That's just depressing. I can't believe so many people still try to defend it.
Lol
The people defending it are armed.
American police killed more people in March than the UK has since 1900
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The people defending it are armed.
To the people going bu bu bu.. difference in culture and stuff, part of the point for the comparison is to highlight the difference in culture when it comes to police and policing...
... because this is fucking crazy.
hahahahahaha what an odd presumption to make
I answer most of this above. I also should rephrase my last paragraph. It is not that it can't be compared, just that the comparison is very inaccurate if we consider the major differences in U.S and those stated countries.
They are a bad thing, however, I don't see it going away anytime soon. Changing cop policies is easy, but changing an entire culture? That is talking decades of work.
JustinJ004
Banned
Off topic but I remember when I first heard that and thinking it's fucking nuts and it turns out I was right. There are 7 billion people alive today and estimates say over 100 billion have lived and died so we aren't there yet and won't be for a long time hopefully.
On topic those figures are insane whatever way you look at it but I suspect a lot more cops are killed there compared to here as well.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Exactly.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Are the differences in US culture that cause these discrepancies worth saving, in your opinion?
It's obviously awful, but I agree that the statistic is a little unhelpful - it's not so much the population size but the fact that the police are dealing with an "armed" populace is a very different situation to here in the UK.
Still, I say that more as a damnation of US gun culture than a defence of police brutality.
Also, reading through this thread I'm really struggling to pick out the parody posts, like this one:
Do you actually believe this? Or parody post?
I also enjoyed the guy saying we shouldn't compare the US to those Western European countries... because comparisons to other developed first world countries are so unfavourable to the US? Isn't that the point?
Still, I say that more as a damnation of US gun culture than a defence of police brutality.
Also, reading through this thread I'm really struggling to pick out the parody posts, like this one:
Do you actually believe this? Or parody post?
I also enjoyed the guy saying we shouldn't compare the US to those Western European countries... because comparisons to other developed first world countries are so unfavourable to the US? Isn't that the point?
Chittagong
Gold Member
This is really all that needs to be said.
It's incredible to see some of the US posters here insisting that the figure is ok because of the special characteristics of USA that make it entirely incomparable.
But whatever, it's your country, if that's how you prefer to roll, well freedom to you. I take the UK / EU system any day, myself.
We need to arm the children to defend themselves in school shootings!
Uh, actually, yes. Statistics work like that.
Explaining the statistic will require more work, but "Okay, let's multiply by 5" response to "But populations aren't the same" criticism is dead-on.
Which is pretty near the same ratio as police killings.. uhm.
Sounds like a systemic problem, and not only one on the police's side.
Start taking away those guns? May help.
If they're able to reach and pull the trigger, they're old enough to defend themselves.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
Well, yeah, all three of those countries have a large police force that feels justified in murdering their civilians.
PeakPointMatrix
Member
UK Population: 64 Million
US Population: 316 Million
Literally 5 times of a larger population in the US. There's a point to be made here about the gang mentality of the American police force, but the logic used for comparison here couldn't be anymore braindead or lopsided if it tried.
Also THIS.
US Population: 316 Million
Literally 5 times of a larger population in the US. There's a point to be made here about the gang mentality of the American police force, but the logic used for comparison here couldn't be anymore braindead or lopsided if it tried.
Also THIS.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Do people not properly comprehend the statistics they see everyday (Of course the answer in most cases is no). the time difference is 1380 times larger.
The 5 times larger population is statistical noise in comparison but you don't want to admit that the US has massive systematic problems with gun crimes and police shooting, Compare it to most western countries and you'd get similar results.
You can say oh the population is armed, but what positive advantage is that? It proves is that the second amendment is a stupid ass amendment that helped no one and harmed many.
Chittagong
Gold Member
It's kind of ironic how people from USA are the quickest to point out how people in North Korea have been brainwashed by their own government and media to believe their country is the best, and the system they have is superior and inevitable. Locals there would with straight face explain why their freedom is unique and how the system necessarily supports it.
It's not dissimilar to the delusion here, that somehow all these people needed to be killed by the government because USA is big, has freedom for guns, has gang problems etc. and that nothing can really be done about it.
Before anyone gets a shit fit - no, I am not comparing North Korean and US societies. I am comparing the lack of objectivity when it comes to seeing your own country critically. It seems to be an universal human trait.
It's not dissimilar to the delusion here, that somehow all these people needed to be killed by the government because USA is big, has freedom for guns, has gang problems etc. and that nothing can really be done about it.
Before anyone gets a shit fit - no, I am not comparing North Korean and US societies. I am comparing the lack of objectivity when it comes to seeing your own country critically. It seems to be an universal human trait.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
I really don't get the attitude towards police brutality in the US. I don't get how easily people think its justified.
Innocent until proven guilty is an imporantant foundation of a modern justice system.
Seperation of power is too.
Police is the executive. Courts are the judicary. Courts are determining the punishment, not the police.
Often times when police brutality occures people argue the victims had it comming, either because they commited crimes before or didn't cooporate. But this is bullshit. The police doesn't have the right to judge here.
Only if there is absolutely no other way the police is allowed to use force, only if there is immediate danger to their own or other peoples lives.
But because so many americans are okay with police using violence, they keep doing it.
In my opinion every action of police officers should be prosecuted as if they were normal people. You beat a suspect? Assault charge. You shoot a suspect? Homicide charge. No special treatment for police officers.
And then a court has to decide whether or not there were no other options and the violence was justified.
