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$500 cans on, this is how you dream right - Official Headphone Thread
- Thread starter HiResDes
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Phat Michael
Banned
Look for DSD and 384khz hi-res audio. Then you will be able to tell the difference between this and Mp3.
Also helps to have some well recorded albums, see the list I posted on the previous pages.
What I want is to be able to tell the location of people in a FPS, wouldn't a DAC help with that or is the DS4 good enough? Otherwise it sounds ok, but I also wanted to have improved sound from my iphone/ipod and mac air too.I figure I should get something for all three if possible.
Dumb question time.
I want to get some relatively inexpensive 2.1 speakers for my TV since it only has built in audio which sucks (the speakers point backwards). The TV, though, only has an optical out in addition the 3.5mm jack for headphones.
If I buy a set of 2.1 speakers that only have the 3.5mm connection, will plugging them into the headphone jack work and give me 2.1 audio? Or do I have to find a pair of speakers that has an optical connection?
I want to get some relatively inexpensive 2.1 speakers for my TV since it only has built in audio which sucks (the speakers point backwards). The TV, though, only has an optical out in addition the 3.5mm jack for headphones.
If I buy a set of 2.1 speakers that only have the 3.5mm connection, will plugging them into the headphone jack work and give me 2.1 audio? Or do I have to find a pair of speakers that has an optical connection?
Tabasco
Member
Which is better in terms of price/performance ratio though? (AD700x and these ones you mentioned)
Also, is a sound card really necessary? I already have a DAC/amp, but it doesn't do much justice for my 5 year old HD 555.
I'm wondering if I should just keep using the HD 555, or am I missing out on a whole different world of sound?
The DS4 audio output is garbage.
The 555 isn't that hard to drive, if you don't like the sound it probably has nothing to do with the DAC/amp. And yeah I think the Takstar is a better value, but both the TS671 and AD700 would only be an upgrade from the 555 really for gaming. I'm not sure what you're looking for it's kind of confusing. If you're looking for a holographic soundstage that replicates surround sound then a soundcard that supports Dolby headphone might be worth looking into.
I went hunting for a new pair of headphones around $200. I came down to Audio-Technica ATH-M50x vs. Sennheiser HD 598.
In the end, I went with the Audio-Technica cans.....did I make the right choice?
These are my first headphones at this level...haven't really had anything over $50 before this.
In the end, I went with the Audio-Technica cans.....did I make the right choice?
These are my first headphones at this level...haven't really had anything over $50 before this.
If you need them to be closed then yeah probably. I personally prefer the sound of the Soundmagic HP150 to them, but not a bad choice nonetheless.
Might look into those....I'm open to other options.
Do you need a amp with those? That's what I love about the Audio Technicas....you don't need one.
Edit: After reading reviews, went with the Soundmagic and added a FiiO E6 to my order. I couldn't find a negative thing said about that pair.
cpp_is_king
Member
I know I've asked this before, but it's been a long time and I forgot the answer, and now I'm actually ready to make a purchase.
What are two or three of the best quality over-the-ear headphones with the least sound leakage, for under $500? I'll be driving them with an amp, an audioengine d1.
Also, "sound leakage" refers to sound in your headphones getting out, a property you might want to minimize while listening in a library for example. Whereas "isolation" typically refers preventing sound from the outside getting in, a property you might want to maximize while listening in a noisy environment and you only want to hear your music. In practical terms, is there a difference? Intuitively, it seems like less sound leakage goes hand in hand with more isolation, and vice versa, but is this necessarily true?
Regardless, in case it makes a difference, I don't care about keeping outside noise out, I only care about keeping inside noise in, as I will be listening in an open office environment, and disturbing people around me is unacceptable.
I've heard good things about Beyerdynamic T70p, as well as a pair of AKGs which I can't remember the model number of. Thoughts? What about some stuff on the higher end? Ultimately though, preventing leakage is going to take priority over quality, but I would still like quality to be as high as possible
What are two or three of the best quality over-the-ear headphones with the least sound leakage, for under $500? I'll be driving them with an amp, an audioengine d1.
Also, "sound leakage" refers to sound in your headphones getting out, a property you might want to minimize while listening in a library for example. Whereas "isolation" typically refers preventing sound from the outside getting in, a property you might want to maximize while listening in a noisy environment and you only want to hear your music. In practical terms, is there a difference? Intuitively, it seems like less sound leakage goes hand in hand with more isolation, and vice versa, but is this necessarily true?
