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2013 NBA Finals |OT| The "Big 3" looks to hang another banner... against the Heat

V

Vahagn

Member
Btw, the excellent Bill Simmons Article about Duncan made me catch something he pointed out.


Duncan's Finals MVP in 2005 might be the worst Finals MVP Ever. His numbers


20.6 ppg
14.1 rpg
2.1 apg
2.4 tpg
0.4 spg
2.1 bpg
41.9% FG
0% 3pt FG
66.7% FT


By contrast, Kobe's worst performance in the finals a year earlier against the same Pistons

22.6 ppg
2.8 rpg
4.4 apg
3.6 tpg
1.8 spg
0.6 bpg
38% FG
17% 3pt FG
92% FT


I mean, Kobe's worse...but barely...and Duncan won Finals MVP with those numbers
 
1

1871

Member
Vahagn said:
Btw, the excellent Bill Simmons Article about Duncan made me catch something he pointed out.


Duncan's Finals MVP in 2005 might be the worst Finals MVP Ever. His numbers


20.6 ppg
14.1 rpg
2.1 apg
2.4 tpg
0.4 spg
2.1 bpg
41.9% FG
0% 3pt FG
66.7% FT


By contrast, Kobe's worst performance in the finals a year earlier against the same Pistons

22.6 ppg
2.8 rpg
4.4 apg
3.6 tpg
1.8 spg
0.6 bpg
38% FG
17% 3pt FG
92% FT


I mean, Kobe's worse...but barely...and Duncan won Finals MVP with those numbers
Click to expand...

God fucking damn it what a master class troll

So fucking clueless about the game and its history.

20/14/2 and it's the worst ever.

Damn. Everything that's been said about you is true.
 
I

I am Michael Bolton

Banned
Vahagn said:
Btw, the excellent Bill Simmons Article about Duncan made me catch something he pointed out.


Duncan's Finals MVP in 2005 might be the worst Finals MVP Ever. His numbers


20.6 ppg
14.1 rpg
2.1 apg
2.4 tpg
0.4 spg
2.1 bpg
41.9% FG
0% 3pt FG
66.7% FT


By contrast, Kobe's worst performance in the finals a year earlier against the same Pistons

22.6 ppg
2.8 rpg
4.4 apg
3.6 tpg
1.8 spg
0.6 bpg
38% FG
17% 3pt FG
92% FT


I mean, Kobe's worse...but barely...and Duncan won Finals MVP with those numbers
Click to expand...

14rpg is terrible? Keep eating that Kobe beef.
 
V

Vahagn

Member
1871 said:
God fucking damn it what a master class troll

So fucking clueless about the game and its history.

20/14/2 and it's the worst ever.

Damn. Everything that's been said about you is true.
Click to expand...

It's clearly the worst ever. The rebounds are impressive.


He has a worse assist/to ratio than Kobe. Less points. Worse TS%, same amount of steals+blocks.

Rebounds are his only saving grace. Everything else on that list of stats is pure shit for a Finals MVP and you know it.


The only reason I compare it to Kobe is because that Kobe performance was abysmal against the same team yet the numbers look almost identical. If you can look at those numbers, and not see how poorly TD played in comparison to other Finals MVP's there's really nothing left to say.

And that's fine, just wanted to leave that here.
 
P

PBY

Banned
Vahagn said:
It's clearly the worst ever. The rebounds are impressive.


He has a worse assist/to ratio than Kobe. Less points. Worse TS%, same amount of steals+blocks.

Rebounds are his only saving grace. Everything else on that list of stats is pure shit for a Finals MVP and you know it.
Click to expand...
Dat double down
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
Vahagn said:
It's clearly the worst ever. The rebounds are impressive.


He has a worse assist/to ratio than Kobe. Less points. Worse TS%, same amount of steals+blocks.

Rebounds are his only saving grace. Everything else on that list of stats is pure shit for a Finals MVP and you know it.
Click to expand...

And Duncan's defense?

Tony Parker's MVP is way worse since it belonged to Duncan that year.
 
I

I am Michael Bolton

Banned
Vahagn said:
It's clearly the worst ever. The rebounds are impressive.


He has a worse assist/to ratio than Kobe. Less points. Worse TS%, same amount of steals+blocks.

Rebounds are his only saving grace. Everything else on that list of stats is pure shit for a Finals MVP and you know it.
Click to expand...

Atleast Tim Duncan never gave up on his team in the playoffs like Kobe did vs the Suns.
 
V

Vahagn

Member
You guys are really defending


20/14/2 on 42% shooting for a big with no 3 pointers made and 66% FT shooting and an assist to turnover ratio of below 1.0 as a legitimate Finals MVP?


