Punk is constantly in feuds and is always a focal point of the show he's on. Who gives a shit if he never wins a feud? People complain about Punk too much. He's been treated excessively well in WWE and even seems to have been given virtually free reign over his promos in excess of anyone barring HHH.
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April Wrasslin |OT| WrassleMania Sucked
- Thread starter Mr. Sam
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Jericho has been cemented. He's showcased getting strong wins over his career. Over the past two years, what were CM Punk's biggest wins? I recall a "win" over Cena, actually two wins I believe, one by an intentional low blow by Cena which won it for Punk by DQ, and with help of Mason Ryan, pinned him. But at the end of the day, it still didn't exactly make Punk look strong. Mainly due to them just flipping the switch instantly from Punk and Cena, to Miz-Cena and Punk-Orton. Now outside that Cena "win", what else has he gotten that's made him looked strong booking wise? Remember the Big Show "feud" which took the final pin out of the SES? Remember the Undertaker basically squashing him on a Live RAW?
As for his feud with Orton, I will say this. Without Punk's great ability to act and speak, the feud would be nothing for him. He got his stable disbanded, yet again, and wasn't able to put down an injured Orton at the biggest show. He can stay relevant because he has the mic ability to regain heat instantly, but there is also a limit in how much a person can take. He is one of the best workers in the business in overall ring work and mic ability, but he hardly gets the chance to come out on top of things. Always the undercard and an after-thought. He is where he is today because of his mic work, and that's without any thing WWE has done for him. He could be a bigger star if the booking can help him out.
As for his feud with Orton, I will say this. Without Punk's great ability to act and speak, the feud would be nothing for him. He got his stable disbanded, yet again, and wasn't able to put down an injured Orton at the biggest show. He can stay relevant because he has the mic ability to regain heat instantly, but there is also a limit in how much a person can take. He is one of the best workers in the business in overall ring work and mic ability, but he hardly gets the chance to come out on top of things. Always the undercard and an after-thought. He is where he is today because of his mic work, and that's without any thing WWE has done for him. He could be a bigger star if the booking can help him out.
Dork Knight
Member
Orton winning at 'Mania was what I was talking about a few pages back: The WWE (or Vince?) are just too fucking scared to mess with the status quo. Whether the fear is the merch sales will go down or fans will cry because their hero lost...hell if I know!
But heroes can lose. It's OK. In fact, it's more dramatic when they do lose. Because it makes the fans want to see them win EVEN MORE when they come back for the rematch.
But heroes can lose. It's OK. In fact, it's more dramatic when they do lose. Because it makes the fans want to see them win EVEN MORE when they come back for the rematch.
And through all that losing, where has he gotten? He was moved from Smackdown to the show that people actually watch. He was made the top heel on that show. He was put in feuds with the top two faces in the company and has had as much screen time as you could hope for. But yeah, he hasn't won any feuds lately so they must totally hate him.Striker said:
:lolKnox said:
Where did I claim they hate him? He's treated ok, but he could be bigger than what he is. Instead, they're persistent on pushing the superhero gimmicks on Cena and Orton all the time. Even if Miz is champion, do you honestly feel he's been booked accordingly? Nobody takes him seriously. Miz and Punk are the top heels by default. Before Miz was lifted up and before Punk was brought over, who were the top heels in the RAW brand? Answer: Wade Barrett and Nexus, which, to be fair, were nothing after SS when they lost to the Super Friends.
If Miz faces Cena one on one, how much of a chance do you think he has? No winning by DQ or countout included. Do you think they've pushed Miz enough for people to truly believe Miz has a chance? No.
Another video of Scott Hall from last night's show:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Su8cbULm1bI
*sigh*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Su8cbULm1bI
*sigh*
DKehoe
Member
Which is totally fine. With their current roles you could put Miz/Cena in a generic old school storyline and it would work.Kusagari said:
Miz/Cena have regular match. Alex Riley interferes and costs Cena the match (and the title). People buy the match wanting to see Cena win the title, are pissed off that he didn't but know he could have if only it was a fair match.
