Apple September Event 2017 |OT| A Top-Notch Keynote

jimmypython said:
I love Mac mini :(
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I'd love for them to update it...Don't need a redesign if it's not ready, just the latest chips.

It feels really weird that the 700 dollar Mini is slower than the 179 dollar ATV 4K now.

Also twice the memory bandwidth of the Switch, stronger GPU, over double the CPU perf...It could be a sweet microconsole if they kept getting developers.
 
giga said:
I don't know what catch up services mean but prime video isn't dependent on apple. But Amazon has already said it's coming so it's just waiting now.

Regarding apps, I just don't think that will ever be a truly big platform because of the price. If people want to game they buy dedicated consoles and if they want media streaming they get a cheap streaming box. The Apple TV is in a weird position where it's a "premium" streaming box and the specs definitely show that but the software side is up to devs to really utilize (which I don't think they ever will).
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By catch-up TV I mean things like iPlayer (which it has) and ITV Hub/4oD (which it doesn't). Apps that let you catch up on terrestrial TV that you may have missed.

The thing is that it could be a great product. The success of the iPhone shows that an app store with good material available is a major, if not the major, selling point for these kinds of devices. Yes it's down to the developers to create the apps but to me there hasn't been a clear indication from Apple exactly what they want it to be. The iPhone has always been marketed as the computer you take with you - a 'post PC' device. Want to check your emails, IM people, play games, do work, watch video/films, listen to music etc? We've got you covered. Apple are trying to sell Apple TV as the future of the medium but yet they're failing to lead by example.

Maybe I'm being too harsh to expect them to define every category they enter or maybe I've not really explored what it can offer but at the minute all I really have is a streaming device I can play mobile style games on.
 
dl77 said:
By catch-up TV I mean things like iPlayer (which it has) and ITV Hub/4oD (which it doesn't). Apps that let you catch up on terrestrial TV that you may have missed.

The thing is that it could be a great product. The success of the iPhone shows that an app store with good material available is a major, if not the major, selling point for these kinds of devices. Yes it's down to the developers to create the apps but to me there hasn't been a clear indication from Apple exactly what they want it to be. The iPhone has always been marketed as the computer you take with you - a 'post PC' device. Want to check your emails, IM people, play games, do work, watch video/films, listen to music etc? We've got you covered. Apple are trying to sell Apple TV as the future of the medium but yet they're failing to lead by example.

Maybe I'm being too harsh to expect them to define every category they enter or maybe I've not really explored what it can offer but at the minute all I really have is a streaming device I can play mobile style games on.
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You have to ask yourself if many people are willing to pay $150+ for another app platform that lives under their TV. I think the answer is no. Phones have become essential devices so it's viable for devs to target that but for media boxes? I just don't see it outside of entertainment apps. I don't want to check my emails and message people on my tv. I only want to watch video and photos.
 
All the Apple TV needed to be was something like the Chromecast, a stick to stream stuff from your iDevice, be it video, music or games. In it's current form it'll stay a 'hobby' as it's in the no man's land between streaming sticks and proper gaming machines, which have all the popular streaming apps built in anyway.
 
LordOfChaos said:
I'd love for them to update it...Don't need a redesign if it's not ready, just the latest chips.

It feels really weird that the 700 dollar Mini is slower than the 179 dollar ATV 4K now.

Also twice the memory bandwidth of the Switch, stronger GPU, over double the CPU perf...It could be a sweet microconsole if they kept getting developers.
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The Mac Mini is in an odd place. They could just put new chips in it no problem, but Jony probably wants to redesign it, but does it sell enough to warrant a redesign?

The Mac desktop team needs a bit of a kick in the head.
 
jstripes said:
The Mac Mini is in an odd place. They could just put new chips in it no problem, but Jony probably wants to redesign it, but does it sell enough to warrant a redesign?

The Mac desktop team needs a bit of a kick in the head.
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They're doing the new fancy iMac and the new standalone pro Mac next year. I think they probably don't want to be in the Mac Mini space because there's not much demand (yes, I know amongst mega enthusiasts, there is, but there isn't as a market segment) for a small quiet more-than-set-top-box less-than-desktop device. I think their position would be "if you want this for media, get an apple tv, and if you want this to use macOS, then get an iMac". It's a bummer of course, but I don't expect it to change at all.
 
