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April Wrasslin |OT| WrassleMania Sucked

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DKehoe

Member
Plywood said:
Whats the watch about? Also WWE doesn't seem to mind Ric wrestling in TNA? Can't watch video, atm.
After Ric wrestled his "last" match against Shawn, Shawn bought them matching watches.
 

DonasaurusRex

Online Ho Champ
Mr. Sam said:
I see a lot of criticisms for Cena on the internet. Some I find valid, some I find just plain stupid; hate for the sake of it.

The valid ones:
  • His selling. A friend of mine put it pretty humorously, "Cena's got two types of selling - dead fish and angry bear."
  • The fact that he's been a babyface for the last, I dunno, seven years? Repetition invariably makes things boring.
  • That purple shirt. Jesus Christ, that thing's an eyesore.
  • His promos skills seem to have waned in the last few years.

The stupid ones:
  • "He only knows five moves", or any variation. Every wrestler worth their salt has certain signature moves and a finishing sequence. This is not a phenomena unique to John Cena by a long shot.
  • He doesn't have good matches. He does, and they're not by accident either. I could probably make a list but I imagine I'd be met simply by "No, that was rubbish - not enough German suplexes" or "X, Y or Z carried him to that match." How Cena's met by this criticism more than Triple "I stunk out the main event of WrestleMania worse than a week old fish" H is beyond me.
  • His promos aren't always bad. The past five weeks, we've seen both Cena's best and worst promo material.

valid but i think it sums up like this....Cena when he was on the rise > Cena on top

alot of people were already interested in John Cena when he was the hot new prospect. But when he made it to the top...it was like meh he's kinda bland. Maybe we miss the Cena we can never have back , he was hungry for fans then, disrespectful, raw. Now its pretty boring , im sure he has way more he can do in the ring than those 6 moves he does now
 

Kyoufu

Member
somedevil said:
stare-o.gif

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

YOU ARE KING OF KINGS SIR!
 

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
DonasaurusRex said:
valid but i think it sums up like this....Cena when he was on the rise > Cena on top

alot of people were already interested in John Cena when he was the hot new prospect. But when he made it to the top...it was like meh he's kinda bland. Maybe we miss the Cena we can never have back , he was hungry for fans then, disrespectful, raw. Now its pretty boring , im sure he has way more he can do in the ring than those 6 moves he does now
It's not that he went on top and people lost interest. It's that he lost the gimmick that got him over with the crowd in the first place, and turned into some shitty cheap-pop grabbing marine that tries to be the rock on the mic but fails completely at providing the mix of comedy and intensity (and variety) that the rock's promos did.

If Stone cold went back to his Ringmaster gimmick after winning KotR and his feuds with Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels, you would bet people would turn on him.
 

dream

Member
Anyone care about the history of WrestleMania story in the latest Observer? It's long but pretty awesome to read, especially as a companion piece to the WWE WrestleMania DVD.
 

DMczaf

Member
dream said:
Anyone care about the history of WrestleMania story in the latest Observer? It's long but pretty awesome to read, especially as a companion piece to the WWE WrestleMania DVD.

Sure.
 

dream

Member
Alright, uh...I apologize in advance for the wall of text that follows. It's good stuff though, i swear.

