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[Davidion]

Gotta say, kinda disappointed that "with right hand" wasn't appended to the end of the thread title.

astrolad do you own an iphone or an android?

GAFfers

 

[Blackhead]

I hold a degree in common sense, comes in handy.

The fact is that Apple was already in the case business. Did anyone see them release the iPad case and not expect a case for the new iPhone? And if they were already releasing a case, and any case by definition removes the antenna issue, it's hard to argue it exists solely for that reason.

Should we expect Laptop bags and cases from Apple as well? The iPad case provided an important function beyond 'protection', it doubles as a stand. The bumpers do no such thing and in fact Apple was trumpeting how much more resilient the iPhone 4 is compared to other phones. It doesn't make much sense that Apple would think it needs further protection. Now I'm not arguing that the bumper design, i.e. the focus on protecting the antenna, indicates anything in particular. I do however feel that the existence of the case at all is reason enough for suspicion of Apple's motives in light of recent events, especially as one of Apple's first responses to the antenna problem was "buy a bumper"

 

[AstroLad]

astrolad do you own an iphone or an android?

No I own an iTouch 3 and this really old LG flipphone (I mentioned earlier that I stay away from smartphones because I can't stand talking on them -- old fashioned and idiosyncratic).

edit: also to all those saying that iPhone 4 defenders somehow have a "right" to return a product they argued and tried to convince everyone was "perfect": ever heard of, you know, standing behind your words?

 

[Ecto311]

My take on this. It's pretty simple and inevitable actually.

Denial - not an option because they are housing a press conference and the issue has been proven real.

Magic second SW fix. Not likely, but then again, they switched no Intel on the fly.

Full Recall - not necessary because it's not a safety issue and everyone is not bothered.

Free Bumpers - not likely because it would admit the problem but say they won't fix it.

Cash back - not likely because it would say "iPhone 4 is cheaper because it's a crapper phone"

Voluntary replacement to updated HW build - most likely. People who are bothered can switch, case closed.

Voluntary replacement is most likely? I think everyone would go in and get a revision of their current device. Just because the thing works in one place doesn't mean you will just have a great phone where ever you go. If they offer that I imagine most will opt for it just to have the better hardware.

They should either send out bumpers to fix it without taking in old hardware and replacing it with new stuff or offer a full refund without the restocking fee (I heard they were doing this already).

All this bullshit makes me wonder how the captivate will hold up to this phone. I have done nothing but baby this phone since the day I got it (day before release) and it has a fuckin scratch on the screen. My wife who is hard on stuff had a 3g for 2 years and no scratches at all. If the captivate has a glass screen that might sell me alone.

Really surprised samsung hasn't pushed the fuck out of the phone to take advantage of this oppertunity for trade in of the iPhone for their phone.

 

[Axion22]

All I'm saying is all the defenders in here saying it's "not a problem for me" better not be returning theirs in the event of a voluntary replacement program.

Before this, I wanted to say I was affected to not have to buy a bumper at $29. Yes, I'd absolutely lie to Apple to save a buck.

 

[Tobor]

Should we expect Laptop bags and cases from Apple as well? The iPad case provided an important function beyond 'protection', it doubles as a stand. The bumpers do no such thing and in fact Apple was trumpeting how much more resilient the iPhone 4 is compared to other phones. It doesn't make much sense that Apple would think it needs further protection. Now I'm not arguing that the bumper design, i.e. the focus on protecting the antenna, indicates anything in particular. I do however feel that the existence of the case at all is reason enough for suspicion of Apple's motives in light of recent events, especially as one of Apple's first responses to the antenna problem was "buy a bumper"

We'll just have to disagree, then. The case market is gigantic, and Jobs has been vocal about hating how they cover everything up in the past. The "well worn jeans" quote comes to mind.

As for laptop cases, just like everything else about the Mac, it's second fiddle to the iDevices at this point.

 

[Technosteve]

my first phone was a nokia 6680 i guess it's a "smart" phone. Built like a brick long battery life too.

 

[Minsc]

Interesting take on Apple's speech here.