14 rebounds is the only impressive thing there, everything else is abysmal.
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
Vahagn said:
You guys are really defending


20/14/2 on 42% shooting for a big with no 3 pointers made and 66% FT shooting and an assist to turnover ratio of below 1.0 as a legitimate Finals MVP?


14 rebounds is the only impressive thing there, everything else is abysmal.
Click to expand...

tumblr_mnem37FSBv1qfctb0o1_500.png
 
V

Vahagn

Member
I am Michael Bolton said:
Atleast Tim Duncan never gave up on his team in the playoffs like Kobe did vs the Suns.
Click to expand...

by your definition of "giving up"...Lebron James has given up on his team 32 times already and you continue to root for him.


And I didn't know scoring 50 in game 6, and 15 in the first half of game 7 meant giving up. So he "gave up" in one half, of one blowout game.

Again, Lebron's done that 32 times. Lets' not get into this trolling nonsense.



I am Michael Bolton said:
I didn't even catch that. He's using assists as evidence? For Tim Duncan? Wow.
Click to expand...

No, I'm clearly using everything as evidence. It's ALL bad. 14 rebounds is a plus, everything else on that stat sheet is pure shit.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
Vahagn said:
You guys are really defending


20/14/2 on 42% shooting for a big with no 3 pointers made and 66% FT shooting and an assist to turnover ratio of below 1.0 as a legitimate Finals MVP?


14 rebounds is the only impressive thing there, everything else is abysmal.
Click to expand...

It was a defensive series. Spurs and Pistons were like 2 of the best defenses ever at the time.
 
I

I am Michael Bolton

Banned
Vahagn said:
by your definition of "giving up"...Lebron James has given up on his team 32 times already and you continue to root for him.


And I didn't know scoring 50 in game 6, and 15 in the first half of game 7 meant giving up. So he "gave up" in one half, of one blowout game.

Again, Lebron's done that 32 times. Lets' not get into this trolling nonsense.





No, I'm clearly using everything as evidence. It's ALL bad. 14 rebounds is a plus, everything else on that stat sheet is pure shit.
Click to expand...

LeBron has given up 32 times? How do you come up with that number? Also, do you defend Kobe giving up on his team?
 
V

Vahagn

Member
Black Mamba said:
It was a defensive series. Spurs and Pistons were like 2 of the best defenses ever at the time.
Click to expand...

tell me honestly, that you knew that he was that bad in that series. That he scored so few points, that he was so horribly inefficient...because I didn't.


Again, if you had no idea the outcome of either of those two series, and you saw those two box composite box scores you'd think they played pretty much equally badly. But one guy gets clowned forever for the stats, the other guy got Finals MVP.


if Pistons win that series, we look at that entire series as Tim Duncan dropping the ball and failing for his team.
 
I

I am Michael Bolton

Banned
Vahagn said:
tell me honestly, that you knew that he was that bad in that series. That he scored so few points, that he was so horribly inefficient...because I didn't.


Again, if you had no idea the outcome of either of those two series, and you saw those two box composite box scores you'd think they played pretty much equally badly. But one guy gets clowned forever for the stats, the other guy got Finals MVP.


if Pistons win that series, we look at that entire series as Tim Duncan dropping the ball and failing for his team.
Click to expand...

And if Pau and Artest didn't rescue Kobe in 2010 game 7 we look at Kobe as having dropped the ball yet again in the finals.
 
V

Vahagn

Member
I am Michael Bolton said:
And if Pau and Artest didn't rescue Kobe in 2010 game 7 we look at Kobe as having dropped the ball yet again in the finals.
Click to expand...

why I bolded "entire series" - Kobe had a bad game 7 (got 15 rebounds though so per your TD 14 rebound ball washing he was AMAZEBALLS)...TD stunk up the whole series.
 
S

Sharp

Member
Vahgan, since you don't seem to be aware, let me enlighten you on some of the differences between guards and bigs.

* Guards tend to have higher TS% (thanks to higher FT%).
* Bigs tend to have higher FG%, since they mostly score around the paint.
* Guards tend to have way higher USG%, hence score more points.
* Guards almost universally have better AST / TO ratios than bigs. Most bigs have terrible handles, which is why they are not usually distributors and part of what made Magic so amazing.
* Guards almost always have more steals than bigs. They are faster and can get their hands on the ball more easily, and when they do are better able to control it.
* Bigs tend to have more blocks than guards, 'cause they're tall.
* Bigs tend to have more rebounds than guards... 'cause they're tall.

And by far the most important difference between guards and bigs, which you are *totally* missing:
* Bigs have so much more influence on the game defensively that even comparing them to guards in that category is laughable.

