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Android |OT4| I/O Silver

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Sure world wide it may be but I don't give a shit about that. I care about the US where the low end is small. And I don't know if you noticed but the US is one of the most important markets on the planet.
if you think the low end market is small in the USA you got another thing coming. Like I said, both samsung AND HTC revealed that their only phones that kept them from completely shitting the bed in their respective quarters were their low-mid end. And sooner or later those chinese companies will start creeping in.

It is the future of android unless someone pulls a rabbit of their hat.
 
if you think the low end market is small in the USA you got another thing coming. Like I said, both samsung AND HTC revealed that their only phones that kept them from completely shitting the bed in their respective quarters were their low-mid end. And sooner or later those chinese companies will start creeping in.

It is the future of android unless someone pulls a rabbit of their hat.

I don't "think" the low end market is small in the USA... It is small.

Hence me saying apple will have a monopoly if this shit gets worse.
 

Cheebo

Banned
if you think the low end market is small in the USA you got another thing coming. Like I said, both samsung AND HTC revealed that their only phones that kept them from completely shitting the bed in their respective quarters were their low-mid end. And sooner or later those chinese companies will start creeping in.

It is the future of android unless someone pulls a rabbit of their hat.

Those phones made them money in other markets than America. The low-end market in America IS small. If it wasn't Apple wouldn't consistently be the far and away leader the smartphone market in America like they are, the only other relevant company in terms of marketshare here is Samsung. The only relevant phones in terms of marketshare in the NA market are the iPhones & Galaxy S/Notes.
 
I don't "think" the low end market is small in the USA... It is small.

Hence me saying apple will have a monopoly if this shit gets worse.
I don't think it's as small as you think it is. Maybe 3 years ago but the past 2 years the low end market has grown a lot and it will only continue.

Maybe "low end" isn't the right word. "Low cost" is more accurate.
 
It's hard to have a good low cost market, when most cheap Android phones suck and you get a subsidized high-end phone for basically the same price.
 
It's hard to have a good low cost market, when most cheap Android phones suck and you get a subsidized high-end phone for basically the same price.
That sounds about right. In Canada at least people would be shocked at how many of those shitty galaxy Ace phones are activated over the high end ones simply because they are 0 dollars. At least that was before the iphone 5c existed. Not sure if the numbers are the same now.

When the chinese companies become more prominent in the US they will be offering good hardware at $0 on contract and that's where Android will live IMO. I kind of hope not though. But I have no faith in samsung/htc/lg/etc...Moto is currently trying to walk the line.
 

Quasar

Member
and you get a subsidized high-end phone for basically the same price.

Is that the reason the US is such an outlier? The whole setup of US users historically not buying unsubsidized phones unlike other parts of the world?

The whole thing is interesting. Reminds me of Nokia and how they are now totally concentrating on the mid to low cost end of the markets (much to the lament of some members of the US tech press who'd like Nokia to be doing super expensive flagship phones like other folks do - in part because flagship phones is the only thing that gets talked about in the US tech press).
 
I don't think it's as small as you think it is. Maybe 3 years ago but the past 2 years the low end market has grown a lot and it will only continue.

Maybe "low end" isn't the right word. "Low cost" is more accurate.

Regardless if its growing, still 9 out of 10 times someone goes to the store and signs a contract for a premium phone. They just don't typically understand the low end prepaid market and so they go get a subsidized phone. When you buy subdidized there is no point in buying a low end phone BC you can get a high end for the same price or just a little more . These are things you don't see or understand apparently BC you do not live here. End of story.
 

Quasar

Member
Regardless if its growing, still 9 out of 10 times someone goes to the store and signs a contract for a premium phone. They just don't typically understand the low end prepaid market and there is no point in buying a low end phone BC phones are subsidized anyways here. These are things you don't see or understand apparently BC you do not live here. End of story.

Is the prepaid market really 10% (or less) of the US cell phone market?
 
Is the prepaid market really 10% (or less) of the US cell phone market?

Its an estimate but think about it. Apple is like 50 percent of the phone market. Then you have the galaxy s series, the note series, the HTC one series, the droid and moto x series, the lg g series, etc. Also the Microsoft phones.

That's gotta be damn close to 80 - 90 percent. People buy the shit out of iPhone and galaxy. Most everything else is ignored and people rarely buy those expensive devices on prepaid unless you are a geek like us.
 
Its an estimate but think about it. Apple is like 50 percent of the phone market. Then you have the galaxy s series, the note series, the HTC one series, the droid and moto x series, the lg g series, etc. Also the Microsoft phones.

That's gotta be damn close to 80 - 90 percent. People buy the shit out of iPhone and galaxy. Most everything else is ignored and people rarely buy those expensive devices on prepaid unless you are a geek like us.
you're making the assumption that the samsung/htc/lg phones that are selling most are their flagship phones. They all make cheap ass phones as well.