I’ve always viewed WrestleMania in stages. In the 80s, it was unique and novel, and created moments that lived in people’s minds far longer than anyone could have ever expected.
In the 90s, the shows were still memorable. Some good. Some bad. It was by no means close to what it was in the Hulk Hogan era as wrestling wasn’t as popular. But in a lot of ways, WrestleMania bottomed out and topped out at about the same moment, that memorable shot of the bloody face of Steve Austin refusing to submit to referee Ken Shamrock while caught in Bret Hart’s sharpshooter.
For a while, that was considered the greatest match in WrestleMania history. Steve Austin still considers it the best match of his career. That night in Chicago, WrestleMania only did 237,000 buys on PPV and there were a number of WCW shows that did better. Yet, Austin exploded, and the combination of Austin and Mike Tyson one year later led to what up to that point was the most successful WrestleMania in history. Since then, while not every show has been great, the new modern era started.
It’s the era of the wrestlers who grew up watching the early shows and seeing them as larger than life. Most of the wrestlers of that era probably didn’t comprehend what those memories would be. Yeah, it was the biggest show of the year, but it wasn’t like everyone peaked their training and went out to steal the show. If you watch the early WrestleManias, the matches for the most part were no better, and often worse, than a standard WWE PPV. Then, like now, you’ll get your outstanding match.
But the era of the Shawn Michaels show-stealing match, The Undertaker’s streak, and guys like Edge, Christian, Chris Jericho and HHH, and eventually most of the roster, that grew up as fans and probably can remember everything about the day, the show, what they were doing, and what the weather was like as kids on show day, but probably can’t even remember what they had for dinner a week ago, have led to what the show is today.
The new WWE DVD, The True History of WrestleMania, looks back. WrestleMania has a fascinating history, as well as a mythology. One would expect the WWE DVD to focus on the latter, and in particular when it comes to the early history, it largely does.
Most people will like the DVD. Sure, you can focus on a lot of matches that were left out (the landmark Michaels vs. Razor Ramon match; Michaels vs. Ric Flair; Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart; and Michaels vs. Kurt Angle were not even acknowledged) and disagree with opinions, but that’s cool. But the true history, particularly at the beginning, is far more interesting than the DVD let on. It would need a book and granted, a book has been written, but it was still the mythology version, where Andre the Giant will forever be 7-foot-5, where Hulk Hogan was scared to death that Andre might beat him up in that match, and perhaps the extreme mythology where Hogan tore all these muscles executing the bodyslam.
There are a number of people who made WrestleMania what it was and is. Without Hogan and Vince McMahon, both of them, it would have never gotten to where it is. Steve Austin was credited with the rebirth of WrestleMania, but he really just ushered in the new era. The 1998 show that established Austin as one of the biggest stars in the history of the industry was a turning point, which both Austin and Mike Tyson should be credited with. But two years later, when Austin wasn’t even on the show, the name WrestleMania was strong enough that they still did huge business. Since that time there has only been one show, in 2003 in Seattle, which did 540,000 worldwide buys, where somehow, for some reason, the Mania name didn’t click like usual. And there is no obvious answer as to why that happened. Last year’s show in some ways did worse, because it did just under 500,000 North American buys, but there is at least the explanation of going the day after a major UFC event.
But Sunday, things look to turn back around. Momentum is there at a level it hasn’t been in years. Whether this ends up happening or not, it looks to be the biggest show easily since the Floyd Mayweather/Ric Flair retirement show of 2008, and perhaps the biggest since the all-time high-water mark of the Donald Trump/Vince McMahon angle the year before.
While WrestleMania III is probably still the most memorable show, although far from the best show, as it can’t hold a candle to the modern shows with guys who peak everything for the day, as opposed to guys in the early years where it was the biggest show of the year, but in other ways, just another day in the grind.
The Hulk Hogan vs. Andre the Giant match, a poor match in the ring, is, at least in North America, the single most famous wrestling match of all-time. But make no mistake about it, the most important WrestleMania was the first one.
It is in the coverage of the early years that the DVD and “True Story” often part company. It was presented that WrestleMania took the industry out of smoky arenas and national guard armories. WrestleMania had little to do with it. In most major markets, pro wrestling ran in the nicest arena in the town. Some were smaller today because there were less NBA and NHL franchises that needed larger arenas. Some were just as big. Some were the same arenas (or modernized versions) that wrestling was playing in before that time. It is true a lot of them were smoky, but that change had to do completely with anti-smoking laws in enclosed public places.
Vince McMahon talked about taking the WWF and expanding nationally against the other promoters. Make no mistake about it, March 31, 1985, the date of the first WrestleMania was a major turning point in the brutal 80s wrestling war. Although not everyone saw it at the time.
