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[Explosive Zombie]

So?

Are you trying to tell us despite not playing the first you're going to play the second? Despite the importance of the story to the franchise? It's fine if that's what you're saying, I just want some clarity here.

 

[Jayjayhd34]

So?

It unequivocally proofs your lying sack shit..

 

[Jon Neu]

I see people saying how do you know abby is trans and how is this character gay how do you know this game has a feminist agenda or what ever well lets look at exhibit A



All of the people on the couch sitting either next to or 2 or more seats over is either trans,gay or a feminist point blank. The women with the red shirt with the shave head doesnt even play video games but she liked TLOU1 because ellie is gay no im not making it up. They modeled abby and that other small child with him/her based on a trans person. There is not conspiracy theory or some phobe,ist or ism agenda this stuff is out in the open in front of everyone.

better yet heres the full 1 hour speech mr neil said

Really shitty from Cuckmann to literally put other videogame characters on the stage to shame them.

Could you imagine if any other dev made a conference and started to trash the design choices of ND?

But for this people, everything that matters is their message. If they have to be disrespectful assholes, they don’t care. Literally too full of their own shit.

Are you trying to tell us despite not playing the first you're going to play the second? Despite the importance of the story to the franchise? It's fine if that's what you're saying, I just want some clarity here.

I played Uncharted 4 first, if that answers your question.

Past gen I was an Xbox 360 guy. I had the PS3 for sometime, but I just didn’t play it too much.

I bought the remastered version of TLOU for my Pro and I played maybe like 15 minutes and I didn’t liked the outdated graphics, the slow pace and the gameplay. I didn’t had much time so I wanted a quick diversion, so I didn’t had the patience to get used to the game.

I know that’s on me, happened the same with God Of War or RDR2, I’ve played them quick first and got bored fast, so I abandoned them literally for months.

But now with the confinment I have much more time in my hands and I have absolutely loved RDR2 and God Of War now that I completed them.

So yeah, I’m planning to buy the remaster of TLOU and give it another try before the second part comes out.

Thank you for asking.

 

[Jayjayhd34]

Really shitty from Cuckmann to literally put other videogame characters on the stage to shame them.

Could you imagine if any other dev made a conference and started to trash the design choices of ND?

But for this people, everything that matters is their message. If they have to be disrespectful assholes, they don’t care. Literally too full of their own shit.




I played Uncharted 4 first, if that answers your question.

Past gen I was an Xbox 360 guy. I had the PS3 for sometime, but I just didn’t play it too much.

I bought the remastered version of TLOU for my Pro and I played maybe like 15 minutes and I didn’t like the outdated graphics, the slow pace and the gameplay. I didn’t has much time so I wanted a quick diversion, so I didn’t had the patience to get used to the game.

I know that’s on me, happened the same with God Of War or RDR2, I’ve played them quick first and got bored fast, so I abandoned them literally for months.

But now with the confinment I have much more time in my hands and I have absolutely loved RDR2 and God Of War now that I completed them.

So yeah, I’m planning to buy the remaster of TLOU and give it another try before the second part comes out.

Thank you for asking.

You don't have ps4 Pro lol or a ps4

 

[Jon Neu]

It unequivocally proofs your lying sack shit..

Lying of what?

You don't have ps4 Pro lol or a ps4

I’m certainly rubbing some people the wrong way

You got me, I don’t have any consoles, I just watch gameplays on youtube

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Really shitty from Cuckmann to literally put other videogame characters on the stage to shame them.

Could you imagine if any other dev made a conference and started to trash the design choices of ND?

But for this people, everything that matters is their message. If they have to be disrespectful assholes, they don’t care. Literally too full of their own shit.




I played Uncharted 4 first, if that answers your question.

Past gen I was an Xbox 360 guy. I had the PS3 for sometime, but I just didn’t play it too much.

I bought the remastered version of TLOU for my Pro and I played maybe like 15 minutes and I didn’t like the outdated graphics, the slow pace and the gameplay. I didn’t has much time so I wanted a quick diversion, so I didn’t had the patience to get used to the game.

