burger_shot56
Member
Sorry, didn't follow ps4pro performance updates much lately. What is the consensus on ps4pro for 1080p tv owners? I don't have regular ps4 and thinking about picking up ps4 slim or pro.
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All PS4 Pro enhanced games (native support and boosted)
- Thread starter Liabe Brave
- Start date
Just look at the chart on the first page, find the games you're going to play, and determine if the benefits are worth it to you.
Personally, for the games I play, the Pro was a no-brainer.
Maybe not this thread but most talk like its such a minor upgrade its not worth it. I don't agree at all. In fact I'm more surprised more people don't talk positively about it. I'm a sucker for downsampling anyway. I find it gives you a beautiful, clean image. If you compare two screens you may not notice it right away but in person I find the difference substantial. If you are picky about performance and image quality I would go with the Pro. Especially if its your first PS4. Having an extra 500gigs to work with is great as well.
Liabe Brave
Member
Great, thanks! I was shocked to find that the color fringing is actually in the image, the result of some of the most aggressive CA I've seen. But the dithering and posterization is gone, making things clearer to count.
For Honor definitely does seem to be 2160c, a full 4K resolution via checkerboard. It should be noted that, in addition to CBR sawtooth, there seem to be further temporal artifacts. Even some lightly-moving objects have ghosted afterimages (which are also subject to CA!). I don't know how visible it is at full res and in motion, but in screenshots it's not pretty. Thankfully, it doesn't seem to happen on every object in motion.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
@Liabe Brave I'll be posting these in the RE7 comparison topic too, but here are some 4K JPEG's from bright(er) areas, which should hopefully be sufficient for getting a pixel count from the edges.
edit: here's some 4K JPEG's from the opening. These areas are in day time, so should be better. Though, the CA is very prominent in these:
edit: here's some 4K JPEG's from the opening. These areas are in day time, so should be better. Though, the CA is very prominent in these:
PsihoPerihelion
Member
Thanks! The ghosting you talk about is not noticeable in motion. The Game looks clean as hell on my screen.
Karspankey
Banned
For Honor looks really good on a 1080p set. Can't wait to try it on the 4K set I have coming soon ^_^
thatJohann
Member
Did the latest dishonored 2 patch add downsampling for ps4 pro on 1080p? Or still nothing?
sugarhigh4242
Banned
Those For Honor pics look pretty as hell. I thought it was a Witcher 3 Pro upgrade at first 
I just got Dishonored 2, im looking forward to checking those sweet sweet grafixxxxx.
I just got Dishonored 2, im looking forward to checking those sweet sweet grafixxxxx.
Liabe Brave
Member
Sorry if I wasn't clear earlier. When I said this...
me said:
...I meant on the new patch too. From my analysis of the shots Karspankey posted, Dishonored 2 still does not have downsampling on a 1080p display.
Please note that I am not infallible and could be mistaken.
Karspankey
Banned
Yup! Just be aware that some games will not downsample for reasons unknown. The games in question are denoted by a red x next to 4K in the list.
Liabe Brave
Member
I've reached out to the devs of games that appeared on the PlayStation Store as "Pro support", but for which no details were available. Several of them got back to me and said this was mistaken, and their games are not enhanced on Pro. I've removed them from the to-check list in the OP. However, it seems that Trove (which I believe is currently in open beta) does have improved framerate. No other details were given, but I've added the game to the main list. As I get more answers, I'll make further changes to this title and others.
I've also made a slight change to Resident Evil VII, reducing the figure for Pro resolution. This is due to Digital Foundry contacting Capcom and getting a precise number from the developer. However, multiple people, including not just me but GAF members with more technical background, still are finding evidence of the higher resolution I used to list. This seems to indicate, at the very least, that the game is using some sort of reconstruction to more finely resolve details onscreen. (I personally still think it possible resolution is simply higher than stated.) I'll continue to monitor the situation and make alterations as I feel necessary.
As always, thanks to those who post links, screenshots and impressions!
I've also made a slight change to Resident Evil VII, reducing the figure for Pro resolution. This is due to Digital Foundry contacting Capcom and getting a precise number from the developer. However, multiple people, including not just me but GAF members with more technical background, still are finding evidence of the higher resolution I used to list. This seems to indicate, at the very least, that the game is using some sort of reconstruction to more finely resolve details onscreen. (I personally still think it possible resolution is simply higher than stated.) I'll continue to monitor the situation and make alterations as I feel necessary.
