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2013 Feb NBA Season lOT| Controlling it like a man, bruh
- Thread starter reilo
- Start date
I had totally forgot about Vince being a Net.
iamshadowlark
Banned
The Bulls just signed Rose to a max contract, you think they want to rush him back jsut so they could get bounced from the playoffs? I mean most people were saying he was gonna be out for about a year when it happened.
Red Blaster
Member
Also Vince can fuck off
he only had to be average in the playoffs with the Magic, not good, just average
but he couldn't even do that
he only had to be average in the playoffs with the Magic, not good, just average
but he couldn't even do that
Even Jason Kidd forgot about being a Net.
I agree with this, in the sense that he had the tools to be a legend. He definitely had injury problems, and he wasn't always on teams that used him to the best of his abilities or gave him the right opportunities. He also never had the drive that powers true legends. That said, not sure anyone else still playing today gave me more "jesus christ what did he just do" moments than a young Vince. Guy was amazing.
theignoramus
Member
the latest salvo from the KD > Lebron club of stupidity: the Win Share argument.
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/54639/lebron-on-a-run-but-still-behind-durant
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/54639/lebron-on-a-run-but-still-behind-durant
Heart Attack
Member
Jason Kidd's Nets were such an exciting team.
bah humbug
I take it as a compliment that LeBron has a great argument as MVP--if you take LBJ and KD away from their respective teams, I think the Heat are definitely worse.
I don't give a shit if KD wins MVP. I only care if the Thunder win a title.
LBJ should win MVP every year until he's clearly in decline, IMO. He took some scrubtastic Cavs teams to 60 wins and the NBA Finals. KD couldn't have done that.
I don't give a shit if KD wins MVP. I only care if the Thunder win a title.
LBJ should win MVP every year until he's clearly in decline, IMO. He took some scrubtastic Cavs teams to 60 wins and the NBA Finals. KD couldn't have done that.
In that East? KD could 100% do that. And Wade + Bosh would still be a playoff team.
Before 2008? Sure.
60 wins is hard in any conference.
KD is fantastic, even historically so, in his own way. But he isn't capable of elevating trash as well as LBJ does. It's the passing ability.
And I agree that Bosh plus Wade is a playoff team in the East, but that's a hilariously low standard.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
I'd want to forget sweeping the Knicks and getting jobbed by the refs against Detroit too.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Percentage of games won against Eastern Conference teams: 75%
Against West: 82%
That's for the Cavs teams that LeBron won MVP with.
iamshadowlark
Banned
Yeah, I don't see it. I don't think you realize how much lebron had to do for that team. I mean Mo Williams was the starting point.
No way in hell KD, even in his current form, could regularly get offensive stiffs like varejo, hickson or Wally regularly involved with easy scores.
shira
Member
I don't think so. He was not the guy to take the final shot for the win. Yes he could dunk, but whatever special sauce Kobe and Jordan had to win games and get ref calls is probably half or 25%
But he didn't chip with the Nets.
reggieandTFE
Member
You see, this is when you say dumb ass shit and no once calls you out. The Bulls are leading the league in attendance again and there are consistently huge swaths of Bulls red when they're on the road.
Drive by fatality. Self inflicted wounds.
Shane Battier had more votes for the All Star game than Luol Deng. Shane Battier.
Keep swinging, baby. Keep swinging.
MorisUkunRasik
Member
People trying to rewrite history and say those Cavs teams were garbage again?
"Who else was on that team?No one!"
"Mo Williams was the 2nd best player there. Mo Williams!"
That team was built around Bron like Dirk's Mavs.
He had tons of good spot up shooters to dish to. People try to write off 08/09 Mo Williams even though he was 18pts/4ast shooting 46% including 44% from 3.
Delonte West averaged 11 and 3 shooting 40% from 3. Varejao was a decent 8pts 7rebounds. Big Z averaged 13 and 7. Even Daniel Gibson averaged 8 points a game.
With how Bron has progressed, I think he probably could have chipped in Cleveland if the FO had been just a bit better.
"Who else was on that team?No one!"
"Mo Williams was the 2nd best player there. Mo Williams!"
That team was built around Bron like Dirk's Mavs.
He had tons of good spot up shooters to dish to. People try to write off 08/09 Mo Williams even though he was 18pts/4ast shooting 46% including 44% from 3.
Delonte West averaged 11 and 3 shooting 40% from 3. Varejao was a decent 8pts 7rebounds. Big Z averaged 13 and 7. Even Daniel Gibson averaged 8 points a game.
With how Bron has progressed, I think he probably could have chipped in Cleveland if the FO had been just a bit better.
Red Blaster
Member
Tyson Chandler and Shawn Marion were way above anyone on those Cavs teams
captmcblack
Member
Those Cavs teams were one consistent second/third option away from a chip.
Those players placed around LBJ were average to above average players, and were definitely improved by LBJ's presence/playmaking - but come playoff time, when defenses sent 2/3 guys to cover him, those other players were supposed to step up and knock shots down. They didn't, so the Cavs lost.
If the Cavs FO could get him one more guy so that they didn't have to hope Mo Williams could be a consistent second playoff option, they'd have won.
