Support NeoGAF

[charsace]

I was thinking a lot about the parade to the free throw line that happens in basketball.

What would you guys think of a rule that reduced the shot-clock to ten seconds in the final minute of a game? I think it would cut intentional fouling significantly.

Generally I'd like to get rid of intentional fouling altogether. I'd like to see a rule that awarded a team free throws and possession if their player was fouled away from the ball in a manner that was deemed to be intentional. But reducing the length of the shot clock in crunch time could help prevent a team from running out the clock with a small lead.

Usually rule changes are made because a guy is dominant or because something is weak. Your suggestion is for the latter reason.

No. There are already rules that limit the way you can defend and offense you can use. We don't need more rules that take away strategies.

 

[giri]

Lol I totally worded that wrong.

I meant to ask how many weeks do we have until Nash returns.

Well, he's no longer in PHX so.....

the whole season?

 

[Puddles]

Usually rule changes are made because a guy is dominant or because something is weak. Your suggestion is for the latter reason.

No. There are already rules that limit the way you can defend and offense you can use. We don't need more rules that take away strategies.

Even in the case of "strategies" that make the final minutes of a close game unwatchable?

Just about everyone I know who only watches basketball casually complains about the fouling at the end of games. It's probably the most common complaint I've ever heard. "The last two minutes take half an hour." You guys don't hear that?

Even for more serious fans like myself, it can be pretty annoying. I can count on one hand the number of games I've watched in the last few years that were actually made more exciting by intentional fouling (i.e. team with lead misses free throws, the other team hits multiple 3-pointers in a row). For every one of those games, there are probably a hundred games where the final outcome is exactly the same as what would have happened if there had been no intentional fouling, only it took 10 minutes longer to get to that point.

 

[reilo]

You mean the part of the game where a team is down 3 points with 20s left so they foul AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE for a chance of the other team missing freethrows? So your suggestion is to reduce the shotclock to 10s to change something that doesn't even matter (BECAUSE THE SHOT CLOCK IS OFF)?

So about that stupid idea...

 

[Puddles]

You mean the part of the game where a team is down 3 points with 20s left so they foul AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE for a chance of the other team missing freethrows? So your suggestion is to reduce the shotclock to 10s to change something that doesn't even matter (BECAUSE THE SHOT CLOCK IS OFF)?

So about that stupid idea...

Or when they're down 5-7 points with under a minute left. The shot clock isn't always off when intentional fouling begins.

Anyway, yeah, something needs to be done about that, and about hack defenses. "Make your free throws" isn't a good answer. Some people just have awkward hands.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

You mean the part of the game where a team is down 3 points with 20s left so they foul AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE for a chance of the other team missing freethrows? So your suggestion is to reduce the shotclock to 10s to change something that doesn't even matter (BECAUSE THE SHOT CLOCK IS OFF)?

So about that stupid idea...

The shot clock would be on with 20 seconds left in Puddles' scenario.

Usually rule changes are made because a guy is dominant or because something is weak. Your suggestion is for the latter reason.

No. There are already rules that limit the way you can defend and offense you can use. We don't need more rules that take away strategies.

I think the NBA did include a rule where every foul was three free throws back in 66-67 after teams would spend the entire game hacking Wilt in the beginning of the season.

Don't really like it though, feels arbitrary for drama.

 

[MorisUkunRasik]

Let's make fouling Dwight in the 4th an automatic technical!

 

[Puddles]

Let's make fouling Dwight in the 4th an automatic technical!

Not a bad idea, actually.

 

[Gully State]

On the topic of free throws, why are bad free throw shooters embarrassed to shoot it Rick Barry style? You're not ashamed of bricking most of your free throws but you are of potentially shooting significantly better granny style?

Or when they're down 5-7 points with under a minute left. The shot clock isn't always off when intentional fouling begins.

Anyway, yeah, something needs to be done about that, and about hack defenses. "Make your free throws" isn't a good answer. Some people just have awkward hands.