As always, thanks to those who post links, screenshots and impressions!
DangerMouse
Member
According to that, 0.2 runs at 4K 60fps - was 2.8 known to have an increased resolution ?
Chaserjoey
Member
Not sure about the 4K thing but they got 60fps wrong. It's unlocked but sits around 50fps IIRC. I thought DDD was the only one in that collection that was 4K.
Just a thought but you might want to turn that into another, although smaller, list so people don't start asking why X game isn't on the list.
eastx
Member
That's a good idea.
Liabe Brave
Member
Darn it! Just when I'd whittled away at the "unconfirmed" list, that offical Sony website goes and adds a bunch back:
Atelier Firis: The Alchemist and the Mysterious Journey
Birthdays: The Beginning
Blazblue: Central Fiction
Danganronpa V3: Killing Harmony
Nights of Azure 2: Bride of the New Moon
Rollercoaster Dreams (also VR)
Romance of the Three Kingdoms 13
Samurai Warriors: Sanada Maru
Schoolgirl Zombie Hunter
Utawarerumono: Mask of Truth
Valkyria Revolution
The Witch and the Hundred Knight 2
WRC 6
No game in KH II.8 runs above 1080p, to my knowledge. The 0.2 section hits about 45-55fps during most combat, but can touch 60fps during exploration.
I'm glad you agree! These lists have been in the OP since the 22nd.
One of the lists there shows games with announced support--from the developer, publisher, or Sony--which haven't been checked yet. The other list there shows such announced games which I have checked, but couldn't find any enhancements. (That doesn't mean there aren't any, just that I didn't see them.)If you can contribute screenshots, video, impressions, or links to analysis elsewhere on any of those games, please do! That holds true for the ones I just listed in this post too, which I'll add to the OP later. Thanks in advance!
BONKERS
Member
It will be visible once you notice it. And once you see it, you can't unsee it. (FFXV has the worst Temporal AA i've seen in a long time. Utter garbage. Most TAA is at least livable with the issues they introduce or fail to tackle. Even UE4 TAA which has a lot of problems. But this takes the cake. I'd rather play FFXV with no AA than use the terrible set up they have going )
After all these years, seeing temporal artifacts from bad clamping and other junk is impossible for me not to see. CBR artifacts on top, is just icing.
At least IQ looks decent here, statically at least it looks great.(Sans CA) Unlike in Watch Dogs 2. Which looks terrible with CBR.
Autofokus
Member
Fallout 4 -- Patch 1.9 incoming
- Native 1440p resolution
- Enhanced draw distance for trees, grass, objects and NPCs
- Enhanced Godray effects
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Finally.
Will be nice playing Fallout 4 the first time with a Pro patch installed. Hoping all the release-time issues have been resolved through out the last year via patches as well.
Ricky Ricardo
Member
I have a 24" 1080p monitor and a CUH-1215A PS4. I sit maybe 2.5ft away from it, if that.
The opportunity has presented itself to acquire a PS4 Pro (with the trade-in of both my Xbox One S 500GB and my PS4 500GB, of course) for a mere $78.
This is, frankly, too good a deal to pass up on, IMO.
That said, despite the fact that I'll get a bigger HDD, as well as a 5GHz connection, I'm still a little dubious as to the benefits I'll receive as a 1080p user with this machine.
Is there any sort of explicit comparison I can look at that compares a "4K" output from the Pro to a supersampled 1080p output? I don't find that Youtube is really good for that.
The opportunity has presented itself to acquire a PS4 Pro (with the trade-in of both my Xbox One S 500GB and my PS4 500GB, of course) for a mere $78.
This is, frankly, too good a deal to pass up on, IMO.
That said, despite the fact that I'll get a bigger HDD, as well as a 5GHz connection, I'm still a little dubious as to the benefits I'll receive as a 1080p user with this machine.
Is there any sort of explicit comparison I can look at that compares a "4K" output from the Pro to a supersampled 1080p output? I don't find that Youtube is really good for that.
