150Mhz CPU boost on XBO, now in production

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Bsigg12 said:
Have you seen the size of the fan in the Xbox One? Also, the layout of the internals is what flawed the 360, there was literally no possible way to cool it with the way they stacked everything. They specifically built the Xbox One to avoid every heating issue they ever had with the 360, and the result is the massive box and power brick, which I can deal with.
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I still dont trust them, i just cant. I was fine, in fact i was good, with their previous choices as the games looked great to me. But all these last minute changes remind me of the rrod and the sega Saturn launch...
 
Bsigg12 said:
I don't think you can use the Playstation Camera on PC. According to here it uses a PS4 dedicated connector, the AUX port on the PS4, and isn't mentioned if it's USB 3.0 or not. Unless you have confirmation else where, it might be stuck on the PS4.
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It's going to make a good door stopPS4 camera then!
 
Bsigg12 said:
Have you seen the size of the fan in the Xbox One? Also, the layout of the internals is what flawed the 360, there was literally no possible way to cool it with the way they stacked everything. They specifically built the Xbox One to avoid every heating issue they ever had with the 360, and the result is the massive box and power brick, which I can deal with.
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To be honest the size of the fan is not very big and the heatsink doesn't look all that complex. The one thing it does have is a lot of vents in the case.
 
cyberheater said:
Clearly you've got a lot of expertise in this area. Please explain how Xbox One's cooling solution is lacklustre and how will PS4 improve upon it?
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I have no idea what the PS4s cooling solution is. I was merely comparing the Xbox Ones to the PS3s. The latter has a much larger, thicker, more comprehensive heat sink design, and what looks to be more heat pipes too. I guess we'll be able to compare them properly when we learn more, but I'm pretty confident after looking at the Xbox One's innards, that Sony's internal cooling solution for the PS4 will likely be more advanced and efficient.
 
Style Fox said:
To be honest the size of the fan is not very big and the heatsink doesn't look all that complex. The one thing it does have is a lot of vents in the case.
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A well engineered fan doesn't have to be huge to move a lot of air. Just like a small engine vs a big one, a small fan can be more efficient and move more air than a big one. There's a lot of factors going into fan design.

I would guess that MS focused on both quietness and high efficiency when it came to this fan design. Plus, I think these new consoles are going to run a LOT cooler than Xbox 360/PS3 did when they launched... we've come a long way since 90nm.
 
Trogdor1123 said:
I still dont trust them, i just cant. I was fine, in fact i was good, with their previous choices as the games looked great to me. But all these last minute changes remind me of the rrod and the sega Saturn launch...
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This isn't really a change as much as it's an optimization. Sony will be able to do the same thing as they get to their first final build of the OS and see how much overhead they have cut. Like I've said earlier, I expect both companies over the life of this next generation, to up both the CPU and GPU clock speeds to give both systems a little more life.
 
nib95 said:
A smaller console doesn't necessarily mean worse cooling. This is Microsoft's cooling solution from the XO from what we know so far..

iPhTQgAhk1rjU.jpg


Huge fan, but still plenty of space available and not the most efficient heat sink design. Does have some copper heat pipes though.

This was the PS3s at launch.

fan2.jpg


DSCF0401thumb.jpg


Notice the massive fan, more advanced heat sink design and also large copper heat pipes. I fully expect the PS4's cooling solution to be even better. Microsoft's effort to be honest doesn't seem overly impressive or particularly advanced.
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You mean the Fat PS3? The less reliable of the 3 revisions?

