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AdvertisingAge: Xbox One's Data Treasure Trove Could Reshape Marketing
- Thread starter Freki
- Start date
Omnistalgic
Member
No thanks...
that's all I can even muster up at this point...
that's all I can even muster up at this point...
if it was free I wouldn't argue so much despite finding it scary and awful, but I'm paying(*) 500$ for a console and 60$ for a service, I don't want any freakin' ads in it.
it's like Ms build ads into windows 8 or Apple into the idevices.
(*) no, I'm not buying the xb1, hopefully never.
it's like Ms build ads into windows 8 or Apple into the idevices.
(*) no, I'm not buying the xb1, hopefully never.
I think this is one of the few times that Microsoft should really be more like Apple.
Apple simply doesn't engage with their customers, potential or otherwise.
Meanwhile Microsoft, perhaps rightly, thinking it would be a good idea to have a dialogue with gamers, has done way more harm than good.
If I were Microsoft I'd simply have Albert delete his GAF account and instruct all employees to not speak about the XBox. Just ship it and if it's a good product, every rumor or decision won't have to be defended.
Like I said, this works great for Apple.
They should perhaps try it.
Apple simply doesn't engage with their customers, potential or otherwise.
Meanwhile Microsoft, perhaps rightly, thinking it would be a good idea to have a dialogue with gamers, has done way more harm than good.
If I were Microsoft I'd simply have Albert delete his GAF account and instruct all employees to not speak about the XBox. Just ship it and if it's a good product, every rumor or decision won't have to be defended.
Like I said, this works great for Apple.
They should perhaps try it.
Hydrogen Bluebird
Member
Okay, this is pretty funny.
In relation to the thread topic though, what's being described in the OP in terms of getting user data, especially biometric data, sounds intrusive and yet very valuable from a marketing point of view.
It's amazing how quickly public perception has changed in less than 45 days. There's a lot of
What's changed in NeoGAF since that time period? *research*
Found it. The performance numbers started rolling in. And coincidentally, Albert started posting a bit more.
Albert, when you post an answer, even if you label it as speculative, people will take both extremes of the answer because you can not %100 confirm one. All that does is spread uncertainty and it has very rarely settled anything. I know you're proud of this product and you want to defend it. But, when you can't defend it with concrete answers it may be better not to say anything at all. I'm extremely confident in saying the answers and insights we've gotten from you posting has not balanced out the positives with the negatives. From a business standpoint, I would advise you to post much more sparingly on competitive subjects, or start giving %100 confidence in your answers. But personally, I do enjoy the perspectives you try to bring to the table. It brings out the long winded confrontational types, and I like reading everyone in action.
What like there are no ads in games now?
I honestly can't understand peoples aversion to all advertising, oppose bad advertising, intrusive advertising absolutely. But we owe this whole site to advertising, your data is how you pay for your internet, if we want more from it then we're going to have to give up more data, that's the way it's always worked, its not some grand conspiracy. If you want to opt out then by all means but don't kid yourself into thinking that by buying a PS4 instead of an Xbox you're somehow protecting yourself, you're probably already getting served advertising based on even mentioning your intention to do so.
semiconscious
Member
starting with this one: adam curtis' 'century of the self':
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLAD989035A4E8883D
EmptySpace
Banned
ever since the reveal, it was obvious that microsoft had other plans. this is expected.
From what we have seen of both offerings so far, PS4 is far less advertising focused, so you would be more protected that way.
@nifhelm LOL
Let's just hope he's right and most (all?) of these ideas are not being implemented into Xbox One. I don't know how you could feasibly design a less attractive system at that point if they were. That'd notch the system back from "I'm getting it when it's $299.99" to "I'm not getting it this generation."
I really don't want to have to avoid for a full generation my most anticipated next-gen game Crimson Dragon... but principles and whatnot... sucks
Sony has a lot of unsettling patents and ideas regarding where advertising should be integrated into the console gaming space.