I know that’s on me, happened the same with God Of War or RDR2, I’ve played them quick first and got bored fast, so I abandoned them literally for months.

But now with the confinment I have much more time in my hands and I have absolutely loved RDR2 and God Of War now that I completed them.

So yeah, I’m planning to buy the remaster of TLOU and give it another try before the second part comes out.

Thank you for asking.

??? anyways, hope you're able to enjoy the game, it's among my favorites.

 

[Jayjayhd34]

Lying of what?

You said enjoyed first game...... Then went on say didn't found the graphics outed and didn't like it now your saying your going back to it when challenge since you've been caught out I don't believe you own a PlayStation 4at all..

 

[Jon Neu]

You said enjoyed first game.....

When did I said that? I have literally said in this thread days ago that I had only played like 15 minutes of the first one.

This is getting bizarre

 

[Clear]

Seems relatively plausible and it does fit with the material in the leaks.

Mainly because the construction makes dramatic sense insofar as it has traditional character arcs.

For instance, Abby as a character has to die because that's the natural end of her character arc. Similarly Ellie absolutely has to live, but lose everything she holds dear as the price of her vengeance.

This has to happen because that's how vengeance stories work. The only exceptions are extremely right-leaning narratives like say Death Wish, and I really don't see Druckmann and co going that way

As I wrote earlier, ND's stuff, while technically very accomplished, is also kinda predictable. They will follow the prevailing wisdom about how "good screenwriting" requires character-arcs, which unfortunately kinda sets them onto predictable trajectories if you think of them in that way.

That being said, I really do not know how they are going to maintain involvement over the duration. They are really going to struggle to keep it from becoming a nihilistic dirge that alienates and distances the player from the characters.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Seems relatively plausible and it does fit with the material in the leaks.

Mainly because the construction makes dramatic sense insofar as it has traditional character arcs.

For instance, Abby as a character has to die because that's the natural end of her character arc. Similarly Ellie absolutely has to live, but lose everything she holds dear as the price of her vengeance.

This has to happen because that's how vengeance stories work. The only exceptions are extremely right-leaning narratives like say Death Wish, and I really don't see Druckmann and co going that way

As I wrote earlier, ND's stuff, while technically very accomplished, is also kinda predictable. They will follow the prevailing wisdom about how "good screenwriting" requires character-arcs, which unfortunately kinda sets them onto predictable trajectories if you think of them in that way.

That being said, I really do not know how they are going to maintain involvement over the duration. They are really going to struggle to keep it from becoming a nihilistic dirge that alienates and distances the player from the characters.

Wait, Charles Bronson doesn't lose everything in Death Wish? We must have been watching different movies.

 

[Clear]

Wait, Charles Bronson doesn't lose everything in Death Wish? We must have been watching different movies.

In the first movie sort of, but go watch Death Wish 2 and onwards, or something like "The Exterminator" or any good 70's/80's revenge exploitationer where we're supposed to feel a cathartic release at the baddies getting smashed by the protagonist's street justice.

Right wing: Vengeance feels good. Left Wing: Vengeance is futile.

Which way do you think this is going to go?

 

[DavJay]

Abby got a boyfriend? Some lad he must be.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

In the first movie sort of, but go watch Death Wish 2 and onwards, or something like "The Exterminator" or any good 70's/80's revenge exploitationer where we're supposed to feel a cathartic release at the baddies getting smashed by the protagonist's street justice.

Right wing: Vengeance feels good. Left Wing: Vengeance is futile.

Which way do you think this is going to go?

His daughter dies in the second Death Wish, tho.

 

[Falcs]

I'm pretty sure this has been posed here already, but in case anyone's missed it...
It's so damn funny.

https://kiwifarms.net/data/video/1267/1267804-1a2251be740cdf244b9d2bd05eb29d8b.mp4

 

[Trogdor1123]

Just read the spoilers and unless I'm missing something, what are people so upset about?

 

[ExpandKong]

Last of Us 3 is going to be Ellie hunting Abby down only to find her confined to a bed and slowly dying after years of steroid abuse destroyed her kidneys. But before she can pull the plug some random girl who was I dunno a child of one of the many random Seraphites you kill in TLoU2 busts in and beats them both to death with a cricket bat. Send me a check Neil.

