest critics can't deny they appear to be making a genuine effort to actually make me care who they are.
AJ Styles is now the guy with Ric Flair. Previously the guy was a jobber.
Net_Wrecker
Member
Sanjuro Tsubaki said:
AJ Styles, before Ric Flair came along, was a jobber....
ok
Alex Anderson
Member
Net_Wrecker said:
It's best not to take anything Sanjuro says too seriously I've found
Well in this case semi serious. Why should I know who he is? Simple fact is I don't and many others don't either.Alex Anderson said:
The highlight of my TNA experience was telling some guy he looked like Macho Man in a bathroom in a bar/arcade as he yanked down his trunks to piss. He replied "OOH YEAH!"
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
Fersis said:
Was trying so hard to work in him keeping down younger talent but that was such a cool thing to do that I can't manage it... Is great to see someone of his standing go out of his way for a fan like that.
abstract alien
Member
You know, I am now a HHH fan. Also, Jesus Punk is pretty awesome.Fersis said:
Net_Wrecker
Member
I really hope this CM Jesus thing turns into a Straightedge Society stable or something. I don't think there's been a real stable since The Spirit Squad, and Lord knows they sucked.
British Monsoon
Member
Sanjuro Tsubaki said:
No, you're right, it wasn't - previousley TNA had some great young workers who struggled to climb the card when WWE cast off's came in and took the top spots, now that situation has only been compounded by the inclusion of more WWE cast off's and old guys who maybe appeal to the casual fan. Shit, I don't know why i'm bothering, TNA was mostly shit then and it's mostly shit now, nothings changed except there's more old guys I couldn't give two shits about crapping up the place.
OMG, Sting's up in the rafters! Have I somehow returned in time to 1998? :O
Jeff Albertson
Member
Help me wrestlegaf you're my only hope. Kofi is tired of jumping on randys car now could someone avatarise ron for me? Here's a gif but there may be better damn gifs out there:
no worries if not, cheers chaps
no worries if not, cheers chaps
Did you completely ignore his promo from Thursday? He has like 16 title reigns in TNA between the old NWA belts and the current TNA stuff. He was voted Mr TNA (which is like the WWE's Wrestler of the Year slammy) 3 years in a row. He has 3 'match of the year' awards in TNA as well.Sanjuro Tsubaki said:
If you don't know who he is, that is your fault, not TNA's. He was the world champion long before Flair showed up and one of the only things TNA has done right in years.
jecclr2003
Banned
Sanjuro Tsubaki said:
You've got to be fucking kidding me. The guy has been in the main event scene of TNA since the start. He's held EVERY belt TNA has to offer on multiple occassions!
And yes... it WAS a indy hotbed from a talent perspective.
Aj
Joe
Daniels
Sabin
Shelley
Lethal
Nigel McGuiness
CM Punk (yes he started with TNA as part of Raven's crew.) and on and on were all indy stand-outs that got their breaks in TNA. I'm just going to assume that you don't have a damn clue as to what you're talking about.
jecclr2003
Banned
Sanjuro Tsubaki said:
No..actually it is your fault. If you don't watch the product then you can't form an opinion. You're just going on heresay. You haven't given the product a chance aside from what you read on dirtsheets, then it's 100% your fault.
Same can be said if you never watched WWE and had no clue what Cena or HHH was all about.
You are just coming across as rude and ignorant now. You embody those TNA fans threatening to take over the arena and just won't admit it. I have the right to say anything I fucking please about a wrestling organization attempting to reach out to ME to view their product. If they succeed then much like I did with WCW, I will learn about their history as I go along. So far their history I have learned has been trying to bank off past superstars and if you actually read my posts I don't have a problem with that.jecclr2003 said:
TNA isn't a family, it's a business. They are in it to profit. WWE is the major leagues of the business, you would be foolish to disagree. The whole purpose of signing Hogan is to compete. NOBODY would have been interested to tune in that Monday night to watch AJ Styles. Hate the old timers all you want but they are recognizable. They attract people interested in an alternative.
I respect some of the individuals in these threads for their wrestling hobby . You see them posting matches out of Japan, forgotten vignettes, and silly things. Many are casual viewers like me who tune in Monday nights for nostalgia and because there really isn't that much on/to do.
I've talked to you about wrestling before bjork. We have differing opinions as well but you are dead wrong here. I would like to see TNA do well and I absolutely would watch Monday nights. They just aren't going to get their audience leaving their show on Thursday night. They need to keep going head to head and pull out the stops to get viewers like me to hit that "lastchannel" button.bjork said:
Sanjuro Tsubaki said:
I don't recall talking wrasslin' with you before, tbh. Anyway, I don't particularly care if they thrive or not, since I tune into wrestle tv about 1/10 as much as I used to, but seems to me that it's wiser to be on a different day so you can have the audience all to yourself that day, considering that the competition is the most-watched cable show or whatever.
