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[jmdajr]

Wrestling will never go back to that, and there's no need to. It's a different time now, and nobody buys into the overproduced supernatural crap, just look at the horrible Undertaker/Kane feud from last year. All the theatrics, dramatic music behind promos, urns with light in them, burying someone, etc. just doesn't fly. It's fine if they pass it off as just part of the guy's gimmick (like Undertaker vs. HBK/HHH) but when they try to make it seem "real," it's just not a good fit anymore.
.

I call bullshit on the Bombcast guys still watching it if they had kept the comic book characters. They just grew out of it plain and simple.

 

[Basileus777]

Y'know there's more to a heel than a monster or a cheat, right? The Miz was comfortably in that mizzle ground before winning the WWE Title, then all of a sudden he needs every distraction possible before getting a pinfall. The WWE LOVES them some weak cheating heel champs, and overcoming the odds faces, but there's more than that. Compelling TV needs a varied cast of characters, and for a company that currently prides themselves on being "Entertainment," the vanilla booking they push brings NOTHING exciting to the table.

I'll agree with this. I'd certainly like the Miz to get some clean wins and not need Riley for everything. WWE's writing is certainly lacking here, and in most areas. But I think the people saying the Miz looks like a complete fool and is being booked like a joke are going too far.

 

[Dork Knight]

I don't think we need the over-the-top characters of the '80's and '90's, but I *do* think we need more gimmicks in general. And when I say gimmick, I just mean an entertaining character/look/etc.

I think part of the problem is that most new wrestlers brought up (see NXT) just look like random Create-A-Wrestlers. They have no personality or character.

Guys like Zach Ryder, however, have a believable gimmick (Jersey party boy). He's probably not the best example, but at least he has a character, y'know?

I love Cody Rhodes's new gimmick -- face mask and badass hood. That's cool and interesting. Sin Cara is a fucking Aztec Power Ranger. HOLY SHIT!

Then there's Ted Dibiase......

.....


.....


.....

ZZZZzzzzzzZZZzzzzzZZZzzzz.....

 

[jmdajr]

I'll agree with this. I'd certainly like the Miz to get some clean wins and not need Riley for everything. WWE's writing is certainly lacking here, and in most areas. But I think the people saying the Miz looks like a complete fool and is being booked like a joke are going too far.

At least he's kicked out of some finishers. It's a start. I'm willing to give him some time until he gives us a classic match.

 

[dream]

"I think every brand has to re-create itself," he said. "I want everyone to look at us in a vastly different way than they have."

To do that, McMahon plans to go on a spending spree to acquire media assets that could expand WWE's business beyond the ring. In particular, he said, WWE is targeting companies involved in production, live entertainment and branding.

This is not the first time WWE has tried to expand beyond its core. Several years ago it partnered with NBC to launch the XFL, a springtime football league that died after just one season. A restaurant in Times Square also flopped. McMahon said he's learned his lesson from those follies and will stick to the entertainment business.

Some analysts wonder whether WWE wants to grow to position itself for an eventual sale. There are very few independent programmers left, and with its healthy balance sheet WWE might be attractive to one of the bigger media companies. Also, McMahon is 65, and although he's still going strong, there hasn't been a clear heir apparent since his wife, Linda, resigned as chief executive in 2009 to pursue a political career.

At the moment, McMahon, who with his family is controlling shareholder, doesn't sound like a seller.

"We're very independent-minded," he said. "I don't see that happening."

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-ct-wwe-20110407,0,1338014.story

 

[lupinko]

To me, besides the 80s glory years and the Attitude Era/Monday Night Wars/ECW, I really enjoyed the early Ruthless Aggression years, just having Heyman/Bischoff/Vince in one roof (mainly when the former two were rival GMs) had some strange magic to it.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

I don't think we need the over-the-top characters of the '80's and '90's, but I *do* think we need more gimmicks in general. And when I say gimmick, I just mean an entertaining character/look/etc.

I think part of the problem is that most new wrestlers brought up (see NXT) just look like random Create-A-Wrestlers. They have no personality or character.

Guys like Zach Ryder, however, have a believable gimmick (Jersey party boy). He's probably not the best example, but at least he has a character, y'know?

I love Cody Rhodes's new gimmick -- face mask and badass hood. That's cool and interesting. Sin Cara is a fucking Aztec Power Ranger. HOLY SHIT!

Then there's Ted Dibiase......
....
....
..
ZZZZzzzzzzZZZzzzzzZZZzzzz.....