Regardless, in case it makes a difference, I don't care about keeping outside noise out, I only care about keeping inside noise in, as I will be listening in an open office environment, and disturbing people around me is unacceptable.
I've heard good things about Beyerdynamic T70p, as well as a pair of AKGs which I can't remember the model number of. Thoughts? What about some stuff on the higher end? Ultimately though, preventing leakage is going to take priority over quality, but I would still like quality to be as high as possible
- Mag Dog Pro
- Focal Spirit Pro
- KEF M500
cpp_is_king
Member
Thanks. Looking at the Mad Dog Pro, what's up with requiring a custom cable? Is there a legitimate reason for this, or is it just kinda like what Apple does where if all the cables are proprietary, you have to give them more money? Is a regular headphone jack the 3.5mm one? So if I were to buy those headphones, I would need to buy their 3.5mm cable?
What would you say is the best closed ear headphone for any price (ignoring isolation / leakage), and how does the sound quality of the Mad Dog Pro compare to that?
Jazzy Network
Member
Just got my Sony MDR1Rs today. The sound is fantastic and it's so light.
3.5mm is standard, though amps and receivers usually have 1/4...I don't think cables make much of a difference except in some small cases, but that's just me so I would never recommend spending any extra money on them. It's easy to find a 1/4 converter jack if you need one or vice versa so I wouldn't fret about it.
And as far the very best closed headphones I can't really say. It's very subjective. The Mad Dog certainly competes with the best in sheer balance and detail, but there are definitely gonna be other headphones that perform better in certain areas.
I'd say this is a good list of all the ones within the price range without taking sound isolaton/leakage into consideration:
- Denon AH-D7000
- Beyerdynamic T90
- Sony MDR z7
- Mr. Speakers Mag Dog Pro
- Paradox Slants
- Shure 1540
- Focal Spirit Pro
- NAD Viso HP50
- ADL H118
- Master & Dynamic MH40
- KEF M500
- AKG K545
- Beyerdynamic DT-250
- Yamaha MT-220
- Soundmagic HP150
...That's probably a really good list for of everything, good luck finding the Denon's or even the lower iterations for under a grand though
Tabasco
Member
What's necessary to drive the TS671? (sound card, DAC/amp, or both?)
Basically, what's the best combo for that pair of headphones? You pretty much have the right idea that I want to be immersed in the game with a larger sound stage. How good is it for music, though? I'd prefer to have something good for both gaming and music. A setup that is an improvement over the HD 555 is ideal.
You're gonna want to upgrade your soundcard to something that supports dolby headphone, then connect your dac using the optical out...The Taksar nor the AD700 are gonna be much of an improvement music wise over the 555. You'd probably have to step up to something like Fidelio X1/X2 or AKG Q701 to really hear those improvements.
Not sure I am going to make this leap, but I am seriously considering a pair of HE560 + Schiit Agard 2 amp + some DAC (O2DAC?). It is a lot of money though and I have never spent that much on audio equipment, but it might really be worth it. Coming from ATH-M50 with CMOY portable amp. Any thoughts on the proposed new set-up?
Thought about it (uber analog) and kind of choked looking at the price. But I would be willing to go "all out" if I can stick with this setup for a couple of years without any need to upgrade.
Dude even just the Modi 2 or Loki 2 are going to give you can extremely clean sound.
You'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between properly encoded mp3 and those bullshit formats you listed.
The vast majority of these high resolution formats are completely rubbish. DSD especially with the amount of quantization noise it has. The only one that was worth anything was SACD and that had to do with the quality of masters. Companies either dumped the original masters on it, which is sometimes a good thing, or put decent remasters that were designed to be played out of a stationary system. This doesn't stop the fact that a lot of SACDs versions are dreadful and you're better off getting the original CD versions due to some seriously botched masters.
A lot of formats aren't particularly useful or good. A lot of those "high resolution" formats are kind of irrelevant, especially since the dude doing the work likely doesn't know any better, also thinks its bullshit, and can't be bothered dealing with it. The master is what matters and that's format irrelevant.
KingHenrik30
Member
So I decided to go with the Audio-Technica ATH-M50xBL's. They arrive tomorrow, will post pics then. Thanks to everyone here who gave me suggestions/guidance.
cpp_is_king
Member
What I meant about the cable was that it says this on their website:
And looking at the picture, the input to the headphones is some kind of strange looking non-standard jack
Looking further, it seems the cable is included in the price of the headphones, but I'm still not sure why they would require this proprietary cable other than if you lose it, they're your only source of buying a new one.