And some people aren't 7 feet tall or have ridiculous athleticism ...

 

[diehard]

complaining about intentional free throws in basketball is like complaining that the other team can run the ball to run out the clock in football.

 

[Vicetrailia]

...

Every good leader has the ability to genuinely shift to new emotions on the dime.

 

[Jeff-DSA]

Let's make fouling Dwight in the 4th an automatic technical!

When he learns to throw his body to the ground like Griffin, the flagrants will roll in, man.

 

[LegendofJoe]

On the topic of free throws, why are bad free throw shooters embarrassed to shoot it Rick Barry style? You're not ashamed of bricking most of your free throws but you are of potentially shooting significantly better granny style?

God, what I wouldn't give to see that.

 

[Puddles]

complaining about intentional free throws in basketball is like complaining that the other team can run the ball to run out the clock in football.

I've advocated the prohibition of taking a knee in football. Running the ball is fine; at least you're running a play.

 

[giri]

On the topic of free throws, why are bad free throw shooters embarrassed to shoot it Rick Barry style? You're not ashamed of bricking most of your free throws but you are of potentially shooting significantly better granny style?

Because it's no gurantee of shooting it better?

 

[Nori Chan]

Well, he's no longer in PHX so.....

the whole season?

giri pls

 

[Zeus Molecules]

Let's make fouling Dwight in the 4th an automatic technical!

stahp the rest of your laker brethren are taking you serious..

 

[giri]

giri pls

Hill. Amare. Nash. Jermaine. Redd. Shaq.

Play in PHX, career revived, leave PHX, permanently injured.

 

[Blackace]

I was thinking a lot about the parade to the free throw line that happens in basketball.

What would you guys think of a rule that reduced the shot-clock to ten seconds in the final minute of a game? I think it would cut intentional fouling significantly.

Generally I'd like to get rid of intentional fouling altogether. I'd like to see a rule that awarded a team free throws and possession if their player was fouled away from the ball in a manner that was deemed to be intentional. But reducing the length of the shot clock in crunch time could help prevent a team from running out the clock with a small lead.

i literally laughed out loud at how stupid this was.

.

 

[reilo]

If diehard and I agree on something, you know you done fucked up, right?

 

[giri]

If diehard and I agree on something, you know you done fucked up, right?

I'm more amazed you all got trolled by puddles YET AGAIN.

 

[reilo]

I'm more amazed you all got trolled by puddles YET AGAIN.

The unfortunate sadness of it all is that he's not a troll.

 

[Puddles]

If diehard and I agree on something, you know you done fucked up, right?

Meh. At the very least, the changes I'm proposing would make games more entertaining.

I think sports fans tend to be pretty conservative about rule changes. I advocated a Texas Hold-Em rule change to reduce split pots by giving a tiebreaker to whoever had the best hand pre-flop, but that got laughed down too.

Someday people will see.

 

[Dominican Power]

Puddles' work in The Breaking Bad thread is of epic proportions.

 

[giri]

The unfortunate sadness of it all is that he's not a troll.

Oh, he is. You just get suckered every time.

I suspect it's just an alt account really.

 

[Gully State]

Because it's no gurantee of shooting it better?

There maybe no guarantees which is why I said potentially but I don't see a legitimate reason not to try it given the two individuals that did do it was either the best FT shooter ever (Rick Barry) or a 6'11- PF/C that improved his FT% by almost more than 20% over his career (George Johnson -went from 40% to 80% at his peak but hovered around high 60% and mid 70% the rest of his career).

The N is small because of vanity issues not actual efficacy...

 

[Zeus Molecules]

Meh. At the very least, the changes I'm proposing would make games more entertaining.

I think sports fans tend to be pretty conservative about rule changes. I advocated a Texas Hold-Em rule change to reduce split pots by giving a tiebreaker to whoever had the best hand pre-flop, but that got laughed down too.

