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[rofif]

There is still a long way to go before PSSR reaches the magic of FSR4 and DLSS

Not sure. Looks about the same as dlss honestly. At least the cn model

 

[SweetTooth]

Not sure. Looks about the same as dlss honestly. At least the cn model

Spoiler

it looks nearly identical

 

[jumpship]

(I sound like a cultist)

 

[Zathalus]

Spoiler

it looks nearly identical

What comparison video are you looking at?

 

[SweetTooth]

What comparison video are you looking at?

No one, I meant that PSSR has been really close to FSR3 and DLSS3, people just tend to exaggerate the differences

 

[DenchDeckard]

DLSS will always remain King. I have watched a few videos and read people's impressions and even with PSSR there is still shimmering, less but its still there

When I use DLAA at 4k in my pc I cannot find a single shimmering in the screen, everything is sharp as a knife

Sorry but long life to DLSS and DLAA

(I sound like a cultist)

It is facts though. Game looks bonkers on my 4k oled on pc. Truly next gen.

 

[Gonzito]

It is facts though. Game looks bonkers on my 4k oled on pc. Truly next gen.

Yes I agree. People judge DLSS based on youtube videos, when you see it action at 4k in your own tv playing its another story. But these guys will never believe us because they haven't seen it in person, if they do one day they'll understand us. That's why I said that I sound like a cultist but I do really believe my statement lol

 

[Fafalada]

Like other posters have pointed out, it's hard to notice the difference between the the TAAU and PPSR but I did look closely, and I can see that PSSR resolves foliage detail much better, and the overall image is a bit more crisper. I did notice that some of the shimmering disappeared.

TAAU also disintegrates detail of foliage and most other things in motion.
I get it DF decided to obsess over static images since November last year - and screenshots 'are' easier to compare in a forum - but if that was really the only thing that mattered, we'd never have needed anything other than FSR.

 

[Topher]

Is this supposedly an opinion based on the 60fps performance mode? (I think that's how you prioritize playing)

If so, it's clearly a "yes", 60fps and RT seems too much for consoles if you also want good graphics, physics, textures... Performance mode in Pro requires significant cuts to those 60fps, and it doesn't seem like PSSR has helped much.

Thankfully, in my case, 30fps and, lately, 40fps modes are "enough" for me, and I can enjoy the games just as well. In that case, the consoles are more than decent at handling RT while maintaining decent graphics.

I'll note that, in this case, AC Shadows and some others with RTGI, it seems that the PC version runs a bit higher than on consoles, even if you compare it to the Pro's 30fps mode. That doesn't mean I don't think the game still looks and runs great on consoles. In fact, I think the optimization work is very good. It's one of the best games on consoles graphically.

Yeah, I'm talking strictly about performance modes. Tried balanced and it was fine. Noticeable improvement over quality in performance. But yeah....agree with pretty much everything you said. Game still looks great.

I will say that the more I play, the more I see improvements with PSSR. There is a shimmer on some edges such as the fence at the hideout. PSSR eliminates that.

 

[Physiognomonics]

This is interesting. What could cause the difference to be so minimal?

Been similar in stills is a great result actually. The main advantage of PSSR against TAA or FSR is in motion!

 

[DenchDeckard]

It clearly seems like an improvement over the base version in motion and adds rt reflections so all in all great patch.

 

[Zuzu]

 

[TrebleShot]

HDR is broken?

 

[Skifi28]

In the little testing I did, the difference is not obvious when standing still (that's actually a good thing as PSSR has a bad reputation in games with heavy RT) but in motion the improvement is very apparent. With the TAA there are many artifacts when just moving the camera, almost on FSR2 level, while with PSSR everything looks smooth and consistent. While not a gamechanging upgrade, I'd say it's pretty nice for those with an eye for detail.

 

[DenchDeckard]

worse performance and broken HDR (if correct) is not great. does the TAA mode add the RT reflections in this patch

 

[Zuzu]

HDR is broken?

Yeah, if he's correct. I don't have the game on Pro so I haven't seen it personally. Hopefully GamingTech does a video and confirms whether it's broken or not.