See the thing with these companies is they never understand the line. Honestly, I've never personally had a major problem with an ad showing up here or there on my LIVE or PSN experience. I really don't. I consider it an indicator of a healthy market... it's a good direct line to customers you know want to buy games, it helps companies we want to succeed perform better, and in the end I don't think it's inappropriate if done right.
What they want to do consistently is cross that line. A McDonalds ad in your face that forces you to interact with it in some way before you move on to your content? True as of now it seems Sony did not go that route, but with how things go in this industry, one day someone will try. A built-in camera that senses when you may be unhappy with a commercial or when you walk away or in some other way mine data to determine how better to inconvenience you in the future? A company which is known for being one of the first to give in and gleefully give up users data to the government? Ads which make irritating noises to distract you. Ads which pause movies you're playing or games you're playing for 30 seconds or more even when you've already paid a hefty sum just to play the damned things.
I mean it's silly. We already paid an exorbitant amount for monthly subscriptions and expensive consoles and ever increasingly expensive games. Now they want to mine more money out of us with intrusive ads? It's just disrespectful to consumers.
Know your lines, businesses. You keep crossing it.
Oppo
Member
Yes, and customers are lapping up 5S's by the truckload.
My point, Apple just ships stuff. They don't have an Albert to defend the decision. Just do it.
Those who won't buy it won't buy it. But you're only creating negative vibes by constantly defending your decisions in public.
Sorc3r3r
Member
killatopak
Member
No one's talking about the PS4 not having ads here just some people thinking "Sony too!".
What we know is that MS' way is more intrusive and less tasteful.
so, this kinect-nuad thing, its the BIGGEST DISGRACE EVER TO APPEAR IN A GAMING CONSOLE!
I know microsoft loves money, but somewhere inside me i though that there may be other values for microsoft except for money.
its very evident I was wrong.
I am buying the machine to play some forza on it, and only AFTER the ability to NEVER connect kinect on it.
never the less, I feel bad when I see people defending these choices some corporate suits made, like it was a good thing.
its shameful, really!
I know microsoft loves money, but somewhere inside me i though that there may be other values for microsoft except for money.
its very evident I was wrong.
I am buying the machine to play some forza on it, and only AFTER the ability to NEVER connect kinect on it.
never the less, I feel bad when I see people defending these choices some corporate suits made, like it was a good thing.
its shameful, really!
no! its a choice you have as an owner/administrator, to open your members for data collection from ad sites or not do it.
Not true, what we've seen is that it's not as focused on gathering data, it's just as ready to provide ads. And when it comes to the data MS is gathering, why would you care about them knowing what TV show you watch when you're waiting for your Killer Instinct match to load when you already let them see all your emails, search terms, tweets, facebook message and web history?
Of all the complaints about the X1, this is the only one I really can't get my head around, hell even if they were planning to film my living room they wouldn't be learning anything about me they don't already know, and I barely post anything online.
It's pretty much what I expected; no non-game ads until the console and market share is established and that'll be when they swarm the dash with adverts. This whole Kinect thing though, I can't help but feel that this was the principle aim of this console since the beginning; you just don't invest billions into a venture into an industry that is down YoY consistently without some sort of major revenue source to back it up.
Because every time they cross it, that line moves ever so slightly further away from the consumer. It's what happens in pretty much every industry.
Prisoner KSC2-303
Member
Even if there weren't some grand Machiavellian plan behind their moves, I think someone at MS needs to accept that, as a company, they will never be particularly trusted.
The fact that their messaging on a range of issues seems so devoid of the ability to see how they're perceived just makes them seem even more untrustworthy.
On issues like ads, it's hard to tell whether they just want to push them forwards and to hell with those who don't care for them, or if they genuinely believe they're doing everyone a favour. In a way, i'd almost prefer the former as it at least demonstrates some logical, if unsavoury, thinking.
The fact that their messaging on a range of issues seems so devoid of the ability to see how they're perceived just makes them seem even more untrustworthy.
On issues like ads, it's hard to tell whether they just want to push them forwards and to hell with those who don't care for them, or if they genuinely believe they're doing everyone a favour. In a way, i'd almost prefer the former as it at least demonstrates some logical, if unsavoury, thinking.
