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[Haggard]

Apple`s marketing is as vague as ever.....
"industry benchmarks"...ofc we`re not telling you which exactly

Apple`s only cooking with water like everyone else. And as always they will have industry leading performance/efficiency in everything thats 100% vertically integrated/sponsored and suck at everything else.

if they want to get into console gaming for the next gen they may easily win as long as they don't overcharge their products and have stupid practices.

It´s Apple we are talking about.....overcharging for their products and imprisoning their customers into their ecosystem is their business model.

 

[RoboFu]

You guys realize this is only the SECOND version of the M1. its very impressive.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

I appreciate it but much like Intel hype, don't believe it until you see it.

 

[ethomaz]

Where is the benchmarks?

TFs doesn’t mean a GPU is powerful.

 

[kuncol02]

M1 is such an amazing little chip. They should hurry up making everything native though. Thats my only gripe with M1 Macs right now (even though emulation works surprisingly good most of the time).

Little? M1 Max is bigger that PS4 SOC and has more than 4 times more transistors.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

Apple`s marketing is as vague as ever.....
"industry benchmarks"...ofc we`re not telling you which exactly

Apple`s only cooking with water like everyone else. And as always they will have industry leading performance/efficiency in everything thats 100% vertically integrated/sponsored and suck at everything else.

So many fail to realize this. M1 is a great chip. It excels for what it was made for, but it falls flat in other regards. When it first came out, tech reviewers were hyping it up, making it seem like it's better than every single processor out there, for all tasks at hand. This wasn't the case at all.

 

[ripeavocado]

It´s Apple we are talking about.....overcharging for their products and imprisoning their customers into their ecosystem is their business model.

I know but is also Nintendo's business model and they are quite successful with it.

 

[HTK]

yeah sure if you want to play games then your $3500 is better put into a PC.

these laptops are not aimed at people who want to play games. just like you might go spend $3500 on a PC for gaming there are people out there who would pay $3500 for a computer that they can use to improve their coding, rendering, or music production performance. i'm in the UK and the 16" macbook pro tops out at £5,900. for someone who makes £200-250 a day it quickly pays for itself. earning £200/day in a 5 day week it'd pay itself off in about a month and a half. when you need a tool for your job you want something high quality that will get the job done easier/faster, right?

Are you saying PC doesn't have equivalent software for professionals? I mean I get what you're saying, I'm not a laptop guy myself I have a desk with a 3 monitor setup but I don't do much productivity outside the powerpoints, office and even most of those are done in Google Drive.

 

[Kokoloko85]

Hopefully they become more gaming friendly

 

[Makoto-Yuki]

Are you saying PC doesn't have equivalent software for professionals? I mean I get what you're saying, I'm not a laptop guy myself I have a desk with a 3 monitor setup but I don't do much productivity outside the powerpoints, office and even most of those are done in Google Drive.

definitely not. PC has loads of great software. but Mac OS has some exclusive software. for example, Logic Pro (music production) and Final Cut (movie/tv). both them are heavily used in their respective industry. It's alright to say you could just go use something like Pro Tools/FL or Premiere/DaVinci and you could do that if you're working solo or doing it as a hobby but if you're working as a team then you might not really have the choice of what software you use.

 

[ZywyPL]

What Apple is doing is nothing short of but amazing, sadly tho their tech is tied up to their ecosystem, hence pretty much non-existent to me.

 

[Makoto-Yuki]

It's a great chip but who the fuck is doing any serious gaming on a macbook?

i get your point and i agree with it but out of curiosity i had a look at Steam stats.

2.47% of Steam users are playing on some kind of Mac so that's about 632,336 people. For comparison, there are ~268,807 people who have Steam installed on Linux. The rest are on Windows with 4.81% (1,231,392) on Windows 7 which is more than MacOS/Linux combined and Windows 10 where 90.51% (23,171,166) of people play.

to go a bit deeper. Macbook Pro is most popular device for Mac users at 49.48%. So that's 312,879 people who have a MacBook Pro. Next up is the Macbook Air at 31.22% so that's 197,415. There are 89,222 with a standard desktop iMac who play games.

 

[HTK]

definitely not. PC has loads of great software. but Mac OS has some exclusive software. for example, Logic Pro (music production) and Final Cut (movie/tv). both them are heavily used in their respective industry. It's alright to say you could just go use something like Pro Tools/FL or Premiere/DaVinci and you could do that if you're working solo or doing it as a hobby but if you're working as a team then you might not really have the choice of what software you use.

Yeah that's very true. Kind of like Microsoft Outlook in the business world is a standard for the most part. I mean they are great machines I'm just not the right audience, now the Mac Mini always has potential to be on my desk.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

This graph is so fake lol, a high-end PC at just ~150W? Maybe if you take out the CPU and GPU you'll hit that power usage.