Cody Rhodes is a really good example. Look how much mileage he's getting out of a simple angle like a knee brace hitting him in the nose. The guy's like a badass Batman villain now. I can GUARANTEE that if Un-Dashing wins the title this year, he'll be reverted back into "boring regular Legacy Cody Rhodes" and become the most cowardly heel in history. Then when the IWC hates on his reign, people will say "Oh they just feel like that cause he got pushed."

 

[DKehoe]

So I haven't watched smackdown in forever. With Cody Rhodes gimmick is he actually meant to be disfigured? Or is it him just thinking/pretending he is? He so obviously isn't but the face commentators at Mania were acting like he was.

 

[Basileus777]

So I haven't watched smackdown in forever. With Cody Rhodes gimmick is he actually meant to be disfigured? Or is it him just thinking/pretending he is? He so obviously isn't but the face commentators at Mania were acting like he was.

That commentary was confusing because I thought the point was that Rhodes' disfigurement was in his head. He was this dashing, good looking narcissist obsessed with his face, who got hurt, and now thinks he's hideous.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

So I haven't watched smackdown in forever. With Cody Rhodes gimmick is he actually meant to be disfigured? Or is it him just thinking/pretending he is? He so obviously isn't but the face commentators at Mania were acting like he was.

I take it like he was SO obsessed with himself that even though he healed back to 100% after Rey's brace broke his nose, he's having a "Kane effect" and thinks he looks disfigured so he taking his revenge out on Rey while wearing a face mask clear enough for everyone to see that he's fine, in effect making him look crazy. That's awesome. I mean damn, they can even keep using the mask long after he realizes he's fine by making it his lucky charm or something. The mask can become his equivalent of Bob Orton's arm cast. Hell, they can even have Rhodes, and Orton feud and bring that up.

The commentary is just abysmal, pay no attention to it. Between Michael Cole screaming, and NONE of them being able to get an angle across, you're better off watching matches on mute.

 

[lupinko]

His mask usage reminds me of D'lo's chest protector gimmick actually. lol

 

[DKehoe]

I take it like he was SO obsessed with himself that even though he healed back to 100% after Rey's brace broke his nose, he's having a "Kane effect" and thinks he looks disfigured so he taking his revenge out on Rey while wearing a face mask clear enough for everyone to see that he's fine, in effect making him look crazy. That's awesome. I mean damn, they can even keep using the mask long after he realizes he's fine by making it his lucky charm or something. The mask can become his equivalent of Bob Orton's arm cast. Hell, they can even have Rhodes, and Orton feud and bring that up.

The commentary is just abysmal, pay no attention to it. Between Michael Cole screaming, and NONE of them being able to get an angle across, you're better off watching matches on mute.

I figured that was the case. I've nothing agains the mask, I think its a good gimmick and he needed to ditch the dashing one to move further up the card. I just wasn't sure what the story of it was meant to be, figures it was just the announcers being shitty.

 

[StealthGoblin]

The commentary is just abysmal, pay no attention to it. Between Michael Cole screaming, and NONE of them being able to get an angle across, you're better off watching matches on mute.

That's part of the problem. The commentary has been invaluable in getting people over in the past. When I think of SCSA during his rise, I think of JR yelling at the top of his voice. It really made it more exciting.

BAH GAWD!

Then there was his reaction to Mankind getting thrown off of the HIAC by Taker.

HE'S KILLED HIM!

Josh, Booker, King and Cole really don't get excited about the product like JR did.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Seriously though the one thing that genuinely continues to bother me about Cody is that he doesn't where knee pads. I don't know. He always just looks so weird.

 

[StealthGoblin]

Seriously though the one thing that genuinely continues to bother me about Cody is that he doesn't where knee pads. I don't know. He always just looks so weird.

Glad I'm not the only one. His little boots don't help either.

 

[f3niks]

Holy shit, that was better than WM27 :lol

WWE needs to put him on TV......

THIS!!!


That was pretty damned cool!

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

It almost seems like he's one step away away from being buck nekked from the waist down.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

Seriously though the one thing that genuinely continues to bother me about Cody is that he doesn't where knee pads. I don't know. He always just looks so weird.

:lol it's so true. Del Rio did it a couple of times as well, and it irked me just as much. You'd think fear of injury long term would put the fear of God into them.

 

[NoRéN]

That's part of the problem. The commentary has been invaluable in getting people over in the past. When I think of SCSA during his rise, I think of JR yelling at the top of his voice. It really made it more exciting.

