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[Fixed2BeBroken]

Not necessarily saying that LeBron specifically wanted Love, just that he wanted veteran help. I think he and the Cavs planned to trade Wiggins from jump to accomplish this, as he was their biggest trade chip. It might seem trivial, but the fact that the number 1 pick, and guy with a ton of hype and promise and people have been anticipating entering the league since he was 16 years old, was not mentioned in his "I'm coming home" letter speaks volumes to me.

the fact that they held Wiggins so close to the chest speaks volumes to me as well. My thinking is, Lebron didn't include him in his letter because he didn't know if he would be on the team or not. That he was open to him being traded if necessary, but if he can be kept and still get veteran help then so be it. thus why Wiggins was kept close to the chest and that trigger took so long to get pulled. but I truly believe Lebron was going to go home regardless, and the organization was going to work with him because of it. Lebron kept dropping hints that Whole season before they lost to the Spurs.


either way, again, if Love isn't with the Cavs next season, trade was worthless.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

the fact that they held Wiggins so close to the chest speaks volumes to me as well. My thinking is, Lebron didn't include him in his letter because he didn't know if he would be on the team or not. That he was open to him being traded if necessary, but if he can be kept and still get veteran help then so be it. thus why Wiggins was kept close to the chest and that trigger took so long to get pulled.

Fair enough. Ultimately it's all speculation so we'll never know. I just think LeBron felt he had been burned once by Dan Gilbert's incompetence and was going to do everything he could to ensure that every part of his return to the Cavs happened on his terms.

As for Love I don't think he'll be in Cleveland. They are going to have to re-up Thompson and it doesn't make a lot of sense to lock up two guys who play the same position to big contracts. The cap is going to kill them. There is always the chance Love opts in and gives it another go for another season. The Cavs might sniff around at a trade, maybe they can talk the Lakers into giving up Julius Randle, or get some pieces from Boston, but ultimately I think Love will walk and sign another 2 year/one year opt out with a team hoping to cash in in 2016.

 

[Fixed2BeBroken]

As for Love I don't think he'll be in Cleveland. They are going to have to re-up Thompson and it doesn't make a lot of sense to lock up two guys who play the same position to big contracts. The cap is going to kill them. There is always the chance Love opts in and gives it another go for another season. The Cavs might sniff around at a trade, maybe they can talk the Lakers into giving up Julius Randle, or get some pieces from Boston, but ultimately I think Love will walk and sign another 2 year/one year opt out with a team hoping to cash in in 2016.

Thus why I said the trade was worthless. I don't think Love will be with them next year either. They just can't pay Love max, tristan his most likely high price, AND mozgov.

if only they could trade Love back to the Wolves for Wiggins.

 

[alr1ght]

The only thing Wiggins has over Love was his cap hit. Lebron's window is closing and he and the Cavs need to win now. Cavs will trade 10 years of rebuilding for one chip.

 

[jman2050]

Wiggins is not going to be good enough to be a significant contributor to a championship team for another three seasons. Lebron did not go back to Cleveland so he could wait 4 seasons for his rookie teammate to MAYBE develop into a superstar.

 

[Fixed2BeBroken]

Wiggins is not going to be good enough to be a significant contributor to a championship team for another three seasons. Lebron did not go back to Cleveland so he could wait 4 seasons for his rookie teammate to MAYBE develop into a superstar.

RIGHT.....so....Trading for a Player who you decide not to Keep or Decides to leave makes more sense and works out to your advantage because? what?

The only thing Wiggins has over Love was his cap hit. Lebron's window is closing and he and the Cavs need to win now. Cavs will trade 10 years of rebuilding for one chip.

see above

 

[SyenceLabb]

RIGHT.....so....Trading for a Player who you decide not to Keep or Decides to leave makes more sense and works out to your advantage because? what?



see above

Do you have a crystal ball? Love already said he intends to play for the Cavs next year, anything else is pure speculation.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Random thoughts:

Warriors have to shake things up. If that means playing Lee and sacrificing something on D you have to do it. Without him they have had zero post presence on offense. He was an immediate spark for the offense. If Cavs continue to double Curry and dare the Warriors to beat them with other guys they have to play Lee more.

This is bad for the Cavs overall. While the Warriors are deep and have room to make adjustments to their offense and lineups, Cavs have no other options or plans. So you know exactly what you are going to get from them on offense and defense. Its not up to Kerr and the players to exploit it.

I think they do. Curry seemed to find some confidence at the end even though he had terrible turnovers. Lee showed what he can do. And the Cavs seem to play 2.50-3 great quarters and then either get too comfortable or run completely out of gas.