We're leaning toward the blow-by-blow posted on MacRumors by Will ("spblat") Irace, a veteran systems engineer from Portland who likes to moderate discussions about taboo subjects like politics, religion and Apple Inc. This is what he envisions:

My prediction is similar to others we've seen. They'll say something like this:

"The iPhone 4 has been our most popular product ever. We've been excited and humbled by unprecedented sales volume of the past few weeks. It's been our biggest Apple launch ever. Millions of people are loving their iPhone 4's. Retina etc. Awesome.

We've made incredible improvements in the RF design of this device. Here are some examples of press coverage describing the iPhone 4's ability to hold onto calls in what used to be dead spots.

We understand that there have been reports of some people experiencing reception problems when the iPhone 4 is handled in a particular way. We agree that appearance of these problems is related to the "innovative" external antenna design, but this issue has been exacerbated by an error we made in how we display the bars in iOS. [Reference what was learned from Anandtech's analysis.]

We are extremely confident in the overall design of the product. So much so that today we're announcing that anyone who buys an iPhone 4 during its first 6 months can return it--no questions asked--within 30 days of purchase, with no restocking fee, regardless of which authorized reseller you bought it from. This includes the 1.7 million people who bought an iPhone 4 on launch day. We're confident you will love your iPhone.

In addition, next week we will release a software update that will (among other enhancements) do two things. 1) It will make our signal display more accurate, and 2) it will include an update to the radio equipment in the iPhone that will make it more effective at maximizing signal strength even when the two antennas are bridged by your hand.

Finally, anyone who has already bought an iPhone 4 will receive a $50 Apple Store gift card with our compliments. If you would prefer to make sure the two external antennas are never bridged by the way you hold your iPhone, you can buy a bumper or another case on us. If you don't feel you need a case for your iPhone (or if you already bought one) we hope you enjoy whatever you buy with the card.

That's all we have to announce for today. Thanks for coming. And screw Jason Chen. And also those dirtbags at Consumer Reports."

I would be more than satisfied with a response like this, although the $50 gift card is probably a tad optimistic (but recall for precedent the credit to existing iPhone users when the price dropped suddenly). And I bet they don't say word one about the proximity sensor issue, or the white iPhone 4.

All in all, sounds pretty decent way of handling the media.

 

[Blackhead]

No I own an iTouch 3 and this really old LG flipphone (I mentioned earlier that I stay away from smartphones because I can't stand talking on them -- old fashioned and idiosyncratic).

I don't get that combo though. I'm guessing you're not at all interested in paying the monthy bill for data? Otherwise even the simplest smartphone is leagues ahead of dumbphones in managing phonecalls and text messaging. Visual voicemail alone is reason enough to get an iPhone 2G over a dumb phone...

 

[wolfmat]

Naw, this is probably to announce their software fix:

if (antennaCovered(lowerLeft))
{
inflateBars();
profit();
}

Probably at least like:

if([[antenna LOWER_LEFT]obstruction]){
    Profit profit = [[Profit alloc] init];
    [p inflateBars];
    [p boostPower: BOOST_SAFE_AMOUNT into: [antenna LOWER_LEFT]];
    [p release];  // auto-calls profit in dealloc
}

 

[Hitokage]

I humbly accept defeat.

Also, for those interested, there is a good interview on NPR with Consumer Reports on this subject. Gave me more respect for CR. I had no idea the extent to which they are truly independent. They buy all the shit they test from retail (no corporate gifting) and test thousands of products and score them annually by hand. They even follow up on reviews later on depending on customers long-term experiences.

CR doesn't accept advertising money either.

 

[AstroLad]

I don't get that combo though. I'm guessing you're not at all interested in paying the monthy bill for data? Otherwise even the simplest smartphone is leagues ahead of dumbphones in managing phonecalls and text messaging. Visual voicemail alone is reason enough to get an iPhone 2G over a dumb phone...

None of that stuff really appeals to me, and certainly not enough for me to have to talk on a device I don't find comfortable. Like I said old-fashioned. :lol

 

[LaneDS]

I would just like to add that I was sitting here refreshing Engadget and similar sites wondering why there wasn't any coverage of the conference, only to realize what day it was. Ahem.

 

[Gary Whitta]

Interesting take on Apple's speech here.