 

[darkangel-212559]

Just read the spoilers and unless I'm missing something, what are people so upset about?

I think the part of Joel having his head caved in by a golf club miiiighttt be pissing people off... Don't you?

 

[Trogdor1123]

I think the part of Joel having his head caved in by a golf club miiiighttt be pissing people off... Don't you?

I guess but that was kind of expected wasn't it? He was getting older in a world that probably isn't all that conducive to the survival of old people. He also has a massive history of being involved with violent situations. I have only read the spoilers so perhaps it is in the details, the way it is done?

 

[darkangel-212559]

I guess but that was kind of expected wasn't it? He was getting older in a world that probably isn't all that conducive to the survival of old people. He also has a massive history of being involved with violent situations. I have only read the spoilers so perhaps it is in the details, the way it is done?

There's killing off Joel done in way that doesn't shit all over the entire fan base and the character, IE done in a more respectful manner, and then there is having a teenager kill him in the most disrespectful, shocking way possible.

I don't think people are pissed that he gets killed, but how he gets killed and by who is the issue.

Which I agree with, it's just ridiculous and disgusting and really could have been done in a far better way.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

There's killing off Joel done in way that doesn't shit all over the entire fan base and the character, IE done in a more respectful manner, and then there is having a teenager kill him in the most disrespectful, shocking way possible.

I don't think people are pissed that he gets killed, but how he gets killed and by who is the issue.

Which I agree with, it's just ridiculous and disgusting and really could have been done in a far better way.

I mean, she didn't cut his dick off and shove it in his mouth, nail him to a cross, open his stomach and let all his insides fall out, did she?

 

[Mochilador]

This is perfection.

 

[Grinchy]

I mean, she didn't cut his dick off and shove it in his mouth, nail him to a cross, open his stomach and let all his insides fall out, did she?

That would have been pretty sweet, though.

Hell, maybe even when she goes to cut his dick off, it is revealed that he had a vagina all along and we never knew it!

 

[DeadOblivion78]

There's killing off Joel done in way that doesn't shit all over the entire fan base and the character, IE done in a more respectful manner, and then there is having a teenager kill him in the most disrespectful, shocking way possible.

I don't think people are pissed that he gets killed, but how he gets killed and by who is the issue.

Which I agree with, it's just ridiculous and disgusting and really could have been done in a far better way.

Well to me, how Joel dies in this game makes sense to me personally. Its a brutal way to end someone but you never get to choose how you go out in the end. It seems to me that people are pissed that he didn’t go out with a hero’s ending but here I am thinking, did he deserve one? It also gives us proof that no character has plot armor.

 

[Nymphae]

I'm actually really glad that I saw those spoilers, because there was a small chance that I was going to cave and buy the game when it came out, but now that I know what they did with it I don't feel like supporting it.

 

[Shadowplay1979]

Having played this game back in 2017, its fun watching people speculate =D

 

[Trogdor1123]

There's killing off Joel done in way that doesn't shit all over the entire fan base and the character, IE done in a more respectful manner, and then there is having a teenager kill him in the most disrespectful, shocking way possible.

I don't think people are pissed that he gets killed, but how he gets killed and by who is the issue.

Which I agree with, it's just ridiculous and disgusting and really could have been done in a far better way.

I think I am missing a bunch of what happened then... A teenager? Guess I've been in the dark too much.

 

[lachesis]

Well, I am not too sure about what to think now. It was one of the most anticipated game, but knowing my favorite character would die off like a dog in early phase to set up the cycle of violence... and the story, doesn't seem to have even have any sort of conclusive ending like the original. First game had pretty open ending, but Joel's conflict has been solved, and left me wanting more, but in satisfactory way. I'm not too sure what to think of this story though. And without any relatable character for me (single dad with daughter) - there's going to be no "us" in this game for me at least... more like The Last of They, as me as player would want to be as detached as possible unlike the original. Even if it's a brief control over Abby - I wouldn't want to play as her. It's not as much as how Joel died (A character whose conflict is pretty much resolved, has nothing much to offer in traditional storytelling, than to become a launch point for the next dramatic escalation) - I accept that. But I don't want to part take in playing in the act of fighting against Ellie with a character who willingly killed Joel.

