The problem is there are about four/five different arguments, some more valid than others. But instead of actually addressing all the issues, the argument has once again boiled down to the most reductive one. Exactly like Battlefield V. People are deliberately being stupid which is why I don't engage with most posters in this thread. If you are playing stupid then there's no point having a discussion. If you are actually that stupid then there's no point having that discussion.
Argument 1: The size/muscle mass of Abbie. Being explained away with 'you wanna talk about realism?', or 'girls can get that buff'. The argument is not about whether women can get ripped or to post pictures of women now. What it boils down to is world consistency and building. And some people are either disregrading it or genuinely not aware of it. And if you aren't aware it you won't know why it looks stupid and therefore aren;t worth having the discussion with. Let's boil down LOTR to magic elves, tiny people, wizards and a big eye in the sky - I mean, why not throw several robots in there for a sequel? What about Uncharted 5? We've already seen paranormal type of enemies, Drake fucking swings out of planes and can jump miles. There are strange magic stones that make people immortal etc. To be honest, I think we should give Drake a prosthetic arm like Barret from FFVII. What about X-Men, all sorts of abilities and imagination stretches - let's bring Gozer in and the Stay Puft marshmallow man. Every story and world is crafted uniquely and has to have its own set of rules. It's this nature, that makes a world tangible and believable. And when you see something out of place, then it pulls you out of the world and story. Forget anything else for the time being. There is no precedent for this massive hulk of a person, and it's as lazy as an 80's action film where the next guy in the way is bigger and badder than the one before. What people can't get their head round is that the reaction would be the same if there was some guy bare knuckling Joel who was the size of Ryu from SF V. This is a future where resources are scarce. Let me put this to you, looking at that centre and setup are you expecting Abbys army to have access to state of the art military weaponry as well? Can we see her and her friends running round with RPG's and fully modified M4's? Or is the military more concerned with having an LA Fitness than actual useful items?
Argument 2: Abby killing Joel. The first game was well received. It was a middling story and had average gameplay. What elevated it was the way the storytelling was told, just like RDR2 elevated storytelling this generation despite its gameplay flaws and mechanic decisions. This isn't like having an ensemble cast where characters are disposable, certainly not in the way it's being thrown in users faces as well. It's pure arrogance based on assumptions. All in all this is going to be subjective to each person, but one one side you will believe it doesn;t matter that Joel is killed. On the other you'll have people who believe he is the heart of the franchise. I think ND are relying on a lot of goodwill and handwaving to expect you to just pick up and play as Abby. It's kind of like we know we're going to pull this off so we're going to do it anyway, and later, you will thank us for it. A main character who was such as asshole but who we all had such affection for it spawned this as an homage. It was only later that the entire narrative was twisted to
reflect joel was a villain, by some fanfic frustrated no-talent forum/reddit dwellers that want to be seen as 'deep', or by gaming journalists who wanted to illustrate how they were able to pick away such hidden and subtle layers of what amounted to an 'ambiguous ending'.
Further you hear the fans excitment to be carrying on the same story with Ellie in the panel. They completely missed the feeling when you hear the second clip.
Argument 3: Druckmann's personal beliefs. Whether we like it or not, writers beliefs will manifest themselves in the works they produce. Druckmann has specifically answered this himself.
The problem we have (and it's not just Druckmann) is that we've entered a phase where people don't just want acknoweldgment, they want fucking adulation. And if you dare question it, then you get labelled all sorts of shit. Are we meant to believe that all the fans of TLOU suddenly turned homophobic after playing a game where there was not a peep about Bill, where the DLC confirmed Allie was a lesbian, and the game has one of the best acclaimed user scores? The problem arises when you write to those beliefs and it intrudes on the work. The messages transcend the work because they are not subtle. There are plenty of games where nods to homosexuality etc. are subtle and just exist and guess what. No one cares. Well, a small minority will always care, because they're assholes but generally it's just not important. Druckmann's agenda is pretty much 'be accepting'. But most people actually are and when you use a platform like this to get acclaim, it's no longer about the cause but about the individual being recognised they are 'for the cause' and even worse when it shatters creative works that are already built.
Argument 4: The discussion around SJW/Abby etc. This is where all arguments trickle down to. There is no nuance to be had about the topics above, just you don't like the direction TLOU2 is going so yuo must be anti SJW. You're stannign for the size of Abbie so you must be an SJW. Its fucking tragic for people who actualyl want to discuss the direction ND is going with this game and the holes it's poking in the original game and characters.
The shit: Ellie dying/Abby being transgender isn't even worth discussing. We're not going to know the truth until the game releases or more leaks come out. I think it's a stretch to see either of those things happening in this game.
All in all this thread is a fucking disaster, but its not just here. Everywhere is the same. People pretending to be stupid to find the most cyclical argument to go round in circles on.
