Bojji
Member
You mean fanboys? Is is trolling when it's the truth?
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Alan Wake 2 reportedly runs at 840p 60 FPs on the PS5 Pro; Remedy responds, no confirmation, more details coming
You mean fanboys? Is is trolling when it's the truth?
AW2 sold max 2 millions and still did not make a single euro of profit.
So if you split maybe it sold 1m max on PS5 (probably less). Out of these owners how many do you think will go to the Pro ? Maybe 100k at best.
Do you think remedy is going to put a lot of effort in a version with a minimal user base for a projet that is not profitable ? It’s simply not worth it, they ll just switch FSR to PSSR, change the Ini to maybe toggle some RT and call it a day.
This is why I would advise some people to wait and see before buying the console. For most devs the business case will just not be there, so unless Sony makes it extremely easy and cost free to tap in additional power of the Pro, they simply won’t bother
vaibhavpisal
Member
MS is throwing money to Colt Eastwood and Senjutsu Sage.
This is a big blow to PS5 pro PR as both have huge influence on discourse.
Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
40fps feels closer to 60fps than to 30fps. Have you try it? I prefer 60fps of course but it's not practically 30fps. So diigital froundy is wrong when they tested those 40fps at first and you are right?
You can't even spell Digital Foundry. How are you even trying to debate this?
Mr Moose
Member
Senua
Member
Yea, and looks even worse in motion.It's got that extra fuzz around the characters, which are soft as it is anyway.
Dorfdad
Gold Member
I don’t give a flying frog what the base resolution is. As long as the image I see on my screen is close or 4k and looks clean at 60fps. I’m never going to zoom in 5x and look at a tree branch in a still motion shot and bitch.
PSSR is going to be doing the uplifting so I’m going to wait and see what it looks like and not give these click baiters reasons to keep posting half truths. Zero chance the final resolution is 847 on the pro. That might be base but it won’t look nearly as bad as before.
PSSR is going to be doing the uplifting so I’m going to wait and see what it looks like and not give these click baiters reasons to keep posting half truths. Zero chance the final resolution is 847 on the pro. That might be base but it won’t look nearly as bad as before.
HerjansEagleFeeder
Member
It can't run your favourite game in 60 fps because.. some other dev is incompetent?
Snake29
RSI Employee of the Year
But people with more expensive machines use DLSS on their PC in performance mode with is also at the same level of internal rendering res....
The output is still 4K.
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Senua
Member
No one said that was the final output dude, why don't people read
KyoZz
Tag, you're it.
I have a 4090 and I use DLAA. DLSS quality can look good in some games if you don't have the choice but as soon as you drop to balanced it's blurry as fuck. Let alone performance.
Bojji
Member
I don't think anyone sane uses less than 1080p for their DLSS in 4k output.
Zathalus
Member
DF is the one praising PSSR. It’s bizarre that people are taking offense to that.
PaintTinJr
Member
Not with FSR, XeSS or DLSS that have all shown they are in capable of doing a good job with such a source, although 840p is 35% more pixels than 720p, which would help those three techniques, but PSSR isn't like those methods that use a image of 720p or 840p.
PSSR is rendering at 1440p or 2160p just with holes so that only the detail areas in total amount to 840p's worth of pixels render - which is not an 840p image as DF are pushing - and then AI ML hole filling and lancoz hole filling techniques are used to reconstruct the remaining parts of the image....which yields great results and releases resources to render higher quality at the source pixels yielding even better final results.
Sure mr perfect. That's your argument because you know you are wrong. You lose.
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Assassins Creed Shadows also runs in 846p on the PS5 Pro:
wccftech.com
PlayStation 5 Pro Early Analysis Highlights Improvements for First-Party Titles, Hogwarts Legacy, Dragon's Dogma 2, Alan Wake 2 and Others
A new analysis from Digital Foundry reveals how multiple games take advantage of the power of the PlayStation 5 Pro
wccftech.com
Senua
Member
PS fanboys are out of control since the Pro announcement I swear lol
Snake29
RSI Employee of the Year
What i mean is that the output is still 4K on your screen on the console. This whole converstation of this thread is so pointless because nobody cares when we talk about FSR or DLSS.
I just see a lot of people who don't understand this technic.
ShadyAcshuns
Member
The term "brokies" has been floating around because of PS5 Pro from people labeling those who say they aren't interested in it.