Maybe I will play the game someday, after all this dust settles down (and probably on sale or whatnot) - I thought of going all in on day 1 for sure, but at this moment - this could wait.

 

[PanzerAzel]

Been thinking a bit on these leaks. What bothers me the most hearing about the direction of this story isn't so much the story itself, it's the utter lack of capitalization upon a situation from the end of the original that easily could've been harnessed to massive dramatic effect in its sequel. This is what they left us with at the ending of TLoU:

-Ellie is a good friend of Marlene, who knew Ellie's mother and has raised, treated, and protected her as a daughter
-Joel meets Ellie and they eventually bond like a father and daughter, something the player actively partakes in and watches develop, coming to care for both
-Joel kills Marlene, someone Ellie cares for immensely and has more of a history than she does with Joel
-Joel lies to Ellie about the truth of her fate for selfish reasons

If TLoU 2 is supposed to be a story about hate and vengeance as is stated.....well I can honestly think of no better narrative set-up to use with already established and beloved characters that holds a potential dynamic existing between them more conducive to that narrative theme than that which would hold far more impact on the player as they know these characters.

Yet what do they do? Instead of Ellie being torn by her feelings between Marlene and Joel when the revelation of a lie would tear open a painful wound, they resort to the fate of some random nobody NPC doctor who was nothing but cannon fodder in the original, completely undeveloped, with no attachments to any known character, and base a story of revenge around that instead. Why? Why ignore this dynamic that an entire game built up and that is literally separated by a single door? The relationship between, Joel, Ellie, Marlene, the lie......all not a part of the equation in granting impetus to the reason of what's driving TLoU 2's story. Instead, we get some daughter we care nothing for mourning and seeking revenge for a doctor we care nothing for, and in fact took pleasure in slaughtering like a pig to save the one for whom we did.

What were they thinking in disregarding all of this? If these leaks are in fact true, this is going to turn out to be one of the greatest narrative missed opportunities in gaming history.

 

[Torrent of Pork]

I'm really curious what the Asylum's take will be when the game launches. Will they like playing as Joel's murderer, probably. Will they like playing as the attempted murderer of a lesbian? Will they like that this antagonist might be trans?

The basic consensus over their is, "I haven't seen any of the spoilers, but the Gators' reaction is getting me super excited!" I can't wait for the Reeing.

 

[DForce]

Just read the spoilers and unless I'm missing something, what are people so upset about?

Abby being trans (It's false)
Homophobic christian cult story line (This was confirmed false)
Joel dying by the hands of Abby
You play as Abby half way through the game
Kill Ellie as Abby (she doesn't die at the scene where people are leaking footage)
Cliffhanger ending.

There's many different fake plot leaks out there, so you don't don't really know what people believe.

If the leakers only saw footage of the game, then I believe they don't know how the game really ends. The plot summary just seems like it was created based on the footage they saw, and if the devs are saying don't believe in the rumors out there, that just leads me to believe that the plot summaries are very inaccurate.

 

[Halo is Back]

Abby being trans (It's false)
Homophobic christian cult story line (This was confirmed false)
Joel dying by the hands of Abby
You play as Abby half way through the game
Kill Ellie as Abby (she doesn't die at the scene where people are leaking footage)
Cliffhanger ending.

There's many different fake plot leaks out there, so you don't don't really know what people believe.

If the leakers only saw footage of the game, then I believe they don't know how the game really ends. The plot summary just seems like it was created based on the footage they saw, and if the devs are saying don't believe in the rumors out there, that just leads me to believe that the plot summaries are very inaccurate.

From my knowledge ND has not said anything about what is true and false. Do you have a link for this?

 

[Halo is Back]

That involves hot women and sexy clothes.

Neither of those things exist in the game because according to SWJ like Neil, they are sexist and done only to please the male audience, aka the “male gaze“. It’s very much against his principles to pander to white males.