Art Teitlebaum
Member
Brave New Marketing World.
This makes me wanna puke. I'm sooo close to quit console gaming completely after the present gen. And Google&Apple aren't any better. We're all consumer sheep and they're trying to shove ads down our throats 24/7.
This makes me wanna puke. I'm sooo close to quit console gaming completely after the present gen. And Google&Apple aren't any better. We're all consumer sheep and they're trying to shove ads down our throats 24/7.
to make this easy:
if YOU dont care to have a state of the art 3d camera and voice recognition installed into your house
so that advertisers kn ow what you are doing inside your house,
then more power to you.
BUT, trying to say stuff like "its normal", "no harm done", you must underastand that this mindset will definitely not fly with everybody.
and usually, people that say its good to have your personal data collected and sold, its the same people that work for those things or people that have their sites open for business of such kind.
Iacobellis
Junior Member
Shit... I liked Inside Xbox. Sure Trixie got harassed because of her looks but that didn't matter.
The new Xbox team is one I don't like.
You just proved my point. And, just how ready is the PS4? Really really ready? Or Really really really ready?
@killatopak and I love your avatar =P
killatopak
Member
netoambrosio
Banned
Expect a mandatory pack-in cam for ps5 and wiiU2
Chobel
Member
Sony too, and Nintendo too too.
Not really. You could email Steve Jobs direct and there was a good chance he would respond. The difference is he knew what he was talking about and wasn't being shifty all the time unlike MS. Not sure what happens now at Apple.
But you are right though: every new day brings some fresh bad new for the Microsoft camp. They might as well say nothing until release. I called this ad stuff a while ago but I work in the industry so this all makes sense to me. It was quite obvious what it was all about.
I am really genuinely curious to see how much this Frankenstein's console will sell with all this negative press it's picked up.
ehhh,,. look at this news..
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-10-07-microsoft-moves-to-calm-fear-over-xbox-one-advertising
this quote is pure gold..
So MS is using neogaf for "advertising"...lol
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-10-07-microsoft-moves-to-calm-fear-over-xbox-one-advertising
this quote is pure gold..
So MS is using neogaf for "advertising"...lol
Miles Quaritch
Member
you're not thinking clearly if that's your interpretation of their comment.
Are you surprised? Microsoft sends wave after wave of" reputation managers" over here after all...
did you notice the ""..? it was kind of a sarcastic joke..
Penello keeps linking us to Microsofts own site (with the EULA), but the spokesperson here linke Eurogamer to a comment made by Penello on Neogaf.. I just find that kind of funny.
sublimit
Banned
The good thing in todays day and age is that information like this can be exposed to public's awareness instantly.One week ago i was talking to my best friend's brother who is a very casual gamer at best (he only plays Pro Evo) and surprisingly he knew everything about MS's initial plans and subsequent 180's.
It's still incredible that MS is continuing trying to pull something as douchy as their advertisement plans but if someone knows about their plans and still buys an XB1 then there's no excuse for him/her.
It's still incredible that MS is continuing trying to pull something as douchy as their advertisement plans but if someone knows about their plans and still buys an XB1 then there's no excuse for him/her.
Even when Kinect is used in games it can get... a little scary. Consider a F2P game that monitors your mood and, when it notices you are in the right state of mind, it asks you if you want to pay for something. Furthermore, it can manipulate game events to steer you toward purchase decisions. It may even model your personality type to decide on the best way to extract money.
This kind of monetization could be developed into a science with the aid of Kinect data.
This kind of monetization could be developed into a science with the aid of Kinect data.
I think that's a bizarre way for a corporation to behave. Instead of having an official comment to make they say "go and check what he wrote on the forum". Weird.
What does "Guest13" and "Guest15" mean? Is there some kind of local or online database and this is the 13th unidentified person that uses this Kinect? So if he comes back in a couple of days he will be rocgnized as "Guest13" again?
And what does "Identifying" mean? Is the system checking a local or online database to identify this person? Based on what data? Voice samples? Will he be "Guest16"?