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Senua
Member
But what it renders from matters bro, even if you have a great reconstruction technique like DLSS or PSSR
Yes but you compared it to something making it look like a worse upgrade. You said 6700 to 6800. Except that's ignoring completely the improved raytracing performance and AI upscaling performance.2070 SUPER (and it is few % slower than PS5 in the end). Pro is weaker than 4070
Theoretically it was "4x" but in most games it was nowhere near. That was the whole point. That using peak theoretical teraflop vs 45% was disingenuous from Denchdeckard. Even if you ignore VOPD 33tf it would be 17tf in the PS5 Pro amounting to 67% but the 45% faster rendering is not the same metric as teraflops. It's a far more honest number than using peak theoretical tf like he did for one console to conclude 400% vs 45%.Xbox one X was ACTUALLY that much faster, teraflops or not - even more so if you include IPC gains from GCN 1.0 to Polaris (1.3?). Sony themselves say that they have 67% more compute units. They don't even touch that bullshit AMD 2x teraflops:
At least they are honest about this...
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Mister Wolf
Gold Member
Quality mode or bust for me too.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Yeah, I never go below Quality Mode. If I can't maintain 60+ with DLSS Quality, I reduce settings, I don't drop to Balanced. I do know 4K DLSS Performance can look quite good on a 4K set, but I mainly game on a 3440x1440 ultrawide monitor, so Balanced isn't good enough.
Snake29
RSI Employee of the Year
What matters is the output and if the image quality is clean. It doesn't matter what internally happens.
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
The input resolution is the primary determiner of what you desire.
Senua
Member
......
Zathalus
Member
It does though. Below a certain resolution threshold you are not going to match/exceed a 4K output. Take GT7 for example, it is rendering at 1188p upscaled to 4K via PSSR. Does it look better than 1188p? Of course it does, but it wouldn’t fool most people into thinking it’s a native 4K image.
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PaintTinJr
Member
Not true, and anyone with good knowledge of signal processing would tell you that excellent capturing of high frequency detail is more important than the amount of bandwidth to capture it.
Bojji
Member
It does, quality of final picture drops when you go 1440p - > 1200p -> 1080p -> 720p.
To me DLSS is unusable below 1080p.
Output resolution being the most important reminds me of this famous quote:
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
You're correct, but what he simply means is that what matters is the final image. Within the context we are in, however, the input resolution matters a whole lot for the final resolve. However, if we get to a point where 360p can look like 4K, the internal res will stop mattering. In fact, the better upscaling the less the base resolution matters, which is what I believe
Snake29
was getting at.The focus should be on the result. For instance, everyone is going, "840p trollolol, it sucks", but there's almost no talk or questions about what it looks like. Is it better than Quality Mode on the base PS5? is it full of ghosting, flickering, and artifacts? How's the stability? We can infer a lot of information given the base resolution, which is what we're doing, but I think this discussion is missing the forest for the trees. No one talks about the final image or cares about it...
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
Lumpyoatmeal
Member
840p US dollars sounds about right. The secret sauce to PSSR is its ability to upscale your credit card debt.
Senua
Member
But we're talking about now, and by all accounts PSSR is below DLSS in terms of execution, but let's say it's on par. 720p to 4k does not look good with DLSS. So to say " It doesn't matter what internally happens" right now is asinine.You're correct, but what he simply means is that what matters is the final image. Within the context we are in, however, the input resolution matters a whole lot for the final resolve. However, if we get to a point where 360p can look like 4K, the internal res will stop mattering. In fact, the better upscaling the less the base resolution matters, which is what I believe
The focus should be on the result. For instance, everyone is going, "840p trollolol, it sucks", but there's almost no talk or questions about what it looks like. Is it better than Quality Mode on the base PS5? is it full of ghosting, flickering, and artifacts? How's the stability? We can infer a lot of information given the base resolution, which is what we're doing, but I think this discussion is missing the forest for the trees. No one talks about the final image or cares about it...
Negotiator101
Member
nightmare-slain
Gold Member
Don’t worry, I heard PSSR is better than DLSS 
Kacho
Gold Member
Not even just that, 4K 60fps across the board. Sometimes even 8K.Don’t worry, I heard PSSR is better than DLSS
nightmare-slain
Gold Member
Don’t forget 120fps…
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Like I told Mr. Wolf, you aren't wrong. I just think the point Snake29 was getting across is that we shouldn't focus on the internal resolution but instead talk about the result. Going 840p lolol is eschewing that it's reconstructing to (presumably 1440p) and that's what this discussion should be about.