PsihoPerihelion
Member
According to Digital Foundry, the For Honor beta runs at 1440p. I found that really strange as I took a couple screenshots the other day and looks close to 4K. Even our very own Liabe Brave pixel counted the game and said is 4K CBR.
Liabe Brave
Member
If you're using a 1080p monitor, there's really no reason to look for 4K screenshots, or do comparisons. What I think you should do is just check out the 1080p output from Pro, and see if it looks good to you.
For that purpose, the console screenshot thread is a good resource. I'm sure there are also Pro shots in the latter parts of last year's thread too.
somecrazymember
Banned
Am i thw only one waiting for a Rocket League Ps4Pro update? I would buy a Ps4Pro just for that game to get rid of the jaggies / aliasing
One's alleged to be on the way in the near-term.
Liabe Brave
Member
Can you link the article/video where they say this? A quick search didn't find anything. I'll investigate, and redo my counts, when I can. Please keep in mind that I can be wrong.
Do you have a link to that? All I've seen around is pure speculation.
Thanks! I'll look when I get a chance. I don't think it appears on the official Japanese Pro support page, though.
Sweet, thank you. I'm sure there's nothing but you never know.
BONKERS
Member
Basically a PSVita game, and how is it not native 4k with good AF? There are better looking games that hit native 4k with decent AF on PS4P.1080p:
4k:
Same to Digimon above. Which at least has good AF, but that's clearly just 1080p upscaled to 4k.
And,WTF, why is the PS4 subsampling the color when output at 1080p? It looks super pixellated with anything red.
Here's the same image downsampled manually with a linear filter
Here's a comparison.
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/199100
The recently posted Battleborn shots suffer the same issue. What the hell.
https://abload.de/img/amarectv2017-01-1917-5gze5.png
https://abload.de/img/amarectv2017-01-1918-ezbr8.png
This shot of Fate also has the issue. These are PNGs. So unless the PS4 is somehow compressing the PNG and using subsampling. It makes no sense!
https://abload.de/img/amarectv2017-01-1717-uhsd3.png
And again, the 4k screenshots do NOT have this issue. Only the 1080p output.
Surely i'm not the only one who has noticed this??
What the heck is going on here. This looks awful.
If these games aren't using HDR, then why is the red component subsampled?? Even then, the subsampling at 4k shouldn't be at all visible once downsampled to 1080p.
More importantly, I thought PS4Pro support was mandatory after November. So why are so many games coming out with barely any upgrades or sub optimal marginal improvements? (Like the games that only bump up from 900p to 1080p. I mean seriously? All that extra GPU power and that's all you can do?) I thought Cerny said it was only 1% more work did he not?
Many of these games will likely remain in the state they are without any further improvements. Which is just frustrating because there's so much potential.
It's the TAA+CBR that causes the confusion. On closer inspection of those screenshots. It's definitely not native 4k.
Where as with this screenshot https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/397/32423499502_ccbee7ed5f_o.png it's a lot harder to tell. Because of TAA inconsistency and CBR artifacts that vary over time.
The CA doesn't help either as it is masking a lot of detail.
Liabe Brave
Member
Of course not. The PS4 is not responsible (as you can tell by Share shots from other users), it's Omegabalmung9's capture card. He posts Share shots for 4K, but capture shots for 1080p. I haven't brought it up previously because it doesn't interfere with my analysis, and he's been very generous with his time to grab so many comparison shots.
How does mandatory support dictate any particular level of support? Games on every platform have variable technical adroitness.
Agreed with all of this. Going back through to count more, I found results over a very wide range, including up to 2160c as I initially said. For example, this edge:
It was actually pretty tough to find a 1440c count--most were in between--but I did find some, including in the same frame like this one:
So it seems this is a situation like Resident Evil VII: the TAA is improving the effective resolution of edges above the base resolution (which does seem to be 1440c). This is something I'll have to be cognizant of when counting in the future.
BONKERS
Member
Of course not. The PS4 is not responsible (as you can tell by Share shots from other users), it's Omegabalmung9's capture card. He posts Share shots for 4K, but capture shots for 1080p. I haven't brought it up previously because it doesn't interfere with my analysis, and he's been very generous with his time to grab so many comparison shots.
How does mandatory support dictate any particular level of support? Games on every platform have variable technical adroitness.