Just like the whole basketball world called the series over after game + Irving injury, I think all the hype is for the Cavs now and its going to affect them. No matter how much they claim they will block it out, they are feeling themselves right about now and will naturally let down.

I predict Warriors finally start off shooting well and win game 4 to tie 2-2.

Off topic I am a little perplexed why people keep saying the Cavs are better without Love and Irving. They are obviously not. If they were what they are doing right now wouldn't be considered impressive. Yes Love is a liability on D, but he is a great rebounder, spaces the floor, and could actually help Lebron rest by having the offense run through him. Same with Irving.

Besides its not like if you play Love and Irving, it somehow eliminates all the minutes for Delly or Thompson. That's the whole point of depth. You can play Delly and Irving together. You can play Love with Mosgov/Thompson and still be able to use all efficiently on both sides of the court.

Goes back to the Lee point- yeah he might give up points on the D but he also provides a much needed punch on offense which the Cavs might not have an answer for.

BTW who else thinks guys like Irving who are constantly hurt need to hit the weight room and work on their bodies/conditioning? While Lebron is a freak, there is something to taking care of your body. Kyrie looks like a dude who is just naturally talented and hasn't really worked on maintaining his body.

Are you saying it would be foolish to put money on the Cavs in game 4? Because I think it's not a bad chance to take. Cavs just need a good start before they fade.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

RIGHT.....so....Trading for a Player who you decide not to Keep or Decides to leave makes more sense and works out to your advantage because? what?



see above

Well that clearly wasn't the plan. The plan was for Love/Bron/Kyrie to be their core for the next 4-5 years. Didn't work out but they didn't trade Wiggins for Love with the intention of him being a one year rental. Shit just didn't work out. Ultimately if the Cavs pull this off nobody in Cleveland will care. Wiggins can become the next Tmac and no Cavs fans are going to be lamenting the Wiggins/Love deal and how it all blew up in the Cavs faces. It's all grave at that point.

 

[Omega]

It's all hindsight.

Tristan Thompson was never that special while Love is an all-star caliber player. You also don't know what you get with Wiggins either, plenty of kids have been hyped up since they were 15. I remember reading SLAM magazines about Lance Stephenson and now look at this dude, his shining moment in the NBA is blowing in someone's ear.

The whole point of the draft is to hopefully get an all-star caliber player and that trade eliminates the hopefully.

 

[Jarate]

Honestly, my thoughts on the series are that if the Warriors play like they are capable of playing, then they will win the series. They Cavs have been playing better, but I take that more as the Warriors playing like shit and the Cavs playing out of their minds. Even with that, all the games have been pretty close, so it tells me who i still think will win

Warriors are looking passive and scared though which is not good to me, but it's not surprising to see a team with Iggy on it playing passively and scared in big moments

 

[LyleLanley]

I still think Love signs a max deal with the Cavs this year or next and they end up trading him at some point.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

We know the Warriors have been missing like hell. Now we have numbers.

Ethan Strauss ‏@SherwoodStrauss 2 hours ago
Here's a stat, via SportVu. The Warriors have missed as many wide open 3s as the Cavs have taken (27)

Ethan Strauss ‏@SherwoodStrauss 2 hours ago
Cavs have hit 48% of their wide open 3s, and the Warriors have hit 25%. Golden State's getting Atlanta'd

 

[Bread]

"You can't play the if game! Anything could have happened"

"What would the Cavs be like if they had Wiggins instead of Love right now"

dude what the fuck are you talking about

 

[Omega]

Honestly, my thoughts on the series are that if the Warriors play like they are capable of playing, then they will win the series. They Cavs have been playing better, but I take that more as the Warriors playing like shit and the Cavs playing out of their minds. Even with that, all the games have been pretty close, so it tells me who i still think will win

Warriors are looking passive and scared though which is not good to me, but it's not surprising to see a team with Iggy on it playing passively and scared in big moments

Gotta love how teams are never given credit for their achievements. Unless it's someone well-known that can't take the pressure like Peyton Manning or James Harden why is "oh they're not playing like they're capable of" always the excuse?

Draymond Green is supposed to be the 'heart and soul" of that team and he looks like virgin surrounded by women on the court. Bogut is probably begging to be deported back to Australia

This team is broken right now for a reason and it's not by chance.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

We know the Warriors have been missing like hell. Now we have numbers.