It's that last point that's the reason that a lot of statheads have Kareem about MJ. Duncan's defense was / is also by far his most important contribution to the Spurs. People are talking about Kawhi Leonard as MVP of this series, why do you think that is?

In summation, I have absolutely no idea why you thought that the stats you listed were even relevant to this discussion.
 
V

Vahagn

Member
The fact that the two played in back to back Finals series against the same team. And the fact that the stats look incredibly similar once you factor in the basic differences in guards/bigs


TD got more rebounds and blocks. Kobe got more steals and assists...it makes the comparison apt.


The fact that you guys are trolling, just to troll is sad. If I put "Player A" and "Player B" and didn't tell you guys who they were, or what the contexts were, it would look like a typical Bill Simmons article comparing two players with similarly bad numbers except for the rebounds.
 
V

Vahagn

Member
Sharp said:
Vahgan, since you don't seem to be aware, let me enlighten you on some of the differences between guards and bigs.

* Guards tend to have higher TS% (thanks to higher FT%).
* Bigs tend to have higher FG%, since they mostly score around the paint.
* Guards tend to have way higher USG%, hence score more points.
* Guards almost universally have better AST / TO ratios than bigs. Most bigs have terrible handles, which is why they are not usually distributors and part of what made Magic so amazing.
* Guards almost always have more steals than bigs. They are faster and can get their hands on the ball more easily, and when they do are better able to control it.
* Bigs tend to have more blocks than guards, 'cause they're tall.
* Bigs tend to have more rebounds than guards... 'cause they're tall.

And by far the most important difference between guards and bigs, which you are *totally* missing:
* Bigs have so much more influence on the game defensively that even comparing them to guards in that category is laughable.

It's that last point that's the reason that a lot of statheads have Kareem about MJ. Duncan's defense was / is also by far his most important contribution to the Spurs. People are talking about Kawhi Leonard as MVP of this series, why do you think that is?

In summation, I have absolutely no idea why you thought that the stats you listed were even relevant to this discussion.
Click to expand...


This is absurd. Everyone knows the differences but you're wrong on a few points that don't need getting into.


If you don't look at those two box scores, and see the similarly horrible production, that's fine, they look awfully similar to me.
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
MorisUkunRasik said:
I've always wondered what someone thought about Kobe in contrast to everything. I'm glad Vahagn is around.
Click to expand...

Did you see Kobayashi win another hot dog contest?

Vaggy said:
It was like watching Kobe drop 81 points.

Kobeyashi!!
Click to expand...

Hey, remember in Star Trek '09 how Kirk cheated on the Kobayashi Maru test?

Vaggy said:
It was reminiscent how the league cheated Kobe out of a MVP and gave it to Nash.

Kobeyashi Maru!!!
Click to expand...

I ate a great steak last night. It was prime kobe beef.

Vaggy said:
Did you know Prime Kobe scored 35PPG?
Click to expand...
 
1

1871

Member
Vahagn said:
The fact that the two played in back to back Finals series against the same team. And the fact that the stats look incredibly similar once you factor in the basic differences in guards/bigs


TD got more rebounds and blocks. Kobe got more steals and assists...it makes the comparison apt.


The fact that you guys are trolling, just to troll is sad. If I put "Player A" and "Player B" and didn't tell you guys who they were, or what the contexts were, it would look like a typical Bill Simmons article comparing two players with similarly bad numbers except for the rebounds.
Click to expand...

Except for the rebounds, the blocks, the turnovers, the field goal percentage, etc.

You're terrible. I seriously believe something is wrong in your head. If it's psychological, it's fueled by some uncontrollable desire to get fucked like a Colorado girl.
 
D

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
1871 said:
Except for the rebounds, the blocks, the turnovers, the field goal percentage, etc.

You're terrible. I seriously believe something is wrong in your head. If it's psychological, it's fueled by some uncontrollable desire to get fucked like a Colorado girl.
Click to expand...

o m g
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
1871 said:
Except for the rebounds, the blocks, the turnovers, the field goal percentage, etc.

You're terrible. I seriously believe something is wrong in your head. If it's psychological, it's fueled by some uncontrollable desire to get fucked like a Colorado girl.
Click to expand...

(I) Fuck with your soul like ether
(Will) Teach you the king you know you
(Not) "God's son" across the belly
(Lose) I prove you lost already
 
S

Sharp

Member
Vahagn said:
This is absurd. Everyone knows the differences but you're wrong on a few points that don't need getting into.
Click to expand...
Get into them, please. I didn't look up any of that, so I could totally have been wrong on some things. Be specific!
If you don't look at those two box scores, and see the similarly horrible production, that's fine, they look awfully similar to me.
Click to expand...
The reason I don't like basketball statistics is that basketball box scores are a pretty bad way of determining player value. Especially when they're presented in isolation like you're doing. If you don't see why it is a bad idea to determine who the "worst Finals MVP" was based on that, I'm not going to argue with you anymore, because there just isn't any point.
 