What Apple is doing is nothing short of but amazing, sadly tho their tech is tied up to their ecosystem, hence pretty much non-existent to me.

It says "high end PC laptop graphics". This means it's only the laptop GPU.

 

[Makoto-Yuki]

This graph is so fake lol, a high-end PC at just ~150W? Maybe if you take out the CPU and GPU you'll hit that power usage.


What Apple is doing is nothing short of but amazing, sadly tho their tech is tied up to their ecosystem, hence pretty much non-existent to me.

"laptop graphics". they aren't talking about a desktop PC with full fat cpu/gpu.

 

[AJUMP23]

It will run clicking games better than anything else.

 

[ZywyPL]

It says "high end PC laptop graphics". This means it's only the laptop GPU.

en't talking about a desktop PC with full fat cpu/gpu.

Ups, my bad.

 

[Makoto-Yuki]

I'm curious to see how they handle gaming on Windows through emulation. it's a shame you can't do bootcamp anymore (as far as i know)

 

[mrBarrelNut]

Apple has almost exclusive access to TSMC 5nm node while AMD is still using 7nm process.

M1 Max has is a big 432mm2 chip that has 57 billion transistors using 5nm node.
Xbox Series X SOC is a 360mm2 chip that has 15.3 billion transistors using 7nm node.

M1 Max will be very expensive to manufacture. And since it's bigger than XSX SOC and using smaller and newer process, it bloody well should have better performance!

 

[kyliethicc]

They're damn cool chips, despite the limited gaming capabilities of MacOS.

Like look at this shit

AMD Ryzen 9 5950X + Nvidia RTX 3090 = ~ 39 billion transistors ... in a 500 W desktop

Apple MacBook Pro M1 Max SoC = 57 billion transistors ... in a 100 W laptop

 

[Topher]

On a gaming website, about games, an thread about the apple m1 was posted. Inside that thread was conversations about games running on this chip. Sure, it might not be the intention for games, but you'd be a fool to not think people are going to discuss or even attempt to play games on this. Otherwise, we wouldn't be having this conversation now.

I didn't say it shouldn't be discussed. I was providing some context as to what this laptop was designed to do. If someone came here trying to talk about Nvidia's Quadro GPUs in gaming terms, I'm pretty sure the same point would be made. But yeah, for kicks I installed Shadow of the Tomb Raider on my M1 Mac just to see how the benchmark would run. I was actually surprised how well it did as it isn't native, but it is still light years away from being a gaming option.

And it's kinda crazy to compare it to other GPU's that are literally used for gaming 90% of the time. Especially with rumors of a gaming console potentially coming out. We both commented on that article as well.

Think my only contribution to that article was a joke about Apple deploying the Fruit of the Loom guys against Mario and Luigi. But yeah, the craziness of comparing this to dedicated gaming GPUs is my point exactly.

 

[vkbest]

Real game performance comparisions between PS5 and Series X shown us that teraflops alone aren't a good reference to get an idea of real performance. We'll have to wait to see proper benchmarks and in-game comparisions.

That is the difficult part, there are few games ported to Mac, the most are running emulating X86 (Rosetta) and usually ported by third party companies and not the original. I don't think there are optimized games on Mac.

 

[Great Hair]

Finally i can play Sea of Thieves at ULTRA gfx, as initially intended.

 

[th4tguy]

What a shame there are barely any games to make use of it though. Apple are still not doing enough to encourage developers to port AAA titles.

I think the idea for Apple is scalability. Everything running on M1 processors can run Iphone/ Ipad apps natively.
As M1 takes over the market (mac market), devs can easily develop for mac as the primary platform and scale down to ipad and iphone.
This way, you will see more AAA type games. Similar to development model for Switch.
It feels much more ambitious than the Switch and I couldn't begin to determine if it's a good plan or not, but that seems to be how they are looking at it.

 

[nbkicker]

Yet to have this performance your looking at £3k+ for a laptop, i can see in the future the way apple coming out with more powerful hardware every yr they gonna be up there, but hardly any of the top game games developers develop for mac etx, these machines are made for video editors, programmers, 3d etc, as for apple creating a console it will never happen, just look at the price of apple products, plus apple arcade is laughable it got a handful of games which where ok to play for 5-10min

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Cool. It'll be great for all those games on mac... oh wait

 

[GreatnessRD]

What Apple is doing is nothing short of but amazing, sadly tho their tech is tied up to their ecosystem, hence pretty much non-existent to me.

Pretty much this. I don't see how people are not paying attention with what Apple were able to do with the M1 chips on ARM. But its also non-existent to me as well because I don't use their products either. Doesn't mean I gotta be a hater to see how efficient their tech is looking to become on ARM.