And whether I've talked to you before or not, I gotta say that you're coming across like a joke character in here. Maybe it's just the way you're wording your posts, not sure.
Well it was off site, maybe someone was impersonating you. I'm being honest now. I do purposely topple well over the edge on here when I believe people are teetering that edge of rational thought.bjork said:
I think having a lesser show or a re-airing on Thursday could do them some good. It's a risky move but it's my belief that Mondays would be the ideal move. I don't watch much wrestling anymore either. Monday nights and some Sunday nights are the only times I will mainly watch. I'm never been much of a smark like some of the diehards, I'm more of a casual/smark on the basis I take everything I see with a huge grain of salt.
The Frankman
Banned
ummm try not to take anything Sanjuro says as truth. He is the Bill Simmons of wrestling fans. He also has a job waiting for him at Fox News once he decides to go completely off the reservation.
Try not to take anything Frankman says as truth. He is one of the primary reasons I go off the deep end.The Frankman said:
Back on topic here, Frankman. I don't get how you can not make any sense out of anything I said there. It's almost like the "REAL" TNA fans want their operation to stay small and not viewed by anyone else. While everyone here was bashing them I enjoyed their Monday night offering.
The Frankman
Banned
... people bashed them because their Monday Night thing was overall poor. Are you telling me you liked that clusterfuck at the beginning? Hogan's long-term plan? The only thing I liked was the Angle-Styles match.Sanjuro Tsubaki said:
Not to mention you just said AJ Styles was a jobber. A JOBBER. That kinda instantly makes you lose credit.
No the opening was the worst part. I liked the Hogan segment. That was the first time I saw a AJ Styles match and I thought it was pretty good. If I recall I was defending it when someone was shitting on it for having "too many finishers". It was a really cool match and nice seeing Angle again.The Frankman said:
My biggest complaint was the commercial breaks were every two seconds to try and pace with WWE it seemed.
*For all I know he was a jobber. If he was in WWE he most likely would be. The term jobber in the big leagues is seemingly different anyway. You have one like Santino who sells more merchandise than lets say The Miz for example. They really don't have the same level of them as they used to. (Maybe on Superstars more? But they don't even have that huge of a roster.)
British Monsoon
Member
Sanjuro Tsubaki said:
That was me, but I wouldn't say I was shitting on it. It was a good fast-paced match with a lot of good spots, but for me it did have too many finishers, it was overkill - their match at Genesis was much better paced I thought and didn't have quite so many OTT spots that broke my suspension of disbelief (except AJ again kicking out of the top rope Olympic Slam). Ironically the mouth-breathers/fans in the Impact Zone were shitting over the Genesis match because it wasn't one crazy spot after another.
The Frankman
Banned
I'm no TNA fan but I'm familiar with the product since 2004 (back when they were on Fox Sports). They have been known for having some good talent that the WWE passed on like Samoa Joe and AJ Styles, the latter would've been awesome in the WWE. Sure they've had some guys they built up who weren't much like Ron Killings and possibly Monty Brown (POOUUUUNCEE!), but they always had been one of those organizations with potential...
IMHO after watching two whole episode of the new TNA Hogan is the worst thing they could've done, I sense a lot of stagnation with few young guys getting pushes in the future... now maybe Hogan moves them out of the WCW Thunder arena, that would give him brownie points.
IMHO after watching two whole episode of the new TNA Hogan is the worst thing they could've done, I sense a lot of stagnation with few young guys getting pushes in the future... now maybe Hogan moves them out of the WCW Thunder arena, that would give him brownie points.
jecclr2003
Banned
Then you owe it to yourself, so you don't come off as such an uninformed asshole, to actually WATCH a product to have something to ACTUALLY FORM AN OPINION ON.Sanjuro Tsubaki said:
You said yourself you have only READ what's going and not actually seen the product. Well things read VERY differently than what they actually display on TV. If you're not willing to give it a chance, then how is it possible for them to reach out to you? You refuse to give it a chance.
It's like bitching about the president, and yet you didn't vote in the election.
I may not like where ROH is right now, but I at least have watched some of their stuff lately so I can decide that.
Sanjuro Tsubaki said:
They signed Hogan to gain more exposure here in the US. TNA is doing just fine overseas. Hell, they were doing just fine here. They were reaching 1.5-1.8 million viewers a week. Damn solid number for cable. Is it WWE numbers? No. It doesn't have to be though. They signed Hogan so more people would watch AJ Styles, Daniels, Joe, etc...
We're not disagreeing here.
Ok then, nothing wrong with that. But you really don't have the right to bitch about something unless you've actually given something a chance to grab your attention.Sanjuro Tsubaki said:
Watch a TNA PPV and a couple weeks shows... THEN you can actually form an opinion. Don't form a baseless opinion off of what you read off of some internet dirt sheet.
