-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
[Digital Foundry] New PS5 Pro GPU details emerge - including a 2.35GHz max boost clock
- Thread starter Lunatic_Gamer
- Start date
- News Hardware Platform
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I guess the Slampigassador Program is still on for select balding middle-aged children.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
I actually get the gist of his Tweet its just the manner of how he goes about it, but he knows what he is doing farming engagement and clicks
Ashamam
Member
Stinks of desperation as the wars come to an end. Can’t wait for these content creators to fade into irrelevancy.
Lysandros
Member
I don't remember him showing Xbox consoles any particular disdain, but for Sony ones i agree wholeheartedly, he showed/showing plenty. He praised XSX in the past and was rooting for it, he is just bitter that it couldn't crash PS5 in performance in the long run like he predicted.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
For my main TV in my main living room full screen brightness is king for 90% of my content consuming, that is the most impactful to me for most stuff.
Omnipunctual Godot
Gold Member
digital_ghost
Member
Vyse
Gold Member
Same.
nnytk
Member
Amen
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Ok since my last post was thoroughly mocked and derided allow me to try to explain one more time ...I wasn't referring to all developers choosing to take the easy approach to Pro patches but Sony studios, as demonstrated by some of Cerny's comments and of course the actual exclusives that are getting enhanced.
It's a hypothesis that may explain why in the world Sony games are taking existing Performance modes instead of Fidelity modes, to then apply PSSR to. Again, a few of the discerning Gaffers have also pointed out this rather bizarre and disappointining decision. I'm not the only person who's coming up with "conspiracy theories".
It's a fact, according to DF and others that most Sony Pro enhanced are using downgraded (compared to existing Fidelity mode) "perf" profiles. This makes no sense to do when you have a console that's powerful enough to use Fidelity modes (obviously, they'd need to drop whatever existing upscaling first as well as drop the resolution prior to upscaling), but at least we would have true uncompromised graphical settings instead of stripped dowm "Perf mode" settings!
I can't believe some of you aren't grasping this and are telling me I don't understand the tech or the process. Horizon, Lou2, GT7, and Spiderman 2 are all using Perf modes as their base. Some of you had some feeble attempts to tell me why im wrong, the only one with merit was gt7 using RT reflections but that's still added on top of Perf mode.
It makes the most sense that things are just as I explained: Sony wants to maintain the system of Perf vs Fidelity and can't be having the Pro enhanced mode be better than the 30 fps Fidelity mode ...doing it properly by taking Fidelity>dropping native res> applying PSSR makes things too "messy" and requirres more effort ...maybe a game like LoU2 can't maintain 60 fps using Fidelity as the base but I highly doubt it.
Other than justifications im seeing on Sony's behalf STILL nobody has explained why this makes any sense. It definitely sucks though as this console is supposed to be about NOT having to make these compromises.
It's a hypothesis that may explain why in the world Sony games are taking existing Performance modes instead of Fidelity modes, to then apply PSSR to. Again, a few of the discerning Gaffers have also pointed out this rather bizarre and disappointining decision. I'm not the only person who's coming up with "conspiracy theories".
It's a fact, according to DF and others that most Sony Pro enhanced are using downgraded (compared to existing Fidelity mode) "perf" profiles. This makes no sense to do when you have a console that's powerful enough to use Fidelity modes (obviously, they'd need to drop whatever existing upscaling first as well as drop the resolution prior to upscaling), but at least we would have true uncompromised graphical settings instead of stripped dowm "Perf mode" settings!
I can't believe some of you aren't grasping this and are telling me I don't understand the tech or the process. Horizon, Lou2, GT7, and Spiderman 2 are all using Perf modes as their base. Some of you had some feeble attempts to tell me why im wrong, the only one with merit was gt7 using RT reflections but that's still added on top of Perf mode.
It makes the most sense that things are just as I explained: Sony wants to maintain the system of Perf vs Fidelity and can't be having the Pro enhanced mode be better than the 30 fps Fidelity mode ...doing it properly by taking Fidelity>dropping native res> applying PSSR makes things too "messy" and requirres more effort ...maybe a game like LoU2 can't maintain 60 fps using Fidelity as the base but I highly doubt it.
Other than justifications im seeing on Sony's behalf STILL nobody has explained why this makes any sense. It definitely sucks though as this console is supposed to be about NOT having to make these compromises.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
It was triggering to come here looking fpr Pro discussion and get 2 whole pages arguing over TV's
DaleinCalgary
Member
Okay who fucked this thread with TV talk.
