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April Wrasslin |OT| WrassleMania Sucked
- Thread starter Mr. Sam
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I trust your judgment on wrestling above all based on your amount of knowledge, but you're one person. I cannot think of one champion that has been on top for any length amount of time that the IWC likes.Bootaaay said:
I agree. But I would almost guarantee they wouldn't hate them nearly as much if they weren't constantly main eventing or in the title picture. The IWC loved Orton during his three-way feud with Legacy. They loved him when he was leading legacy. Now he's "Boreton."
I agree, I want to see Ziggler, Kofi, Morrison, Swagger and those guys in the main event. I was the biggest proponent of Swagger even during his ECW days.
My point still stands, for any number of reasons. There are plenty of factors that cause a guy to go stale not be as entertaining when he gets the belt or into the main event. Whether it's WWE toning down their moveset to protect them, neutering their promos since they're now in a higher position or just shit booking. It still doesn't change the fact the IWC is almost never happy with guys that are in the main event. I never said it was for a specific reason, I just said that that's the case.Net_Wrecker said:
El Pescado
Member
He really showed Rowdy Roddy Piper. XDZeroRay said:
Arrowgigantic
Member
Zack is hilarious. "Did you just push me? Nobody pushes me! I don't get pushed!"
Mr. Enigma
Member
The cameo by Colt Cabana was hilarious.
evil ways said:
The IWC will love the character on the rise but hate it when they're on top for a while. Flavor of the month is now Cody Rhodes. We now have supercena, superrey, and randy boreton. Eventually Rhodes will get boring and we'll pick another one after giving him a name. Heck, we'll even chant "Same Ole $hit" if we're really pissed off that our mental bookings are not coming to fruition. I blame it on our subconscious need to be 'creative' or the 'booking agent'. We're well beyond the years of rooting for the baby face as a young child. We're sophisticated adults who read dirt sheets and are in the know of things behind the scenes.
Net_Wrecker
Member
ZeroRay said:
Scott Stanford, Colt Cabana, "And I'm all out of bubblegum" "I DON'T GET PUSHED!!"
:lol
If Cody's on top and always booked like superman, yeah that's a valid argument. The problem with Cena and Orton is they're always in the main events, getting 75% of the air time, despite being less than stellar in the ring. They aren't the performers in the ring guys like Christian, Del Rio, Ziggler, Swagger, etc. are. Makes matters worse they've been on this top pedestal for nearly six years. SIX YEARS!
Striker said:
Didn't stop the Hogan marks and there were a ton of them who continued to support him during the 80/90's .. double digit years despite knowing he was extremely limited in the ring. Hogan dominated the main event across various companies and to an extent is dominating the airwaves of TNA despite not being an active "wrestler". Like I said in a post earlier, things are different now. We were all kids then who thought wrestling was real.
JdFoX187 said:
To be fair the only people who have gotten long reigns in the past couple years are Undertaker, Cena, HHH, Orton, and now Miz. Not exactly an amazing list. The IWC loved Heel Edge and Heel Punk as champs but they only kept it for a little over a month every time they held it.
Never said Hogan was, or is. Difference lies today there's more exposure. There is more opportunities shelling these new, young guys out there instead of constantly using the same few over, and over, and over again. Cena and Orton were nobody until they were given a chance.jmdajr said:
Striker said:
New people will get a chance. It's not like they have a choice.
List of champs from 2001-2005
The Rock
Steve Austin
Kurt Angle
Steve Austin
Chris Jericho
Triple H
Hulk Hogan
The Undertaker
The Rock
Brock Lesnar
The Big Show
Kurt Angle
Brock Lesnar
Kurt Angle
Brock Lesnar
Eddie Guerrero
John Bradshaw Layfield
John Cena
.
Since late 2006 or say 2007, how many consistent main eventers have they made? We had the usual trio in each brand (RAW Orton, Cena, Triple H; Smackdown Batista, Edge, Undertaker) but it felt like nobody else has been elevated. It's nice to see them give minor opportunities to CM Punk, The Miz, and Jack Swagger, but unfortunately they've dropped the ball on them creative wise and made them look like absolute fools. They can have so many more guys in the scene but fail to do so.jmdajr said:
Striker said:
Sad isn't it. When the main event was to be Miz vs. Cena and Del Rio versus Edge .. IWC cried weak Wrestlemania. This is until the Rock was announced as host and just overnight, we had a credible Wrestlemania. It was further amplified by Taker versus HHH. The IWC screams that the show lacked star power. After the show was over, IWC complained symptoms of Rock fatigue.
To be honest, I don't think we know what we want.
Mr. Enigma
Member
Jim Duggan:
Keyser Soze
Member
AnEternalEnigma said:
That's not even TV-14
Net_Wrecker
Member
sajj316 said:
Anybody screaming of Rock fatigue is in the wrong here. The guys brought a sense of excitement that wasn't felt since January 4th 2010, and wasn't there long before that. The problem was that he was SUPER flat at Wrestlemania.
Secondly, I never got the feeling that The Rock being involved "suddenly" made Wrestlmania credible. Everyone KNEW The Miz vs. Orton would suck, and that most of the matches would be meh, but at least The Rock being there would add something, Del Rio would get his huge title win, and Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus would tear the house down...
Oh wait, we got none of those.