BAH GAWD!

Then there was his reaction to Mankind getting thrown off of the HIAC by Taker.

HE'S KILLED HIM!

Josh, Booker, King and Cole really don't get excited about the product like JR did.

lol. The glory days.

 

[Barrage]

I think the concept is to take the "Normal Personality Turned Up To 11" approach that worked for Austin/Rock/HHH and apply it to everyone on the roster. The problem is that all those guys didn't START there; they had specific gimmicks which molded into exaggerated versions of themselves when they were experienced enough to handle it.

HHH started as the blue-blooded snob, then changed over time into who he is today. Listen to a Rock promo from 1998, and one from Wrestlemania, and you can tell there is a character there that has been toned down.

Let these guys start as an over-the-top character, and then when they have their chops, they can become more realistic. Right now, we're just getting cookie-cutter bouncers from local bars in tights.

 

[krae_man]

Hogan at his best was still better than Cena or Orton. Orton does what three wrestling moves per match? All he does is stomp, punch and headlock otherwise.

Orton has a large number of moves he does per match. Along with the Stomps, Punches and Headlocks he does:

Scoop Slam, Drop Kick, Superplex, Ring Ropes DDT, Angle Slam, Lou Thesz Press, Modified Headlock backbreaker etc. He's no man of 1004 holds or anything but he has way more then 3.

 

[Nocturnowl]

That's part of the problem. The commentary has been invaluable in getting people over in the past. When I think of SCSA during his rise, I think of JR yelling at the top of his voice. It really made it more exciting.

BAH GAWD!

Then there was his reaction to Mankind getting thrown off of the HIAC by Taker.

HE'S KILLED HIM!

Josh, Booker, King and Cole really don't get excited about the product like JR did.

I think that Striker's downfall on commentary was quite a shame since he actually seemed to have the enthusiasm and at times the extra knowledge to make for good commentary. Sadly a few too many screw ups with incorrect factoids and of course Michael Cole being Michael Cole have ended that run.

Best new commentator in the last decade for me was definitely JBL, he made those "Vito in a dress" matches watchable.

 

[jmdajr]

Orton has a large number of moves he does per match. Along with the Stomps, Punches and Headlocks he does:

Scoop Slam, Drop Kick, Superplex, Ring Ropes DDT, Angle Slam, Lou Thesz Press, Modified Headlock backbreaker etc. He's no man of 1004 holds or anything but he has way more then 3.

He's so different now...

man I had forgotten about this...

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Orton has a large number of moves he does per match. Along with the Stomps, Punches and Headlocks he does:

Scoop Slam, Drop Kick, Superplex, Ring Ropes DDT, Angle Slam, Lou Thesz Press, Modified Headlock backbreaker etc. He's no man of 1004 holds or anything but he has way more then 3.

Power slam as well.

 

[DKehoe]

Best new commentator in the last decade for me was definitely JBL, he made those "Vito in a dress" matches watchable.

JBL was great in that MNM vs London/Kendrick vs Regal/Taylor vs the Hardyz ladder match. He starts off burying MNM but by the end they have earned his respect so much.

 

[Professor Beef]

JBL was great in that MNM vs London/Kendrick vs Regal/Taylor vs the Hardyz ladder match. He starts off burying MNM but by the end they have earned his respect so much.

Bleh, can't read lol. Still though, I liked JBL's commentary.

 

[JdFoX187]

If Cody's on top and always booked like superman, yeah that's a valid argument. The problem with Cena and Orton is they're always in the main events, getting 75% of the air time, despite being less than stellar in the ring. They aren't the performers in the ring guys like Christian, Del Rio, Ziggler, Swagger, etc. are. Makes matters worse they've been on this top pedestal for nearly six years. SIX YEARS!

Cena can wrestle. He's proven it many times. Orton also had a much more diverse moveset in his early days. WWE tones down the movesets and in-ring work of their top players. It's plain and simple.

 

[JdFoX187]

Cody Rhodes is a really good example. Look how much mileage he's getting out of a simple angle like a knee brace hitting him in the nose. The guy's like a badass Batman villain now. I can GUARANTEE that if Un-Dashing wins the title this year, he'll be reverted back into "boring regular Legacy Cody Rhodes" and become the most cowardly heel in history. Then when the IWC hates on his reign, people will say "Oh they just feel like that cause he got pushed."

To be fair, I said the IWC hates guys that are constantly pushed, not because they are pushed. Nice twisting of the words there though.