 

[Darsxx82]

worse performance and broken HDR (if correct) is not great. does the TAA mode add the RT reflections in this patch

Yes, and it seems that this video also corroborates what ElAnalista showed, that PSSR comes with a cost in fps (in certain areas where it was previously 60fps with TAAU, it's down to 50's fps with PSSR).
The reason for keeping TAAU despite PSSR as an option is starting to make complete sense.

 

[Gaiff]

TAAU also disintegrates detail of foliage and most other things in motion.
I get it DF decided to obsess over static images since November last year - and screenshots 'are' easier to compare in a forum - but if that was really the only thing that mattered, we'd never have needed anything other than FSR.

Strange that you say that because DF seldom compares static shots. What they do is pause the game in a moment where the image of upscalers breaks up and explain the differences.

Usually, they go on and on about how the difference in motion is and bring up things such as foliage moving, fine details disappearing when moving the camera, etc.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Yes, and it seems that this video also corroborates what ElAnalista showed, that PSSR comes with a cost in fps (in certain areas where it was previously 60fps with TAAU, it's down to 50's fps with PSSR).
The reason for keeping TAAU despite PSSR as an option is starting to make complete sense.

That's a shame. Yeah. If you don't have a vrr display pssr is useless here.

Not good

 

[TheRedRiders]

I noticed the brightness was a little funny after the update and I thought it might have just been my eyes screwing with me but most likely seems to be the HDR implementation.

 

[Doctor Hades]

I played about an hour of the game last night on my PS5 Pro, continuing my save from the PC version. I'm using the 40 fps Balanced mode for the best image quality but with the stand hair and RTGI. The game definitely looks better with PSSR when moving the camera around with less in the way of shimmering and noise on foliage. However, I did see some PSSR visual noise in some areas although it wasn't really that noticeable from my normal viewing distance on my 55" LG C3 OLED TV. I don't think the visual upgrade is huge without comparing the game running side by side with and without PSSR which I obviously cannot do myself. It doesn't look worse though, like some early PS5 Pro releases with PSSR, and it does look nicer in motion while adding RT specular (this is just improved RTGI and not RT reflections as I understand it) and without a noticeable hit to the resolution (I mean it must be running at a lower resolution than with TAAU but it looks comparable with PSSR).

Overall, I think the addition of PSSR is nice as are the other quality of life improvements to the game (the auto-follow for the horse etc). It wasn't aware that the HDR was broken though but if it definitely is then I hope Ubisoft fix this quickly. I will await for the Digital Foundry video for the definitive coverage of this patch (assuming they do one, they may just cover it briefly in the next DF Direct instead).

 

[reinking]

PSSR appears to remove the sharpen effect but blurs the foliage in the wind, dissapointed with its image quality. Balanced mode feels smoother than before, but feels lower resolution. I will continue to play in Quality mode with no PSSR.

That is what I noticed right away. I turned PSSR off too.

 

[Gonzito]

PSSR appears to remove the sharpen effect but blurs the foliage in the wind, dissapointed with its image quality. Balanced mode feels smoother than before, but feels lower resolution. I will continue to play in Quality mode with no PSSR.

This is Quality mode PSSR vs No-PSSR in stationary position, only wind moves the foliage.

Imgsli

This is Quality vs Balanced in PSSR and No-PSSR in motion.

PS5 Pro Patch - Imgsli

Can you use PSSR in Quality mode?

 

[Killjoy-NL]

It doesn't look worse though, like some early PS5 Pro releases with PSSR, and it does look nicer in motion while adding RT specular (this is just improved RTGI and not RT reflections as I understand it) and without a noticeable hit to the resolution (I mean it must be running at a lower resolution than with TAAU but it looks comparable with PSSR).

Are you sure bolded is true?

I just checked ingame and took screens of PS5 Pro in Quality, Balanced and Performance in exactly the same spot in 3 different locations and Balanced post-update (with PSSR on) reflection look almost exactly the same as the reflections in Quality, while Performance they look noticeably different.

Would post the screens, but I don't know a working hosting site.

 

[Javi97]

 

[kindaGoth]

Yeah, good stuff. Wish it was there at launch. Good joke huh?

 

[viveks86]

Can you use PSSR in Quality mode?

Yeah it's available on all modes.

Are you sure bolded is true?

I just checked ingame and took screens of PS5 Pro in Quality, Balanced and Performance in exactly the same spot in 3 different locations and Balanced post-update (with PSSR on) reflection look almost exactly the same as the reflections in Quality, while Performance they look noticeably different.