In late 1983 and throughout 1984, Vince McMahon embarked as a campaign to expand what was his fathers’ very successful Northeastern wrestling territory nationally. The key cog in the wheel was the signing of Hogan, the top attraction for Verne Gagne’s AWA in the Midwest, and an even bigger star with New Japan Pro Wrestling. Hogan was the single most charismatic star in the business, and its biggest draw. To show how important he was, in 1983, Gagne’s big shows at the St. Paul Civic Center averaged about 8,000 when Hogan wasn’t on the card (when he was in Japan), and double that when he was headlining. While Ric Flair could double attendance at that time in the Carolinas, and Kerry Von Erich and Jimmy Snuka were both strong marketable commodities, anyone looking at the landscape could see Hogan was the guy to lead the charge. Without him, I believe the national expansion would have failed.
McMahon had both success and failure in his first year going national. In most cities where the local wrestling wasn’t strong, McMahon did well. He also did well in his own territory, as well as in the AWA markets because they were established Hogan strongholds. In markets with strong local promotions, the Carolinas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Texas and Tennessee in particular, he didn’t make many inroads.
Plus, he gambled big. McMahon established a strong regional television network by going to the stations that aired local wrestling, and offering to pay the station, several thousand dollars per week inn the major markets, to put his show on and remove the local show. McMahon said that he believed he had a better product and wanted to compete. He had more stars, a different product, and he did compete, but not in traditional ways.
It’s hard to know whether the costs of the expansion were more than he was taking in. His core cities, and many other markets, were doing great business when Hogan headlined, and many were doing great business even without Hogan, with people like Andre the Giant, Roddy Piper, Snuka, Sgt. Slaughter and others as top attractions. A lot of other markets weren’t doing well. The signs were not good, since McMahon was falling behind in paying his television bills when he came up with WrestleMania.
The story on the DVD is that if the first WrestleMania wasn’t a success, Vince wouldn’t be here today. It’s hard to say. There were important entertainment figures who were already talking to McMahon. Saturday Night’s Main Event on NBC, a gigantic breakthrough for his company, started shortly after Mania and probably would have happened either way. He may have had to take on partners, and that’s not his style. He likes to say it was make or break. He himself would have gone broke, at least for the time, if it didn’t hit.
It was portrayed as the pre-Mania period led by the Cyndi Lauper angle, which was a huge breakthrough (all stemming from the weird luck of Lauper sitting on an airplane next to Lou Albano and finding the guy hilarious and putting him in her videos and then she exploded) made wrestling hip and created sellouts. Wrestling was doing strong business in most places in 1983. Celebrities went to Madison Square Garden to see Bruno Sammartino and Superstar Graham. Future presidents attended shows in Columbus, GA and Houston. Arguably the single biggest rock and roll star in the history of the world snuck in backstage often at the Mid South Coliseum. Wrestling sold out arenas before and after, and quite frankly, as time went on, less after.
But doing a closed-circuit show on a national basis was a huge gamble. It would not have succeeded except for Mr. T, who created all kinds of mainstream buzz. It can’t be emphasized just how big, not just a TV star Mr. T was in 1985, but just as important was how big his tough-guy aura was. In a time before UFC and Jiu Jitsu, people knew nothing about fighting, and well, Mr. T looked like they imagined the baddest prison tough street fighter with the scowl, the Mohawk and all the bling. He was Kimbo Slice, but never exposed, and really, with tons more notoriety.
As funny as this sounds, because of the racially charged promos of Piper, and the fact the public believed Mr. T was real, they did get that weird aura that meant money in those days. The idea that wrestling is scripted, but this one match, well, maybe this talking went too far. Hogan was already a big star to wrestling fans, but it was tag teaming with Mr. T at the first WrestleMania that made him a celebrity to non-fans. It was a lesson that Hogan learned and has tried to constantly repeat.
Vince portrayed it as this gigantic gamble because nobody knew if wrestling fans would go to arenas and theaters to watch on closed-circuit, acting like it was something new. It was a gamble, but it had been done before. Muhammad Ali vs. Antonio Inoki nine years earlier, which was not a success, went into just as many locations as WrestleMania. Big boxing matches had been on closed-circuit for more than a decade. Jim Crockett had already put on two Starrcade events and proven, that at least in his territory, the concept worked for modern pro wrestling. Still, booking 17 markets in the Carolinas and more than 200 buildings around North America is a completely different scale event.
There have been all kinds of stories regarding the financing of that first show. David Crockett once claimed their company, in paying $1 million to McMahon to buy the TBS time slot, did so. But that deal went down after Mania. Others said it was Antonio Inoki. Vince McMahon Sr. and New Japan Pro Wrestling had a relationship dating back to the mid-70s, as New Japan used McMahon Sr. as a source for foreign talent when The Funk Brothers and the NWA promotions were supplying All Japan. By that point, with Hogan and Andre the Giant in particular being huge stars, New Japan would pay WWF $500,000 twice a year as part of its talent fees. When Inoki paid his early 1985 installment, that’s when a lot of the overdue television bills started getting paid.