Anyway in the end it doesn't even matter. I personally don't care if apple and only apple owns the high end. They aren't doing some voodoo trickery. They have a product the masses enjoy. Time for android manufacturers to step up and for google to step it up. Google has to be pretty upset that samsung is dipping so bad.
 
you're making the assumption that the samsung/htc/lg phones that are selling most are their flagship phones. They all make cheap ass phones as well.

Stop arguing for the sake of arguing already. I'm not making assumptions, I live here. I see what people have and they have s4s, s5s, and notes. They do not have the alphas and aces. You are the one making the assumptions since you live in Canada.

Edit: It matters to me. I don't want my high end phone choices to only be from apple.
 
Stop arguing for the sake of arguing already. I'm not making assumptions, I live here. I see what people have and they have s4s, s5s, and notes. They do not have the alphas and aces. You are the one making the assumptions since you live in Canada.
anecdotal evidence

I'm speaking on trends of the overall industry and I have lots of statistics to back me up. You're speaking on people you see out and about. Not sure why you're so hostile about it lol. And Canada isn't some foreign land in comparison the US.
 
anecdotal evidence

I'm speaking on trends of the overall industry and I have lots of statistics to back me up. You're speaking on people you see out and about. Not sure why you're so hostile about it lol. And Canada isn't some foreign land in comparison the US.

BC you are pulling shit out of your ass.
 

Cheebo

Banned
I spent a few weeks in Canada last year. I saw TONS of the low-end type of phones. I have never seen one in US. The markets are completely different due to contract pricing being the method nearly every singe person gets phones in US unlike Canada.
 
BC you are pulling shit out of your ass.
Right. I'm pulling it out of my ass that the low cost market is just about where Android is and where it's heading for sure. Literally every manufacturer is tanking when it comes to flagship android phones. The past 2 years have killed em.

I spent a few weeks in Canada last year. I saw TONS of the low-end type of phones. I have never seen one in US. The markets are completely different due to contract pricing being the method nearly every singe person gets phones in US unlike Canada.
huh? Our model is basically the same shit as the US.
 

Cheebo

Banned
Right. I'm pulling it out of my ass that the low cost market is just about where Android is and where it's heading for sure. Literally every manufacturer is tanking when it comes to flagship android phones. The past 2 years have killed em.


huh? Our model is basically the same shit as the US.
Contract pricing is far less common in Canada. The way the big 3 in US sell phones makes it very difficult to buy phones any other way.
 
Right. I'm pulling it out of my ass that the low cost market is just about where Android is and where it's heading for sure. Literally every manufacturer is tanking when it comes to flagship android phones. The past 2 years have killed em.


huh? Our model is basically the same shit as the US.

No you are when you are talking about the US
 
Show me stats that in Canada it is over 90% of the market like it is in US.
We have 3 major carriers in Canada. The total subscriber base for all 3 is about 25 million according to their latest quarterly results. Of that 25 million approximately 3 million are prepaid subscribers (whose numbers have been steadily decreasing the last year).

He's just arguing for the sake of arguing now.

Apple alone has 50 percent of our marketshare and he still wouldn't admit the low end is small here.
What's small? Net profits are either tanking or downright bad for all the major android manufacturers which means their premium models aren't selling which probably means the phones that are selling for them are their lower cost models. Even if it's 10-20% whatever, that's not small to me. And it's going up at a pretty fast rate.

Once again, I'm talking low cost. For instance the iphone 5C is $0 on contract. It's not really considered low end but it's low cost. I'm saying that a lot of android phones that are selling (including USA) are those that are low cost whether it's on contract or off it.
 
We have 3 major carriers in Canada. The total subscriber base for all 3 is about 25 million according to their latest quarterly results. Of that 25 million approximately 3 million are prepaid subscribers (whose numbers have been steadily decreasing the last year).


What's small? Net profits are either tanking or downright bad for all the major android manufacturers which means their premium models aren't selling which probably means the phones that are selling for them are their lower cost models. Even if it's 10-20% whatever, that's not small to me. And it's going up at a pretty fast rate.


Do you work for Blackberry? Lol
 

Cheebo

Banned
What's small? Net profits are either tanking or downright bad for all the major android manufacturers which means their premium models aren't selling which probably means the phones that are selling for them are their lower cost models. Even if it's 10-20% whatever, that's not small to me. And it's going up at a pretty fast rate.

What is this rapid lower cost growth in US that you speak of? You can't just guess these things and declare it is is going up at a fast rate when there is NO indication that low-cost phones are doing particularly well in US, let alone "going up at a pretty fast rate".

You are just making things up without anything to back up what you are saying at all.

At least post some evidence if you are going to make claims like this.
 
i thought it was the opposite and a few years ago the low end was big and has been shrinking. back when Apple and Samsung had their battle, the court docs revealed Samsung's biggest sellers were the Epic 4G Ga,axy S vartiant on Sprint and the prepaid low end Samsung Prevail or something like that, but since then, more and more people, even on prepaid, have moved to higher end models, even prepaid iPhones.
 
What is this rapid lower cost growth in US that you speak of? You can't just guess these things and declare it is is going up at a fast rate when there is NO indication that low-cost phones are doing particularly well in US, let alone "going up at a pretty fast rate".