Gamerguy84
Member
In 25 days it will be hooked up and checking it out in person.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
the problem with the 45% boost to raw gpu power is that even if they use pssr, they dont have much else left to increase settings or resolution. thats why they are all using the performance modes just switching out pssr. tlou2 is the only one using fidelity mode and thats a last gen game.
i am really interested in seeing what Ubisoft Massive, Bloober and Game Science do with the PS5 Pro. That would be the main indication of whether or not third parties follow the sony first party model. the ps5 pro has way better rt capabilities and those games use it far more than sony exclusives sans insomniac's ps5 titles. I think avatar which already runs at 40 fps in fidelity mode on ps5 using fsr2 can easily run at 60 fps with that 45% boost in raw gpu power and 100% boost in rt capabilities. no need to worry about the pssr hit on gpu because these games are already using fsr2 so all that gpu power can go into increasing the framerate.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Honestly, it's a waste of time to talk about Alex I wish they would just exclude him from console discussions he's a bad actor but at least the others have come around and I don't agree that Oliver was trashing the idea he was literally the only one trying to have a measured conversation because he likes the idea of mid-gen consoles I blame the team around him beating him over the head with constant negativity. I'll give you a perfect example, Oliver stated last year that the PS5 Pro could be awesome and provide benefits for PS6 in terms of backwards compatibility but they didn't expound on that argument because all they wanted to do was think negatively about it. Fast forward to this year, Richard reads a supporter's question about how the Pro could mean better backwards compatibility for the PS6 and suddenly he has a eureka moment and even writes an article about it
Like I said, even excluding Alex, I've seen them all take shots at the PS5 Pro. That their tune is shifting closer to launch doesn't absolve them of their contributions to the narrative that this wasn't worth it or that the price was crazy.
If you look at the PS5 Pro on the merits, it was always a no brainer, not just as a console, but what it meant for the PS6 and a potential handheld.
Similarly DF shit on Cerny regarding the road to ps5 and they've slowly had to retract their statements over the last 4 years. They never learn or maybe its about generating the most views as they can.
Negativity draws views from the right people before launch and then they'll milk the PS5 Pro post launch.
Wolfpact1983
Member
This thread
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
But these Sony games that are almost native 4k in Fidelity mode like LoU2 should be able to drop resolution to 1200-1440p then use PSSR to get back up to 4k and hit 60 fps or else what makes this console anything other than a disappointment? Going from performance mode>performance mode + pssr is a sad, sad result ...it's going to give you better image quality than the existing Perf mode but with graphics inferior to what we've been playing at 40 fps already ...
Btw are you sure LoU2 is using its Fidelity mode? I thought Oliver said that one was Performance ...some people trying to say Perf and Fidelity in LoU2 are the same settings outside of resolution but i don't believe that to be true either.
Why would Sony be so foolish as to make a system that doesn't have enough power to achieve LoU2 level vusuals in Fidelity at 60 fps using PSSR it's retarded for $800 console ..i can understand for current gen games this being difficult to achieve but not cross gen games running at native 4k ...
Either ps5 pro is weak or Sony wasn't lying when they said "75% of gamers choose Performance mode and we wanted to give them that but with better iq" ...completely out of touch with the fact that hardcore gamers buying the Pro don't want to have reduced settings.
Im telling you I know how Sony thinks. They think they can slap PSSR onto performance mode and call it a day and that people won't care ....look at the posts here- Sony's right.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Alex for DF is out there activating PCMR to drive hate towards developers for bad PC ports rather than buying a PS5 Pro.
What Alex and PCMR doesn't want to talk about is piracy and a lack of people buying games at full price. Putting more resources towards better optimized PC ports really isn't a priority for developers.
It's funny that people will brag about PC games being cheaper, but don't recognize there is a trade off in that in terms of profitability for the developer...
Console games sell significantly more copies at launch and at full price, there's significantly less piracy, and you can optimize against a specific configuration...
PCs have advantages and consoles have advantages. PCs have disadvantages and consoles have disadvantages. Being able to discuss this openly and honestly requires a maturity not seen in social media...
What Alex and PCMR doesn't want to talk about is piracy and a lack of people buying games at full price. Putting more resources towards better optimized PC ports really isn't a priority for developers.
It's funny that people will brag about PC games being cheaper, but don't recognize there is a trade off in that in terms of profitability for the developer...
Console games sell significantly more copies at launch and at full price, there's significantly less piracy, and you can optimize against a specific configuration...
PCs have advantages and consoles have advantages. PCs have disadvantages and consoles have disadvantages. Being able to discuss this openly and honestly requires a maturity not seen in social media...