Those players placed around LBJ were average to above average players, and were definitely improved by LBJ's presence/playmaking - but come playoff time, when defenses sent 2/3 guys to cover him, those other players were supposed to step up and knock shots down. They didn't, so the Cavs lost.
If the Cavs FO could get him one more guy so that they didn't have to hope Mo Williams could be a consistent second playoff option, they'd have won.
:jnc Dirk had Tyson holding down the block. Plus, Jason Kidd and Jason Terry outside were more dependable than Mo Williams and Antawn Jamison ever were in Cleveland.
By the end, they were relying on a 400 lb. Shaq, Iglauskas literally couldn't jump at all and AJ was bricking open jumpshots non-stop. And this was when Varejao was just brainless energy.
I still remember that Game 3 in ECF where nobody on Cleveland could make a bucket to save their lives, and Brown refused to get JJ Hickson in there when he was at least scoring off putbacks.
Jesus Christ himself could not have chipped with perennial losers Mo Williams and Antaawn Jamison as key contributors.
MorisUkunRasik
Member
They fit Dallas' scheme better, Dallas also had a better roster strategy than Cavs' "surround Bron with shooters"
As individual players I agree on Tyson but 10/11 Marion being better than 08/09 Mo is debatable. Mo is broken now but he had a great season that year.
iamshadowlark
Banned
Some combo of Jamison, mo, west, boobie, Parker, Wally, hickson, powe, varejo, Wallace, and Big Z is what made up those teams. Are you really saying that squad is anything but garbage? There's one maybe two players who could do anything on their own.
You really don't have to rewrite history at all. Bron elevated a mediocre at best roster to contender status.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Mo Williams is so bad now that I can't really ever look back on him being good.
This is the 4th straight year where he's gotten injured or traded and his team has improved their winning percentage with him out.
His decision making is unbelievably bad.
When you get replaced by 2011 Baron Davis and 2013 Jamaal Tinsley and your team has no negative effect to their winning percentage...
This is the 4th straight year where he's gotten injured or traded and his team has improved their winning percentage with him out.
His decision making is unbelievably bad.
When you get replaced by 2011 Baron Davis and 2013 Jamaal Tinsley and your team has no negative effect to their winning percentage...
Cleveland sucks and did a piss-poor job of building around him. 7 years, man. If they were just one consistent piece away from chipping, and couldn't find that in 7 years, then there's no reason to think he'd ever have chipped there. Maybe KG should've stayed in Minny for another contract. That team made the WCF before, so they must have been pretty good too, right? PEACE.
Maybe five years ago, but the depth at PG in the league is good enough to where Mo Williams doesn't amount to much.
The point is that you ain't winning shit when he's your second option. I'd rather have Andre Miller, at least he knows his damn limitations.
Alternatively, that TWolves team with Spree, Cassell and KG...was a weird team to watch.
I love Andre, and the one thing he absolutely doesn't know is his limitations. He just happens to play smart basketball.
captmcblack
Member
Yeah, I don't think anyone is arguing that Mo Williams was a scrub.
I think the argument is that even peak Mo Williams can't be the second-best player on a club that's going to win a title...even if the best player on that club is LBJ.
A more interesting argument would be if current perfect LBJ is strong enough of a player now to carry such a Cavs team to a title. I'd love to see that, actually.
I think the argument is that even peak Mo Williams can't be the second-best player on a club that's going to win a title...even if the best player on that club is LBJ.
A more interesting argument would be if current perfect LBJ is strong enough of a player now to carry such a Cavs team to a title. I'd love to see that, actually.
Still. If the Cavs had chipped, Mo would have had to be one of the worst second options ever on a title team.
@captmcblack If you took LBJ away from the Heat and magically reassembled the best LBJ-era Cavs teams, they would definitely make the Finals this year. They'd probably lose to OKC or SA in the Finals, though.
Red Blaster
Member
Mo Gotti was little more than a spot-up shooter to receive the ball on Bron's kickouts back then
also LeBron was much dumber in those days; would constantly pound the ball at the top of the key for 15 seconds and take long twos
also LeBron was much dumber in those days; would constantly pound the ball at the top of the key for 15 seconds and take long twos
MorisUkunRasik
Member
Peak Mo was a fringe 2nd option. I don't think he ever was good enough to be considered that, but he was close 08/09.
People are letting his current state fuck with what he was in Cleveland.
The fuck are you even talking about?
People are letting his current state fuck with what he was in Cleveland.
The fuck are you even talking about?
Maybe you could use Babelfish to translate it into retard for you, Moris. I'm not about to explain plain english to fans of lottery teams. PEACE.
MorisUkunRasik
Member
As if anyone gives a fuck what you have to say.
Controlling it like a man, bruh. You truly are the YNB of GAF.
He really isn't that bad, his decision making isn't great but his shooting still helps. We haven't really felt the loss mostly because of the schedule, but some games like that Chicago game we really missed him.
Up there with the '94 Rockets.
Gotdam '94 Rockets.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
They could have had Amare for Hickson right at the end of his prime. Surely that would have been enough to beat the C's and Vince/Dwight Magic, right?