A week in, things were not looking good. While Madison Square Garden sold out immediately, no surprise, since big shows at MSG had been selling out on a regular basis since 1970, most closed circuit locations were doing poorly. Advances were so scary that a week out, they canceled more than 70 locations, about one-third of the ones booked. And of the 133 remaining, many of them had less than 1,000 tickets sold.
But at the end of the day, it can never be said Vince McMahon was not a great wrestling promoter, even if he would hate to be associated with that term. The last week publicity was like nothing, before or since, that wrestling has ever seen. Yes, future Manias would be viewed by far more people on PPV, and in major stadiums, and it would become a major annual entertainment event. But for all the talk of front page publicity on a national basis, the only WrestleMania ever to accomplish that was the first one, and it was due to Cyndi Lauper and Mr. T’s involvement. And to this day, there is some debate whether, from a wrestling standpoint, whether it was Hogan or Piper who was the most important. The general public story was Mr. T wrestling Piper, with the big blond guy in a tag match, but to the wrestling fans actually buying tickets, Hogan was the big star.
No, there weren’t 1 million people watching on closed-circuit like claimed (that was the reported number and everyone bought it), but the late publicity led to phenomenal walk-up business in many locations. The actual number on closed circuit was 398,000 paying $3.8 million. Sunday’ show may gross $50 million to show how far things have come. But it was enough to pay the bills and was an undeniable success to the level it became a tradition.
Still, those in the industry didn’t know. I remember right after, Ernie Ladd, a very savvy veteran of the business, remarked that Vince had just won the war. But if he did, and in hindsight, you could say that night as a key turning point, nobody told his opponents. The strong opposition promoters of the time were also celebrating. WrestleMania was carried by certain parts of the country, the traditional McMahon territory, Canada and the West Coast. In cities known as wrestling strongholds, fans did not accept “New York Wrestling” yet. People like Jim Crockett, Paul Boesch, Fritz Von Erich, Jerry Jarrett and Bill Watts only looked at their territory. In their minds, Vince got more publicity than anyone had ever gotten, brought in the biggest TV star, one of the biggest rock stars, plus had Muhammad Ali and Billy Martin on the show, and almost nobody in their territory bought tickets. To them, it was a vindication that what they were doing was right, and they just had to ride out a little while before the world returns to balancing correctly on its axis.
One McMahon promoter who had a long period working for a successful other side, running in a market that did just under the national average noted, “We’ve never had more publicity for a show in history, and I’m not sure the town isn’t worse off for it.” What the ones who breathed a sigh of relief that night didn’t understand is that, yes, traditional wrestling fans had a style they liked. And this wasn’t it. But the new fans coming in, kids, the next generation of fans, this was the major league, they were on NBC and in the news and Hulk Hogan was the big star.
Still, two key stories that weren’t touched, was Mr. T having cold feet and trying so leave the Garden before the match, and Piper’s outright refusal to do a job. Piper knew how important he was to the company and flexed his muscles at times. After Mania, he defied Vince and worked a show for Don Owen. When Vince would run shows in Oregon, where Piper would have been his biggest draw, Piper refused to work them. So it was a safe bet he could nix doing a job. And Paul Orndorff didn’t have that problem. Mr. T considered leaving, perhaps due to nerves, or fear somebody would shoot on him, because Mr. T knew why he was over and if Piper took a cheap shot at him and laid him out, his entire aura would be dead. But Hogan and Piper talked him into coming back. Mr. T walking out would have killed the show. There would have been no second WrestleMania had that happened. And the company’s credibility may have taken a hit that at that point in time it couldn’t recover from.
Hogan, as per usual, had the wackiest quotes. He claimed that if Mania hadn’t been a success and WWF went down, that every wrestler on the card would have been blackballed and would not have had a way to make a living in wrestling.
Even sillier, he said, “Before WrestleMania I, I never dreamed I’d catch the eye of the New York promoter, work Madison Square Garden, then I made the step to the big leagues.”
Hogan caught the eye of Vince McMahon Sr. in 1979, when he made his WWF debut. The first WrestleMania was six years later.
WrestleMania II was portrayed also as something never done before. They did a three hour plus show. One hour was live at the Nassau Coliseum in New York, The second was at the Rosemont Horizon in Chicago (now the All-State Arena) and the third at the Los Angeles Sports Arena. This was also described as something never done before. In actuality, Crockett had just done it the previous Thanksgiving for Starrcade in Greensboro and Atlanta. Vince talked about how doing such a show with the technology today would be difficult, so imagine doing it in 1986. Except Crockett had already done it in 1985. It was interesting because while everyone else was putting it over, in two different clips, Dick Ebersol did not. He said he didn’t think the company was ready for it because Vince couldn’t be in all three places, and closed saying, “I don’t think that (show) was up to the standards of all the other ones.”