All in all, sounds pretty decent way of handling the media.

I agree, this seems like it would placate everyone short of the entrenched trolls who are determined to hate on Apple no matter what they do. But it won't close the issue until the software update comes out and is seen to fix the problem. If it doesn't they'll be right back where they started. Have any antenna experts commented on whether a software workaround can mitigate the antennae being bridged?

 

[Dreams-Visions]

^ disagree.

Interesting take on Apple's speech here.




All in all, sounds pretty decent way of handling the media.

Nice wording, but amounts to fluff. A resolution that does not suggest a slight hardware amendment is fail.

 

[Blackhead]

We'll just have to disagree, then. The case market is gigantic, and Jobs has been vocal about hating how they cover everything up in the past. The "well worn jeans" quote comes to mind.

As for laptop cases, just like everything else about the Mac, it's second fiddle to the iDevices at this point.

I'm not ruling out the reasons you give. I can see why they went with this particular design for the bumpers. I'm simply saying that it's not enough to dismiss the idea that the case is connected to the antenna issue. The Bloomberg article suggests that Jobs knew about the antenna problem last year. That's well before the iPad debuted and enough time for Apple to decide they are getting into the case business. Afterall, Apple has been clear that they don't like the way the screen protectors for the iPhone are applied. Should we now expect Apple to join in the market and 'do it right' as well?

 

[elohel]

No I own an iTouch 3 and this really old LG flipphone (I mentioned earlier that I stay away from smartphones because I can't stand talking on them -- old fashioned and idiosyncratic).

edit: also to all those saying that iPhone 4 defenders somehow have a "right" to return a product they argued and tried to convince everyone was "perfect": ever heard of, you know, standing behind your words?

its like I'm back at macrumors

 

[Gary Whitta]

^ disagree.


Nice wording, but amounts to fluff. A resolution that does not suggest a slight hardware amendment is fail.

Do you know enough about how antenna software works to say this with any certainty? I would withhold judgment until I heard from an expert who could speak with authority on whether or not software can fix this.

 

[badcrumble]

Interesting take on Apple's speech here.




All in all, sounds pretty decent way of handling the media.

sorry but the only way for Apple to fix this is to go bankrupt immediately and donate their immense cash reserves to Linus Torvalds and for Steve Jobs to publicly commit seppuku

 

[SimleuqiR]

sorry but the only way for Apple to fix this is to go bankrupt immediately and donate their immense cash reserves to Linus Torvalds and for Steve Jobs to publicly commit seppuku

:lol Oh Gaf....

 

[giga]

The new signal mappings in iOS 4.1 vs Android: http://www.anandtech.com/print/3821

4.1 vs 4.0 vs 2.2:

 

[Tobor]

I'm not ruling out the reasons you give. I can see why they went with this particular design for the bumpers. I'm simply saying that it's not enough to dismiss the idea that the case is connected to the antenna issue. The Bloomberg article suggests that Jobs knew about the antenna problem last year. That's well before the iPad debuted and enough time for Apple to decide they are getting into the case business. Afterall, Apple has been clear that they don't like the way the screen protectors for the iPhone are applied. Should we now expect Apple to join in the market and 'do it right' as well?

I'm not sure what you mean about the screen protectors. They responded to that by yanking them out of the Apple store. The way to do that right is to not install one.

 

[StuBurns]

I'm going to return mine if I can get an updated one without question, despite not having an issue so far. I can't imagine why I wouldn't.

 

[Minsc]

The new signal mappings in iOS 4.1 vs Android: http://www.anandtech.com/print/3821

[IG]http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/gadgets/apple/iPhone4/part2/signalbarmapping.jpg[/IMG]

4.1 vs 4.0 vs 2.2:

[IM]http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/gadgets/apple/iPhone4/part2/iOSandroid.png[/IMG]

They're still sorta screwing themselves over because if the death grip takes -20hp you can still get bumped from pretty healthy to unconscious in one attack. It costs way too much to keep going to the church to get revived every day, and you never quite get over the humiliation of having gone in the first place.

 

[JDeluis]

They will end up giving $30 Apple store credit towards a bumper or different case. Customers will just end up using the credit towards another apple item.