Agreed with all of this. Going back through to count more, I found results over a very wide range, including up to 2160c as I initially said. For example, this edge:
It was actually pretty tough to find a 1440c count--most were in between--but I did find some, including in the same frame like this one:
So it seems this is a situation like Resident Evil VII: the TAA is improving the effective resolution of edges above the base resolution (which does seem to be 1440c). This is something I'll have to be cognizant of when counting in the future.
OH. I didn't know that. I thought those were direct captures. Thought I was losing my mind.
Is there any reason why not just switch output to 1080p in the dashboard and take a PNG screenshot that way?
That's true. But I expected better. It just feels so inconsistent when they are marketing this thing, claiming it's super easy to use Pro features over base PS4 in development. But the results seem half assed for so many games. Especially for 4k output.
I mean considering already the large library prior that wont' get updated, not having every game that is released after the Pro was, with proper effort to take real advantage of it. Just feels irritating.
I was really considering buying console versions of Multiplatform games for once instead of PC versions for more stable performance and better image quality. And it just seems like more of the same. Inconsistency.
I mean, given the big leap in GPU power from the base PS4, is not wrong to expect better? Especially from games that look like they could easily do more compared to the big AAA games that top out at 1440p without CBR.
Pixel counting feels inadequate when AA is in the mix. Especially if it's good AA. You'd really only be able to tell by counting the left over aliased edges that are missed maybe. But when they aren't.
Like this image for example
I think Ratchet and Clank is another example.
http://d3cw3dd2w32x2b.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Ratchet_Metropolis_PS4Pro.jpg
Liabe Brave
Member
Well, one thing is that if you just change the video output to 1080p, Share still takes 4K screenshots upscaled. You have to separately set Share options to 1080p as well, I think. So that's less than convenient. (Some other folks do post 3840x2160 shots no matter the rendering resolution, but it's harder to find a good host for that size so I get the urge to avoid hassle.)
It's very understandable to want better, everyone always wants better! I do think you get into more vague territory when you start to expect better, though. Is it really owed to you? The Pro hasn't been sold on "this is exactly the results you should expect", but on more general claims of improvement. (Which is why this thread needs to exist to collate details!) And the games are improved. That these improvements can occasionally be underwhelming...well, isn't that true of every type of entertainment?
Yes, Pro seems to have the power to get higher results than we see in some games. But even the big AAA titles coming out right now had gone through the majority of their development before Pro was announced to third parties. Technical choices made early on could've hampered Pro resolution. There might also be business reasons--if the publisher refused to expand budget even by the tiny amount needed for Pro support. Or perhaps the studio was expecting Pro to bomb in the market.
And for indie studios, I think support is actually pretty good. Many games with simple graphics have very big enhancements on Pro, up to full 4K. And while the number of indie games on my list isn't a huge proportion of all released, that may be partly an artifact of evidence availability. Because a bunch of indies have had Pro support claimed, but no one in this thread, or that I can find easily elsewhere, has posted 4K screenshots and footage to be analyzed.
Which is why I finally began contacting indie developers directly myself. So I can add another 4K60 game to the list (probably). I don't have material to analyze, so take this developer claim with a little grain of salt. (Especially since they're called Giant Margarita.
But they didn't just say "4K support", when I asked they specified 3840x2160, unlike other games at less. The game is also simple enough graphically that this is believable. Looking past the graphics, it does seem to have tons of power-ups and modes, so if any of you want to support the little guy, consider buying it. Protip: One of the modes is called "rat-king", so that's cool.I've also added the Rise of the Tomb Raider bonus experience Blood Ties to the VR list. Watching Pro and regular videos on Youtube does seem to show slight improvements on the higher hardware.
EDITED TO ADD: Sorry, forgot to mention that my checks support what BONKERS said, and Digimon World: Next Order is 1080p. Even the publisher watermarks are upscaled.
In addition, I've updated Resident Evil VII with a little more detail. And finally, I added a whole bunch of Japanese games to the "claimed but unanalyzed" list in the OP. Any screenshots, videos, impressions, or links to such are greatly appreciated as always.
Thanks!
2blackcats
Member
I know I thanked you already but just wanted to say thanks again.
You're doing a phenomenal job with this thread.