 

[Topher]

Apple wrote the book on spin…Sony just copied it

just chiming in to say M1 chip support on most mainstream apps is pretty shitty outside of the marketing deals Apple has

u buy an M1 mac and u will quickly hate your decision

What mainstream apps have you had issues with? I’m running Visual Studio 2019 in Rosetta 2. Not mainstream but much more intensive than most. And I’m pretty sure MS Office apps are running natively now. So yeah, what problems have you had?

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

As always ignore the manufacturer’s claims and wait for benchmarks.

 

[Insane Metal]

They're damn cool chips, despite the limited gaming capabilities of MacOS.

Like look at this shit

AMD Ryzen 9 5950X + Nvidia RTX 3090 = ~ 39 billion transistors ... in a 500 W desktop

Apple MacBook Pro M1 Max SoC = 57 billion transistors ... in a sub-100 W laptop

Yes the engineering behind that piece of silicon sure is amazing. Then again, Apple has basically endless money to use in R&D...

 

[Leo9]

Apple`s marketing is as vague as ever.....
"industry benchmarks"...ofc we`re not telling you which exactly

Apple`s only cooking with water like everyone else. And as always they will have industry leading performance/efficiency in everything thats 100% vertically integrated/sponsored and suck at everything else.


It´s Apple we are talking about.....overcharging for their products and imprisoning their customers into their ecosystem is their business model.

Apple isn't really cooking with water like everyone else though. Apple is shipping an SoC with 57 billion transistors using TSMC's N5P node, by far the best node available today. M1 Max should be around 380mm^2, which is a huge SoC on such a dense node. CPU performance will be much higher compared to PS5 (of course). GPU is a lot harder to compare. Efficency is on another planet: Apple's SoCs are wide and "slow", PS5 is using a narrow and fast approach (less expensive but much more power hungry).
AMD is still using TSMC's older N7 node. Nvdia is using the even less advanced Samsung's "8nm" node.

 

[Davevil]

They're also super-over-priced...so who cares?

 

[kyliethicc]

Yes the engineering behind that piece of silicon sure is amazing. Then again, Apple has basically endless money to use in R&D...

Exactly. They have no excuse not to produce the best tech. They have practically unlimited resources, and they get first access to the best nodes in the world from the top fab on Earth - TSMC.

 

[Haggard]

Apple isn't really cooking with water like everyone else though. Apple is shipping an SoC with 57 billion transistors using TSMC's N5P node, by far the best node available today. M1 Max should be around 380mm^2, which is a huge SoC on such a dense node. CPU performance will be much higher compared to PS5 (of course). GPU is a lot harder to compare. Efficency is on another planet: Apple's SoCs are wide and "slow", PS5 is using a narrow and fast approach (less expensive but much more power hungry).
AMD is still using TSMC's older N7 node. Nvdia is using the even less advanced Samsung's "8nm" node.

Sorry, but that`s just a lot of hogwash to summarize: "new electronics product is new"
Nothing about Apple`s approach is revolutionary or especially inventive. It`s the usual evolutionary approach using the newest tech available.

 

[GHG]

i get your point and i agree with it but out of curiosity i had a look at Steam stats.

2.47% of Steam users are playing on some kind of Mac so that's about 632,336 people. For comparison, there are ~268,807 people who have Steam installed on Linux. The rest are on Windows with 4.81% (1,231,392) on Windows 7 which is more than MacOS/Linux combined and Windows 10 where 90.51% (23,171,166) of people play.

to go a bit deeper. Macbook Pro is most popular device for Mac users at 49.48%. So that's 312,879 people who have a MacBook Pro. Next up is the Macbook Air at 31.22% so that's 197,415. There are 89,222 with a standard desktop iMac who play games.

Interesting stats. I'd like to know what games these people have installed though since that will give us a better indication of what the gaming demographic is like on mac. When I had my 27 Inch mac I had steam installed but never played anything on it other than to try out a couple of games to see how they perform vs my windows PC.

 

[nocsi]

What mainstream apps have you had issues with? I’m running Visual Studio 2019 in Rosetta 2. Not mainstream but much more intensive than most. And I’m pretty sure MS Office apps are running natively now. So yeah, what problems have you had?

I’m a developer and I never had much problems with M1. Everything is native now (golang, rust, erlang, etc). The people whining in this thread are consumers and generally lack the ability to foresee into the future. Even Microsoft is working on dumping x86 desktops and throwing windows into the cloud. But like usual, gaffers will drop bullshit about apple and run. The past year of development on ARM has been amazing and it’s refreshingly efficient.

