kurisu_1974
Member
That N64 blur will look better than ever 
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Analogue’s 4K Nintendo 64 launches next year for $249 (Pre-orders open October 21st)
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Ulysses 31
Member
Eh, I said usually. It depends on the programming of the FPGA and my assumption is there's less issues to contend with than windows software emulation.
The environment that's running the emulation should be taking into consideration, if it causes more latency then I'd say that particular emulation is less accurate. I was mainly comparing against emulators running in Windows.
They could make such a C program but it will be a lot less convenient to use.
I know they're being shifty with wording when they say no emulation but their products deliver(at least the stuff I've bought from them so far).
Ulysses 31
Member
You can turn it into a blocky mess when using V-deblur.That N64 blur will look better than ever
240p/480p upscaled to 1080p or 4K ain't gonna be pretty so it will come down to the filters that can be applied.
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nkarafo
Member
Their products are great but they don't need to shit on emulation in order to make them look better than they really are.
Let's not forget they used bsnes as a reference in order to fix bugs in Analog Super NT. Yes, bsnes/higan was more accurate than their core and it still is.
nkarafo
Member
Use Ares. It's the most accurate emulator right now but it's still not 100% compatible as it's still relatively new. It also uses Parallel RDP for graphics, which pretty much means the visuals at least will be perfect in all cases.
Mobilemofo
Member
I would hope so.The controller is still a better deal than a vertical stand
Otherwise, there's a fuckin problem.thanks for the tip brother
cinnamonandgravy
Member
i would agree that replicating the hardware would be the superior route for emulation accuracy.
i mean, some games exploit hardware bugs... having accurate hardware means these games wont break.
...but do they have a perfect 1:1 replica of the n64 hardware? really doubtful.
will it be more accurate that software emulation? probably. maybe.
imma get one to find out.
(though software emulation allows you to increase the internal res, which looks so much better than upscaling)
i mean, some games exploit hardware bugs... having accurate hardware means these games wont break.
...but do they have a perfect 1:1 replica of the n64 hardware? really doubtful.
will it be more accurate that software emulation? probably. maybe.
imma get one to find out.
(though software emulation allows you to increase the internal res, which looks so much better than upscaling)
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
NGL I don't know a lot about Apple's gaming library, like how expansive it is or what must-haves are exclusive to it. That's probably just tied to the stigma that Apple "hates" gaming or whatever, though I'm sure they pulled back focus once the Pippin failed.
Can't sue over tech patents over 20 years old. Unless Nintendo re-manufactured the N64 as it originally was for the consumer market, there isn't much they can do after 20 years.
I think they could've re-applied the patent but that would've meant they had to have a commercial product using the tech in the patent and, again, they're never re-manufacturing original N64s again.
Yeah but Polymega's isn't FPGA-based. To clarify: its N64 emulation isn't FPGA-based. It was going to be but, well, change of plans.
Polymega's a really nice system in its own right, though.
sainraja
Member
Ah, didn't know that. What's the advantage of being FPGA-based?
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Basically, that emulation is more accurate cycle-wise. So say N64 software emulation is 95% cycle-accurate in many game cases (that's just a random number on my part); if it's FPGA-based and assuming the core is quality, you're going to get something like 99.9% cycle accuracy for all games.
Because software emulation-wise, there are still some games which don't run very well for N64, last I checked, regardless how powerful your PC is. What I like about Analogue's stuff is they seem to be adding modern QOL features and enhancements to the hardware while still providing full compatibility. It's why I'd love a Saturn or PS1 system from them. Or a PS2 version, though costs are probably too prohibitive for it.
MiSTER is another FPGA-based project, but I think it's more a DIY-type.
fart town usa
Member
I hate how the N64 controller continues to be misunderstood.
OT. It's very tempting but I just need an everdrive cart for my purposes.
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Dr. Suchong
Member
Analogue makes some pretty amazing stuff, but it's usually out of stock (really want a Super Nt and Sega Sg)
I wish there was just some form of standard whereupon these machines were readily available constantly.
I wish there was just some form of standard whereupon these machines were readily available constantly.
Ulysses 31
Member
If it sells well they'll keep it available like the Pocket.
Btw it's almost pre-order time!
nkarafo
Member
This misinformation will never stop spreading.
Posting this once again:
https://archive.ph/2018.07.07-112551/https://byuu.org/articles/fpgas-arent-magic/
bsnes is just as accurate as Analogue NT or more (bsnes was used as a reference to improve NT). Please stop misinform people about this.
Yes, the analogue N64 device might be more accurate than current emulators right now (if their claims are true) but that has nothing to do with it being FPGA based.
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Ulysses 31
Member
But the real question is if you'll be ordering the Analogue 3D or not!?
nkarafo
Member
I would if it could run roms.But the real question is if you'll be ordering the Analogue 3D or not!?
Ulysses 31
Member
I assume it can via an Everdrive 64 but it would be disappointing if it couldn't.
nkarafo
Member
Well, i can use an everdrive 64 on my real N64 alreadyI assume it can via an Everdrive 64 but it would be disappointing if it couldn't.
First of all, ignore any claims that FPGAs are inherently more accurate. They are not and right now there are some software emulators that are more accurate than existing FPGAs or vice versa. Accuracy only has to do with the programming of each device or emulator. It's a programmer skill, experience and knowledge issue.
The only reason this accuracy rumor exist is because analogue started it in their marketing. The same company who used bsnes, a software emulator of all things, as a reference to fix their own bugs. Doesn't help that ignorant retro collector Youtubers who like "premium" expensive things also spread that rumor in the community.