So it’s literally the contrary of what you say.

But what about lesbians? Don't they like hot women too? Guess Neil didn't think about that

 

[DForce]

From my knowledge ND has not said anything about what is true and false. Do you have a link for this?

They haven't. They just made a statement about fake rumors going out there. You just have to look at the leaks and the videos to see how the leaks are mostly fake.

The cult storyline was based off of a 4chan rumor.

There's many fake details about the game, but what jumps out is that the woman is not Ellie's mom, it's Abby.

 

[Halo is Back]

They haven't. They just made a statement about fake rumors going out there. You just have to look at the leaks and the videos to see how the leaks are mostly fake.

The cult storyline was based off of a 4chan rumor.

There's many fake details about the game, but what jumps out is that the woman is not Ellie's mom, it's Abby.

I have seen an image of the entire level list of the game and the scene where Joel dies and Ellie VS. Abby. Im almost 100% certain Ellie lives in the end and Abby being a trans is very likely BS. However most of the leaks seem pretty true.

 

[DForce]

I have seen an image of the entire level list of the game and the scene where Joel dies and Ellie VS. Abby. Im almost 100% certain Ellie lives in the end and Abby being a trans is very likely BS. However most of the leaks seem pretty true.

Here is one of the most accurate leaks.

It looks like they just made up a summary based on the leaked footage.

But i'll talk about the end of the game after Abby beats up Ellie and Dina.

The leaked footage we saw at the end of the game was a cut-scene between Ellie and Dina, and a short clip of Abby saying they're looking for the remaining fireflies. I also don't believe the scene with Abby and Lev starts in the epilogue.

 

[Halo is Back]

Here is one of the most accurate leaks.

It looks like they just made up a summary based on the leaked footage.

But i'll talk about the end of the game after Abby beats up Ellie and Dina.

The leaked footage we saw at the end of the game was a cut-scene between Ellie and Dina, and a short clip of Abby saying they're looking for the remaining fireflies. I also don't believe the scene with Abby and Lev starts in the epilogue.

Yes this goes in line with the level list I saw. Honestly my biggest gripe is trying to Kill Ellie by playing Abby. I loved Ellie a lot more than Joel and I was really excited to play as her in the game before the leaks. As a player I dont want to do that and it makes no sense from a writing perspective of trying to make us sympathize with Abby while also making Ellie the "villain" at the end for going to get revenge but that's exactly what Abby did and literally made Ellie watch as she beat Joel's head in. Fuck, I never liked Joel for what he did in the first game at the end but at least he did it to save a little girl, whereas Abby and her gang enjoys seeing Ellie suffer. This shit makes no sense, it all reminds me of fucking Halo 5 and look how that turned out for 343....

 

[AveragePhoenix]

Okay, somehow I like this video by MBG
I think the world may be ending

 

[Strategize]

Yes this goes in line with the level list I saw. Honestly my biggest gripe is trying to Kill Ellie by playing Abby. I loved Ellie a lot more than Joel and I was really excited to play as her in the game before the leaks. As a player I dont want to do that and it makes no sense from a writing perspective of trying to make us sympathize with Abby while also making Ellie the "villain" at the end for going to get revenge but that's exactly what Abby did and literally made Ellie watch as she beat Joel's head in. Fuck, I never liked Joel for what he did in the first game at the end but at least he did it to save a little girl, whereas Abby and her gang enjoys seeing Ellie suffer. This shit makes no sense, it all reminds me of fucking Halo 5 and look how that turned out for 343....

There no heroes and villains, just perspective. Abby has no idea what Joel was thinking when he killed her father, he's just a monster.

The fundamental problem you seem to have here is that because you're playing as Abby, you think the writers think she's right and Ellie is wrong, not how it works. You can be forced to do something you don't agree with just because it makes sense within the context of that character, it's risky and experimental, but they're getting a reaction.

 

[Halo is Back]

See the problem here is not just that people are homophobic, sexist assholes. It's instead of simply stopping there, admitting it and moving on, no it's then when conspiracies theories about employees not getting paid etc etc come in.