While Hogan vs. Bundy was the big closed circuit ticket seller, this show also got very good media because The Fridge, William Perry, was a cult favorite as, not the best player, but the most talked about player on the Super Bowl winning Chicago Bears. Perry joined a number of NFL players, including Jimbo Covert of the Bears, Bill Fralic (a huge fan who had every asset to be a huge star in wrestling, and teased going into WCW once as contract leverage), Russ Francis (who had wrestled in the 70s and his father was a great wrestler and promoter when he was growing up), Ernie Holmes (retired by that point, who also briefly wrestled for Georgia Championship Wrestling many years earlier–and had an interesting altercation at the dress rehearsal where he wanted to fight Andre the Giant), Harvey Martin (a big fan who later did some wrestling for World Class), while Dick Butkus and Too Tall Jones (who the Cowboys wouldn’t allow in the Battle Royal) were referees. No such thing could happen today with modern NFL contracts that would prevent it. The Battle Royal was also notable because it was the only WrestleMania that Bruno Sammartino wrestled on.
fter the success of the celebrities on the first show, they went crazy on this one, with a list that included Susan St. James (the wife of Ebersol), Joan Rivers, Herb from the Burger King commercials, Ray Charles, Cathy Lee Crosby, Clare Peller, Elvira, Tommy Lasorda and Ricky Schroeder. After the show, that was considered major overkill and they toned down. This was about 20% down from the first show, doing 319,000 fans on closed circuit, but it was not a financial failure by any means. It wasn’t much of a show, as out of 12 matches, you really only had two good ones (British Bulldogs winning the tag titles over Greg Valentine & Brutus Beefcake and The Funk Brothers over Junkyard Dog & Tito Santana.
DeVito mentioned a full house in Chicago, and I guess you have to say that. The show did sell out in Nassau, and came close in Los Angeles (14,500 out of 16,700 seats), while Chicago only drew 9,000–a shocker since Perry was involved. They never tried three locations again.
The third show, at the Pontiac Silverdome, was portrayed as the biggest ever. Once again, the mythology was in full bore, and not just the 93,173 figure, because they have to say that. Basil DeVito, who probably topped only Hogan in credibility here, talked about Vince announcing they were going to the Silverdome and being scared to death by a building that large. To a point I could see that, because there was a lot of pressure. But Hogan vs. Orndorff had already drawn a legitimate 64,000 fans and almost 62,000 paid in Toronto the year before. And that was for a show promoted only in the Toronto market. This was a bigger match, the biggest match possible at the time, on a show being promoted nationally. I’m not saying they were guaranteed to do 78,000 people, but the building was going to be close to full. As it turned out, they sold out a week in advance.
The mythology here was great, particularly the idea that Hogan was afraid Andre would shoot on him. Look, a prime Andre the Giant was the most physically awesome looking person on the planet. A prime Andre got sucker punched by 310 pound Blackjack Mulligan at a beach front hotel, shook it off like it was nothing, and grabbed both Mulligan and Murdoch, himself about 280 and a legendary tough guy, dragged them to the ocean and dunked them. But this was years later, after the Akira Maeda situation in Japan. This was after filming “The Princess Bride,” where Andre’s body had turned on him so badly they he could not even hold a 110 pound women in his arms and they had to use wires and suspend her to make it look like Andre was holding her. Andre was immobile, but it didn’t matter because the hype overcame what actually happened.
Ricky Steamboat vs. Randy Savage was featured. Generally considered the best match of the first nine Manias, Gerald Brisco made the comment that they proved that you can steal the show even if you’re not in the main event. Yes, another thing that had never been done before in wrestling history, as there had never been a great undercard match. Chris Jericho, whose favorite wrestler was Steamboat, noted that he and his best friend memorized this match move-for-move, and would practice it over-and-over.
But this show was the high-water mark of WWF history until the Austin era. It set the record with 450,000 closed circuit viewers, and another 400,000 on pay-per-view, a number amazing considering only 5 million homes in the country had PPV capabilities. But it signaled the end of closed-circuit and the beginning of the PPV era.
Steamboat vs. Savage is still remembered by almost everyone who saw it, 24 years later. As far as the all-time star of Mania, Hogan is the most important because he got the ball rolling; Michaels is the greatest WrestleMania performer ever, having the best match on the show over-and-over; and Undertaker with the streak gimmick, something that was a complete fluke in the sense the first seven or eight shows it was just a coincidence he always won, before they started actually realizing there was a streak and booking to make sure it continued. In recent years has become the biggest thing on the show.
The fourth WrestleMania–the original Super Sunday, had a great story, some of which probably would have to be told a little differently on a WWE DVD. But instead of telling it differently, the big story, in fact, didn’t exist, almost like the main event the year Chris Benoit won the title. By 1988, the war between McMahon and Crockett (never acknowledged, historically it was only Ted Turner’s billions and stealing WWF talent that I guess was deemed as able to be competitive, not a Carolinas regional promoter who went national, and for a brief period of time was battling evenly with Vince in some of Vince’s core cities) heated up when McMahon put the screws to Starrcade ‘87 on PPV.
 

