Shoot first is 10,000 percent the wrong policy for the people that are supposed to be PROTECTING and serving citizens.
Also they shot this kid in the back of the fucking head. Inexcusable.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
16 y/o teen shot dead by police in Arkansas while carrying a BB gun
- Thread starter Royce McCutcheon
- Start date
Also they shot this kid in the back of the fucking head. Inexcusable.
Dragon Puncher
Member
Does anybody believe this would have happened with a white kid? That officers would have started shooting as soon as they got out of the car, when the kid had his back turned? Serious question. The underlying racism and fear of black people by the US police is so goddamn clear at this point.
It's incredible depressive to think about of long this has been a problem. As long as the police protect their own and officers suffer no consequences it won't go away.
It's incredible depressive to think about of long this has been a problem. As long as the police protect their own and officers suffer no consequences it won't go away.
All I would say is take another job if you can't show restraint in force to a civilian populace. If you're unwilling to risk your life to make sure that an innocent civilian keeps theirs. But this obviously goes to cops nationwide because this is a problem that affects the entire country.
Police in all countries everywhere will shoot someone who points a gun at them. In Canada our police would definitely shoot someone if they were pointing a gun at them.
Im not police but I was trained trained to shoot only when the suspect is showing potential and intent to cause grievous bodily harm or death.
Pointing a gun at somebody qualifies. Im not sure how this is a point of argument.
Not saying that is the case in this case, just that saying they should only shoot when they are getting shot at is ridiculous.
Here is a scenario for you. A suspect starts to raise his gun to point it at a young kid. The officer decides he should wait and see if it is a real gun. The suspect shoots and murders the kid.
Is this still the proper policy in your mind?
Scenario? An innocent kid DID DIE. Fuck.
Also on the topic;
They train cops here "shoot to kill". Emptying your clip the moment you feel threatened is encouraged. Disarming shots aren't even considered. It's inhumane.
Mix in institutionalized racism, and it becomes a death sentence for most black citizens.
This is not new. Stop trying to rationalize it.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
No one is saying much, but it's sounding like someone called it in as if he had a real weapon.
They could have, you know, talked to him.
Matrix XII
Member
Another poor child murdered by the police.
Why did I already know he was black before I read the article
I can't believe the ppl in here defending this. Take a long look in the mirror at yourself for that.
Why did I already know he was black before I read the article
I can't believe the ppl in here defending this. Take a long look in the mirror at yourself for that.
That does not qualify as a situation that calls for deadly force.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Hypotheticals: when what actually happened doesn't work for you
It is a bit different here.
From the training ive been through and what I know of our police forces center of mass is always the target for rifles and handguns but you are supposed to stop and reasses the effectiveness of your shots if the suspect has stopped being threatening (no unloading an entire clip).
We are only taught to shoot to wound with shotguns though. Ive heard of some police forces (Sweden maybe?) that teach shooting to the legs with duty pistols but that is very rare in the entire world.
And your dismissal of my scenario does nothing to stop it from proving true. If someone was about to draw a gun on me, I would hope the police officer would shoot him if he tried to point it in my direction.
Cops are people too, they don't want to die.
crazepharmacist
Member
Bet you'd change your tune real quick if the topic was changed slightly to pointing a gun at a civilian. Police: "Let's wait until they start killing civilians because hey that gun may not be real or have rubber bullets in it because thats what isom said we should do"
Cybrwzrd
Banned
I'd be dead now if I was a kid in this crazy era. 20+ years ago my buddies and I were out shooting at shit (cans, targets, milk jugs, haybales) in the woods with bb guns, and someone called the cops on us while we were walking home. 2 cop cars rolled up, talked to us about gun safety and took our guns from us and held them until our parents went to the police station to pick them up. Only reason they took them is that someone called the cops on us and because we were walking around with them out like stupid 12/13 year olds would do.
Citizens are often powerless to what cops do to them. We don't have a choice. You do.
Be better.
(Cops in general, not you specifically)
But it wasn't a civilian and it wasn't a real gun. See that where this falls apart.
I do believe cops have the right to use lethal force if someone is armed and not complying, if I am not mistaken. I am not saying it was the right thing to do but that is the right of the cops in America, so do not waive guns in the air, like you just don't care.
Yeah fuck you buddy.
It's not funny. A 16 year old kid died.
crazepharmacist
Member
Because that's exactly what this kid was doing.
"his cousin, Chris Clark, told reporters that he held a BB gun in the air, and they just took him down on sight,"
Holding a gun in the air = shoot him in the back of head as a response?
Does that sound ok to you?
True in some regards but the guy holding the gun always has more power then the guy who isn't holding one, regardless of whether that is a civilian, a cop or a criminal.
I do think the police force should be better, but until they develop some kind of technology that can detect fake guns, or a reliable long range Taser like weapon that can successfully incapacitate a suspect non-lethally, I'm not sure what the long term solution is.
It definitely isn't making police officers risk their lives to see if a guns real.
But it also definitely isn't letting these shootings of unarmed individuals continue.
crazepharmacist
Member
Yeah it does. Sounds like he tried running away after they confronted him. Guy waiving a gun around running from the cops getting shot at sounds like an appropriate response.