At least HHH and The Undertaker worked their asses off.
Basileus777
Member
The problem is also people over analyzing things. People bitch about the Miz's booking, yet he's had the longest title reign in some time and has gone over ever major face on Raw. Miz's look is precisely why he's been booked as a cheating heel, I don't know why people expect him to be booked like a monster. And Punk has been stuck in the Jericho role because he's good enough to stay relevant even when he loses feuds.
Arrowgigantic
Member
Fake Jim Duggan, you mean?AnEternalEnigma said:
Basileus777
Member
Ryck said:
Hogan could actually emote and tell a story in the ring. Nothing Cena does matters because he'll just smile and laugh no matter what happens, even after being screwed out of a title at Wrestlemania.
The fact that we had more than 2-3 guys in the main event scene is already head and shoulders above what we have now.jmdajr said:
In the 2001-2004 time you had... what, close to a dozen guys who can main event and not suffer the crowd? Austin, Rock, Jericho, HHH, Angle, Benoit, Guerrero, Taker, plus guys like Booker T, Kane, HBK (once he returned), etc. The variety is what they had, so they didn't necessarily be forced to push guys like they are now.
Basileus777 said:
This I can agree! What wasn't pointed out by Bryan Alvarez on The Bryan and Vinny Show was that Cena hasn't improved in his ability to tell a story in the ring. Bryan said that he just didn't improve at anything. Whether you have 5 moves or 50 moves, if you can't sell the story to the crowd, you lose them.
That right there, actually very few wrestlers understand the craft of telling a story. A lot of people just do spot fests and what not but ignore that there is a story to tell as well. I was watching my Macho Man dvd set the other day and was blown away by the story telling going on in those old 80's matches, amazing stuff.Basileus777 said:
Net_Wrecker
Member
Basileus777 said:
Y'know there's more to a heel than a monster or a cheat, right? The Miz was comfortably in that mizzle ground before winning the WWE Title, then all of a sudden he needs every distraction possible before getting a pinfall. The WWE LOVES them some weak cheating heel champs, and overcoming the odds faces, but there's more than that. Compelling TV needs a varied cast of characters, and for a company that currently prides themselves on being "Entertainment," the vanilla booking they push brings NOTHING exciting to the table.
Any of you guys listen to GiantBomb from a week ago when they were talking about WWE All-Stars? That shit was truth. They basically referenced 80's/90's events in wrestling (dudes getting ran over in unmarked Lincoln Continentals, etc.) and made some good points about why its not worth watching today.
I think I stopped watching when Mick Foley retired the first time (2000-ish?). Now I look at the lineup and its all guys with NO gimmick. NO flair. Its like, 15 dudes who just stand around making speeches looking all jacked. "Ruck Fules"? That's your thing? Oh look, its a pasty redheaded guy wearing a gaudy medallion. Awesome.
Wrestling was way cooler when there was magic to the characters. The Undertaker fed off of supernatural forces, Mankind was a lunatic with multiple personalities, Kane was still in a mask and was an unstoppable monster, Sting was the disenchanted rebel doling out justice where it was needed, and Goldberg was the undefeated champion that made you feel like there were still people in the world who could achieve anything.
If wrestling ever gets back to that awesome place, I'd like to know about it.
I think I stopped watching when Mick Foley retired the first time (2000-ish?). Now I look at the lineup and its all guys with NO gimmick. NO flair. Its like, 15 dudes who just stand around making speeches looking all jacked. "Ruck Fules"? That's your thing? Oh look, its a pasty redheaded guy wearing a gaudy medallion. Awesome.
Wrestling was way cooler when there was magic to the characters. The Undertaker fed off of supernatural forces, Mankind was a lunatic with multiple personalities, Kane was still in a mask and was an unstoppable monster, Sting was the disenchanted rebel doling out justice where it was needed, and Goldberg was the undefeated champion that made you feel like there were still people in the world who could achieve anything.
If wrestling ever gets back to that awesome place, I'd like to know about it.
Striker said:
That was an amazing cast. Anyone of those guys could have pulled off a match of the year! Sadly, after that time period, you had Cena and the Great Khali headling a PPV.
EDIT: my point although more implicit is that strong heels and strong faces to feud with top heels and top faces in the new era were/are limited. Part of me believes that John Cena was super booked due to a lack of top heel that could take the ball and run with it. It doesn't help that the WWE's top heel is an announcer!
Net_Wrecker
Member
Moofers said:
Wrestling will never go back to that, and there's no need to. It's a different time now, and nobody buys into the overproduced supernatural crap, just look at the horrible Undertaker/Kane feud from last year. All the theatrics, dramatic music behind promos, urns with light in them, burying someone, etc. just doesn't fly. It's fine if they pass it off as just part of the guy's gimmick (like Undertaker vs. HBK/HHH) but when they try to make it seem "real," it's just not a good fit anymore.
What they need are gimmicks where every wres...superstar has an agenda. Whether that be going after a title, going after another wrestler, searching for competition (like CM Punk's face "love of wrestling" gimmick)going after a tag team, or just out there for comedic purposes, they need to book guys to where everyone has a REASON for doing what they're doing so that people will care. The way they have 90% of the roster walking around with NOTHING going for them is killing divisions, killing title prestige, and obviously, killing buy rates.
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