Stumpokapow said:
They're doing the new fancy iMac and the new standalone pro Mac next year. I think they probably don't want to be in the Mac Mini space because there's not much demand (yes, I know amongst mega enthusiasts, there is, but there isn't as a market segment) for a small quiet more-than-set-top-box less-than-desktop device. It's a bummer of course.
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The demand is probably along the lines of the Time Capsule and Airport Express lines. It is significant, but not "apple" significant volume.
 
Stumpokapow said:
They're doing the new fancy iMac and the new standalone pro Mac next year. I think they probably don't want to be in the Mac Mini space because there's not much demand (yes, I know amongst mega enthusiasts, there is, but there isn't as a market segment) for a small quiet more-than-set-top-box less-than-desktop device. I think their position would be "if you want this for media, get an apple tv, and if you want this to use macOS, then get an iMac". It's a bummer of course, but I don't expect it to change at all.
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It's a shame because it could be a good business-oriented machine, but Apple's decided iOS is their gateway to enterprise, and I can't really blame them. Traditional enterprise infrastructure is built almost entirely around Windows, but mobile is the new realm and they got in at the ground level this time.
 
I only just noticed last night that the X is a smaller non-plus phone. Like it's only slightly bigger than a normal non-plus. I wonder if next year, or whatever year they merge the models, they'll have a Plus version of the X or XI or 11 or whatever it ends up being called. Possibly when the OLED screens are more readily available.

SuperEpicMan said:
Has it been confirmed anywhere if you can wirelessly charge your phone whilst it is in a case?
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I'd like to know this too. Or will we need new cases. Hopefully cases made for the X will just come with compatibility built-in. It'd be stupid if any case maker released a case that didn't allow the charging through. I mean we'll need new cases anyway. At least for the X. The 8 models look like they'd probably fit existing 7 cases. I'd love confirmation on this.

Kurt Angle said:
vO2Izze.jpg
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Almost same. But I can wait. I'll wait for the kinks to be worked out and the tech to be cheaper. I love my 7+. I'll probably have a harder time convincing myself not to get an 8+ rather than an X.

neptunes said:
Can they not add TouchID to the back in future versions?
or even into the front screen?
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We can wish. But if FaceID takes off and works as well as they claim, it's probably not coming back and they're probably not going to bother trying to put a sensor under the glass if they don't have to.

LyleLanley said:
Is there any reason why the LTE watches have the red dot on the crown besides just to show people that you have the LTE version?
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There were some people above talking about how at the hospital, watches with cellular are banned. I would not bat an eye if Apple did it on purpose to make it stand out so they could tell if someone was breaking the rules.

Lord Error said:
Sounds like also no more custom ringtones? That sucks.
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I'm sure you can still use the tried and true method of using QuickTime X to crop a song, export it as MP4, import into iTunes, export as M4A and rename to M4R then import in as a ringtone.

Or however the method goes. Ringtones are just M4A files with a different extension.
 
The Real Abed said:
I'd like to know this too. Or will we need new cases. Hopefully cases made for the X will just come with compatibility built-in. It'd be stupid if any case maker released a case that didn't allow the charging through. I mean we'll need new cases anyway. At least for the X. The 8 models look like they'd probably fit existing 7 cases. I'd love confirmation on this.
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Probably depends on material and thickness.
Wireless charging will work with the Apple leather and silicone cases.

And yes, 7 cases work on the 8 per Apple's store site.
 
dallow_bg said:
And yes, 7 cases work on the 8 per Apple's store site.
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At least that's one benefit. Especially since instead of getting a 7S we got an 8. They could have easily just called the 8 the 7S and no one would have cared. I guess this way they only skip one number instead of two. Though really, the numbers haven't made sense since the 4.
 
dl77 said:
As I've mentioned before an improvement to catch-up services and actually getting Prime Video out there would be a start. An app store that isn't simply stagnating where pretty much all the top apps have been there since day one. Though I don't own an iPhone surely it's not beyond their expertise to tie it into Apple TV so someone could come home, slump onto the sofa, hold up their phone and say something like "Siri, play Narcos on Apple TV" and have it boot up and start streaming. When they first revealed the device Tim Cook said, and I quote, "We believe the future of TV is apps" and, to me at least, that future still seems a long way off.

If I remember correctly it's got a huge heat sink built in and that's clearly not necessary for pretty much everything that currently runs on the device. Therefore you can tell by the device itself that they want it to be more than a Netflix box that also plays a thousand different endless runner games.