A bit of OT:
The guy in the middle does have a controller, yet system says he's without, guy on the right is without controller, but xbone insists he has one.
No, Medhi did not mention any biometric data, you cannot identify someone by whether they like something or not, or how their body reacts to something. Biometrics are biological traits that can be used to uniquely identify you over someone else. They would have to be sending an identifier along with this data for advertisers to tie them together. Whether they will do this or not will be discoverable given the fact that these things are flowing through our personal networks. Just like things that are being sent from our phones are usually discovered by someone snooping packets.
We could then go further down the rabbit hole and say that perhaps MS won't send the data immediately during or after an ad(because that would be easily identifiable, discoverable, and decryptable). They will hold the data and then send at some other time where the data is harder to parse from other data.
I think they are not going to take the risk of saying they are not sending identifying information in documentation, and then send it anyway. Especially since this data is coming from our own networks. The shitstorm would negate any possible profits.
painful fart
Member
Shit! I been thinking about that book, ever since I read the OP.
At least in the book the surveillance device was "free".
Funny it's free enterprise that will bring us the tool that a totalitarian regime would envy.
By breast-feeding us tailored ad campaigns based on our reactions and material status, it could manipulate a large part of our life from what cereals we feed the children to which party we give our vote.
Albert telling us that the data-mining of our life will be optional does not really give me any comfort. Once the console sales have reached a critical mass they can offer Live gold for free if you let them scan your life. And who doesn't want to save a buck? The revenue stream from the ads will likely outperform the live fees by far.
This is some scary shit famousmortimer is telling us about.
Sorc3r3r
Member
I hope that the people being redirected here by that article will open this thread and read some of the stuff Famous has written.
After all the changes they have made since the reveal the fact that kinect is still packed in, in my opinion, is very telling.
I think that the preorders before the 180s were really really bad, worse than the worse pessimistic projection.
In the end they were expecting for the price they were asking and the requirements the final user had to meet in order to use their console a small userbase, mostly UK and USA big cities people.
The main target was those 40 millions with xblg.
40 millions families MS were "selling" to ad companies and collecting datas and money.
Something went very very wrong after the reveal.
Now they can only guarantee that every xbox one is sold with kinect but no more that the final user have the thing plugged in or in function, less control less money.
Less money also from the core userbase that is looking to ps4 due to their choices and policies and that their are trying to run after with more and more "balanced tech talk".
Another risk is coming from 3rd party relation in my opinion, if their box is not enough capable and if this will be coupled with a small userbase, the xbox one may be leaved behind just like the wii u, i do not think it will happen, but the market has no mercy.
BTW as much this may be bad for MS, this is a great victory for the costumer.
After all the changes they have made since the reveal the fact that kinect is still packed in, in my opinion, is very telling.
I think that the preorders before the 180s were really really bad, worse than the worse pessimistic projection.
In the end they were expecting for the price they were asking and the requirements the final user had to meet in order to use their console a small userbase, mostly UK and USA big cities people.
The main target was those 40 millions with xblg.
40 millions families MS were "selling" to ad companies and collecting datas and money.
Something went very very wrong after the reveal.
Now they can only guarantee that every xbox one is sold with kinect but no more that the final user have the thing plugged in or in function, less control less money.
Less money also from the core userbase that is looking to ps4 due to their choices and policies and that their are trying to run after with more and more "balanced tech talk".
Another risk is coming from 3rd party relation in my opinion, if their box is not enough capable and if this will be coupled with a small userbase, the xbox one may be leaved behind just like the wii u, i do not think it will happen, but the market has no mercy.
BTW as much this may be bad for MS, this is a great victory for the costumer.
I agree, we should get some great cosplay out of this.
I am sorry, but it is their own doing.
If they hadn't been thinking and planning like they did, then they would have a lot less stuff to deal with.
I would like that more people get awareness about what microsoft is trying to do here. not less.
How would this work if MS has "sold" the device to advertisers with Kinect as a big selling point?
Console and software sales > Kinect advertising revenue