Build up to cage match (or some other stipulation that makes sense). Let the crowd know that because of the match type Miz isn't going to be able to weasel his way out and Cena is finally going to get him one on one. Fans buy this because now Cena is going to get a real chance to get the title he should have won before.
Of course it doesn't really work the same now since stipulation matches are meaningless as is having the title. But the point is that its ok if people think Cena is the better wrestler than Miz, thats why he is the babyface and Miz is heel.
I'm looking at their treatment of Punk relative to their treatment of heels in general, which I agree would be nice if they changed. My only point was that he is a bigger star now than he was last year at this time and he did it without winning any feuds. The bigger problem is like you said, they don't build their heels to be believable threats, which makes the eventual match less interesting.Striker said:
Pickles the Firecat
Banned
DKehoe said:
Should be able to. Not, is going to. We know that if Cena steps into the ring with a heel he will win unless shenanigans happen. Which means we know that shenanigans are going to happen. Every John Cena match is a countdown to when shenanigans occur, with the question of whether or not he'll be able to overcome them in the end. Overcoming the odds, you know?
In a clean one on one match, John Cena will beat anyone in the company. We know it. The crowd knows it. Kids "think" it. The only way for him to lose is by interference. Well...why not just make it possible for him to lose? That would be a much bigger shock at this point than having him lose any other way imaginable. Hell, I only started watching WWE again about a year ago but the last time I remember Cena being in a clean match that looked close was the Punk series. And by close I mean I actually thought "holy shit they might let Punk win here"
Incidentally, that's why I think Punk losing all the time is irrelevant; he'll almost always lose in a way that makes it seem like he could have won. When Miz loses he looks like a chump that shouldn't have been in the ring with Hornswaggle, let along Cena. Miz looked best in his series against Daniel Bryan, matches where you thought either guy could win. Which makes them both look strong. Well, Miz less so because Bryan keeps getting called a loser by the most prominent voice in the company. But whatever, point remains.
DKehoe said:
People thought the Patriots were a better team than the Giants. The Giants still beat them. That is why a significant amount of people watch sports, because something COULD happen. Right now, the Miz could NEVER, EVER (eeeeeevar) beat Cena. Which means we know for a fact what is going to happen. It makes the product formulaic, and that is never a good thing.
cartoon_soldier
Member
Right now Cena is also instrumental to WWE's business than Miz. When that changes, Miz can become top dog.
This is wrestling not football. Business reasons will drive decisions on Cena's heel turn, or losing or whatever.
This is wrestling not football. Business reasons will drive decisions on Cena's heel turn, or losing or whatever.
DKehoe
Member
But with a guy like Miz the idea is that you make the audience hate him so bad that they don't want to see him have competitive matches, they want someone to beat the shit out of him. Therefore when you match him up against Cena the audience should go "holy shit! John Cena is going to destroy this guy. If I buy this there is no way Miz is getting out of the event without recieving a serious ass kicking" and buy the PPV.
Like I said though, the wrestling business is so fucked right now that the audience no longer really cares about stuff like that.
I'm not saying every heel should be booked like this by the way. You can have heels who are a threat to a face in terms of competiton. I was just trying to show that having Miz the way he is can theoretically draw money.
Like I said though, the wrestling business is so fucked right now that the audience no longer really cares about stuff like that.
I'm not saying every heel should be booked like this by the way. You can have heels who are a threat to a face in terms of competiton. I was just trying to show that having Miz the way he is can theoretically draw money.
I just hate how the heels are booked into two archetypes in this day and age. You have the dastardly cowardly heel that will do whatever he can to win and get out as quickly as possible. Or you have the monster heels that can destroy anyone and it takes a superman face to take them down and win the day.
Of course, this is classic professional wrestling booking 101, but surely there needs to be a change. The industry has to evolve at some point.
Of course, this is classic professional wrestling booking 101, but surely there needs to be a change. The industry has to evolve at some point.
DKehoe
Member
Mr. Enigma
Member
This shitbag promoter that allowed him to go out like this should never be allowed to promote a show ever again.