Would post the screens, but I don't know a working hosting site.

I believe Ubisoft refers to all rt reflections as "specular RT"

I noticed the brightness was a little funny after the update and I thought it might have just been my eyes screwing with me but most likely seems to be the HDR implementation.

Is it broken regardless of PSSR on/off? If so, I'd assume another patch is incoming

 

[SweetTooth]

Night and Day

Add motion and the difference is way bigger.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

I believe Ubisoft refers to all rt reflections as "specular RT"

Yeah, thought so.

But that does mean that Balanced uses RT reflections, just like Quality, correct?
Or maybe I was misreading the other Gaffer's post.

 

[Fafalada]

Strange that you say that because DF seldom compares static shots.

Not static shots 'exactly' but every PSSR video to date included extensive stationary camera analysis, which is where upscalers like FSR are at their absolute best (the subsample motion that exists in those scenarios is integral part of the algorithm - it's basically at the core of every TAA-derivative sample generation to jitter camera frame-2-frame - ie. it's not the kind of 'motion' that negates any of the benefits of TAA).
It is true - that PSSR (at least early versions) introduced a degree of noise in those scenarios - but again - if these were the target, FSR/TAAU is already state of the art, even DLSS basically adds nothing in those scenarios.

What they do is pause the game in a moment where the image of upscalers breaks up and explain the differences.

That's the other part of analysis - but not what I was talking about of course. Also the amount of focus motion analysis got was at its peak when FSR 2/3.x was analysed.

 

[viveks86]

Yeah, thought so.

But that does mean that Balanced uses RT reflections, just like Quality, correct?
Or maybe I was misreading the other Gaffer's post.

Correct. I'm going to assume Doctor Hades may have it wrong until proven otherwise.

See timestamped:



The water surface is reflecting more accurately in the new version, due to RT reflections versus their non-RT hybrid approach earlier.

 

[viveks86]

Based on that comparison, the framerate has dropped, even in areas where it was previously locked at 60fps, and some blurring has been added to textures and vegetation in exchange for greater image stability. I think leaving the option ON/OFF to choose was a smart idea. It would have been different if PSSR had helped to include new effects, details or RT, but that wasn't the case. Among other reasons, because I believe its TAAU still has a great balance between performance, image quality, and cost/ms, hence why they kept it.

The improvement in the patch comes more from the inclusion of RT reflections in Balanced mode. It was incomprehensible that in that mode there was no difference compared to the same mode on base consoles except for a higher average DRS resolution. In fact, it seems they had to lower the average resolution to include RT reflections.

I'm waiting for a DF analysis and find out if what we saw in the ElAnalista review is corroborated (which should always be taken with a grain of salt). Especially, let's see if they describe what the situation is like with Hideout now with fps unlocked and if the rest of the platforms have seen improvements in any area.

Good point on the performance drops. It seems PSSR is an easier choice for quality and balanced. In performance mode, the hideout is a near locked 60 with TAAU, but drops to the 50s with PSSR:

 

[scydrex]

 

[saintjules]

Beaten. Seems in performance mode, PSSR with those slight dips in frames are nearly eliminated if you're playing on a VRR supported screen.

I think this is the way I'll play the rest of the game.

 

[saintjules]

HDR is broken?

 

[TheRedRiders]

Is it broken regardless of PSSR on/off? If so, I'd assume another patch is incoming

I'm referring to the patch itself causing the issue, not because of PSSR.

Before the patch, the HDR looked fine to me and after it looked broken. I could be wrong maybe it was broken in both instances and my eyes weren't trained enough to spot it.

 

[saintjules]

Before the patch, the HDR looked fine to me and after it looked broken. I could be wrong maybe it was broken in both instances and my eyes weren't trained enough to spot it.

See my above post. According to him, there is no change in HDR based on his tests.

 

[soulbait]

I'm referring to the patch itself causing the issue, not because of PSSR.

Before the patch, the HDR looked fine to me and after it looked broken. I could be wrong maybe it was broken in both instances and my eyes weren't trained enough to spot it.

Yeah, I noticed the colors seemed off yesterday when I played and everything was more "dim". So there is something screwy going on with HDR.