Ethan Strauss ‏@SherwoodStrauss 2 hours ago
Here's a stat, via SportVu. The Warriors have missed as many wide open 3s as the Cavs have taken (27)

Ethan Strauss ‏@SherwoodStrauss 2 hours ago
Cavs have hit 48% of their wide open 3s, and the Warriors have hit 25%. Golden State's getting Atlanta'd

What a shame to be losing because a couple of guys are too nervous to hit open shots. Warriors should have hired some sports psychologists or something.

Gotta love how teams are never given credit for their achievements. Unless it's someone well-known that can't take the pressure like Peyton Manning or James Harden why is "oh they're not playing like they're capable of" always the excuse?

Draymond Green is supposed to be the 'heart and soul" of that team and he looks like virgin surrounded by women on the court. Bogut is probably begging to be deported back to Australia

This team is broken right now for a reason and it's not by chance.

Doesn't have to be either or. But seems like all you guys do around here is deal in absolutes.

 

[Godslay]

Honestly, my thoughts on the series are that if the Warriors play like they are capable of playing, then they will win the series. They Cavs have been playing better, but I take that more as the Warriors playing like shit and the Cavs playing out of their minds. Even with that, all the games have been pretty close, so it tells me who i still think will win

Warriors are looking passive and scared though which is not good to me

I rewatched most of the game tonight and the body language of the Warriors is interesting. Curry looks lost out there at times. Green was flustered. The most interesting of them all was Thompson though. His head dropped down several times, and had that frustrated, defeated, fuck this look on his face.

Normally, I don't pay too much attention to this, but it was pretty apparent on second watch. I don't know if it's just frustration in the game itself, or something else going on that's deeper. Their mentality seems completely different than it's been in other series though.

 

[LyleLanley]

Gotta love how teams are never given credit for their achievements. Unless it's someone well-known that can't take the pressure like Peyton Manning or James Harden why is "oh they're not playing like they're capable of" always the excuse?

Draymond Green is supposed to be the 'heart and soul" of that team and he looks like virgin surrounded by women on the court. Bogut is probably begging to be deported back to Australia

This team is broken right now for a reason and it's not by chance.

I agree that the Cavs deserve more credit than they're currently getting but that doesn't really explain all the wide open misses from the Warriors.

 

[SyenceLabb]

"You can't play the if game! Anything could have happened"

"What would the Cavs be like if they had Wiggins instead of Love right now"

dude what the fuck are you talking about

:jnc

 

[SyenceLabb]

I agree that the Cavs deserve more credit than they're currently getting but that doesn't really explain all the wide open misses from the Warriors.

Not being in rhythm explains some of it. They're not used to generating this much offense out of their halfcourt sets.

 

[Jarate]

Gotta love how teams are never given credit for their achievements. Unless it's someone well-known that can't take the pressure like Peyton Manning or James Harden why is "oh they're not playing like they're capable of" always the excuse?

Draymond Green is supposed to be the 'heart and soul" of that team and he looks like virgin surrounded by women on the court. Bogut is probably begging to be deported back to Australia

This team is broken right now for a reason and it's not by chance.

Dont get me wrong, im not taking away from what the Cavs have done, it's just that ifI was a betting man, I wouldnt count out the Warriors. The Warriors have played like shit, and sure that could easily be because of the defense of the cavs, which assuredly helps, but it's not like Draymond Green is known for missing 13 straight 3's. That's a statistical anomaly.

But I do have a point, Lebron and the Cavs are playing better then they have all season, the Warriors are probably playing some of their worst ball. This could be due to a bunch of factors, but im generally a big fan of teams with the better team winning

 

[ISOM]

Okafor always seemed to play his worst ball against the best competition. Not a good sign.

You're thinking of D'angelo Russell.

 

[Jag]

But I do have a point, Lebron and the Cavs are playing better then they have all season, the Warriors are probably playing some of their worst ball. This could be due to a bunch of factors, but im generally a big fan of teams with the better team winning

Except you see this in games like the Finals. That's why experience counts. That's why this shot

is so telling. Those are 3 fantastically gifted players, but they knew that they couldn't overcome the beast.

When good players have bad series it is not by accident, but design.

 

[cyborg009]

Reddit going in on the warriors for these screens.
http://streamable.com/hvy6
http://streamable.com/rkvh

 

[RedAssedApe]

warriors seem a bit shell-shocked that the cavs are keeping up and outplaying them with lebron and a duct-taped lineup. according to the "experts", warriors were supposed to steam roll this team even with kyrie healthy. now it seems like they don't know what to do. the starters anyway. the second team has been the second team.

we'll see if that spark lee gave them on offense transfers over to the next game or they'll come out flat again and just lay down and die.