You're doing a phenomenal job with this thread.
Liabe Brave
Member
For giggles I thought I'd take on this challenge:
For your test image, though, pixel counting can only ever give a resolution result up to the image size. So 1920x835 is the highest answer counting would retrieve from here. But skilled people--not necessarily me--can even make educated guesses about higher resolution based on the patterns of the AA. If I were to attempt that here, I'd say this image was originally 8K, with letterboxing.
No need to tell me how I'm wrong, I don't really think I'm experienced enough to do this sort of thing.
Though AA makes steps hard to count, it takes a hell of a lot of blur to totally obscure them. For example, RE VII and For Honor stack TAA, upscaling, and aggressive CA into one big mess...and yet we can still retrieve counts from them. (Close at least, even if not always precise).Pixel counting feels inadequate when AA is in the mix. Especially if it's good AA. You'd really only be able to tell by counting the left over aliased edges that are missed maybe. But when they aren't.
Like this image for example
I doubt anyone could figure out what the resolution originally was in this image.
For your test image, though, pixel counting can only ever give a resolution result up to the image size. So 1920x835 is the highest answer counting would retrieve from here. But skilled people--not necessarily me--can even make educated guesses about higher resolution based on the patterns of the AA. If I were to attempt that here, I'd say this image was originally 8K, with letterboxing.
No need to tell me how I'm wrong, I don't really think I'm experienced enough to do this sort of thing.
If I remember correctly from Cernys interview Insomniac uses some kind of stochastic approach, so resolution might be kind of hard concept. (Could be just buffer size where you gather nearby samples.)
Miggytronz
Gold Member
Any word on War Thunder getting an update?
Liabe Brave
Member
Can you please expand a little bit on what you mean? I'm not sure I quite get it (feel free to explain to me like I'm a child).
A community manager from the developer said on January 16 that "...we are still considering how to implement it and make use of it with such a complex game as War Thunder." So there's no way to say when this might occur, or what it might entail.
I had a quick question regarding this thread in general since I'm a new Pro owner as of tonight. I'll use FIFA as an example. It shows only two rows, Standard and Pro and has 2160p for Pro and 1080 for Standard. Does that mean if I'm playing my Pro on a standard 1080p display, I'm not getting any sort of visual benefits?
My same question stands with Gravity Rush 2. Am I not getting the better draw distance or is that completely separate from its resolution? Meaning I'm getting the better draw distance but still only playing at 1080p. How do I know if supersampling comes into play?
Sorry for all these questions but just want to make sure I'm getting the most out of this thing.
2blackcats
Member
Standard means standard Playstation. You're getting whatever resolution the pro line says super sampled to 1080. (there's a few exceptions but they're marked)
I had a quick question regarding this thread in general since I'm a new Pro owner as of tonight. I'll use FIFA as an example. It shows only two rows, Standard and Pro and has 2160p for Pro and 1080 for Standard. Does that mean if I'm playing my Pro on a standard 1080p display, I'm not getting any sort of visual benefits?
My same question stands with Gravity Rush 2. Am I not getting the better draw distance or is that completely separate from its resolution? Meaning I'm getting the better draw distance but still only playing at 1080p. How do I know if supersampling comes into play?
Sorry for all these questions but just want to make sure I'm getting the most out of this thing.
Judging from my naked eyes, FIFA on PS4 Pro under 1080p doesn't have supersampling as it still has some temporal aliasing.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Nioh Digital Foundry video with info:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUFGpzu8Mss&t=0s
Game supports 3 modes:
1. Action Mode (60 FPS):
OG PS4: 60 FPS, more minor drops in frame rate compared to Pro, dynamic resolution from 1080p to 720p, spends most of the time in 720p.
PS4 Pro: 60 FPS, extremely rare drops, 1080p to 720p, extremely rare that it drops to 720p. Spends most time in 1080p or close.
2. Movie Mode (30 FPS):
OG PS4: 30 FPS, locked to 1080p 99% of the time, frame rate locked and stable.
PS4 Pro: 30 FPS, variable between 4K (NATIVE), 1800p and 1440p per on-screen load, frame rate locked solid 30.
3. Variable Mode (Unlocked frame rate)
OG PS4: Unlocked frame rate (rapid judders between 50, 40, 30), no hard resolution numbers given but mentioned it supports the higher resolution with modified dynamic scaling method.