Sanjuro Tsubaki said:
Why do they NEED to go head to head? I feel it serves them better to stay on their own night to have their own audience without the worry of dividing said audience.
Well I was honest before about my only exposure to TNA was seeing that Macho Man clone's penis. That was just weird.The Frankman said:
I do feel like they are trying to recreate WCW. Which is fine by me but it can go in several directions. I like Hogan, I'm not going to lie. I'm just not sure what else they can do from here. As an outsider I'm just being honest on my feelings of AJ Styles. He put on a good show, but I know nothing about the guy yet. The Flair aspect works for exposure now all they need to do is get more opportunities to steal some viewers to watch him perform.
jecclr2003
Banned
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<<Avatar changed to reflect greatness
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<<Avatar changed to reflect greatness
Again, I've watched the show that they pandered to me to watch...and I liked it. How am I coming across as an asshole when I'm point blank saying "I want to see more". I don't watch WWE on Fridays and I'm not going to watch TNA on Thursdays. When your entire companies motto now is "WE ARE COMING FOR YOU VINCE!" you simply have to do Mondays. Period. Like I said before, re-air on Thursdays if you want that audience.jecclr2003 said:
International numbers? You can't honestly believe that. Much like film, the domestic numbers are what they want. It's the only true goldmine for entertainment like this. International exposure helps but doesn't give you much.
I don't feel like I'm saying anything too far off base here. I don't know what a "dirt sheet" is exactly but I just checked in with the thread.
jecclr2003
Banned
Sanjuro Tsubaki said:
Then I apologize, it was coming across as you NEVER watched the show and were basing an opinion off of some dirt sheet. (Dirt sheet is online wrestling sites. They rely mostly on rumor and speculation) But let's be fair... one show's really not much of a test. Give it a month. A full show cycle plus PPV. You'll be FAR more impressed by the PPVs than you will the weekly shows. They're just at a different level and show you where TNA's focus SHOULD be.... the in ring work.
For one, I'm not a fan of the idea of putting them head to head with RAW. It splits the audience for both shows. But this is the DVR age so it REALLY doesn't matter. You should be able to navigate a DVR, right?
Um WWE makes more money overseas than they do here. As does TNA.
You're fooling yourself if you don't think international numbers matter. You're also coming off as very uninformed. It's ALL about money, and right now wrestling is a bigger deal anywhere but the US and Japan. Tours sell out, so gates are huge. Ratings are high all over the world. Mostly in countries that dont have their own wrestling to promote.
Ask James Cameron how he feels about international numbers....
Yeah I was going to bring up the Avatar. That whole story is baffling to me as a film fan. TRADITIONALLY America is the hotbed for pop-culture, both WWE TNA know this. I don't doubt they are making healthy overseas profit but this is still the goldmine like I said. It just makes more sense economically to be healthy here and relay the brand elsewhere.jecclr2003 said:
jecclr2003
Banned
Sanjuro Tsubaki said:
Well, I'm going to tell you you're wrong. For wrestling, it's been a bigger deal overseas for a LOOOOOONG time.
THAT is the goldmine, not here. They produce the product here and make it appeal to a worldwide audience. They are both in a race to see who can get into China first for TV and live events. WWE has been looking to expand and open leagues based on certain regions like WWE Mexico, WWE Japan, and WWE Europe. They've gone as far as opening offices for those regions.
The contracts they negotiate for international TV are essentially PURE profit. The costs of production are taken care of by the US TV contracts. (With TNA we'll never know more than an educated guess since it's a privately held company)
Variety said:
jecclr2003
Banned
Sanjuro Tsubaki said:
I'm not a stock holder, so I'm not privy to WWE's exact numbers. TNA is a private company, so they only give approximations.
But they each have contracts in dozens of countries each and both tour overseas, WWE moreso than TNA. They collect big bucks for every one of those contracts.
As profits have climbed and climbed, WWE spends more and more time overseas. It used to be a once a year thing, now it's pretty much every other month. The split staffs help relieve some of the pressure of excessive travel. (This was a BIG reason, among many others, for the brand split. To keep one brand in the US while the other was away. Both with equal star and drawing ability.)
jecclr2003
Banned
Sanjuro Tsubaki said:
Why is that hard to fathom? It's a big world out there with money to spend.
If you're basing things off of one country vs the US, then yes... the US makes a ton more.
But it adds up with the revenues from all of those countries from TV revenues, merch (which overseas they tend to buy FAR more merch), live gates, etc.
jecclr2003
Banned
Mr. Sam said:Surely this is a better picture to draw an avatar from:
I'm at work... no photoshop here so I can avatar it. Can someone do me the honor?
Found this on CNBC to put things in perspective.jecclr2003 said:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/34326188
That's covering the large markets. Roughly it's $30 million Internationally versus $81.3 domestically. That is a pretty large difference. I understand that wrestling is popular overseas, but again the money is here. TNA is not going to be vastly different most likely percentage wise.
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