Carnby
Member
As a "smark" who do you mark out for?
I admit to marking out for both Orton and CM Punk, which was more of a reason I enjoyed their WM27 match.
edit: I would like to mark out for JoMo, but he really needs a make over. I can't get behind his rock star gimmick and terrible faux-Lenny Kravitz theme song.
I admit to marking out for both Orton and CM Punk, which was more of a reason I enjoyed their WM27 match.
edit: I would like to mark out for JoMo, but he really needs a make over. I can't get behind his rock star gimmick and terrible faux-Lenny Kravitz theme song.
Professor Beef
Banned
Until things went completely south, Jeff Hardy.jaekwon15 said:
Other than him? The Rock, Kofi, Cody Rhodes, Dolph, and JoMo (although we'll soon see what happens to him).
In the past though, I was a huge mark for Too Cool, Kaientai (thanks to the lol-dubs), and The Hurricane (especially with his feud with The Rock).
Ninja Scooter
Member
TNA should sign Hall, have him and Hardy fight in a "Vicodin on a rope" ladder match.
Ninja Scooter
Member
DKehoe said:
I don't know, when the rest of Hall's clique buddies seem to be adjusting well in their old age, it makes me think that Hall would have been messed up no matter what.
Jeff Albertson
Member
It's all about the long island iced Z bro!jaekwon15 said:
Woo woo woo, you know it!
Ninja Scooter
Member
DKehoe said:
True. It's what made me laugh when people used to criticize Rock for getting the fuck out in favor of a movie career. Yeah, he has to dress up like a Tooth Fairy and do kiddie movies, but he's getting paid millions of dollars for 6 weeks worth of work, not busting his ass and destroying his body 300 days out of the year for less money.
DKehoe
Member
Yeh, Rock made 30 million dollars in one year. He couldn't make anywhere near that wrestling and doesn't have to put himself nearly the amount that wrestling would demand. Besides, he did pretty much everything there was to do in wrestling if he wanted to try something else then thats cool.Ninja Scooter said:
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
9/10 on the Orange-o-meter
BoboBrazil
Member
Just saw the Tough Enough premiere. It was awesome how they found out that girl was just there to be famous and didn't know anything about wrestling and got rid of her the first show. I think the big dude that has a 1 year old and another kid on the way is going to win it all. He has the look WWE is looking for.
Rafa=FedKilla
Banned
I don't know why Meltzer and co. keep making excuses for Lesnar. He is probably one of the biggest wimps to ever step foot in a wrestling ring.DKehoe said:
Ninja Scooter
Member
antonz said:
there's a difference with a personal picture of you and your wife being posted online, and having her become a WWE character on TV every week.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
You're the first person that's noticed.xTOOLx said:
Ninja Scooter
Member
xTOOLx said:
It's from his skin being very orange. Tanning is not good for you.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Well every wrestler looks like that after a decade of doing it. They all look really aged in person because their bodies are such wrecks and they don't sleep well.
Ninja Scooter said:
So true.
There's a reason why so many wrestlers have tried (and failed) to transition to a movie career.
Nobody wants to do a 300 day per year grind. NOBODY. You can't have any semblance of a normal life being on the road for that amount of time over multiple years.
Austin said it best on Tough Enough - "I've got 2 girls. Because of this business, how many times do you think I won Father of the Year?"
Barack Lesnar
Banned
That line was great and I gained more respect for him. He's a legit, no BS kinda guy.bill0527 said:
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
That line was a brutal cliche and I hated it.Heavy said:
Dork Knight
Member
xTOOLx said:
Just watched this interview http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tw1gV7_zQVs&feature=youtube_gdata_player (with a John Cena interruption) with Randy Orton before that match.
John Cena was actually really entertaining here. His closing comment made me LOL!
Arrowgigantic
Member
Later tonight, she will get the wobbly leg and that's how Randy will know that C.M. Punk has clicked the link.DMczaf said:
http://twitter.com/ShawnMichaels_/status/56584684611715072
My phone battery is running out nite all. Goodnite Randy Orton...wherever you are
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