Maybe it's because I'm not tied into iPhotos/Apple Music etc but for me there's little to differentiate it from it's competitors that make me feel that the device is worth the premium you pay for it.
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Bingo. Apple TV is the ideal compliment to the Apple ecosystem, but if you're not invested in that ecosystem, there's less that differentiates it. As an iTunes customer for my television needs, it was the most sensible option of all the options available. But if it's just a streaming box that you use with no ties to the iPhone or Mac already in your possession, its utility is hampered severely.

Stumpokapow said:
They're doing the new fancy iMac and the new standalone pro Mac next year. I think they probably don't want to be in the Mac Mini space because there's not much demand (yes, I know amongst mega enthusiasts, there is, but there isn't as a market segment) for a small quiet more-than-set-top-box less-than-desktop device. I think their position would be "if you want this for media, get an apple tv, and if you want this to use macOS, then get an iMac". It's a bummer of course, but I don't expect it to change at all.
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I think it's less about demand and more to do with the fact that Mac mini customers, by and large, don't care if the envelope gets pushed on the hardware front. They stay in hardware configurations for longer than every other model of Mac because it's a computer for people who need the barest essentials that don't want or need the utility of a MacBook for portability and the barest flexibility in its use that an iPad can't facilitate. They are a popular solution for employee workstations in pro-Mac IT environments for that reason; those employees don't need an iMac to work a spreadsheet, but they do need the familiarity of a mouse. And for consumers, they're designed for people who can use it without upgrading it for several years and not experience any impediment to their daily use. So if that's your consumer base for the product, that means you can better spend R&D elsewhere.
 
Sorry if this has already been answered, but 4K content is not exclusive to Apple TV 4K, right? It'll be in iTunes where 4K can be viewed?
 
Stumpokapow said:
They're doing the new fancy iMac and the new standalone pro Mac next year. I think they probably don't want to be in the Mac Mini space because there's not much demand (yes, I know amongst mega enthusiasts, there is, but there isn't as a market segment) for a small quiet more-than-set-top-box less-than-desktop device. I think their position would be "if you want this for media, get an apple tv, and if you want this to use macOS, then get an iMac". It's a bummer of course, but I don't expect it to change at all.
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there's no demand because Apple keeps releasing shitty mac mini options. I hate when Apple creates that negative feedback loop. If there's really no demand then they should kill it. Either release something good or don't bother at all. It's disgusting what they've done to the product line.
 
Also, to touch on the Face ID "failure" debate, I just downloaded the iOS 11 GM and after the update completed, it gave me the generic "Your passcode is required to enable Touch ID" message, so we have another working theory for why it happened.
 
Terrell said:
Also, to touch on the Face ID "failure" debate, I just downloaded the iOS 11 GM and after the update completed, it gave me the generic "Your passcode is required to enable Touch ID" message, so we have another working theory for why it happened.
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Except we already knew this during the conference when someone noticed that.
 
Aiii said:
Except we already knew this during the conference when someone noticed that.
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Yet the debate that Face ID "failed" raged on regardless because people were hung up on the nomenclature of the message that preceded the failure not being in line with the message as it's written in iOS 10. How it's presented in iOS 11 fully invalidates that sticking point, that's the point.
 
Jtwo said:
My hot take: kinda surprised how lukewarm I am on the phones since I've got a fairly old (at this point) 6+. But man, I really want a new apple watch!
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it's the diminishing returns. not all that much changes anymore. nothing monumental at least that will affect your day to day usage.
 
I wish we had one final new design for devices with touch id.Not bezel free like X but a bit more shrinked and modernized than we had in last 3 generations.Seeing 8's lazy design just makes me sad.
 
JrBaconCheeseburger said:
Why is apple raising prices on everything ?

Seems like quite a few things saw increase.
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They're just going to keep doing it to increase overall revenue. They've got people hooked bad. Once you have a watch, an iPhone maybe an iPad how do you get out of the ecosystem, people will just pay the extra $100-200 for the product.
 
My wife wanted an Apple Watch but she is really turned off by the bright red beacon on the side of the Series 3. It does seem like an odd design decision now that I think about it though. On a piece of jewelry that offers so much customization in the face, band, and body, why would they require users who want LTE to wear a bright, bold, red accent?
 
arbok26 said:
Seriously though, for the majority of people, I bet they'll grumble a bit and pay it for pretty much the most used device in everybody's lives. Heck if it was $2000 I bet people would still pay it. If people from less well off countries on way way lower salaries will pay it, im sure its not in the Ferrari levels of unaffordable luxury item yet.
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I think the majority of people will weigh things up and settle for an iPhone 8 or 8 Plus for now.
 