 

[Great Hair]

Cool. It'll be great for all those games on mac... oh wait

Nintendo enters the discord: Hello Timmy! Here are the geimus!
Apple: Domo Arigato, Mr. Reggie Fill an Anime
Microsoft Nutella joins discord: "HEY! Can we add geimpassu on your store plis?!" WE* all will benefit from this, we has 25mill. zombies enjoying See of Heaves. We can monetize them! TIMMY!!
Apple: We good man, we has Fartnigh! And lots other shite. We generate over $10bill. annually.
Microsoft leaves the discord disgruntled
Microsoft bing searches Sony discord, joins Sony Secret Discordo: "HEY JIMMY!"

 

[TheBomb]

 

[Topher]

I’m a developer and I never had much problems with M1. Everything is native now (golang, rust, erlang, etc). The people whining in this thread are consumers and generally lack the ability to foresee into the future. Even Microsoft is working on dumping x86 desktops and throwing windows into the cloud. But like usual, gaffers will drop bullshit about apple and run. The past year of development on ARM has been amazing and it’s refreshingly efficient.

I'm really thankful Microsoft fully embraced Mac from a developer standpoint. I've been playing around with Xamarin app dev lately. Runs great on M1 MacBook.

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

Great. Can't wait to play Flappy Birds on it.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

I’m a developer and I never had much problems with M1. Everything is native now (golang, rust, erlang, etc). The people whining in this thread are consumers and generally lack the ability to foresee into the future. Even Microsoft is working on dumping x86 desktops and throwing windows into the cloud. But like usual, gaffers will drop bullshit about apple and run. The past year of development on ARM has been amazing and it’s refreshingly efficient.

So you believe gaming in the foreseeable future will suddenly switch to ARM like you are portraying? ARM is definitely making huge strides lately, and I can see them replace x86, for most tasks except for gaming. I don't see that happening for some time, and even when it starts, it'll be a while for the attachment rate to turn over. Like several years at the minimum.

 

[kuncol02]

They're damn cool chips, despite the limited gaming capabilities of MacOS.

Like look at this shit

AMD Ryzen 9 5950X + Nvidia RTX 3090 = ~ 39 billion transistors ... in a 500 W desktop

Apple MacBook Pro M1 Max SoC = 57 billion transistors ... in a 100 W laptop

With half of frequency and in smaller node.

 

[Kdad]

The 14" Macbook Pro with 512gb ssd and don't remember what else. Is the cheapest 14" and cheapest computer that let you configure with the M1 Max. It cost around $2900 and $3100 with taxes in FL.

So why are we making a comparison again?

 

[IntentionalPun]

If they threw this in a mac mini the comparison would make more sense; but it would probably cost $1200.

 

[nocsi]

I'm really thankful Microsoft fully embraced Mac from a developer standpoint. I've been playing around with Xamarin app dev lately. Runs great on M1 MacBook.

Lol dude. Whenever I need extended documentation on Apple APIs, I look at Microsoft’s documentation of it. Somehow Microsoft documents apples stuff better than they do

So you believe gaming in the foreseeable future will suddenly switch to ARM like you are portraying? ARM is definitely making huge strides lately, and I can see them replace x86, for most tasks except for gaming. I don't see that happening for some time, and even when it starts, it'll be a while for the attachment rate to turn over. Like several years at the minimum.

The writing is already on the wall. It's so obvious to developers that native x86 doesn't offer anything. Shit on mobile gaming all you want but ARM processors will serve as the core for ubiquitous computing. When you're laying in bed fapping to VR porn and playing whatever game on your VR/AR headset - it'll be powered by an efficient ARM processor, not a shitty x86. ARM already surrounds you.

But at the end of the day. Apple doesn't give a shit what gamer's opinions are. They're building out this chipset and racking up the performance for their own needs. It's not gaming they're pursuing.

 

[10101]

It's a great chip but who the fuck is doing any serious gaming on a macbook?

Was my first thought too.

I love my M1 MacBook, it’s really good. But gaming on it? Nah.

Edit: To add, that’s not to say I would be against it if it became a viable option, but it needs to be better supported than it currently is.

 

[IntentionalPun]

The GPU perf is probably being touted because MacBook Pros are developer machines; including iOS game developers. Also GPU accelerated video processing and whatnot.

I'm guessing at least; I honestly don't know why I'd personally care about GPU perf.. I may be getting one of these for work, and there isn't much to do on them gaming wise.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

That gives me hope for an Apple console to lend... I just wonder how they will handle storage updates.

Right now they charge 300$ to go from 512GB to 1TB in their laptops... Even MS offers a WAY better deal with their upgrade cards.

 

[Yoda]

It' also costs 5 times as much? And doesn't have a gave dev ecosystem to make sure of the hardware. Still an impressive chip regardless.

 

[Spukc]

i still can't believe the same old lemmings cry that apple is overpriced.
look at the macbook m1.. that is a great deal