You are just making things up without anything to back up what you are saying at all.

At least post some evidence if you are going to make claims like this.
my evidence is that android manufacturers all have either negative profits, or tanking profits for the most part. If flagship phones were the majority of their sales they wouldn't be all going into the shitter. Lower cost phones are what's keeping em hanging around. I'm not saying it's impossible for them to reverse, I hope they are able to do it. But as of now it has been trending that way for a while. Even samsung the last bastion of premium sales for android has been dropping like a rock. Technically though, I'll admit that low cost phones in emerging markets are really what's keeping android alive in the USA lol. That and samsung and we see where that's going. I could be wrong. I'm open to it. Maybe all the sales of all the android manufacturers that are selling are all flagships.

i thought it was the opposite and a few years ago the low end was big and has been shrinking. back when Apple and Samsung had their battle, the court docs revealed Samsung's biggest sellers were the Epic 4G Ga,axy S vartiant on Sprint and the prepaid low end Samsung Prevail or something like that, but since then, more and more people, even on prepaid, have moved to higher end models, even prepaid iPhones.
I doubt many are getting prepaid iphone 6s and stuff. Most prepaid iphone sales are probably lower cost models like the 5c which is what I'm referring to.

I think Motorola is doing it right by walking the line. High end phone for a moderately lower price than all the other flagships, plus two lower end models.
 

RedFyn

Member
my evidence is that android manufacturers all have either negative profits, or tanking profits for the most part. If flagship phones were the majority of their sales they wouldn't be all going into the shitter.
That's simply not true.

Lower cost phones are what's keeping em hanging around.
Do you have a link for this. I don't know their financials; this could be true. The issue is that no one else believes it and you haven't shown any evidence to support your claim.

are the chinese oems making money?
Not much
http://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyolson/2014/12/15/xiaomi-profit-margins-samsung-china/
 

Linius

Member
Xiaomi is definitely making money. Huawei is probably as well. Not sure on the others.

Huawei is growing fast in my country. At first I only saw their cheap phones as prepaid sellers. Now they have a wide range of models that you can get on contract at all the big carriers. Sponsering football clubs in Europe helps too I guess. My club Ajax works with Huawei for the WiFi network at the stadium. They're much more visible compared to roughly two years ago.
 

Blackhead

Redarse
Am I reading this right? People are actually saying 5C is a 'low end' phone? Oh my.

iPhone 5c a high priced 'low end' phone. The Nexus 5 is a low priced 'high end' phone. And furthermore price/value/'highend' is further distorted in markets like USA and Japan where carriers heavily subsidize iPhones while the Nexus 5 doesn't get the same subsidy.
 

Volotaire

Member
I think it's clear that consumers do not purchase Beats headphones for their sound quality. I don't think most of these consumers care about the extremities of high sound quality. So long it is above a threshold in sound quality, it's because Beats is a fashion accessory that consumers purchase it. I don't see anything irrational about that decision.
 

tzare

Member
I think it's clear that consumers do not purchase Beats headphones for their sound quality. I don't think most of these consumers care about the extremities of high sound quality. So long it is above a threshold in sound quality, it's because Beats is a fashion accessory that consumers purchase it. I don't see anything irrational about that decision.
Same as iPhones or Audis or other expensive brands.
They are purchased because are part of social status or it is cool.
Not that they are bad products but are overpriced and overrated. But those will always sell more than a better product without that luxury aura around them.
 

Cheebo

Banned
Most consumers who buy electronic devices do not look into the specs nor care about that side of thing at all. No one really cares about that other than the hardcore niche like who post in places like this.
 

Volotaire

Member
Same as iPhones or Audis or other expensive brands.
They are purchased because are part of social status or it is cool.
Not that they are bad products but are overpriced and overrated. But those will always sell more than a better product without that luxury aura around them.

Yep, I was answering more towards the posters who had 'irrational' sentiments towards the consumers decision.
 
Same as iPhones or Audis or other expensive brands.
They are purchased because are part of social status or it is cool.
Not that they are bad products but are overpriced and overrated. But those will always sell more than a better product without that luxury aura around them.
iphones are overpriced and overrated? Apple only charges what the market will pay. Their product is one of the extremely few very premium-all-round smartphones out there.

As for beats, I personally don't care for them and someone already said it above but everyone knows you could get better sound quality for less if you really knew your audio shit but most people don't care. It sounds great to them and it's a great fashion accessory.
 
iPhone 5c a high priced 'low end' phone. The Nexus 5 is a low priced 'high end' phone. And furthermore price/value/'highend' is further distorted in markets like USA and Japan where carriers heavily subsidize iPhones while the Nexus 5 doesn't get the same subsidy.

Specs have nothing to do with it, only price does. The iPhone 5c has nothing to do with the low end/low price game. 450 dollar phones do not belong in this category.

This will teach ya
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Affordable-not-cheap-15-best-low-cost-smartphones_id58696
 
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