Someday people will see.

That is way to time consuming and prone to fuckery a rule change for my taste.

 

[Puddles]

If Dwight could shoot even 60%, that would push the expected points/100 possessions of intentionally fouling him up to 120 and eliminate it as a viable tactic. The median points for 100 possessions in the NBA is 101.2, which means even 55% would still produce a positive expected win total.

Dwight shot above .590 from the line for seven out of his first eight years in the league. It's really only the last two years that he's been absolutely horrible. 49% last year, 46.5% this year. 59.6% in 2010-11. The Lakers would probably be something like 10-5 if he was shooting 59.6% this year. At the very least they'd be over .500.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Wilt shot underhand in the years where he missed the most free throws of any player ever, it can easily not work and changing free throw form can hurt a lot of guy's percentages.

 

[Red Blaster]

If Dwight could shoot even 60%, that would push the expected points/100 possessions of intentionally fouling him up to 120 and eliminate it as a viable tactic. The median points for 100/possessions in the NBA is 101.2, which means even 55% would still produce a positive expected win total.

Dwight shot above .590 from the line for seven out of his first eight years in the league. It's really only the last two years that he's been absolutely horrible. 49% last year, 46.5% this year. 59.6% in 2010-11. The Lakers would probably be something like 10-5 if he was shooting 59.6% this year. At the very least they'd be over .500.

I'm sure if Dwight practices he'll be okay

 

[diehard]

how do you know so much about old ass basketball

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

how do you know so much about old ass basketball

Watching and reading about old games.

RealGM has a nice archive of games and stories and they're check out sometimes.

 

[Liquidsnake]

i literally laughed out loud at how stupid this was.

They said the same thing when the 3 point line was introduced.

 

[ph33nix]

Meh. At the very least, the changes I'm proposing would make games more entertaining.

I think sports fans tend to be pretty conservative about rule changes. I advocated a Texas Hold-Em rule change to reduce split pots by giving a tiebreaker to whoever had the best hand pre-flop, but that got laughed down too.

Someday people will see.

This. Explains. Everything.

 

[Gully State]

Wilt shot underhand in the years where he missed the most free throws of any player ever, it can easily not work and changing free throw form can hurt a lot of guy's percentages.

All I'm reading so far is that he kinda half assed tried it...it sorta worked (apparently he shot his FT's underhanded for his 100 point game), sorta didn't and he gave it up.

Anyways, my original question is why do players feel that it's such an embarrassing way to shoot? I just don't get what's so "sissy" about it if you can't make your free throws at a decent clip in the first place..

 

[DY_nasty]

All I'm reading so far is that he kinda half assed tried it...it sorta worked (apparently he shot his FT's underhanded for his 100 point game), sorta didn't and he gave it up.

Anyways, my original question is why do players feel that it's such an embarrassing way to shoot? I just don't get what's so "sissy" about it if you can't make your free throws at a decent clip in the first place..

Image is everything

 

[Puddles]

This. Explains. Everything.

It is so dumb when a guy with a complete bullshit hand lucks out into a split pot because the river card turned the board into a flush or some crap like that.

 

[MorisUkunRasik]

This. Explains. Everything.

He also believes Skyler is pure unadultered evil and Saint Walter needs to kill her for the good of his family.

 

[exarkun]

Unless he's aggressive and attempts to drive to the hoop, he will have a shit game just standing in the corner waiting for a shot. His confidence is all over the place.

One game he looks pretty damn decent and the next game he looks god awful and scared running the O.

Also I'm still happy to this day the Rockets never got whiny Gasol. Total bitch and I don't think I could have ever rooted for him.

Hes one of the best, if not the best, passing big men in the game. Pair him with a center that will defer to him for offense in the paint and I think it will be a different result.