It is this way in many countries and this leads to a less violent police. The US should do something like that, too.
Ehh then the US should have 5 times more shootings not 1380 times more shootings... but you know MURICA math
GrizzleBoy
Banned
What are you talking about?
Mass shootings in schools, cinemas, malls etc, gun crime, accidental shootings (kids killing parents, parents killing kids, kids killing friends) and ridiculous amounts of police shootings vs other western countries are NOTHING compared to THOUGHT of not having a gun in my house.
If all that shit needs to happen so that I can uphold the second amendment, then it just needs to happen.
Tough shit. People die all over the world all the time, but not everyone has the freedom like I do to own guns.
Think about that.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
But unlike the germans you don't have the freedom to drive as fast as you want on highways.
What if a tyrannical government is chasing you and you're only allowed to go 80mph?
GrizzleBoy
Banned
Keep your socialist commie Marxist autobahn out of my damn country!
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Food for thought
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...aphics-and-politics-of-gun-owning-households/
Hmm.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...aphics-and-politics-of-gun-owning-households/
Hmm.
| Praxis |
Banned
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
ITT: I've learned to never compare populations unless their size is equivalent. So, I've decided to throw out any medical journal.
Statistics and rates, how do they work?
Statistics and rates, how do they work?
Broder Salsa
Banned
Now I don't agree with this right to have weapons thing, but I have seen people make reasonable cases and arguments for why. This however just reads as fucking satire. Think about that.
Pankratous
Member
This is by far the most disgusting thing I've ever read on GAF. Reads like a troll YouTube comment. You have to be kidding, surely.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
I'm certain that was satire guys.
Atraveller
Banned
Same, this is extremely screwed up.
The only part that seems satirical is the mention of the second amendment. These idiots routinely use it as an excuse to own their guns, yet they clearly don't know their history or rationale for why the amendment exist in the first place.
If a politician dared to challenge and reform current gun ownership they wouldn't be in office very long. They would be from a state that either doesn't have the sway on the floor of Congress; not not be reelected; or shot dead by some nut looking to play the martyr.
Minister of the Dog
Member
What a gross oversimplification. Spain has one of the most strict Criminal Codes in Europe, and a very high prison population.
http://www.teinteresa.es/espana/Espana-Europa-Occidental-presos-carceles_0_559746109.html
We could do with a more lenient Criminal Code in this country, and more help for those who have already repaid their debt with society.
It's pretty clearly mocking the second amendment.
Sad some of you are actively trying to obscure the facts present here and obviously the realities of your society which require immediate change.
As a young black male I've never even considered the possibility that I'll die by the hands of a police officer or get shot. Like, ever. By anyone.
It's a freedom I'm keen to exercise.
As a young black male I've never even considered the possibility that I'll die by the hands of a police officer or get shot. Like, ever. By anyone.
It's a freedom I'm keen to exercise.
People saying "buuut US is way larger" show no substantial math skills.
I mean, really?
Lets just be generous (while WILDLY wrong), and vastly overestimate the difference between the two countries. Say its a tenfold difference. Okay.
Now what? The result is still this: one month vs 115 year. Tenfold division? You are still arriving at comparing one month VS 15 year as equals. "But guns everywhere?" Okay, another tenfold. And the result is still a huge difference of kills between the two country.
Again: my methods are neither representative nor accurate, but it shows how you cant just waggle it away by saying "but the US is bigger". Yeah, but not THAT much bigger. It is not 3,400 million people vs 300,000 people. Not even close.
I mean, really?
Lets just be generous (while WILDLY wrong), and vastly overestimate the difference between the two countries. Say its a tenfold difference. Okay.
Now what? The result is still this: one month vs 115 year. Tenfold division? You are still arriving at comparing one month VS 15 year as equals. "But guns everywhere?" Okay, another tenfold. And the result is still a huge difference of kills between the two country.
Again: my methods are neither representative nor accurate, but it shows how you cant just waggle it away by saying "but the US is bigger". Yeah, but not THAT much bigger. It is not 3,400 million people vs 300,000 people. Not even close.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Not really a good argument considering we've changed the american "culture" many times in the past. Point in case, slavery, civil rights, women's suffrage, and soon gay rights.
| Praxis |
Banned
Regardless of all that, saying something isn't worth doing or attempting because it will take years of hard work isn't exactly the American spirit I have grown up to admire.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Is it really worth doing?! I mean the 2nd Amendment is needed so that we the lowly citizens can fight against tyranny and corruption. I mean just look at all our patriotic Americans fighting back against the corrupt police force!!...oh...
You don't understand, muthafuckin GAWD gave us the right to own guns. That mofo got off his throne and heaven and said "YOU PEOPLE SHALL HAVE GUNS AS YOUR RIGHT!!"
| Praxis |
Banned
If you're prepared to add casualties of war and occupation, I'm afraid the numbers would be too overwhelming.
You wanna throw army kills into the mix? Oh boy.
Ireland was officially a part of the UK, not just an occupation. A poor choice of words on my part.
Just calling the numbers that wiki lists disingenuous since the UK has let its armed forces carry out police actions on its own soil and those numbers are not included, whereas the US has let those be solely the actions of police. Not to excuse the horrendously high numbers in the US.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
Does that take is back to the Jurassic period in Yurop?
Link
The Autumn Wind
This right here is actually the problem. There's plenty wrong with the U.S. We're seriously backwards in many regards compared to any other first-world nation, but too many people wrap themselves in the flag and carry a cross while shouting "USA, USA!" to notice.
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