I remember that bullshit. The good news is that its a SN-8-4(P) connector so its pretty easy to make your own cable provided you can get a connector from somewhere.
To be quite honest, I think the Mad Dogs aren't particularly good. As far as Fostex T50RP mods go, the Paradox mod is a similar price but much, much better IMHO.
To be quite honest, I think the Mad Dogs aren't particularly good. As far as Fostex T50RP mods go, the Paradox mod is a similar price but much, much better IMHO.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
My normal Mad Dogs with Alpha pads have a standard 3.5mm. The pros have a proprietary because you don't want to jam a clunky XLR tip into your headphone. If you only ground one end it's pointless to ground anything.
Yup, they are very good cans for gaming too, the cable with the mic comes in handy
Union Carbine
Member
This is my current understanding.
Uni on Everything!
Member
This might be a stupid question but what's the best way to connect my iPhone / iPad to my amp and dac so I can do some listening while in bed when I'm lazy?
Paradox is a good suggestion forgot about it.
I still have Headfonia's Paradox review in my head. I mean, if they're right I'm a total fool for not already owning them. Talk about a glowing review.
Some day I'll succumb.
Some day I'll succumb.
I still don't understand how one could love the Paradox and dislike the Mag Dogs when they're so similar.
Phat Michael
Banned
Did you actually read what I wrote? I said it's all about the quality of recording.
I have multiple recordings of the same song at different formats, I can tell the difference with my setup.
Jzero
Member
sometimes headphones are not adequate
U2 rattle and hum bluray on.
I want some of those wooden stands but i'm not down for $180 lol
I think i'm also going to buy the X2's and try to sell my X1's
ElectricKaibutsu
Member
I just ordered the FiiO L9 which fits my old iPod and 4s. It bypasses the iPod's amp, but it still uses the iPod's dac.
I did. This is what you said:
Those formats will only sound different due to the (likely) different master. It does not mean those masters are good. It also does not mean those formats will allow you to tell the difference between 320khz and DSD provided they are the same master.
DSD and 384khz hi-res audio is not what he should be looking for. Heck, DSD is actually a bad format if high resolution is what you want.
Phat Michael
Banned
They didn't cost that much at all. I think they were $40ea?
Phat Michael
Banned
While Im no expert on how these are recorded, I'm just saying in the songs I have with different sizes/formats,i can tell the difference.
Why shouldn't he be looking for DSD or 384khz if they are available and at similar price points?
Because when you are looking at two similarly priced DAC, your choice shouldn't come down to whether the DAC support the latest and greatest format.
You should be looking at the synergy between the DAC, amplifier and the headphone. Do you like the sound signature? do you prefer tube or SS? Single-ended or balanced? even the chip matter, some people don't like the Sabre chip.
Sure eventually you can start considering whether the dac supports DSD, 384khz etc but IMO this is the least important feature in a DAC.
I haven't listened to anything 32bit/384khz. To me, it feels like your typical spec arms war much in the way that people used to be obsessed over clock speeds and core counts. I'm probably wrong about this though ¯\_(ツ
_/¯As for DSD, its not a good high resolution format. I think there's an email from a Philips engineer who worked on the DSD format that basically shits on Sony for creating a standard that solves nothing and introduces problems for everyone. Old DACs as far as I know were 1-bit delta-sigma modulators. You have a bit depth of one and a frequency many times the actual audio sample rate. This is how you get DSD's 2.8Mhz sampling rate: 44,100khz from your typical CD x 64 times = ~2.8Mhz.
The main problem here is the bit depth. If you're doing any form of audio work, you're going to have to convert that DSD signal to multi-bit PCM. When you convert that multi-bit PCM back to 1 bit DSD, you get a crapload of quantization noise. This quantization noise occurs because you're essentially downsampling the signal to a lower resolution. You can tackle this with dithering, which increases the noise floor of the audio signal while eliminating much of the quantization noise. You can't really do this with DSD because it has a bit depth of 1.
So you still have a shitload of distortion and noise. You tackle this problem with noise shaping that pushes these issues to ultrasonic frequencies that you're not meant to hear. This doesn't eliminate the noise so Sony has mandated that all DSD systems must have low-pass filters. This is to prevent amplifiers from destroying expensive audiophile equipment. This filter cuts everything 30khz onwards since there's no way to differentiate between noise and music.