Terrell said:
Also, to touch on the Face ID "failure" debate, I just downloaded the iOS 11 GM and after the update completed, it gave me the generic "Your passcode is required to enable Touch ID" message, so we have another working theory for why it happened.
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AFAIK here are the reasons iOS will prompt you for a passcode even when TouchID is enabled:

The passcode can always be used instead of Touch ID, and it’s still required under the following circumstances:

The device has just been turned on or restarted.
The device has not been unlocked for more than 48 hours.
The passcode has not been used to unlock the device in the last six days and TouchID has not unlocked the device in the last eight hours.
The device has received a remote lock command.
After five unsuccessful attempts to match a fingerprint.
When setting up or enrolling new fingers with Touch ID.


The restart will actually mention that a restart occurred. All the other ones will just give the 'passcode must be entered' message
 
hirokazu said:
I think the majority of people will weigh things up and settle for an iPhone 8 or 8 Plus for now.
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Have to disagree. I remember recommending the iPhone 5c to my sister in law. That was a bad move, because the iPhone 5s was just $100 more if I recall and the 5s did way better. I think people will just get the best of whatever is out.

I could only see people going for an 8 if they don't care that much about the camera. Otherwise people are going to get the 8 Plus at the very least or more likely the X.

If they spaced out the price say - $1200 (vs $750 for the 8 Plus) and the release date (say early 2018), I could see people buying the 8 more, but $150 and a month is really close.
 
arbok26 said:
Have to disagree. I remember recommending the iPhone 5c to my sister in law. That was a bad move, because the iPhone 5s was just $100 more if I recall and the 5s did way better. I think people will just get the best of whatever is out.

I could only see people going for an 8 if they don't care that much about the camera. Otherwise people are going to get the 8 Plus at the very least or more likely the X.

If they spaced out the price say - $1200 (vs $750 for the 8 Plus) and the release date (say early 2018), I could see people buying the 8 more, but $150 and a month is really close.
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8+ is $800, not $750. I don't see people clambering for the X as much as people think. $1k is a lot of money a lot of people still don't understand why it's significantly better than an 8+. It has a couple nice things but can't say I'm that wowed over motion controls that it's worth $200 for essentially just that and an OLED.

I feel like the 8 is becoming a super awkward product though. They keep needlessly skimping so hard on that model that even if you think 8+ is uncomfortable to use, I would think it's still difficult to choose an 8 over an 8+. The 8 is just so poorly designed in comparison.
 
Zaraki_Kenpachi said:
8+ is $800, not $750. I don't see people clambering for the X as much as people think. $1k is a lot of money a lot of people still don't understand why it's significantly better than an 8+. It has a couple nice things but can't say I'm that wowed over motion controls that it's worth $200 for essentially just that and an OLED.

I feel like the 8 is becoming a super awkward product though. They keep needlessly skimping so hard on that model that even if you think 8+ is uncomfortable to use, I would think it's still difficult to choose an 8 over an 8+. The 8 is just so poorly designed in comparison.
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The main reason the X appeals to me is that it has the dual lens camera but in a smaller phone body. The plus is too big for my pockets, but those camera features are awesome. Still can't afford it though
 
RowdyReverb said:
The main reason the X appeals to me is that it has the dual lens camera but in a smaller phone body. The plus is too big for my pockets, but those camera features are awesome. Still can't afford it though
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Right but if you're only looking at small bodied phones it's $300 more for it. I think that's a tough pill to swallow when the 8+ is $100 more and the X doesn't particularly add a whole lot for the money.
 
Zaraki_Kenpachi said:
8+ is $800, not $750. I don't see people clambering for the X as much as people think. $1k is a lot of money a lot of people still don't understand why it's significantly better than an 8+. It has a couple nice things but can't say I'm that wowed over motion controls that it's worth $200 for essentially just that and an OLED.

I feel like the 8 is becoming a super awkward product though. They keep needlessly skimping so hard on that model that even if you think 8+ is uncomfortable to use, I would think it's still difficult to choose an 8 over an 8+. The 8 is just so poorly designed in comparison.
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I had a Plus for a year with the 6S and hated it. The phone was just too big to be as useful to me. Went back to the standard size with the 7 and am happy again. I’m upgrading to the 8 - and don’t see anything worse in the design.
 