More info by the bsnes developer himself (i will never stop posting this): https://archive.ph/2018.07.07-112551/https://byuu.org/articles/fpgas-arent-magic/
So, here are the real benefits of an FPGA device:
- Consumes much less power to reach the same level of accuracy as a software emulator equivalent.
- Easier (and probably cheaper) to reach target level of accuracy with more complex devices (such as the N64 in this case). In software such system would require a top of the line CPU or even one that doesn't currently exist yet.
- Because of the low power requirements, an FPGA is usually more compact and portable.
- Easier to reach lower input lag due to the lack of OS. Software emulators can be just as good in theory but it's harder to achieve.
- Easier to connect to an old CRT. It's a crap shoot with modern computers AFAIK.
So yeah, plenty of benefits but better accuracy is not one of them. They still usually end up being very accurate because although they are cheaper than a full gaming PC, they are still much more expensive than a crappy Retropie device or other cheap alternative that uses bad emulation. So high accuracy is one of the standards they need to reach. But again, and i can't stress this enough, just because there are plenty of crappy/hacky emulators it doesn't mean an FPGA is inherently more accurate. If you have a semi decent PC, you can have the same accuracy or even better. You can even have lower input lag than the original consoles even, let alone FPGAs.
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Ulysses 31
Member
So if it can via an everdrive 64 you'll buy it?Well, i can use an everdrive 64 on my real N64 already
Or you doing something special with the roms that everdrive prevents?
nkarafo
Member
I don't actually have an everdrive right now but if i did, i could use it on the real N64 is what i'm saying. That thing is also pretty expensive.So if it can via an everdrive 64 you'll buy it?
Or you doing something special with the roms that everdrive prevents?
There's zero reason for me to buy an analogue device tbh, because i already have the consoles i need and use emulators (accurate ones, always) as backup/preservation. The analogue is a weird middle ground in my eyes. Now the Mister FPGA sounds like a better deal for me since it uses ROMs without having to buy an everdrive and i could use it on my old CRT at the same time instead of my N64 but that one is more or less just as accurate as Ares or Simple64, so not exactly 100% at the moment. There are still timing issues and bugs, even though you can play and finish all games (which you already can in emulators anyway).
I have to admit, the 100% accuracy claim of the N64 core by analogue is very impressive. After 20+ years of N64 emulation being a thing, this will be the first time that happens. So i'm going to have to wait for the receipts to actually believe this. I expect it to have some of the same timing issues as the best N64 emulators right now but people won't notice them so nobody will care. But even if the claims are real, i don't have a use case for it, personally.
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Ulysses 31
Member
Immediately IIRC, I remember that I got a call from my CC company thinking they were scammers the day I placed the order for the Pocket.
dudemcgrude
Neo Member
They charge at checkout, shipping is a bit ridiculous... $27 for the "domestic economy 5-7 days", but im happy i was able to get my preorder in!
Ulysses 31
Member
Sucks the black controller is already sold out on amazon!
ihavezippers
Member
"Less than a minute" estimated wait time for 16 minutes in queue to checkout...eventually got to checkout by refreshing page (contrary to their instructions)
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Ulysses 31
Member
Warspite
Member
OverHeat
« generous god »
Everdrive
HerjansEagleFeeder
Member
Jailbreak patch, play roms off an sd card. Which is the best way to experience these old machines imho.
PurePlatinum
Member
I understand this technology is cool for NES/SNES/GBC, but with polygonal graphics it makes less sense. If anything PS1/N64 games look better on CRT displays because the blur/scanlines help to obscure the image.
Moses85
Member
I guess I will keep the black one and give the white to a friend of mine.
But which one has your favor?
Ulysses 31
Member
That's where filters come in. It remains to be seen how good the Analogue 3D's are but the RetroTink 5X/4K has a lot of options to make good looking ones.
And I wouldn't play 2D games with just the raw pixels either.
Miyazaki’s Slave
Gold Member
Yeah this has happened in the past as well. Just watch over the next few days they will pop in. Also, these are being produced by 8bitdo they will produce plenty and you can snag them in time for the launch in march.
Also, they (8bitdo) have conversion kits on their website to convert your old n64 controllers to support wireless connectivity over Bluetooth/2.4ghz if you want an authentic controller experience. Only a cheap option if you already have an old n64 controller, barring that grab the wireless ones from the Nintendo Store?
Ulysses 31
Member
It has an overclocked core you can switch too and get more stable/higher avg fps in games. It won't turn 30 fps games into 60 fps ones.
Kagoshima_Luke
Gold Member
Stock still available. Glad this wasn't a made scramble, only for it to go out of stock in 5 minutes.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
I appreciate the link; personally I have nothing against software emulation, and I might have bought into the idea that FPGA emulation inherently allows for better accuracy because it's replicating the circuitry 1:1. if that isn't the case, then I guess I was wrong.
However, I still think FPGA provides benefits over software emulation. They mention it in one of their points: no OS overhead. Or at least, not to the degree of overhead you'd have with software emulators on a Windows system. So depending on the system being emulated and cost you'd need for an FPGA equivalent, I suppose that you'd save money with an FPGA approach if the hardware required to emulate the system through software costs a lot to power through the OS & resources overhead on PC.
I agree, then, that any accuracy a device like this would have over software emulators is down to the core itself, not that it's running on FPGA. I'll have to remember that in the future.
But CRTs had the same benefit for 8-bit and 16-bit 2D systems, too.
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ihavezippers
Member
F*** the scalpers