Gotcha. Let's hope the PS4 solution is far better because that's a small casing with decent guts. Dying to know how they plan to keep that thing cool AND quiet.
 
nib95 said:
I have no idea what the PS4s cooling solution is. I was merely comparing the Xbox Ones to the PS3s. The latter has a much larger, thicker, more comprehensive heat sink design, and what looks to be more heat pipes too. I guess we'll be able to compare them properly when we learn more, but I'm pretty confident after looking at the Xbox One's innards, that Sony's internal cooling solution for the PS4 will likely be more advanced and efficient.
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So you don't actually have any professional expertise in cooling design then?
 
nib95 said:
I have no idea what the PS4s cooling solution is. I was merely comparing the Xbox Ones to the PS3s. The latter has a much larger, thicker, more comprehensive heat sink design, and what looks to be more heat pipes too. I guess we'll be able to compare them properly when we learn more, but I'm pretty confident after looking at the Xbox One's innards, that Sony's internal cooling solution for the PS4 will likely be more advanced and efficient.
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pressshot.jpg



kind of like this? my idle temps are 28c . never goes over 40 during gaming.
 
nib95 said:
I have no idea what the PS4s cooling solution is. I was merely comparing the Xbox Ones to the PS3s. The latter has a much larger, thicker, more comprehensive heat sink design, and what looks to be more heat pipes too. I guess we'll be able to compare them properly when we learn more, but I'm pretty confident after looking at the Xbox One's innards, that Sony's internal cooling solution for the PS4 will likely be more advanced and efficient.
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eh, I doubt cooling will be an issue for the Xbox One. Big heatsink, big fan. Temps and noise should be relatively low.
 
nib95 said:
I have no idea what the PS4s cooling solution is. I was merely comparing the Xbox Ones to the PS3s. The latter has a much larger, thicker, more comprehensive heat sink design, and what looks to be more heat pipes too. I guess we'll be able to compare them properly when we learn more, but I'm pretty confident after looking at the Xbox One's innards, that Sony's internal cooling solution for the PS4 will likely be more advanced and efficient.
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Have you ever built and OCed a computer before?
 
Osiris said:
If chip yields are not the reason for the low number of tier 1 countries, then what is?
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Jesus Christ. There could be any number of reasons. Maybe the localized software isn't ready. Maybe the partnerships aren't ready. Maybe MS hates the fucking Swiss. Maybe their shipment of power bricks was infested by weevils. Maybe they just want to be less supply constrained in every region they do launch in. This whole world-wide launch thing is kind of a new development, and frankly, it never seems to go that well.
 
benny_a said:
2GHz is preposterous. According to Anandtech that's a TDP increase of 66% over 1.6GHz.
1.6GHz is the sweet spot.
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An increase of 66% (Or any percentage) means nothing without knowing the TDP with all cores loaded.

Jaguar is a low TDP design, rumored to run anywhere from 17w to 30w TDP fully loaded.

If it's as low as 17w, a 66% increase to 28w is still low for a CPU
If it's as high as 30w, then 66% increase to 49w , still around half the TDP of Cell.

So, given such low TDP baselines for the APU's, why is an increase of 66% so out of the question, for either Xbox One or PS4?

Edit: Just saw your post above benny-a, yeah, I came to the same conclusion as above, just from a different direction :P
 
hydrophilic attack said:
But there is a lot of data suggesting you have supply issues. We have several reports saying PS4 pre-orders are much higher than XBO pre-orders. Why would this be the case if not for supply issues? If you can't provide another reason I find it hard to believe you.

Also, the price of the XBO also indicates yield issues. If you did not have yield issues, pushing up the cost of each fully functional chip why would your console be more expensive than the competition's, while being significantly less powerful? Especially given your history of providing a better performance/price ratio than your competition in previous generations. Sure there is Kinect, but aside from the high up-front costs of R&D, it shouldn't be very expensive to produce each unit.

There is also the fact that you delayed the release of the XBO in many European countries. You yourself said that this was due to difficulties of translating certain services, but this explanation doesn't mesh very well at all with the recent news of Kinect not supporting voice control in several of the launch markets.
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A high price doesn't indicate yield issues, it indicates that the company wants a solid profit margin right out of the gate.
 
beast786 said:
Isn't it kind of troublesome when orignal 360 game is causing max CPU bottle necking already at the launch?
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Huge open world with zero load times and a metric shit ton of zombies on screen with global illumination? Looks pretty good to me to be honest.

From a recent DR3 thread:

Some differences are not immediately visible in videos (yet have a very significant impact on hardware) like the fact the game is now open world with no loading screens between different areas. Unified lighting engine, with shadows being cast by every light source, for every object onscreen (including *every* zombie). Amount of objects you can interact with and the physics moving them.