I said myself that I don't use DLSS below Balanced on my 3440x1440 monitor and I believe 864p is right around that.
The final image won't look great in my opinion (base res is too low), but I'm interested in how PSSR performs in regards to image artifacts.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
No shit, why would they be 4k if they're showing of PSSR
TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
Exactly, this is what I've paid for the latest games I've bought:
Dragon's Dogma 2: 43€ (pre-order)
SMT VV: Deluxe Edition: 54€ (pre-order)
Elden Ring's DLC: 30€ (pre-order)
Space Marine 2: 46€ (day1 purchase)
Metaphor: ReFantazio: 52€ (pre-order)
I do pre-order in many cases since those cheap keys might run out, but man, I don't remember the last time I paid full price for a game, and much less paying +70€ for a game. And let's not talk about Steam sales in which I might purchase 10 games for less than 100€ lol.
Between cheaper games, no subscription needed for stuff like online play or cloud saving I'm quite sure I'm expending less money compared to if I was on console.
Ronin_7
Member
DLSS 4 modes all look good but a higher base resolution will always look better of course.
What a time for the gaming tech community.
On the one hand you have tech obsessed Xbox loyalists running around in circles attempting to dismiss PS5 Pro with the same nonsense thrown at the PS5.
Then we have PC (well Nvidia) loyalists trying to convince themselves PSSR cannot match (or at leatst be comparable) DLSS.
Add into the mix all sides (including PlayStation) not really understanding the intricacies of AI upscaling, and it's the blind leading the blind, in unashamed platform wars.
On the one hand you have tech obsessed Xbox loyalists running around in circles attempting to dismiss PS5 Pro with the same nonsense thrown at the PS5.
Then we have PC (well Nvidia) loyalists trying to convince themselves PSSR cannot match (or at leatst be comparable) DLSS.
Add into the mix all sides (including PlayStation) not really understanding the intricacies of AI upscaling, and it's the blind leading the blind, in unashamed platform wars.
Senua
Member
Ultra performance doesn't look good, and that's at 4k. Try it at a lower output res and it looks like absolute garbage
PaintTinJr
Member
I'm guessing you missed the whole argument and switch from analogue to digital for music, photo and video? because all of those mediums in analogue are more raw data, but digital encoding with Discrete Fourier Transforms transcended that, so signal processing is far more important than resolution, you only need see a picture from a smartphone with AI enhanced camera and compare the quality of that to the best analogue could do and realize a smartphone in portrait shots is probably 20x the effective resolution of the best analogue could ever do.You're correct, but what he simply means is that what matters is the final image. Within the context we are in, however, the input resolution matters a whole lot for the final resolve. However, if we get to a point where 360p can look like 4K, the internal res will stop mattering. In fact, the better upscaling the less the base resolution matters, which is what I believe
The focus should be on the result. For instance, everyone is going, "840p trollolol, it sucks", but there's almost no talk or questions about what it looks like. Is it better than Quality Mode on the base PS5? is it full of ghosting, flickering, and artifacts? How's the stability? We can infer a lot of information given the base resolution, which is what we're doing, but I think this discussion is missing the forest for the trees. No one talks about the final image or cares about it...
twilo99
Gold Member
That depends on how good DLSS can get over time.. what if we can run 360p base with no major loss?
What’s the cutoff?
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TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
Hey, I think balanced can look OK, specially if you play on a big TV a few meters away from it.
On a monitor tho... yeah I can imagine that would look kinda shit.
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
I preordered the Ultimate Edition of Stalker 2 that comes with the season pass for $69. Black Myth for $52. Metaphor for $62. FF16 Complete Edition for $57. Visions Of Mana for $50. Green Man Gaming, CD Keys, and Gamivo are my go to key resellers.
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TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
Fuck, I forgot about that one. Just saw the standard edition for Steam at 33€, almost half the price and the damn game isn't even out.
TheRaidenPT
Member
DLAA is pretty good I also have been using it on my 4080M on some games at 1440p.
To me DLSS is only worth it on 'Quality'
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