V

Vahagn

Member
1871 said:
Except for the rebounds, the blocks, the turnovers, the field goal percentage, etc.

You're terrible. I seriously believe something is wrong in your head. If it's psychological, it's fueled by some uncontrollable desire to get fucked like a Colorado girl.
Click to expand...

Now you're the one who doesn't know the difference between guards and bigs.


He got more rebounds, less TO's, more blocks, and shot a higher FG percentage because he's a big.

But outside of the rebounds, everything is similar. FG% is 4% difference and they're both horrible. Less TO's, but it's balanced by less assists. More blocks, but it's balanced by less steals. In fact. Blocks+Steals is 2.4 vs. 2.5...pretty much identical there too.


And the 4% FG increase which is still horrible you're just too much of a troll to admit it, is balanced by Kobe shooting significantly higher from the FT line and converting on 3 point shots.


So...congrats...your ability to analyze data is really really really porous
 
D

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
It takes a certain kind of person to go at Tim Duncan's MVP season in this particular way.
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
You know what the difference between Timmy in '05 and Kobe in '04 was? Timmy won.
 
Z

Zeus Molecules

illegal immigrants are stealing our air
1871 said:
Except for the rebounds, the blocks, the turnovers, the field goal percentage, etc.

You're terrible. I seriously believe something is wrong in your head. If it's psychological, it's fueled by some uncontrollable desire to get fucked like a Colorado girl.
Click to expand...

smile-shock.gif
 
V

Vahagn

Member
DY_nasty said:
It takes a certain kind of person to go at Tim Duncan's MVP season in this particular way.
Click to expand...

Best player in the league that year bar none.


Horrible Finals performance. If Shaq got those numbers, you guys would be clowning regularly.


I pointed out something that I didn't know, something that Simmons pointed out, and when compared to Kobe's horrible horrible performance the year before, stacks up pretty damn closely.


It may not be the worst ever, but it's the worst in recent memory that's for sure.
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
Shaq got far worse numbers in '06 and nobody clowned him: 13.7PPG, 10.2RPG, 3.2TO, 60FG%, 29FT% (8FTA!!!)

Eat all the dicks.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
Vahagn said:
Best player in the league that year bar none.


Horrible Finals performance. If Shaq got those numbers, you guys would be clowning regularly.


I pointed out something that I didn't know, something that Simmons pointed out, and when compared to Kobe's horrible horrible performance the year before, stacks up pretty damn closely.


It may not be the worst ever, but it's the worst in recent memory that's for sure.
Click to expand...

t3CF25z.gif
 
V

Vahagn

Member
1871 - clever Colorado line. Good to see your right brain works because your left brain most definitely doesn't.


reilo said:
Shaq got far worse numbers in '06 and nobody clowned him: 13.7PPG, 10.2RPG, 3.2TO, 60FG%, 29FT% (8FTA!!!)

Eat all the dicks.
Click to expand...

Did he win Finals MVP along with those numbers? Or did we go "Oh it's ok...he's passed his prime anyway"


And no, I'm not homophobic like you
 
T

ThisWreckage

Banned
Vahagn said:
Btw, the excellent Bill Simmons Article about Duncan made me catch something he pointed out.


Duncan's Finals MVP in 2005 might be the worst Finals MVP Ever. His numbers


20.6 ppg
14.1 rpg
2.1 apg
2.4 tpg
0.4 spg
2.1 bpg
41.9% FG
0% 3pt FG
66.7% FT


By contrast, Kobe's worst performance in the finals a year earlier against the same Pistons

22.6 ppg
2.8 rpg
4.4 apg
3.6 tpg
1.8 spg
0.6 bpg
38% FG
17% 3pt FG
92% FT


I mean, Kobe's worse...but barely...and Duncan won Finals MVP with those numbers
Click to expand...

Don't gloss over the fact that Kobe doesn't play defense. Duncan is a defensive anchor and Kobe's defense is a fully intact Achilles heel.
 
E

Emwitus

Member
Greyface said:
It's a damn shame Kobe is never going to face off against Lebron in the playoffs.
Click to expand...

The internets would explode and shadowlark vs vahagn would be amazing.

1871 said:
Except for the rebounds, the blocks, the turnovers, the field goal percentage, etc.

You're terrible. I seriously believe something is wrong in your head. If it's psychological, it's fueled by some uncontrollable desire to get fucked like a Colorado girl.
Click to expand...

misfits.gif
 
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