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

They're still sorta screwing themselves over because if the death grip takes -20hp you can still get bumped from pretty healthy to unconscious in one attack. It costs way too much to keep going to the church to get revived every day, and you never quite get over the humiliation of having gone in the first place.

Man. Now I want to play Dragon Quest IX. =/

 

[subrock]

TheStreet reports on new research from Rodman Renshaw analyst Ashok Kumar claiming that Apple has developed an internal insulator to isolate the iPhone 4's antenna connection that has been causing signal reception issues.
Apple has created "a design fix for the iPhone 4 that more adequately insulates the transceiver," said Rodman Renshaw analyst Ashok Kumar, who spoke to the company's manufacturing partners.

Apple has told its manufacturers to alter the iPhone production process to include an internal component that will insulate the defective antenna connection that has disrupted the phone's signal reception, said Kumar. This internal bumper will give Apple a non-cosmetic solution and will presumably avoid the need to change the appearance of the phone, said Kumar.

The report notes that the implied change to Apple's manufacturing process is making its presence known in Apple's U.S. online retail store, where shipping estimates have slipped to three weeks from a 7-10 business day timeframe earlier. MacRumors has also received word that Apple has been delaying some iPhone 4 orders that had been carrying delivery estimates for the next few days, pushing them out to delivery next week while citing "an unexpected delay".

It remains to be seen if and how such an internal insulator would be distributed to existing iPhone owners, either on as-needed basis or through a complete recall. It is also unknown whether such a fix can simply be applied to existing iPhones or if units would need to be swapped out for replacement. Further details from Apple regarding the antenna issue are widely expected to be shared at the company's press conference scheduled for tomorrow.

Kumar's track record is relatively unknown, as he has only recently begun covering Apple. He has been quite vocal on the idea of a Verizon iPhone, claiming in January that Apple had settled on a CDMA-only chip from Qualcomm for the Verizon iPhone while reporting in late May that Apple had given manufacturing partner Pegatron/Asustek the go-ahead for Verizon iPhone production for as early as November of this year. Kumar has also reported that Apple has secured an 8-megapixel camera sensor from Sony for the 2011 iPhone, a claim that obviously has not been verified or disproved yet.

http://www.macrumors.com/2010/07/15...fix-for-iphone-4-signal-issue-being-deployed/

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

They will end up giving $30 Apple store credit towards a bumper or different case. Customers will just end up using the credit towards another apple item.

It's really not going to be something this simple. They gave original iPhone owners $200 in Apple space bucks without a press conference.

We're getting new phones.

 

[giga]

Fixed?

NEW YORK (TheStreet) -- Apple(AAPL) has a "fix" for the iPhone 4 antenna problem after all. Now the problem becomes how the company will handle the replacement or repairs of the three million phones already sold.

Apple has created "a design fix for the iPhone 4 that more adequately insulates the transceiver," said Rodman Renshaw analyst Ashok Kumar, who spoke to the company's manufacturing partners.

Apple has told its manufacturers to alter the iPhone production process to include an internal component that will insulate the defective antenna connection that has disrupted the phone's signal reception, said Kumar. This internal bumper will give Apple a non-cosmetic solution and will presumably avoid the need to change the appearance of the phone, said Kumar.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

The Street is a shitty website full of lies. They've never been right about anything related to Apple, despite throwing linkbait at the walls for years now.

Scott Moritz is a bigger shitstain on tech blogs than Michael Arrington.

 

[Mudkips]

Not to mention they just belly flopped an entire line of phones. :lol

By "entire line" you mean 2, right?

Please continue to deflect though, because this thread is clearly about Microsoft.

 

[The Elite]

Hopefully they will quickly mention how they plan to deal with the issue and then focus on launching iPhone 4 to the rest of the world.

 

[Major Williams]

Interesting take on Apple's speech here.




All in all, sounds pretty decent way of handling the media.

Very buttery smooth way that would definitely hypnotize the press.

The way that Jobs man-handles our impressions is stunning, and sad at the same time.

$50 is a bit optimistic to me though.

 

[StuBurns]

Hopefully they will quickly mention how they plan to deal with the issue and then focus on launching iPhone 4 to the rest of the world.