RespectThySole
Member
For a second I thought that this wasn't a black kid since that wasn't in the title. How silly of me.. of course it was smh
Jmanunknown
Member
Did you totally skip over the big thread about a white Australian woman being killed in Minnesota by a police officer a week or so ago?
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Don't waste your breath bro. This guy had his mind decided the second he read the word black in the article. Doubt he actually read past that point..😏
Holding the gun in the air, not aiming it at anyone.
BrutishMrFish
Member
How do you square the idea that the kid was a threat because he could have shot someone at the community center with the idea that the cops shooting him in the head was proper police procedure?
Police aren't trained to always aim for the head or limbs specifically because those are hard targets to hit from a distance (more so with low visibility), so if the kid was such a danger from his position at the time of the shooting, didn't the cops put people at risk by taking a shot that could have easily missed and hit someone at the facility?
Angelus Errare
Banned
The kid got shot in the back of the head. Which means unless his latent black twitch fiber muscles were going to kick in and he was about to move faster than light, the police were in no danger.
But hey, by all means create scenarios to justify a child being shot in the back of the head.
If the gun was being pointed at a civilian, I don't see how my point is changed. It shouldn't be shoot first just to get the kill. There is a concept known as deescalating the situation. But I'm guessing a guy named crazepharmacist doesn't really care about that.
Even in open carry states you can't brandish a gun that you are legally carrying, which means drawing it and waving it around. Pointing a legally registered gun at other citizens is still illegal and a good way to be shot by police.
This sounds very bad. I sure hope for the officers' sake that there was good body camera footage of the shooting, if they are going with the story that they opened fire because they saw somebody brandishing something that looked like a real gun.
1) The officers could have split up to flank the victim/suspect, as an armed person can't shoot in multiple directions at once.
2) The officers could have seen their victim threatening another party with what looked like a gun
Again, considering how cops have lied in the past, I sure would hope that there is some kind of video evidence that shows what happened.
Why do you hope there? There could be footage crystal clear and they won't get convicted. See Philandro Castile and the Cigarette selling guy who's name I foeget right now. They have fuck all the worry about, they know they are going to get away with it. Cops for away with shooting a 12 year old out of the car window literally seconds after arriving on scene, killing a black man in a Walmart carrying a toy fun he was going to purchase, and an unarmed guy literally running away. All on great video.
So yeah they are not sweating.
Royce McCutcheon
Junior Member
Terrifying the contrast between this thread and the woman who got killed in Minnesota, almost comedic.
SlipperyFishes
Banned
Dang.
e: Actually number is wrong, or at least has risen since the article was written.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2017/
Interesting site though. Not sure of the data accuracy but the filters are useful.
And yet here in the UK the deaths by police shootings were recorded as "doubling"
Why the fuck are US cops treated like fucjing cowboys. Half of them shouldn't need a gun and the other half probably shouldn't be ever allowed to touch one.
JonnyDBrit
Member
Well fuck, this hits close to home.
When I was in secondary school, one of the scenarios that we had to practice for a drama class wound up being a home invasion, one of the robbers having a gun. Being a bit of an autistic dumbass, I brought in this realistic looking BB gun, modelled after a Colt M1911. Being excited and all, I showed it to some friends behind the back of the Asperger's Resource Centre of the school - usual area we played.
Now, a member of staff spotted me waving this pretty damn realistic looking handgun around in a country where they're outlawed, and told the headteacher. They proceeded to make the judgement call... of telling the ARC's staff, who proceeded to talk to me about how dumb I was being. They mentioned how the firearms police could have been called if someone less familiar with the context of things had seen me. But in the end, they decided to err on the side of caution, and so I didn't get into any further trouble after, while the BB gun was given to the police to be destroyed.
Now, one could apply a number of differing metrics to why I am still here, able to type this:
1) I live in Britain, where gun culture is not so prevalent that a teenager with an actual handgun is somehow plausible.
2) My headteacher used a number of his brain cells to actually consider the context in which I had been spotted, while the staff member who had spotted me didn't automatically assume I was dangerous, possibly because of...
3) I'm white.
I'm sorry to be an armchair analyst from the other side of the Atlantic on this topic, but something is fucked up when a boy that was in a place to get help winds up shot dead. Unfortunately, this is but an extension of a number of increasingly prevalent issues America has with regards to its police forces.
When I was in secondary school, one of the scenarios that we had to practice for a drama class wound up being a home invasion, one of the robbers having a gun. Being a bit of an autistic dumbass, I brought in this realistic looking BB gun, modelled after a Colt M1911. Being excited and all, I showed it to some friends behind the back of the Asperger's Resource Centre of the school - usual area we played.
Now, a member of staff spotted me waving this pretty damn realistic looking handgun around in a country where they're outlawed, and told the headteacher. They proceeded to make the judgement call... of telling the ARC's staff, who proceeded to talk to me about how dumb I was being. They mentioned how the firearms police could have been called if someone less familiar with the context of things had seen me. But in the end, they decided to err on the side of caution, and so I didn't get into any further trouble after, while the BB gun was given to the police to be destroyed.