His whininess is a result of being put in a situation where he can't fully utilize his skill set. Odom-Gasol was great, he just needs to not be playing duncan-ish type games with 15 ft shots being the norm. On the Rockets he could be a very valuable piece. Look at P-Pat. He's starting to have a good year because Asik is a beast on the boards, they pass it around and find Pat for the 10-5 fter (barring his occasional three).

It could work. Lakers fans blaming gasol is just ghastly.

 

[Future PhaZe]

Dwight is just trash at FT's and you can't ever fix it so just give up.

Just do what the Shaq era Lakers did: Let Shaq get teams in trouble and then let Kobe close the games while the other team is in the penalty.

This Lakers team is a mess though. We'll see how much Nash can clean things up.

Gasol isn't a PF. He's a center. He's most effective as a post option, likes to pass out of the post to the 4 who can knock down jumpers, he guards C's better than PF's.

Dude is a Center. That's why he did work with the Lakers and won 2 chips...cuz Bynum was never playing C because he has no knees.

 

[Blackace]

Puddles is pretty much Cloving II

 

[fredrancour]

It is so dumb when a guy with a complete bullshit hand lucks out into a split pot because the river card turned the board into a flush or some crap like that.

Getting the cards in your hand was luck in the first place. If you think this is dumb stop playing any game with any aspect of chance

 

[Adam Blade]

Puddles is pretty much Cloving II

But Puddles isn't Jewish doe.

 

[Doomsayer]

Meh. At the very least, the changes I'm proposing would make games more entertaining.

I think sports fans tend to be pretty conservative about rule changes. I advocated a Texas Hold-Em rule change to reduce split pots by giving a tiebreaker to whoever had the best hand pre-flop, but that got laughed down too.

Someday people will see.

What the fuck is this shit?

 

[Blackace]

Hes one of the best, if not the best, passing big men in the game. Pair him with a center that will defer to him for offense in the paint and I think it will be a different result.

His whininess is a result of being put in a situation where he can't fully utilize his skill set. Odom-Gasol was great, he just needs to not be playing duncan-ish type games with 15 ft shots being the norm. On the Rockets he could be a very valuable piece. Look at P-Pat. He's starting to have a good year because Asik is a beast on the boards, they pass it around and find Pat for the 10-5 fter (barring his occasional three).

It could work. Lakers fans blaming gasol is just ghastly.

He got blocked like 7 times in one game

And his knees are bad which usually indicates the beginning of the end for big men

 

[SamuraiX-]

Puddles is pretty much Cloving II

I knew the last page of posts had a depressingly familiar feeling to it.

 

[Puddles]

What the fuck is this shit?

I have never understood this reaction. Not to turn this into a poker discussion, but I do play a fair amount, and I can't say I've ever seen a split pot where the river card caused the split that didn't feel like complete bullshit. Yet when I suggest a modest rule change to prevent this, people react as though I suggested expanding flushes to include all blacks or all reds.

I knew the last page of posts had a depressingly familiar feeling to it.

Ridiculous. Cloving and myself are two of the most knowledgeable and insightful members of NBA-GAF.

 

[Adam Blade]

I have never understood this reaction. Not to turn this into a poker discussion, but I do play a fair amount, and I can't say I've ever seen a split pot where the river card caused the split that didn't feel like complete bullshit. Yet when I suggest a modest rule change to prevent this, people react as though I suggested expanding flushes to include all blacks or all reds.



Ridiculous. Cloving and myself are two of the most knowledgeable and insightful members of NBA-GAF.

Is that why you and he used to go on Faker game dates together?

 

[Blackace]

Ridiculous. Cloving and myself are two of the most knowledgeable and insightful members of NBA-GAF.

Don't make me ban you until 2013

 

[exarkun]

He got blocked like 7 times in one game

And his knees are bad which usually indicates the beginning of the end for big men

You dont think its because of the defense packing the paint because both him and dwight are on the floor? Or are you saying getting his shot going takes too long, and because of his lack of athletic ability it allows the defenders time to get in and block the shot.