Tchu-Espresso
likes mayo on everthing and can't dance
nonsense. The cost of PSSR is not that high.
Zathalus
Member
Complaining about bad ports on twitter is not the same as asking to throw hate at a developer. Buying a PS5 Pro is not really a good solution either for somebody who games on PC, nor would it be a good solution telling a console gamer to just buy a PC. Its not asking to debate the merits of PC vs console gaming, but to strengthen feedback that more care should be taken into making good PC versions of games.
Piracy, cheap games, consoles selling more at launch, these arguments are all debunked nonsense. Games sell exceedingly well on PC, as Capcom and Activision have already stated with over half of all revenue coming from PC. Most games are sold directly on Steam, not from key resellers. The numbers for Elden Ring, Black Myth, Hogwarts Legacy, Baldurs Gate 3, Cyberpunk 2077, Helldivers 2, and Monster Hunter clearly show that PC games can sell absolutely absurd numbers at launch. Even recent relatively niche titles like Metaphor have 40%+ of all sold numbers at launch being on PC.
PaintTinJr
Member
The simple answer is that only on potato PC is it necessary to brute force from 30 to 60fps.
Starting with a mode that is optimised - memory use, CPU use, GPU - for 60fps adding PSSR and then looking at the profiler to see what spare resources per 16.7ms are available is just a far more intelligent way to do things; because the faster the frame-rate the more caches become the bottleneck and the harder it becomes to saturate compute in the CPU and GPU, so knowing exactly how long an fx takes allows developers to effectively bin-pack the empty space in the profiler allowing them to easily stay at 60fps and ramp up the fx.
Loxus
Member
We got all the info we could get right now, so I don't see what's the problem with going a little off track.
Ain't much to discuss around the PS5 Pro right now. Any in depth updates going to happen around the release date.
Then after it releases, we can look forward to the teardown, then the SoC die shot.
Radical_3d
Member
You guys are ruining a perfectly fine TV thread with your fps and resolution discussion.
Felessan
Member
It's not a 45% boost in raw GPU power.
Raw power should be ~66% boost. 45% is an estimated actual final performance increase
Cannot wait for the teardown and SoC die shot.
Physiognomonics
Member
For FF7 the game now has as virtually locked framerate at 60fps instead of drops to 40s and that's during the alpha heavy effects (pure raster) showing the increase of performance (~50%) is still there even using PSSR.
Who knows what performance gains the others games are having as they are capped to 60fps. We'll know more in the uncapped 120fps modes but I can already see some games having way more than 45% better performance on top of AI upscaling. But most developers will eventually add RT effects I think.
Last edited:
PaintTinJr
Member
But are they bad ports or just appropriately costed testing on a bad platform in which a jack of all trades OS with inferior graphics/CPU/IO/memory SDKs are wrappering a million configs from a AMD 4700s +RTX4090, an Intel 13900K + RX6300M all the way to a Ryzen 9 7950X3D + RTX4090. It is a platform that gives them nothing to aim at, other than their idea of minimum spec running at 30fps Low, recommended Spec running 60fps high and best spec running 60fps ultra.
So much extra work for a much higher risk platform that doesn't bring the day 1 money to fund the AAA development and yet needs x20 the testing to assess single channel DDR5 memory and NVME setup all the way down to 3 channel DDR2 with HDD, and with variations of CPU/GPU as already mentioned and with older drivers, new drivers etc, Windows 8, 8.1, 10, 11 to name just a fraction of the variety, that even the mighty optimisation king Carmack found too much when Rage released with issues on various semi popular PC setups but was flawless on PS3/360 against his intended targets.
Last edited:
Some posters here obviously not follow the pro hand on previews from most medias especially digital foundry. Most pro games do not upscales from performance mode.
Sure, sony first party could have done much better, but I believe this is time constraints issue mostly.
F1 go beyond the fidelity mode with additional RTS, and it look substantially better.
GT7 add RT reflections which only currency available in replay mode. It also add an 8k upscale mode. These mode go beyond the fidelity mode.
Spider-man 2 uses the fidelity mode.
Demon Souls adds additional higher setting like contact shadow which does not present in the fidelity mode.
The crew add fidelity mode setting for the
pro.
Dragon dogma look better than the fidelity mode and run much better than the performance mode.
horizon image quality especially stability look to be a big step up from the fidelity mode. They also add higher quality post processing with improve skin shader.
Dragon age adds RTAO in the pro performance mode. The ps5 fidelity mode seems to run at 1080p according to Alex. Image quality wise, I presume the pro will look substantially better.