dream

Member
Both Crockett, in 1985, and Watts, in 1986, realized the days of regional promotions were over. Each wanted to go national. Both followed the 1984 McMahon blueprint, buying television time in different cities to get national penetration. The difference was McMahon had Hogan, and they had nobody close, McMahon was in New York and established himself as the industry leader with Lauper and Mr. T, and was regularly featured on NBC. Just like they did in McMahon’s early expansion, the TV bills of buying time all over the country were a huge drain. Crockett had established stars like Dusty Rhodes Ric Flair and the Road Warriors, and had some success leaving his territory, but paid so heavily for television and overspent in other ways and was in trouble by 1988. Watts had no success out of his territory, and his own territory was getting weaker and weaker as his key cities were in an economic crunch. The game was no longer regional, and while Watts was generally viewed as producing the best television, and did draw the best ratings, there was no money to be made on TV in those days, and his big stars did not have the national names that the Crockett and McMahon stars had.
By 1988, the Crockett family were millions in the hole. McMahon had screwed with their first two PPV attempts, so to get revenge, they booked a free special on TBS, the first Clash of the Champions, head-to-head with WrestleMania IV. One of the most important matches of the modern era, a 45:00 draw with Ric Flair vs. Sting, headlined. Sting was a mid-card wrestler given a title shot because in those days, NWA world title matches on television almost never happened. 45 minutes later, he was the No. 2 babyface in the country behind Hogan. The Clash was a huge success, and the Mania world title tournament was held in a heatless Trump Plaza in Atlantic City. But while Crockett may have had the best show, and far more watched his product that day than Mania, they didn’t make any money doing television. Mania did more buys on PPV (only because the number of PPV homes had doubled to 10 million by the time of the show). Closed circuit was cut down more than in half, doing 175,000 fans. The Clash did a 5.8 rating, peaking at a 7.8 for the last 15 minutes of the main event.
The cable industry was furious. WrestleMania did far less than projected and Ted Turner was blamed for putting a free show up against one of the PPV industry’s biggest one day windfalls of the year. McMahon had actually started this game, debuting the Royal Rumble on the USA Network in January to go against the Crockett Bunkhouse Stampede PPV. But it didn’t matter who started it, the cable industry felt this game was costing them money. They put their foot down. Both wrestling companies were told that there would be no free television going against a PPV show from the other company. Ironically, a year later there would be. And who requested it? The major PPV companies.
Also notable when talking about the tournament, the original planned winner, Ted DiBiase, was interviewed, but things like changing finishes were never talked about. Then again, in modern years, finishes to big matches are changed the day of the show. So something considered monumental, and it changed DiBiase’s career, would, by modern standards, be nothing big and a regular occurrence.
One of the big behind the scenes stories throughout the past quarter century or so of PPV as for so long the big moneymaker, was the revenue split. Vince McMahon always wanted more. He bore all the costs, he put together the show, and the cable companies were getting 50% of the revenue, largely for some promotional help, answering some phone calls and flipping a switch. But there was no getting around it. Sure, he could go back to closed-circuit, but that’s cutting off your nose to spite your face. Still, after trying to leverage a better share, the leading cable companies and McMahon had such a falling out that they went to Turner, who had purchased the Crockett company in November 1988, and requested a show for April 2, 1989–the same day McMahon did WrestleMania.
Turner was promised that essentially what McMahon did to Crockett in 1987 at Starrcade, would be done back to him. Nobody was going to broadcast WrestleMania. McMahon would be forced back to closed-circuit, while the new WCW promotion would get national PPV clearance for their show. Jim Herd booked the Superdome in New Orleans, and the company built a two out of three fall match with Flair vs. Steamboat, arguably the two best performers in North America at the time.
McMahon then agreed to their terms on a split. Then they went to Turner and said they changed their mind. Turner had enough power in that industry that even though he couldn’t stop the double-cross, they agreed to not pressure him about putting the free television show on head-to-head. Crockett had the better show in the ring, but the promotion of the show was terrible. George Scott, the once-great booker of the 70s, was clearly in over-his-head by 1989. He was still of the mentality that it was all about house shows. Earlier that year, on a PPV, he went off the air with a match still in the ring. His reasoning? To show people they had to pay money to go to the house show to see the entire card. Flair vs. Steamboat was headlining all his arenas, so he decided against promoting that the match would be on television, figuring it would hurt ticket sales in the other cities.
McMahon promoted his main event, Hulk Hogan vs. Randy Savage, with a one year storyline, arguably his best one ever. The two finally split up before a live NBC prime time audience of more than 20 million viewers. The Turner main event was promoted for one week. It did a 4.3 rating, and Flair vs. Steamboat is remembered as one of the great matches of the era. WrestleMania V was another mostly heatless show, but Hogan vs. Savage did 767,000 buys (a record that held up until the Austin era) at a time when there were only 13 million PPV homes, and they also set a U.S. gate record, doing $1,628,000 with 18,946 fans, more money than 78,000 fans drew two years earlier.
I consider the Hogan vs. Warrior match at the 1990 Mania in Toronto as the real end of the era. Starting with 1991, and continuing through 1997, PPV numbers declined while the PPV universe increased.
Vince decided that 1991 would break the all-time attendance record, booking the Rose Bowl, which held 100,000 people. At one point, the idea was Hogan vs. Warrior in a rematch, but Warrior did not draw well as champion, so the decision was made to bring in Sgt. Slaughter, turn him heel and make him an Iraqi sympathizer, and get the title back on Hogan. Slaughter, who had been fired by McMahon in 1984 over a merchandise dispute. At a time he was one of the company’s top stars. He was able to do well as a free agent for years, but was nearly forgotten in the industry by this point. Slaughter claimed Hogan said he didn’t want t work with anyone else, which sounds silly.
The storyline was controversial. The DVD actually showed a critical article talking about McMahon exploiting the war, written by Alex Marvez. WrestleMania may have played well in Detroit or Toronto, but it did not at that point in Los Angeles, which had hosted Super Bowls and entertainment events far bigger. Five weeks out, there were about 15,000 tickets sold. The story was that there were security threats so they had to move the show indoors. Why there would be those threats for a wrestling show but not for outdoor baseball games, concerts or anything else was never acknowledged. The last few weeks, they were actually still giving away tickets, just to fill the Sports Arena. Whatever it was, controversy on that night did not equal cash.
Bob Collins, who promoted every WrestleMania until quitting the company a couple of years back, was tremendous on this tape. He said that they were told it was a security risk, and you could see the skepticism when he said it. He noted it ended up being a rainy night in Los Angeles as it turned out.