 

[Karim]

No one, I meant that PSSR has been really close to FSR3 and DLSS3, people just tend to exaggerate the differences

FSR3 is neither that good honestly especially with transparencies or foliage.. in Outlaw is also blurried compared PSSR; it's only a better AA in still and because it uses a sort of software denoiser which helps to hide the raytracing artifacts where PSSR seems completely lacking(bizzarly), especially noticeable in the metal surface.

 

[Zathalus]

Hopefully Sony can improve the rendering cost of PSSR in future to get it closer to the cost of TAAU. Probably extremely hard considering how cheap TAAU is.

 

[Karim]

Hopefully Sony can improve the rendering cost of PSSR in future to get it closer to the cost of TAAU. Probably extremely hard considering how cheap TAAU is.

If I'm not misremembering Cerny talked about to targeting 1 MS fully optimized or around but I could be wrong

 

[DenchDeckard]

shame that the example he uses at 1.20 odd seconds with the trees shows noticeable frame drops on PSSR, unless its my stream.

Then shows 8 FPS drops and says its only 4fps...oh dear.

 

[Zathalus]

If I'm not misremembering Cerny talked about to targeting 1 MS fully optimized or around but I could be wrong

Would be nice to have, but it is not quite there yet at the moment. It's about equal to FSR2 on consoles in terms of rendering cost right now, and heavier than TAAU. Of course, improvements will be made in future.

 

[SlimySnake]

Would be nice to have, but it is not quite there yet at the moment. It's about equal to FSR2 on consoles in terms of rendering cost right now, and heavier than TAAU. Of course, improvements will be made in future.

You want to improve the quality of the image reconstruction with these reconstruction techniques, not the performance.

DLSS has only gotten heavier from DLSS 1 to 2 and now again from DLSS 3 to 4. The new transformer model is almost 15% more expensive at times.

You can always get a faster GPU. PS6 will be out in 3 years and should run these games at much higher internal resolutions (The ones that have DRS anyway). The focus should be on getting it to FSR4 quality.

 

[Karim]

Would be nice to have, but it is not quite there yet at the moment. It's about equal to FSR2 on consoles in terms of rendering cost right now, and heavier than TAAU. Of course, improvements will be made in future.

I suppose for now they prioritizing the reconstruction "job". When they will reach the best possible, it will be the turn of the perfomance cost. Just a guess.

 

[Zathalus]

You want to improve the quality of the image reconstruction with these reconstruction techniques, not the performance.

DLSS has only gotten heavier from DLSS 1 to 2 and now again from DLSS 3 to 4. The new transformer model is almost 15% more expensive at times.

You can always get a faster GPU. PS6 will be out in 3 years and should run these games at much higher internal resolutions (The ones that have DRS anyway). The focus should be on getting it to FSR4 quality.

Sure, but 2ms is hardly ideal at the moment. And improving the performance does not exclude improvements to the image quality either. In a closed system like the Pro, every little performance win matters. It looks like the end goal, judging by Mark Cernys comments is FSR4+ image quality at close to 1ms rendering cost, which would be pretty ideal.

 

[SlimySnake]

Sure, but 2ms is hardly ideal at the moment. And improving the performance does not exclude improvements to the image quality either. In a closed system like the Pro, every little performance win matters. It looks like the end goal, judging by Mark Cernys comments is FSR4+ image quality at close to 1ms rendering cost, which would be pretty ideal.

yeah but FSR4 is more expensive than DLSS3 and FSR2 lol

Reconstruction, good reconstruction, always has a cost. And yes, Cerny shouldve realized this and put a bigger more powerful GPU in there. 45% simply isnt big enough for a mid gen upgrade.

 

[CitizenKratos]

Are these all with a static or a moving camera? If that's static that's a pretty massive difference.

 

[SweetTooth]

Sure, but 2ms is hardly ideal at the moment. And improving the performance does not exclude improvements to the image quality either. In a closed system like the Pro, every little performance win matters. It looks like the end goal, judging by Mark Cernys comments is FSR4+ image quality at close to 1ms rendering cost, which would be pretty ideal.

Isn't DLSS4 heavier on comparable power GPUs to PS5Pro?

 

[daninthemix]

DLSS4 is heavy but its also the last word in reconstruction tech. It's at the stage where Quality (1440p) is always better than native 4K, and in many cases 1080p (Performance) is too. Which is nuts.