That's where most resources go. But even without taking those into account there's still a rather huge difference in textures resolution and variety. Shadows resolution, amount of zombies onscreen, scope, geometry (scenery especially), amount and quality of shaders used for different materials. Draw distance. IQ (AF). Possibly native resolution. Ambient Occlusion.
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Bsigg12 said:
I can keep a medium to large PC case cool all the time. In a small box like the PS4, there has to be some serious engineering to move heat away from internals.
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PS4 has a ton of vents on it. The back is almost all ventilation and the sides have vents hidden on them as well.
 
RoboPlato said:
PS4 has a ton of vents on it. The back is almost all ventilation and the sides have vents hidden on them as well.
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That's kind of what I was alluding to. A PC graphics card cooling solution is not anywhere close to what has to be done to manage a small enclosed box like the PS4. They have a ton of vents across the system. I'm curious to see the heat transferring solution on the APU though and see what they came up with.

Guymelef said:
I can overclock my phone more that 150Mhz without additional vents.
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I can attest to this. Until I started pushing +400mhz bumps on my Galaxy Nexus, there was no additional heat.
 
RoKKeR said:
Huge open world with zero load times and a metric shit ton of zombies on screen with global illumination? Looks pretty good to me to be honest.

From a recent DR3 thread:
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Sweet.

Still. I can't imagine struggling at 30fos is limiting xb1 already. That is kind of disappointing .
 
This is why having competition is essential each generation. It forces the companies to push a little harder. Good for MS, hope this doesn't cause any heating issues because this is somewhat untested in the long run.
 
Satchel said:
You mean the Fat PS3? The less reliable of the 3 revisions?

Gotcha. Let's hope the PS4 solution is far better because that's a small casing with decent guts. Dying to know how they plan to keep that thing cool AND quiet.
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Yes, but don't forget the components were larger nm processes back then and ran much hotter and less efficient than what we have in the consoles today. In other words to cooling solution at the time had a considerably harder task than in the current hardware revisions.

cyberheater said:
So you don't actually have any professional expertise in cooling design then?
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Besides using different heats sinks in my own PC builds, on CPUs and on gpus etc, no. But some experience none the less. Many of these things don't necessarily require professional knowledge to form an opinion anyway, pretty easy to put two heat sinks side by side and form an opinion on which is the more advanced solution if there is a big discrepancy between the builds, materials, design, use of heat pipes etc. In this example Microsoft's design looks far more basic and akin to the default designs that come with CPUs only with a larger fan. The PS3s looks far more exotic and substantial in comparison. But it did have to cool far hotter running hardware, and would depend on the size of the fan.
 
Osiris said:
So, given such low TDP baselines for the APU's, why is an increase of 66% so out of the question, for either Xbox One or PS4?
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That's still a significant increase in TDP over what they've planned with for a long time.

And if you could increase the TDP, you should increase the GPU.

You're right that because the TDP is way lower in this generation compared to the PS3, they could increase it without generating more heat than 7 years ago.

But they still designed it around a certain TDP. Switching it up late in the game, seems strange to me. (Later than February this year, while the GPU power was known for 18(?) months already.)

Osiris said:
Edit: Just saw your post above benny-a, yeah, I came to the same conclusion as above, just from a different direction :P
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As you can see above I'm not optimistic about an upgrade. There are others that are. Maybe I get positively surprised.
 
nib95 said:
I have no idea what the PS4s cooling solution is. I was merely comparing the Xbox Ones to the PS3s. The latter has a much larger, thicker, more comprehensive heat sink design, and what looks to be more heat pipes too. I guess we'll be able to compare them properly when we learn more, but I'm pretty confident after looking at the Xbox One's innards, that Sony's internal cooling solution for the PS4 will likely be more advanced and efficient.
Click to expand...

You've no idea what PS4 cooling solution is, but confident its more efficient and advanced? :O

I suppose this upclock will improve framerates, AI and physics?
 
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