 

[Data West]

JBL was great in that MNM vs London/Kendrick vs Regal/Taylor vs the Hardyz ladder match. He starts off burying MNM but by the end they have earned his respect so much.

I put JBL up there with Heenan and Ventura. He was the only reason I watched Smackdown for the time. Hell, he even referenced Masahiro Chono and Terry Gordy

 

[sajj316]

Cena can wrestle. He's proven it many times. Orton also had a much more diverse moveset in his early days. WWE tones down the movesets and in-ring work of their top players. It's plain and simple.

To prove this point because I know there will be a few that says he can't .. how can you take on Orton (someone else accused with a limited move set) for a darn hour! Vince will not put guys that can't go for a solid hour in an iron man match.

EDIT: can't forget the RAW in London where Cena vs. HBK went 57 minutes!

 

[Barack Lesnar]

What's the next big major PPV where something interesting could happen?

 

[Net_Wrecker]

To be fair, I said the IWC hates guys that are constantly pushed, not because they are pushed. Nice twisting of the words there though.

Ehhh, you know what I mean. It's not about YOU specifically, it's more about the broad feeling of "Of course the IWC turned on him, he got pushed. Time to jump on a new bandwagon." It's really not like that in my view. If you shove someone in your audiences face for years at a time without letting someone else get that shine, or if someone wins a title and does a complete 180 with their gimmick, that hate is justified. It's really not hard to drop Cena, or Orton down the card a bit from time to time. look at the whole thing with John Morrison's title match, are you kidding me? They really couldn't build that until Wrestlemania? They couldn't even build that to the Elimination Chamber PPV? They threw him out of there so quickly just to get Cena back into the title picture when Morrison was putting on more entertaining matches.

To prove this point because I know there will be a few that says he can't .. how can you take on Orton (someone else accused with a limited move set) for a darn hour! Vince will not put guys that can't go for a solid hour in an iron man match.

EDIT: can't forget the RAW in London where Cena vs. HBK went 57 minutes!

No holds barred Iron Man match with like 15 minute wasted on Orton playing with pyro, and rest spots + working a match with HBK. Cena defense force will not trick me into think he's anything more than acceptable.

 

[Kyoufu]

Vince tells Cena to do this every match:

Flying Shoulder Block -> Flying Shoulder Block -> Spin-out Slam -> 5 Knuckle Shuffle -> Attitude Adjustment

Its not Cena's fault. Blame Vince.

 

[DKehoe]

Vince tells Cena to do this every match:

Flying Shoulder Block -> Flying Shoulder Block -> Spin-out Slam -> 5 Knuckle Shuffle -> Attitude Adjustment

Its not Cena's fault. Blame Vince.

It's probably just that Cena has established it as his finishing sequence so when he starts it the crowd knows he could be about to win and starts to cheer. Loads of guys have done the same thing.

 

[Shin Dynamo X]

So I haven't watched smackdown in forever. With Cody Rhodes gimmick is he actually meant to be disfigured? Or is it him just thinking/pretending he is? He so obviously isn't but the face commentators at Mania were acting like he was.

It doesn't matter because the truth is that he is f*cking the hell out of this dime piece:

BEHOLD

 

[Kyoufu]

It's probably just that Cena has established it as his finishing sequence so when he starts it the crowd knows he could be about to win and starts to cheer. Loads of guys have done the same thing.

Aside from brawling, thats all he he has been doing lately. I miss his You Can't See Me vertical suplex

 

[lupinko]

What's the next big major PPV where something interesting could happen?

I dunno, Summerfest?

 

[Penguin]

http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news...nc_news+(WrestlingInc.com+Pro+Wrestling+News)

Jericho/Miz and Maryse hanging out

 

[jmdajr]

It doesn't matter because the truth is that he is f*cking the hell out of this dime piece:

BEHOLD

get outta here!

smoke and mirrors!

 

[Mr. Sam]

The new episode of Zach Ryder's True Long Island Story made me crack up:

"Hey! You don't push me! Nobody pushes me! You hear me? Zach Ryder does not get pushed!"

Also, people are still complaining about wrestlers having finishing sequences? Take it up with Bret Hart.

 

[Kyoufu]

http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news...nc_news+(WrestlingInc.com+Pro+Wrestling+News)

Jericho/Miz and Maryse hanging out

Wasn't Jericho talking shit about Miz on twitter last month? lol

 

[sajj316]

No holds barred Iron Man match with like 15 minute wasted on Orton playing with pyro, and rest spots + working a match with HBK. Cena defense force will not trick me into think he's anything more than acceptable.