The 1992 show was talked about as the idea of Hogan vs. Flair, which didn’t happen. The basic story was the Hogan-Flair program stared months earlier. The first Flair vs. Hogan match was unannounced, in Dayton. A few days later came the first advertised match, in Oakland. It was the best wrestling crowd in the Bay Area in several years, drawing just shy of a sellout. Flair wanted to do his 30 minute match. Hogan wanted to do his 10. They did probably about 13 or so, with Hogan telling Flair that night they should save the 30 for WrestleMania.
By the end of 1991, the Hogan vs. Flair program was sputtering. Titles meant something in those days and the lure was that Hogan was the WWF champion. Flair never lost the NWA title. He and Jim Herd, who ran WCW, had a number of issues. Flair was looking for a contract extension and Herd wasn’t going to give it. Herd fired Flair before Flair was scheduled to lose the title to Barry Windham in of all places, Albany, GA (the first idea was to lose to Lex Luger on PPV, but by this point Herd just wanted the belt off him as soon as possible). Then Herd just fired Flair before he lost the title.
So to the fans, Flair was the champion. And Flair never lost the physical belt, which he had paid for. Flair showed up on WWF television with the physical belt. But McMahon wouldn’t go with the obvious angle. The argument is that if they played up champion vs. champion like this was the culmination dream match of the 80s it would put over that the rival promotion was on the same level. Flair came in billed as “The real world champion,” but at the same time, the babyface announcers, instead of saying he was a champion at the level of Hogan and this all-time dream match was coming, pushed that he was some guy with a made up belt that they had never heard of, and had the audacity to challenge Hogan. The program drew well early, but by January, the public had tired of it. Sid Vicious at the time was more over than Flair, so Vince made the call Flair (who won the title in the Royal Rumble) would defend against Savage, while Hogan would face Sid in a double main.
The DVD actually saw Gene Okerlund call it a “so-so” Mania, the only time a Mania was given a bad review by someone who worked in he company. The funny thing is, with Flair vs. Savage and Bret Hart vs. Roddy Piper, it was probably the best in-ring Mania up to that point. The next year in Las Vegas, among the worst Manias ever, was put over as being a good show. Collins noted that a lot of people were mad about the surprise ending (both internally and externally) in Las Vegas in 1993, where Hart lost the title to Yokozuna in the main event. Hogan had been out of action since the prior Mania because he had been a lightning rod for the steroid issue and Vince wanted him to announce his retirement and then bring him back, but Hogan wouldn’t announce his retirement and just disappeared. He worked an undercard tag match, then showed up and had an impromptu match with Yokozuna and won the title. Business had been way down since Hogan left, so the feeling was getting the title back on him would bring things up, plus McMahon wanted Hart to win the title from Hogan, feeling it would be the win Hart needed to get to where he could have true world championship credibility. But it didn’t work out that way. When Hogan wasn’t drawing, and was asked to lose to Hart, he gave his notice, and said he would lose to Yokozuna and left.
Even though the Crockett feud was never mentioned, the WCW rivalry in 1997 was pushed, with Austin as the key guy in the turn around. One could make a case that Hogan was as big a draw in many places as Austin. Austin’s actual numbers were much higher, but you could say he had better support and business in the heyday was good without Austin, excellent with him, while Hogan had periods where he drew well at a time nobody else could. But the Austin era, even though WCW went head-to-head, starting in 1998, was the first time that WWF was able to draw well everywhere. He was not as famous as Hogan, but he did have more universal appeal. The markets Hogan never drew well in, Austin was selling out in. In Hogan’s big markets, Austin was also selling out.
The modern era of wrestling started in 1998, and while Austin was a big part of it being sustained, he was not the catalyst. That was Mike Tyson. While the $3.5 million figure wasn’t mentioned, Basil DeVito brought up that when Vince told him they could get Tyson for the price, he said it was a bad idea, as it was too much money. WCW had paid Dennis Rodman $1.5 million plus points, to where he made $2.2 million for wrestling on a PPV show that did 600,000 buys. DeVito said Vince told him, “You don’t understand. How are we going to grow this business if more people don’t see it. Regardless of what the financials are, that’s what we’re going to do.”
What a lot of people don’t know, and it’s crazy in hindsight, was that Tyson had not signed when he first appeared on WWE television. On a ten times bigger scale, this was McMahon doing what Dixie Carter did shooting that angle for the return of the Main Event Mafia. And Tyson’s people were hardly loyal. They went to WCW trying to get a bigger money offer. Years earlier, when WWF was trying to get Rodman at Mania, WCW found out, and offered Rodman far more money to go with them. Eric Bischoff was in charge of WCW, and he was hardly adverse to spending. And early 1998 was really when Nitro was at its peak. But even to Bischoff, topping $3.5 million wasn’t a deal he thought made sense. Ironically, it was the deal that started the turnaround in the industry. Tyson, far more than the Austin vs. Michaels main event, was the reason the show did 730,000 buys, ushering in the giant financial Mania era.
Regarding the modern Mania product, there was an interesting discussion regarding big stadiums and arenas. Collins noted after the 2005 show at the Staples Center in Los Angeles, Vince told him “No more arenas,” and it’s been a big stadium event ever since. Most expect 2014 in Madison Square Garden, since it’s WrestleMania XXX, where it all started. HHH brought up the difference in working in a stadium, the sound travels slower and you have to wait for your pop, and it’s not as loud, and freaks people out.
Edge noted doing his Astrodome match in 2001, thinking they were having a great match (Edge & Christian vs. Hardys vs. Dudleys in a TLC match, among the best Mania matches ever), but not feeling the reaction and being disappointed, and only realizing it was a great match while watching on tape. Cena outright said he prefers WrestleMania in the arena, because he feels it’s a better atmosphere. Jericho disagreed, saying what makes Mania is the big stadium and 70,000 fans, and that if you sacrifice a little in reaction, so be it. At this stage of the game, I agree with the Jericho viewpoint. You don’t want WrestleMania to feel like SummerSlam in an 18,000 seat arena. If and when the day comes that you can only get 30,000 people there, yeah, better to sell out 18,000 than do 30,000 and curtain off the upper deck of a stadium. But we’re not there now.
Jericho also said he and Brian Gewirtz came up with the Money in the Bank concept.
Edge, when talking about both the big three-way tag matches with ladders said in hindsight, being young guys trying to steal the show, “We raised the bar too high, and I’ve said that before.” But he and Jericho both noted that if you have a great match at WrestleMania, it’s never forgotten. He called the first Undertaker vs. Michaels match the best one ever, saying 75% because of what the match was and 25% because it was at Mania. A great match on Raw is forgotten in a week. A great match on a PPV is forgotten in a month. A great match at Mania, well, I can only say that I can remember every one of them, the year, the city, and probably everything about the day.
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Fantastic read, thanks for posting it. It's pretty amazing just how devoted the WWE is to it's own mythology, whether it be articles or interviews. It almost seems a Stockholm syndrome style psychosis at times.
 