Ok so the biggest problem with the game is how Abby is written and how she is put into the story. If you say the sequel is an honest continuation of the first game lets first analyze that. Joel dies because he tried to save Ellie and lied to her saying that they were not looking for a cure anymore. Maybe this will be brought before he dies but judging from Ellie's reaction of getting revenge no matter what even at the cost of leaving her lover and family Im willing to bet him lying to her is never brought up. So how dose a shallow revenge story for Joel continue on the story centered around their relationship?

Second, Abby is given control to the player and forced into a flash back to make us understand her actions and sympathize with her. There is even a mission entitled "saving the kids" to try to make us feel like there is a "good side to her" yet we see her and her group force Ellie to watch her father figure be beaten to death and spat on. Very noble of them.

Third, Abby only spares Ellie and Dina because Lev told her Dina was pregnant.

Fourth, we as the players are supposed to think Ellie is turning into the villain for getting revenge on Joel, when this is exactly what Abby just did in a very sadistic way. It's completely understandable she would want revenge for killing Joel the way they did by making her watch and suffer.

Basically, we are supposed to sympathize more with Abby and entirely question Joel's and Ellie's actions to a character that is mostly introduced only half way through the second game. This is the equivalent of trying to fit a square into a circular hole. We already have an entire game focused on their relationship and bonding with those character but this game is trying to flip the switch on them half-way through the second game.


Ever see red letter media's of Revenge of the Sith review? There is a scene in the beginning where Annakin is concerned with one lone Storm Trooper in an attempt to make us feel like there is still good in him after killing women and children in the second movie. Mike famously says "Im sorry you can't just back track the events from the last film". This is basically the equivalent of that on a bigger scale .

 

[Halo is Back]

There no heroes and villains, just perspective. Abby has no idea what Joel was thinking when he killed her father, he's just a monster.

The fundamental problem you seem to have here is that because you're playing as Abby, you think the writers think she's right and Ellie is wrong, not how it works. You can be forced to do something you don't agree with just because it makes sense within the context of that character, it's risky and experimental, but they're getting a reaction.

Thats BS and you know it. What about this new cult they are introducing in the game? The first gameplay they showed them fucking hanging people and cutting out their insides WHILE being hung. Do you remember those cannibals from the first game? Where is the perspective there? They were not starving you saw the massive pile of clothes. Or how about the scene where they torture Joel. Survival was a big theme in the first game, but now its about the cycle of revenge. Revenge is a fool's game.

 

[Strategize]

Ok so the biggest problem with the game is how Abby is written and how she is put into the story. If you say the sequel is an honest continuation of the first game lets first analyze that. Joel dies because he tried to save Ellie and lied to her saying that they were not looking for a cure anymore. Maybe this will be brought before he dies but judging from Ellie's reaction of getting revenge no matter what even at the cost of leaving her lover and family Im willing to bet him lying to her is never brought up. So how dose a shallow revenge story for Joel continue on the story centered around their relationship?

I've literally seen a cut-scene where it's mentioned.

Second, Abby is given control to the player and forced into a flash back to make us understand her actions and sympathize with her. There is even a mission entitled "saving the kids" to try to make us feel like there is a "good side to her" yet we see her and her group force Ellie to watch her father figure be beaten to death and spat on. Very noble of them.

Third, Abby only spares Ellie and Dina because Lev told her Dina was pregnant.

Fourth, we as the players are supposed to think Ellie is turning into the villain for getting revenge on Joel, when this is exactly what Abby just did in a very sadistic way. It's completely understandable she would want revenge for killing Joel the way they did by making her watch and suffer.

Basically, we are supposed to sympathize more with Abby and entirely question Joel's and Ellie's actions to a character that is mostly introduced only half way through the second game. This is the equivalent of trying to fit a square into a circular hole. We already have an entire game focused on their relationship and bonding with those character but this game is trying to flip the switch on them half-way through the second game.