Courtesy of Changstar, here is a graph showing the difference between untouched DSD (red), PCM (cyan), and filtered DSD (green):
tl;dr: lots of noise and dead equipment without the filter, loss of audio information with the filter, not supported by anyone outside the big bucks audiophile industry. If you believe in the importance of ultrasonic frequencies, DSD is a bad format. If you don't believe in ultrasonic frequencies, DSD is a pointless format.
Here's a good post on DSD from a local forum:
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/56339-dsd-noisefiltering/
"If DSD sounds superior to CD(redbook), it's not necessarily due to the presence of high frequencies, which are compromised with the filtering required on playback anyway. "
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/56339-dsd-noisefiltering/
"If DSD sounds superior to CD(redbook), it's not necessarily due to the presence of high frequencies, which are compromised with the filtering required on playback anyway. "
Phat Michael
Banned
Thanks for that. I'll send you a link where you can download a nice hi res 384khz file for free to sample. It's really nicely recorded so you can have a listen.I haven't listened to anything 32bit/384khz. To me, it feels like your typical spec arms war much in the way that people used to be obsessed over clock speeds and core counts. I'm probably wrong about this though ¯_(ツ
As for DSD, its not a good high resolution format. I think there's an email from a Philips engineer who worked on the DSD format that basically shits on Sony for creating a standard that solves nothing and introduces problems for everyone. Old DACs as far as I know were 1-bit delta-sigma modulators. You have a bit depth of one and a frequency many times the actual audio sample rate. This is how you get DSD's 2.8Mhz sampling rate: 44,100khz from your typical CD x 64 times = ~2.8Mhz.
The main problem here is the bit depth. If you're doing any form of audio work, you're going to have to convert that DSD signal to multi-bit PCM. When you convert that multi-bit PCM back to 1 bit DSD, you get a crapload of quantization noise. This quantization noise occurs because you're essentially downsampling the signal to a lower resolution. You can tackle this with dithering, which increases the noise floor of the audio signal while eliminating much of the quantization noise. You can't really do this with DSD because it has a bit depth of 1.
So you still have a shitload of distortion and noise. You tackle this problem with noise shaping that pushes these issues to ultrasonic frequencies that you're not meant to hear. This doesn't eliminate the noise so Sony has mandated that all DSD systems must have low-pass filters. This is to prevent amplifiers from destroying expensive audiophile equipment. This filter cuts everything 30khz onwards since there's no way to differentiate between noise and music.
Courtesy of Changstar, here is a graph showing the difference between untouched DSD (red), PCM (cyan), and filtered DSD (green):
tl;dr: lots of noise and dead equipment without the filter, loss of audio information with the filter, not supported by anyone outside the big bucks audiophile industry. If you believe in the importance of ultrasonic frequencies, DSD is a bad format. If you don't believe in ultrasonic frequencies, DSD is a pointless format.
I'll do it when I'm at my pc.
I'm selling mine as well, but I'm waiting on a HE-400i drop.
Union Carbine
Member
So I know I've mentioned the Geek Out 450 - Leckerton UHA-6S.MKII combo but I hadn't had a chance to listen to it myself. Well, my Leckerton came in the mail yesterday so I spent last night rocking the combo with my NAD VISO HP50s:
I was impressed. Running the GO into the Leckerton does seem to add something the GO was missing by itself. I wasn't running A/B tests so I hope I'm not succumbing to confirmation bias but the combo has a really nice sound.
What's more, it makes a great portable duo-- I can run the full setup from my laptop or use the Leckerton with my iPhone via the CCK (it can run on its own battery power so no need to add a hub to the mix). The Leckerton also has optical and coaxial inputs as well as the line in so it's got everything covered that the GO doesn't (only USB input). Both devices are so small and compact, I can toss them into practically anything without adding much weight or bulk.
Reading this back, I must sound like a promotional plant but I really, really dig how it sounds.
I was impressed. Running the GO into the Leckerton does seem to add something the GO was missing by itself. I wasn't running A/B tests so I hope I'm not succumbing to confirmation bias but the combo has a really nice sound.
What's more, it makes a great portable duo-- I can run the full setup from my laptop or use the Leckerton with my iPhone via the CCK (it can run on its own battery power so no need to add a hub to the mix). The Leckerton also has optical and coaxial inputs as well as the line in so it's got everything covered that the GO doesn't (only USB input). Both devices are so small and compact, I can toss them into practically anything without adding much weight or bulk.
Reading this back, I must sound like a promotional plant but I really, really dig how it sounds.
KingHenrik30
Member
Loving them so far
If that was a reply to the K551 then it was part of Amazon lightning deal last night at 7pm. It's been up couple of times now, so keep an eye out for it.
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