They should delay the worldwide roll out until everyone who wants a replacement can get one. Production is limited and they should fix the existing audience before extending it I think.

 

[Tobor]

By "entire line" you mean 2, right?

Please continue to deflect though, because this thread is clearly about Microsoft.

Yeah, an entire line, as in the kins that would have followed had the first two not been bungled beyond belief.

And I didn't bring MS up, so dont bitch at me about it.

 

[The Elite]

They should delay the worldwide roll out until everyone who wants a replacement can get one. Production is limited and they should fix the existing audience before extending it I think.

Why don't you want me to have an iPhone 4!!!!!

:lol

 

[Blackhead]

I'm not sure what you mean about the screen protectors. They responded to that by yanking them out of the Apple store. The way to do that right is to not install one.

Well that's one approach...

*changes tack*

Ok, but why now? Regarding making cases for the iPhone, I means. It's not like Jobs suddenly had an epiphany that Apple should enter the case business. They've actually made sleeves for the iPods before so cant be that Apple suddenly realized that cases can be lucrative. Why wait until this revision of the iPhone to introduce a case? You can't say for sure that the antenna problem had impact on the decision...

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Well that's one approach...

*changes tack*

Ok, but why now? Regarding making cases for the iPhone, I means. It's not like Jobs suddenly had an epiphany that Apple should enter the case business. They've actually made sleeves for the iPods before so cant be that Apple suddenly realized that cases can be lucrative. Why wait until this revision of the iPhone to introduce a case? You can't say for sure that the antenna problem had impact on the decision...

They didn't wait until this revision of the iPhone. They waited until the iPad.

 

[LCfiner]

Well that's one approach...

*changes tack*

Ok, but why now? Regarding making cases for the iPhone, I means. It's not like Jobs suddenly had an epiphany that Apple should enter the case business. They've actually made sleeves for the iPods before so cant be that Apple suddenly realized that cases can be lucrative. Why wait until this revision of the iPhone to introduce a case? You can't say for sure that the antenna problem had impact on the decision...

hey, remember iPod socks?

remember that 100 dollar crazy leather case for the ipod (that they no longer sell)? remember free vinyl sleeves for 5th gen ipods

this is not the fist time they've sold a case or cover for their portable devices. this is just the first time anyone gives a shit.

 

[Blackhead]

^^^^
but it's the first time they are make a case for an iPhone. The case only fits the iPhone 4; there is no case for the 3GS which is still on the market...

They didn't wait until this revision of the iPhone. They waited until the iPad.

Yeah, the Bloomberg article suggests that Apple knew about the antenna problem before the iPad case came out. We don't know which was on the agenda first.

 

[Mudkips]

You watch too many movies, Sax.

If Apple made a case that covered the back, would we still have all of these wacky conspiracy theories? A case is a case.

A condom is a case? A ziplock bag is a case?

If Apple made a case that covered the back we'd still have the "wacky conspiracy theories", because the simple fact is that Apple touted their antenna design as a marvel of engineering, then released an accessory case that covered them up.

The ability of whatever case Apple sells to act as a case is irrelevant. The bumper is a shitty case - the most vulnerable thing (the screen) isn't protected. The bumper is, however, a good hack to circumvent the design flaw, which happens to be the topic at hand.

Do you know enough about how antenna software works to say this with any certainty? I would withhold judgment until I heard from an expert who could speak with authority on whether or not software can fix this.

I do. Software can't fix it. We've heard from plenty of experts who have explained the fucking problem, just as I have explained it on day fucking one. The antenna is detuned. You have to readjust it's electrical length to fix it. You can do this with a variable capacitor (hardware) and software to manage it. This solution works well for calibration in fixed installations, and pretty terribly for on-the-fly adjustment with human factors in a battery powered device.

 

[Tobor]

Well that's one approach...

*changes tack*

Ok, but why now? Regarding making cases for the iPhone, I means. It's not like Jobs suddenly had an epiphany that Apple should enter the case business. They've actually made sleeves for the iPods before so cant be that Apple suddenly realized that cases can be lucrative. Why wait until this revision of the iPhone to introduce a case? You can't say for sure that the antenna problem had impact on the decision...