Ever see red letter media's of Revenge of the Sith review? There is a scene in the beginning where Annakin is concerned with one lone Storm Trooper in an attempt to make us feel like there is still good in him after killing women and children in the second movie. Mike famously says "Im sorry you can't just back track the events from the last film". This is basically the equivalent of that on a bigger scale .

Okay, I think I understand where you're coming from here.

You're looking at things from a "I don't like the way I think (haven't played the full game) the writers are trying to make me feel".

Whereas I'm mostly looking at it from "Does this make sense in the context of the in-game universe." And I believe so, but I haven't played the game yet either so who knows.

The thing is, just because we're asked to understand Abby doesn't mean we have to sympathize. A character can do both good and bad things depending on the context of situation, that's how people work. Just like how people arguing about Joel being best dad ever to evil monster and everything in-between.

Star Wars is absolute worst example you possibly use here, Anakin killed those people because of how he felt about his mother in that particular situation, that does not automatically mean that Anakin is gonna do that on a regular basis from now on in random situations, unless prompted by similar fear or pain. Also there's the fact Star Wars literally has a binary light side and dark side, nothing like TLOU.

Thats BS and you know it. What about this new cult they are introducing in the game? The first gameplay they showed them fucking hanging people and cutting out their insides WHILE being hung. Do you remember those cannibals from the first game? Where is the perspective there? They were not starving you saw the massive pile of clothes. Or how about the scene where they torture Joel. Survival was a big theme in the first game, but now its about the cycle of revenge. Revenge is a fool's game.

I don't know there motive yet so how the hell would I know, I doubt they think doing it because it looks cool though.

 

[Paracelsus]

Ok so the biggest problem with the game is how Abby is written and how she is put into the story. If you say the sequel is an honest continuation of the first game lets first analyze that. Joel dies because he tried to save Ellie and lied to her saying that they were not looking for a cure anymore. Maybe this will be brought before he dies but judging from Ellie's reaction of getting revenge no matter what even at the cost of leaving her lover and family Im willing to bet him lying to her is never brought up. So how dose a shallow revenge story for Joel continue on the story centered around their relationship?

Second, Abby is given control to the player and forced into a flash back to make us understand her actions and sympathize with her. There is even a mission entitled "saving the kids" to try to make us feel like there is a "good side to her" yet we see her and her group force Ellie to watch her father figure be beaten to death and spat on. Very noble of them.

Third, Abby only spares Ellie and Dina because Lev told her Dina was pregnant.

Ever see red letter media's of Revenge of the Sith review? There is a scene in the beginning where Annakin is concerned with one lone Storm Trooper in an attempt to make us feel like there is still good in him after killing women and children in the second movie. Mike famously says "Im sorry you can't just back track the events from the last film". This is basically the equivalent of that on a bigger scale .

Just saying, but the bolded is false. Ellie, with what's left of her face, tells her she's pregnant, and Abby goes

Spoiler: Just subtitles, no screen

So she doesn't even have that going for her. Not that this will stop people in denial from defending her and s****ing on Joel just like they do every time this happens.

 

[Fenris Wolf]

This must've probably been asked 10k times now, But is there anywhere to Download or watch the entire leaked stuff? (without the meme sfx)

 

[GymWolf]

So just to be clear, i'm the only one here happy to use muscular abby and kill ellie the annoying bitch as a final boss?

 

[Clear]

Ok so the biggest problem with the game is how Abby is written and how she is put into the story.

You're making a huge assumption based on a very small amount of evidence/footage. Based on available information you simply cannot conclude that because its way premature.

Second, Abby is given control to the player and forced into a flash back to make us understand her actions and sympathize with her. There is even a mission entitled "saving the kids" to try to make us feel like there is a "good side to her" yet we see her and her group force Ellie to watch her father figure be beaten to death and spat on. Very noble of them.

We get to see Joel's execution from both her and Ellie's perspectives, what initially seems overtly villainous from Ellie's perspective seems far less so in Abby's version where its made very clear that Abby is only interested in taking revenge for Joel's murder of her father and actively demands the rest of the group (against their judgement) let Ellie go unharmed. That act of mercy -which flies in the face of how Joel dealt with the Fireflies/Marlene at the end of the first game- will turn out to have catastrophic consequences as Ellie sets out on her path of vengeance.