 

[Lambtron]

Love would be foolish to opt out this year, with the cap going up so much after next season. He will probably opt in. After that who knows.

 

[LyleLanley]

Love would be foolish to opt out this year, with the cap going up so much after next season. He will probably opt in. After that who knows.

He's better off opting out and re-signing to a new 2 year deal with a 1 year opt out. He'll get more money next year that way. It makes no sense to just opt in.

 

[SyenceLabb]

Dont get me wrong, im not taking away from what the Cavs have done, it's just that ifI was a betting man, I wouldnt count out the Warriors. The Warriors have played like shit, and sure that could easily be because of the defense of the cavs, which assuredly helps, but it's not like Draymond Green is known for missing 13 straight 3's. That's a statistical anomaly.

But I do have a point, Lebron and the Cavs are playing better then they have all season, the Warriors are probably playing some of their worst ball. This could be due to a bunch of factors, but im generally a big fan of teams with the better team winning

It's a 7 game series, the better team always win.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Except you see this in games like the Finals. That's why experience counts. That's why this shot

is so telling. Those are 3 fantastically gifted players, but they knew that they couldn't overcome the beast.

When good players have bad series it is not by accident, but design.

That team played against Lebron James, Wade, and Bosh. Along with a number of veteran role players.

This team is playing against Lebron James and a bunch of guys who had never been to the finals and had never accomplished much of anything in their careers up to this point. Is it so unacceptable to give credit but also add that there's something else going on here?

 

[Jarate]

It's a 7 game series, the better team always win.

Statistically speaking this isn't always true. Even if the Cavs have a 20% chance to win a game, there's still a chance they can win the series based off of that.

In general for statistical variance to no longer matter you need a sample size of around 30 or so. But that would be illogical

Will the better team have a much higher chance of winning the series in a 7 game series compared to a 5 or 3 game series, sure, but it's not unreasonable to think that a few flukey plays can happen to give teams victories

 

[RedAssedApe]

That team played against Lebron James, Wade, and Bosh. Along with a number of veteran role players.

This team is playing against Lebron James and a bunch of guys who had never been to the finals and had never accomplished much of anything in their careers up to this point. Is it so unacceptable to give credit but also add that there's something else going on here?

james jones and mike miller shedding a tear ;(

 

[SyenceLabb]

Statistically speaking this isn't always true. Even if the Cavs have a 20% chance to win a game, there's still a chance they can win the series based off of that.

In general for statistical variance to no longer matter you need a sample size of around 30 or so. But that would be illogical

Will the better team have a much higher chance of winning the series in a 7 game series compared to a 5 or 3 game series, sure, but it's not unreasonable to think that a few flukey plays can happen to give teams victories

Listen. You're not the "better" team if you let the "inferior" team beat you four times.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

It's a 7 game series, the better team always win.

What about the 1995 Bulls against Orlando.

james jones and mike miller shedding a tear ;(

I guess I'll give it to James Jones for showing up to Game 3 but it says a lot that I had to be reminded they're even still on this team. Mike Miller is basically just a morale guy at this point.

 

[Mxrz]

They have to start calling the illegal screens. Its just getting silly.

Issue with the warriors, their (new) fans, and the media types - they declared a championship in May, and expected every team to just follow the script. Glad the Cavs are throwing down with them. Its crazy, but its also turning LeBron into America's favorite underdog. Even Kobe is getting in on it.

And JR is due his one good wtf game. Just stopping with the boneheaded fouls would be something.

 

[SyenceLabb]

What about the 1995 Bulls against Orlando.

I hate when people say, "Team A is better than Team B, but they just didin't live up to their potential" - Well, correct me if I'm wrong, isn't playing up to your potential a characteristic of being the better team?

 

[Bread]

Bogut annoys the shit out of me. Dude's just a stiff, he's basically Perkins at this point.

 

[Trey]

Still have the Ws in 6.

Don't know why Bogut is so shook though. But he's been a pylon all playoffs so it's not like it's a big deal.

 

[Jarate]

They have to start calling the illegal screens. Its just getting silly.

Issue with the warriors, their (new) fans, and the media types - they declared a championship in May, and expected every team to just follow the script. Glad the Cavs are throwing down with them. Its crazy, but its also turning LeBron into America's favorite underdog. Even Kobe is getting in on it.

And JR is due his one good wtf game. Just stopping with the boneheaded fouls would be something.