PS4 Pro: Unlocked frame rate, spends more time in 1440p to 1290p.
Overall they mention Pro is easily the better version of the 2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUFGpzu8Mss&t=0s
Game supports 3 modes:
1. Action Mode (60 FPS):
OG PS4: 60 FPS, more minor drops in frame rate compared to Pro, dynamic resolution from 1080p to 720p, spends most of the time in 720p.
PS4 Pro: 60 FPS, extremely rare drops, 1080p to 720p, extremely rare that it drops to 720p. Spends most time in 1080p or close.
2. Movie Mode (30 FPS):
OG PS4: 30 FPS, locked to 1080p 99% of the time, frame rate locked and stable.
PS4 Pro: 30 FPS, variable between 4K (NATIVE), 1800p and 1440p per on-screen load, frame rate locked solid 30.
3. Variable Mode (Unlocked frame rate)
OG PS4: Unlocked frame rate (rapid judders between 50, 40, 30), no hard resolution numbers given but mentioned it supports the higher resolution with modified dynamic scaling method.
PS4 Pro: Unlocked frame rate, spends more time in 1440p to 1290p.
Overall they mention Pro is easily the better version of the 2.
If your rendering isn't done into a simple array of aligned samples, but jittered version where each sample has own offset from pixel center and changed per frame.
You lose traditional edges and pixels and trade it to noise, for final buffer you gather samples that are within the area defined as pixel.
This combined to temporal anti aliasing could give quite dense cloud of samples to gather.
Liabe Brave
Member
No, it means the opposite. The entries in the list show how the game runs on the hardware, not what it looks like on a particular display. If there's only one row listed for Pro, that's what will be used no matter what type of TV you hook to. So FIFA runs at 2160p and 60fps no matter what. On a 1080p screen, it'll still render at the higher resolution, and be supersampled.
If there's more than one row listed for Pro, then the game offers user-selectable modes. For example, look at Rise of the Tomb Raider.
There are three modes: one high resolution at 30fps, one 1080p with better graphics at 30fps, and one 1080p at 40-60fps. If you connect to a 1080p screen, all three modes will be available. The high-resolution one will give you supersampling. (Though the improved-graphics mode may be preferred on that type of display).
Only a small number of games do not support supersampling. For those, Pro modes will be marked with a red X or an orange dot. A red X means that mode is unavailable on a 1080p display. The orange dot mode will automatically be selected instead. (Users of 4K screens can still switch between modes, but they have to do that by changing output settings in the console OS. Modes can't be changed from within the game.) An example is Dishonored 2:
It does have supersampling. What you're seeing is that FIFA often has lots of small objects in the far distance: crowds, stadium architecture, grass, goal nets, etc. When these details are near pixel-sized they can shimmer and crawl as the camera moves, even with supersampling. It's much reduced from standard PS4, though.
Sorry I missed the Hitman patch coming out a few days ago. I've updated it now.
Looking around, I haven't been able to find any news from Housemarque about the Resogun patch since it was first announced in early December. I have to imagine it'll be very soon, though. They're typically pretty punctual.
Thanks a lot for this! It seems that for the retail release, the standard PS4 version has been improved (in the demo it maxed at 900p, I think). Yet DF are right that the Pro version is much better. In fact, Nioh is one of the few games that runs at double the framerate on the new machine (the usual bump is more like 15fps). I've gone ahead and added the game to that shortlist in the OP. But I'll wait until the Tuesday release date before adding it to the main list.
Okay, that sounds very interesting. Is this something that you're guessing based on general descriptions? Or is this a technique that's definitely been used elsewhere, and you think Ratchet & Clank might too? It seems you would have to be sampling very many times in order that randomness in the jittered array doesn't distort objects as they move. Or am I wrong about that?
Yes, quessing based definitions and old techpapers on stochastic rendering.
Although I really doubt that SR is what they are doing.
Good noise pattern like blue noise should give quite a nice feel even with reasonably small amount of samples.
Fast moving or first hit areas certainly should show more broken edges.
Temporal injection certainly could be something very simple, like fullscreen jitter TAA and resolve to target resolution.
Hoping for Insomniac to release paper soon.