Third, Abby only spares Ellie and Dina because Lev told her Dina was pregnant. .

Presumably by this point Ellie has killed all of Abby's WLF comrades including her boyfriend, Lev's intervention is a desperate attempt to halt the cycle of violence... but as the footage shows, by this point events are running under their own momentum.

Fourth, we as the players are supposed to think Ellie is turning into the villain for getting revenge on Joel, when this is exactly what Abby just did in a very sadistic way. It's completely understandable she would want revenge for killing Joel the way they did by making her watch and suffer.

The point is that Abby and Ellie are more similar than they are different, and their mortal conflict is pretty much happenstance. Its a matter if conflicting goals where neither is definitively "good" or "bad". And no, Ellie bearing witness to Abby's execution of her father's murder is not planned and not sadistic, they have no idea of who she is and her relationship to Joel (in much the same way Joel executed the surgeon without thinking if he was a father looking out to do the best for his daughter) and her presence is accidental. The whole thing was intended to be covert.

Basically, we are supposed to sympathize more with Abby and entirely question Joel's and Ellie's actions to a character that is mostly introduced only half way through the second game. This is the equivalent of trying to fit a square into a circular hole. We already have an entire game focused on their relationship and bonding with those character but this game is trying to flip the switch on them half-way through the second game.

If you've played either of Yoko Taro's Nier games, and particularly the first, you'll recognize the moral quagmire that well-meaning peopl can find themselves in when they set out on a path of righteous retribution. "Steeling one's heart" in preparation for the battles to come is the same as dehumanizing the enemy, its just an embodiment about Nietzsche admonition about fighting monsters.

 

[synce]

So just to be clear, i'm the only one here happy to use muscular abby and kill ellie the annoying bitch as a final boss?

I was a huge fan of Ellie but she basically died after the original game. The one in 2 lacks any of the charm the character once had, so whether or not she dies doesn't make a difference to me. Joel is the big loss here.

 

[DForce]

Yes this goes in line with the level list I saw. Honestly my biggest gripe is trying to Kill Ellie by playing Abby. I loved Ellie a lot more than Joel and I was really excited to play as her in the game before the leaks. As a player I dont want to do that and it makes no sense from a writing perspective of trying to make us sympathize with Abby while also making Ellie the "villain" at the end for going to get revenge but that's exactly what Abby did and literally made Ellie watch as she beat Joel's head in. Fuck, I never liked Joel for what he did in the first game at the end but at least he did it to save a little girl, whereas Abby and her gang enjoys seeing Ellie suffer. This shit makes no sense, it all reminds me of fucking Halo 5 and look how that turned out for 343....

This plot point is based on a fake leak.

We can speculate on what's going to happen, but I'm sure the leakers didn't actually play the game. The summary lacks detail outside of the leak footage that we were only able to see.

Ellie putting on Joel's jacket to go after Ellie doesn't fit the narrative that they want to make her the villain. It kinda symbolizes that her and Ellie are going to defeat Abby in the final battle. What if we play as Abby after beating the game? That would change a lot of things. Think it's best for everyone to wait until we get details from people who actually played the game.

 

[Halo is Back]

This plot point is based on a fake leak.

We can speculate on what's going to happen, but I'm sure the leakers didn't actually play the game. The summary lacks detail outside of the leak footage that we were only able to see.

Ellie putting on Joel's jacket to go after Ellie doesn't fit the narrative that they want to make her the villain. It kinda symbolizes that her and Ellie are going to defeat Abby in the final battle. What if we play as Abby after beating the game? That would change a lot of things. Think it's best for everyone to wait until we get details from people who actually played the game.

I saw the footage. Second to last mission is Ellie Vs. Abby Im almost 100% sure of this

 

[Halo is Back]

I won't be engaging any more discussion about story. I have finals to finish this week, so those are my opinions take it for what you will. With that said, I hope you guys like the game.

 

[Silent Duck]

Right wing: Vengeance feels good. Left Wing: Vengeance is futile.

Which way do you think this is going to go?