JdFoX187

Banned
I would think Sheamus would win. I would hope Cody would as well, but you can never tell with Rey. We all pretty much figured CM Punk would win last year at 'Mania. Only problem is WWE traditionally likes to have more faces prevail at 'Mania, so I would bet that means we'll be seeing Punk lose a second year in a row :(
 

antonz

Member
JdFoX187 said:
I would think Sheamus would win. I would hope Cody would as well, but you can never tell with Rey. We all pretty much figured CM Punk would win last year at 'Mania. Only problem is WWE traditionally likes to have more faces prevail at 'Mania, so I would bet that means we'll be seeing Punk lose a second year in a row :(

I would honestly be shocked if Punk won. Last 2 raws he basically shit all over Orton the "up and coming" star. Orton getting revenge for being shit on is all but assured storyline wise
 
JdFoX187 said:
I would think Sheamus would win. I would hope Cody would as well, but you can never tell with Rey. We all pretty much figured CM Punk would win last year at 'Mania. Only problem is WWE traditionally likes to have more faces prevail at 'Mania, so I would bet that means we'll be seeing Punk lose a second year in a row :(

They are building Cody up I think they may let him take the win at Mania.
 

Kyoufu

Member
BigKaboom2 said:
Just need to mention that Cody Rhodes channeling Minoru Suzuki on Smackdown was glorious and the new edit of his entrance music is perfect. If he and Sheamus both lose I will be distraught.

Too bad Super Rey ruined everything. If there is one guy more "boring" than Cena it has to be Rey Mysterio. At least, he bores the crap out of me now. Dude needs a break.

Hopefully Cody beats him at WM.
 

JdFoX187

Banned
antonz said:
I would honestly be shocked if Punk won. Last 2 raws he basically shit all over Orton the "up and coming" star. Orton getting revenge for being shit on is all but assured storyline wise
I agree. Just wish they would have booked it where Punk looked weak going into 'Mania without the New Nexus, and then showed this more demented side and became a badass at 'Mania while using that as a push into the main event. But nope.
 

dxhc99

Member
Hey guys first post here and was hoping that someone could hook me up with that super lamp from the royal rumble. If willing just PM me.
 

Mr. Sam

Member
antonz said:
Very expensive watches. Easily 5 grand each probably

I thought it was Vince who bought them watches? If I recall, Shawn's read "To be the man" and Flair's read "You've gotta beat the man" or vice versa. Probably vice versa.
 

RBH

Member
dream said:
Have you hit any of the preshow events, RBH?
Haven't been able to due to work/school/other things. :(

But I'm just extremely grateful to be able to go to Wrestlemania itself tomorrow.
 

MPW

Member
JdFoX187 said:
*blink*blink*

Hate when random idiots show up and pick out random posts from earlier in the thread and call people out.

wow

nice response mr internet tough guy

i just asked a question, no need to get batshit crazy over it lol
 
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