SuperPac said:
I had a Plus for a year with the 6S and hated it. The phone was just too big to be as useful to me. Went back to the standard size with the 7 and am happy again. I’m upgrading to the 8 - and don’t see anything worse in the design.
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I'm not sure what you mean by design but it's pretty aggressively nerfed in specs compared to the plus model. Probably to push people to spend the extra $100.
 
ZeroX03 said:
Personally I don't think it's worth going from the 6S+ to anything other than an X. The 6S is still a pretty feature full phone and it works well. Arguably isn't worth paying the premium to go up to that either.
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I agree. I have a 6+ and it's still perfectly good. I was looking forward to the X for a new thing, but man the loss of Touch ID seems silly. I use it all the time for apps. I care about it so much, I even went into the settings to keep it one-touch unlock when Apple tried to sabotage it with iOS 10.
 
SuperPac said:
I had a Plus for a year with the 6S and hated it. The phone was just too big to be as useful to me. Went back to the standard size with the 7 and am happy again. I’m upgrading to the 8 - and don’t see anything worse in the design.
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I'm not a fan of the iPhone 6 design, and 6 through 8, I think the 7 is the best.

For one, the camera bump is the best disguised. The antenna lines also make for a more uniform case. Haven't seen the 8 I person, obviously, but from pics I think it still doesn't look quite as nice as the 7.

Out of curiosity, you're not getting the X? As mentioned by someone else the dual cameras on the smaller phone seems to be a big deal, and I think the phone looks great. Price is a big deal too though.
 
hirokazu said:
I think the majority of people will weigh things up and settle for an iPhone 8 or 8 Plus for now.
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I don't think so. People always opt for the best that's available.

However, I predict lots of people switching to Android flagships this time around. LG V30 seems to be an amazing choice which I am also looking into now after years of iPhones.
 
Zaraki_Kenpachi said:
I'm not sure what you mean by design but it's pretty aggressively nerfed in specs compared to the plus model. Probably to push people to spend the extra $100.
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The nerfs are not in areas that outweigh my dislike of the Plus size.

mrkgoo said:
I'm not a fan of the iPhone 6 design, and 6 through 8, I think the 7 is the best.

For one, the camera bump is the best disguised. The antenna lines also make for a more uniform case. Haven't seen the 8 I person, obviously, but from pics I think it still doesn't look quite as nice as the 7.

Out of curiosity, you're not getting the X? As mentioned by someone else the dual cameras on the smaller phone seems to be a big deal, and I think the phone looks great. Price is a big deal too though.
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I’d really need to hold it to determine if I’d want the larger size. I don’t care enough about edge to edge, the camera, face id, or the front-facing camera stuff to take the plunge on it this year. Next year, I’ll go X or X-2. I’m on the IUP, so I can wait. It’s a great-looking phone, but, I’ll be fine with the 8 while everyone’s beta testing face id, the new swipe gestures and the notch. I only care about the faster processor and in that area it’s the same as the 8.
 
SuperPac said:
The nerfs are not in areas that outweigh my dislike of the Plus size.



I'd really need to hold it to determine if I'd want the larger size. I don't care enough about edge to edge, the camera, face id, or the front-facing camera stuff to take the plunge on it this year. Next year, I'll go X or X-2. I'm on the IUP, so I can wait. It's a great-looking phone, but, I'll be fine with the 8 while everyone's beta testing face id, the new swipe gestures and the notch. I only care about the faster processor and in that area it's the same as the 8.
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I didn't claim it did, I'm saying it's sad how much they nerf that phone spec-wise to try to force people to spend $100 more. It frustrating to see you have to give up so much just to have a smaller size if you prefer that.

PodcastFips said:
I don't think so. People always opt for the best that's available.

However, I predict lots of people switching to Android flagships this time around. LG V30 seems to be an amazing choice which I am also looking into now after years of iPhones.
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[citation needed]
 
dc89 said:
I think it's Watch OS4. They talked about it before announcing the new Watch so I hope it's the OS
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It's not constant heart rate monitoring though. The Watch only doesn't constant monitoring during a workout. The change is that you can now easily view your heart rate on a graph throughout the day, and it differentiates between resting, walking and workout heart rates.

The app in watchOS 3 wasn't much good since it could only display the last reading.
 
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