Brah they havent called a moving screen or a travel consistently since like the 60's

 

[charsace]

The only thing Wiggins has over Love was his cap hit. Lebron's window is closing and he and the Cavs need to win now. Cavs will trade 10 years of rebuilding for one chip.

Too bad the trade was terrible. The Cavs didn't need Love at all this year. They would have made the playoffs without Love and in the playoffs he hasn't helped them at all. And most likely he will be gone in the off season. It was a bad trade for Cleveland when it was announced and looks like one of the all time worst trades with how things have played out so far. The trade can't be justified right now and if the Cavs don't win and Love walks, oh boy what a disaster.

The Cavs would have been better off trading for Melo or something.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

They have to start calling the illegal screens. Its just getting silly.

Issue with the warriors, their (new) fans, and the media types - they declared a championship in May, and expected every team to just follow the script. Glad the Cavs are throwing down with them. Its crazy, but its also turning LeBron into America's favorite underdog. Even Kobe is getting in on it.

And JR is due his one good wtf game. Just stopping with the boneheaded fouls would be something.

They gotta start calling a lot of things on both teams, but I doubt it will happen.

I hate when people say, "Team A is better than Team B, but they just didin't live up to their potential" - Well, correct me if I'm wrong, isn't playing up to your potential a characteristic of being the better team?

Beats me, I just know I would take that Bulls team over that Orlando team any day of the week.

 

[Mxrz]

Brah they havent called a moving screen or a travel consistently since like the 60's

When you're holding the dude's foot tho. That is a whole new level.

 

[Jarate]

Love is pretty inconsequential when Lebron is a way better PF then him

When you're holding the dude's foot tho. That is a whole new level.

Let the boys play, unless James Harden is in, then call all the fouls

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

When you're holding the dude's foot tho. That is a whole new level.

4th quarter would take 3 hours in real time if they called everything. It's just chaos time.

 

[RellyRell28]

That team played against Lebron James, Wade, and Bosh. Along with a number of veteran role players.

This team is playing against Lebron James and a bunch of guys who had never been to the finals and had never accomplished much of anything in their careers up to this point. Is it so unacceptable to give credit but also add that there's something else going on here?

Doesn't matter if they're not ready stage. Those role players along with James aren't really feeling the pressure due to not having expectations and James is use to it will. Meanwhile Curry and co have more expected out of the and maybe feeling the pressure due to it. James with his experience has his team ready and playing well.

 

[jman2050]

The 95 Bulls were not better than the Magic, not with Penny and Shaq firing on all cylinders and the Bulls having a not-quite-prime Jordan with their depth already strained.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Doesn't matter if they're not ready stage. Those role players along with James aren't really feeling the pressure due to not having expectations and James is use to it will. Meanwhile Curry and co have more expected out of the and maybe feeling the pressure due to it. James with his experience has his team ready and playing well.

That's what I've been saying. Warriors are psyching themselves out too much, especially at the start of games.

The 95 Bulls were not better than the Magic, not with Penny and Shaq firing on all cylinders and the Bulls having a not-quite-prime Jordan with their depth already strained.

Isn't that exactly the point? Jordan didn't live up to his potential.

 

[Jarate]

Dario Saric might be coming to the Sixer's next year

Embiid
Noel
Saric
Russell
Tony Wroten

That'll be a sick lineup for the next few years

Its funny how I stopped paying attention to the NBA when the Sixer's resided in mediocrity, but with the tank I'm back on the bandwagon

 

[Bread]

Dario Saric might be coming to the Sixer's next year

Embiid
Noel
Saric
Russell
Tony Wroten

That'll be a sick lineup for the next few years

Its funny how I stopped paying attention to the NBA when the Sixer's resided in mediocrity, but with the tank I'm back on the bandwagon

Too bad you'll have to pay all of them before the team contends

 

[Jarate]

Too bad you'll have to pay all of them before the team contends

We get 4 years on their rookie contracts and most of the players will have hit their peak by then. Nerlens is someone I could see getting traded if Embiid is as good as he looks. Plus with the new Salary bringing in loads of money, we should be able to retain the better players

 

[effzee]

Dario Saric might be coming to the Sixer's next year

Embiid
Noel
Saric
Russell
Tony Wroten

That'll be a sick lineup for the next few years

Its funny how I stopped paying attention to the NBA when the Sixer's resided in mediocrity, but with the tank I'm back on the bandwagon

Now if only Lebron would decide to become a one year rental player for every team in the East. He could win a championship for all the cities mired in mediocrity.

With that line up + Lebron, Sixers would be instant NBA finals contenders.