Who said I was Cena defense force? I agreed with the point that Cena lacks the ability to tell a story in a point of comparison to Hogan. Something I wish he would improve on.

Can't deny that in the conversation of iron man matches you have Michaels, Hart, Rock, Triple H, Benoit, Angle, Orton, and John Cena. I think you can be acceptable and put on an iron man match.

Oh and regarding the general sentiment that IWC hates characters that get's pushed .. I think what I said was ... "The IWC will love the character on the rise but hate it when they're on top for a while". IWC does not appreciate super bookings like the old days when the crowd wanted to see top faces win.

 

[bjork]

Wrestling will never go back to that, and there's no need to. It's a different time now, and nobody buys into the overproduced supernatural crap, just look at the horrible Undertaker/Kane feud from last year. All the theatrics, dramatic music behind promos, urns with light in them, burying someone, etc. just doesn't fly. It's fine if they pass it off as just part of the guy's gimmick (like Undertaker vs. HBK/HHH) but when they try to make it seem "real," it's just not a good fit anymore.

What they need are gimmicks where every wres...superstar has an agenda. Whether that be going after a title, going after another wrestler, searching for competition (like CM Punk's face "love of wrestling" gimmick)going after a tag team, or just out there for comedic purposes, they need to book guys to where everyone has a REASON for doing what they're doing so that people will care. The way they have 90% of the roster walking around with NOTHING going for them is killing divisions, killing title prestige, and obviously, killing buy rates.

I'm with you on the roster needing purpose. But at the same time, only so many guys can be believable chasing a title, and not everyone can get away with being a guy in trunks. I'd personally love to see some new gimmicks show up. There's a lot of guys/girls who were future endeavored who might've loved to have an over-the-top gimmick to play. Or even one not so ridiculous. Like Bull Buchanan lobbying to bring back the Waylon Mercy character. I mean, Jake Roberts' gimmick was carrying a snake in a bag, and he's still remembered 20 years past his best days by even the most casual fans. Not many of the guys on the roster today will be able to say that.

I feel like WWE is in a position where they really want to capture that UFC audience that they lost, but those folks have moved on and won't be back. So why not play up the show aspect and silliness of it? It's made a jillion dollars for KISS, because who goes to their concerts for the music? You go to see Gene spit fire and blood. Same could be so for WWE.

I think the concept is to take the "Normal Personality Turned Up To 11" approach that worked for Austin/Rock/HHH and apply it to everyone on the roster. The problem is that all those guys didn't START there; they had specific gimmicks which molded into exaggerated versions of themselves when they were experienced enough to handle it.

HHH started as the blue-blooded snob, then changed over time into who he is today. Listen to a Rock promo from 1998, and one from Wrestlemania, and you can tell there is a character there that has been toned down.

Let these guys start as an over-the-top character, and then when they have their chops, they can become more realistic. Right now, we're just getting cookie-cutter bouncers from local bars in tights.

This too, the goony gimmicks of today will weed out who has the staying power of tomorrow. It's ridiculous to expect fans to get behind a guy in trunks just because. Not everyone can be pushed that way like a Goldberg or a Lesnar.

 

[Kano on the Phone]

Wasn't Jericho talking shit about Miz on twitter last month? lol

Wrestling is a work.

 

[Plywood]

http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news...nc_news+(WrestlingInc.com+Pro+Wrestling+News)

Jericho/Miz and Maryse hanging out

Guess Miz and Maryse are still dating.

Also I thought Punk was dating Layla, not Rhodes.

 

[canadian crowe]

http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news...nc_news+(WrestlingInc.com+Pro+Wrestling+News)

Jericho/Miz and Maryse hanging out

Man, James Durbin is a wrestling groupie.

 

[Plywood]

Also I thought it was weird how Miz kept scratching Maryse's back while talking.

 

[Rafa=FedKilla]

Also I thought it was weird how Miz kept scratching Maryse's back while talking.

You gotta do that to french Canadian women or they start begging for food.

 

[Kyoufu]

Also I thought it was weird how Miz kept scratching Maryse's back while talking.

Was keeping her warm?

Rhodes has been dating Layla for a while now.

 

[Plywood]

You gotta do that to french Canadian women or they start begging for food.

:lol

Was keeping her warm?

Rhodes has been dating Layla for a while now.

Oh okay, I couldn't tell if he was rubbing or scratching her.