Now, one could apply a number of differing metrics to why I am still here, able to type this:
1) I live in Britain, where gun culture is not so prevalent that a teenager with an actual handgun is somehow plausible.
2) My headteacher used a number of his brain cells to actually consider the context in which I had been spotted, while the staff member who had spotted me didn't automatically assume I was dangerous, possibly because of...
3) I'm white.
I'm sorry to be an armchair analyst from the other side of the Atlantic on this topic, but something is fucked up when a boy that was in a place to get help winds up shot dead. Unfortunately, this is but an extension of a number of increasingly prevalent issues America has with regards to its police forces.
Is there a checklist for the police in the US on how to fuck up? Because they appear to follow it pretty well here.
Minority? Check
Teenager? Check?
Opportunity to not fatally shoot the person? Check as if you shoot someone in the back of the head they're not facing you, so not a present danger.
Person not actually carrying a lethal firearm? Check.
Person killed having mental issues and likely needing help rather than force? Check.
If there's ever a sadder indictment of a society, it's how law enforcement treat their citizens, especially minorities. Where exactly does killing hundreds of people a year fit into "Protect and Serve". The police need to really stop thinking that shooting is the best policy. It should be last resort and it clearly isn't.
Minority? Check
Teenager? Check?
Opportunity to not fatally shoot the person? Check as if you shoot someone in the back of the head they're not facing you, so not a present danger.
Person not actually carrying a lethal firearm? Check.
Person killed having mental issues and likely needing help rather than force? Check.
If there's ever a sadder indictment of a society, it's how law enforcement treat their citizens, especially minorities. Where exactly does killing hundreds of people a year fit into "Protect and Serve". The police need to really stop thinking that shooting is the best policy. It should be last resort and it clearly isn't.
Really? there are plenty of examples when they don't take the same actions when the suspect is white, plenty and with suspects armed not with a bb gun but with assault rifles, and in a surprising turn of events they are able to capture them without killing them, but when the suspect is a black person no matter how young it is they will end up dead.
King Gilga
Member
Man yous a real piece of shit aint ya.
Yeah, but if they're black, you seem to have that opportunity a lot more than if they're white, huh.
And if they're black, they can be pointing a gun at you even if they're unarmed or the gun is in the glove compartment or in netherspace or doesn't exist.
I mean, y'all remember when a bunch of armed to the teeth Patriots stormed a ranger station and took it over, looting priceless native artifacts, destroying shit setting up barricades and threatening to shoot anyone who came near?
And they were there for like a month and even made grocery store nuns without getting nabbed? And reporters were let in so they spew bullshit on national TV, and the sherrif met with them and shook hands?
And in the end one guy shot at cops so they killed him, but the rest were just allow to leave and those arrested were aquitted of all charges?
Imagine if a group of black dudes did that.
And they were there for like a month and even made grocery store nuns without getting nabbed? And reporters were let in so they spew bullshit on national TV, and the sherrif met with them and shook hands?
And in the end one guy shot at cops so they killed him, but the rest were just allow to leave and those arrested were aquitted of all charges?
Imagine if a group of black dudes did that.
There's people in this thread who believe if you'd been shot it would have been justified. Really puts into perspective how fucked up some people here are.
Although that might depend on whether or not you're a minority.
Systolique
Member
The 2-3 insane people that are defending cops in this thread need to get out of the States and see how European police handles ""potential threats""
(fun fact : less people die)
(fun fact : less people die)
Lethal force needs to be trained to be the last possible resort. I'd go so far as to say you only fire ONCE being fired upon or if a gun is directly pointed at you. Also shooting to disable should always be the strategy. Aim for the hip, large target area but not gonna immediately kill anyone.
This shit is just depressing. The police truly are a criminal gang, with this murder count and stuff like civil forfeiture and how they arm themselves with military equipment. After Trump telling them to forget about the rule of law and common decency and roughing up "scum" no wonder they act like this more and more.
Police should have 360 degrees helmet cams, chest cans and they should create gun cameras, small cameras on the barrel that auto records 30 seconds before and after every single shot that is fired. The tech would be perfectly doable. Seems the only way you can begin to bring these police under some sort of control.
Obviously if justice was a thing they had to contend with rather than getting away with virtually anything they want with everything leaned in their favour ("I was scared!") That would be a fucking good place to start.
This shit is just depressing. The police truly are a criminal gang, with this murder count and stuff like civil forfeiture and how they arm themselves with military equipment. After Trump telling them to forget about the rule of law and common decency and roughing up "scum" no wonder they act like this more and more.
Police should have 360 degrees helmet cams, chest cans and they should create gun cameras, small cameras on the barrel that auto records 30 seconds before and after every single shot that is fired. The tech would be perfectly doable. Seems the only way you can begin to bring these police under some sort of control.
Obviously if justice was a thing they had to contend with rather than getting away with virtually anything they want with everything leaned in their favour ("I was scared!") That would be a fucking good place to start.
Mammoth Jones
Member
He pulled a bb gun on cops but was shot in the back of the head....
Help me here....
Any video of this incident?
Help me here....
Any video of this incident?