For one thing, they didn't wait until now, like Liu Kang said. They've obviously made a decision to be in this business full time, not like the dabbling they did before with socks and what not.

Beyond that, look at the Bumper. Its exactly the type of iPhone case they would make. Maximized profit with minimal impact to the phones design. You think they're going to stop selling cases once the issue's resolved? No chance. Bumpers were selling out on launch day, before anyone knew that they relieved the antenna issue, and the iPad case is still backordered 3 months later. If you want to be cynical, be cynical about the amount of profit in the case business.

 

[borghe]

Nice wording, but amounts to fluff. A resolution that does not suggest a slight hardware amendment is fail.

hmm... I sort of agree with you and sort of don't..

I don't agree that a hardware amendment is required. The phone works just fine with the bumper. Is it annoying? Is it totally "un-apple"? Is it amateur hour? You bet! But, it still works. a hardware amendment and voluntary recall is hardly what is needed to apease the masses here except for the most ardent anti-apple crowd.

so where do I agree with you? Well... how does apple move forward? It's great that my wife can get a $50 (assuming) gift card for a bumper or whatever. But what about when I get my iphone 4? Is it magically just going to cost $29 more now because I need the bumper to avoid this issue altogether?

I guess my point is that for those insisting that apple will appease the consumers without doing a redesign or recall, I can understand it and agree with it... but to avoid looking like they fucked up and they just don't care, they're going to need to do something for all of those millions of iPhone 4's that they hope to sell over the next 11 months.

IMHO THAT'S the key part here. I mean let's face the facts.. I know 7 people now who own iphone 4's personally, and the reception issue falls somewhere between "doesn't affect me" to "yeah, I've dropped some calls". Amongst my friends the proximity sensor is a much bigger issue. So fixing the phones that are out there now you will still probably see only a small percentage of people actually take apple up on that.. the important point for apple now is to get rid of that "Don't Buy" stigma from consumer reports... and to do that, they're going to need to "fix" the phones not yet sold... not just the 2-3M or whatever that are already on the streets.

 

[Blackhead]

For one thing, they didn't wait until now, like Liu Kang said. They've obviously made a decision to be in this business full time, not like the dabbling they did before with socks and what not.

Beyond that, look at the Bumper. Its exactly the type of iPhone case they would make. Maximized profit with minimal impact to the phones design. You think they're going to stop selling cases once the issue's resolved? No chance. Bumpers were selling out on launch day, before anyone knew that they relieved the antenna issue, and the iPad case is still backordered 3 months later. If you want to be cynical, be cynical about the amount of profit in the case business.

Which belies your point: if money is the motive, and Apple already knew about lucrative the market was, why wait until now.

Again, I'm not ruling out that money is a factor. I'm arguing that you can't use the money angle to conclusively rule out the antenna problem angle.

 

[Chairman85]

Again, I'm not ruling out that money is a factor. I'm arguing that you can't use the money angle to conclusively rule out the antenna problem angle.

This.

 

[borghe]

Again, I'm not ruling out that money is a factor. I'm arguing that you can't use the money angle to conclusively rule out the antenna problem angle.

both assumptions are as equally unfounded and based in separate conspiracies. neither seems more plausible than the other without actually wanting one to be true.

 

[dyls]

I can't decide if I would take part in a voluntary recall. One one hand, I got a nick in the antenna when my phone slipped off my nightstand because it is the slipperiest fucking phone ever. On the other hand, I don't really have any signal problem, nor do I have the sensor problem and don't want to get a replacement that does.

 

[Tobor]

Which belies your point: if money is the motive, and Apple already knew about lucrative the market was, why wait until now.

Again, I'm not ruling out that money is a factor. I'm arguing that you can't use the money angle to conclusively rule out the antenna problem angle.

I'm not conclusively ruling it out, it's just highly unlikely in my opinion, for all the reasons stated.

 

[neojubei]

Why don't you want me to have an iPhone 4!!!!!

:lol

Even Doctor Who needs an iPhone *hugs doctor who*

*Holds up iPhone 4* "Doctor! Can you sonic me?" "I need to boost the signal"

 

[Tobor]

4.01 is apparently out, by the way.