Ratchet keeps the high internal resolution of the fidelity mode but the graphic setting of the performance mode. The only reason I can think of is image quality. Ratchet is a game where edge aliasing is more visible than most games, so dev chose higher internal res over graphic to minimize image quality issue.
The only odd game I see without much improvement in term of graphic setting is TLOU2. I think Oliver states that only pop in separate performance and quality so you aren't missing much.
Keep in mind most of these games image quality will look better than the fidelity mode especially the one without much graphic setting improvements like FF7 and TLOU2.
Sure, sony first party could have done much better, but I believe this is time constraints issue mostly.
F1 go beyond the fidelity mode with additional RTS, and it look substantially better.
GT7 add RT reflections which only currency available in replay mode. It also add an 8k upscale mode. These mode go beyond the fidelity mode.
Spider-man 2 uses the fidelity mode.
Demon Souls adds additional higher setting like contact shadow which does not present in the fidelity mode.
The crew add fidelity mode setting for the
pro.
Dragon dogma look better than the fidelity mode and run much better than the performance mode.
horizon image quality especially stability look to be a big step up from the fidelity mode. They also add higher quality post processing with improve skin shader.
Dragon age adds RTAO in the pro performance mode. The ps5 fidelity mode seems to run at 1080p according to Alex. Image quality wise, I presume the pro will look substantially better.
Ratchet keeps the high internal resolution of the fidelity mode but the graphic setting of the performance mode. The only reason I can think of is image quality. Ratchet is a game where edge aliasing is more visible than most games, so dev chose higher internal res over graphic to minimize image quality issue.
The only odd game I see without much improvement in term of graphic setting is TLOU2. I think Oliver states that only pop in separate performance and quality so you aren't missing much.
Keep in mind most of these games image quality will look better than the fidelity mode especially the one without much graphic setting improvements like FF7 and TLOU2.
Last edited:
Zathalus
Member
It is bad ports, because the issues occur on all PCs no matter the configuration so thus it is not configuration dependent. The engine in this case (UE5) has known fixes for traversal and shader stutter. Most new UE5 games have mostly or fully resolved the shader stutter issue, but traversal stutters are still a problem. Not just on PC, PS5 and Xbox still have traversal stutters with various UE5 games. Some UE5 games are basically flawless on both PC and PS5 in terms of stutter, so it is certainly a developer/engine issue in this case. Lords of the Fallen was terrible on basically every platform at launch with stutters and even full on multi second pauses on consoles.
As for funding on day one I'm not sure what you mean? PC sales for a number of AAA and AA games have been extremely strong these past 4 years.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
The price is still crazy, so I’m not sure what you mean here. Nobody thinks the price is good even in light of the improvements. You say yourself that it’s "not worth it” to invest in doing proper ports. Kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy that the ports will turn out bad.
Huh, yes? Why should we tolerate bad ports? Will the Pro make them vanish? So why would anyone gaming on PC drive buyers towards the Pro, wtf?
Yet your post is ranting about how much PC sucks, is full of pirates, and not profitable enough. The cognitive dissonance with some of you is something else.
What kind of question is this? If they don’t put in the resources needed and we end up with duds, they’re bad ports. To us consumers, the means hardly matter, it’s the ends that do. I also love how you guys shill so hard for a platform that you side with the corporations delivering shoddy products to paying customers and are seriously going back to the "PC doesn’t bring money," and "PC is a pirate’s haven". Seriously? We have fucking paying customers on PC and these days, there are comically more of them than there are on Xbox, yet you lot side with the publishers fucking them over with garbage ports because the money they fork over isn’t worth the effort? Then why sell it to them in the first place? Not that any of that is true anyway, PC makes a lot of money, which is why so many devs/publishers who had previously snubbed it are shifting their focus towards it.
Last edited:
Crispy Gamer
Member
Gamestop with the false advertisement 
Crispy Gamer
Member
Yea the price definitely shocked me but it didn't take me long to realize it's actually not a bad price it's essentially $150 more than a base digital PS5 when adding an extra 1TB SSD and that's something I don't hear the media talking about. Asking prospective buyers if they would spend an extra $150 for a massive upgrade in performance changes the whole conversation I would think
I don't usually comment on these sorts of threads, however it seems almost everyone has missed the meaning of '45% more rendering performance'. That means 45% more rasterization - mostly rendering performance, not just 45% more performance. Memory bandwith is the limiting factor with that particular aspect but obviously there is a lot more to the total performance upshift!
Sony hasn't provided any official technical specs yetGamestop with the false advertisement
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
Kings Field
Member
Me coming into this thread and not knowing what a raterization or compressed double teraflips even is:
