Batman lite has never been a secret.
I'm fine with them stealing shit from Batman as long as there's no better alternatives, which is usually the case for Green Arrow.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Arrow Season 4 |OT| A Tale of Salt and Fire
- Thread starter ZeroX03
- Start date
- Status
Batman lite has never been a secret.
I'm fine with them stealing shit from Batman as long as there's no better alternatives, which is usually the case for Green Arrow.
yeah everyone and their mothers knew ... but it is good to FINALY have a confirmation from the show itself
Stallion Dan
Member
That's 2, what are the other 48 reasons?
PreFire
Member
Decent episode, but
Oliver couldn't tell Felicity was tripping balls on her meds/bugging out? She kept looking behind him, whatever it's not a big deal.
Poor editing during one of Diggle's fight scene. They literally blurred out the stunt doubles face. It looks so stupid. What were they thinking? Lol
Thea's actor must have been sick, because her character is there, not saying any lines at all and the camera never focuses on her, leading me to believe they only used her stunt double.
Finally a flashback connection with Junior Diggle and that psycho dude from the island. Junior Diggle not to be trusted.
Cool, they show Amanda Waller, and she gets shot in the head. Idk if they've shown her before, I haven't watched every episode of Arrow
Loved the Barry name drop.
They're making Laurel look prettier somehow.. Ollie and Laurel gonna get back together lol
The fight scenes were not good this week, IMO. Especially ones involving little Diggle. It was pretty weird seeing CW show a war scene involving an explosion and 2 dead bodies flying. I like it
Oliver couldn't tell Felicity was tripping balls on her meds/bugging out? She kept looking behind him, whatever it's not a big deal.
Poor editing during one of Diggle's fight scene. They literally blurred out the stunt doubles face. It looks so stupid. What were they thinking? Lol
Thea's actor must have been sick, because her character is there, not saying any lines at all and the camera never focuses on her, leading me to believe they only used her stunt double.
Finally a flashback connection with Junior Diggle and that psycho dude from the island. Junior Diggle not to be trusted.
He might get John killed
Cool, they show Amanda Waller, and she gets shot in the head. Idk if they've shown her before, I haven't watched every episode of Arrow
Loved the Barry name drop.
They're making Laurel look prettier somehow.. Ollie and Laurel gonna get back together lol
The fight scenes were not good this week, IMO. Especially ones involving little Diggle. It was pretty weird seeing CW show a war scene involving an explosion and 2 dead bodies flying. I like it
The Flash had the Wayne-Queen merger going through in 2024, Vandal Savage confirmed defeating both Superman and Batman. Batman, Superman and very likely Supergirl are out there.
They have, and they have wasted her by never showing her together with Slade or Boomerang.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
I wonder how much of the shit drama is done to make up for not having the budget to good fight/action scenes on even a semi-regular basis anymore. The pandering to shippers and Felicity fans in general seems to be something to make up for crappy writing because it seems to distract a good size portion of the audience about all the shit going on around it. Then again, a lot of those people only really care about their ship and Felicity in the first place.
serenewarfare
Banned
Oliver/Laurel is an inevitability. It's not a matter of if, just when. But I'm glad they've kept them apart as long as they have. It has allowed Laurel to have a lot of character growth. It'll feel a lot more natural if/when they get back together.
Plasticine
Member
serenewarfare
Banned
Search your feelings. You know it to be true.
Ok, so, hear me out:
Oliver prevented all that shit from happening on the cross-over (where they all die to Randal Savage) by, instead of having a fight with Felicity because he didn't want to tell her about his kid with that other lady in Central City, saying that he would tell Felicity the truth later and proceeded to not tell her the truth, right.
What if he does, and when he does, Felicity goes all crazy and breaks up with him (either because he has to stay with his kid or because he lied to her once again). That would explain why she doesn't have her ring in the flashback. It also circles back to Oliver talking about "that time when Barry went back in time" and "you can't escape from your past".
What if Oliver then tries to get closer to his son/that other girl and Dhark finds out and kills one/both of them? Would explain why Barry showed up at the funeral (the first time was to throw us off with it being Felicity, but it's just a Central City connection).
Killing the son of the man you love, a kid none the less, would explain the "you have to kill him" quote from Felicity.
And that's my theory, that somebody else probably already came up with, but I didn't read the whole thread and it's 5:30 am.
Oliver prevented all that shit from happening on the cross-over (where they all die to Randal Savage) by, instead of having a fight with Felicity because he didn't want to tell her about his kid with that other lady in Central City, saying that he would tell Felicity the truth later and proceeded to not tell her the truth, right.
What if he does, and when he does, Felicity goes all crazy and breaks up with him (either because he has to stay with his kid or because he lied to her once again). That would explain why she doesn't have her ring in the flashback. It also circles back to Oliver talking about "that time when Barry went back in time" and "you can't escape from your past".
What if Oliver then tries to get closer to his son/that other girl and Dhark finds out and kills one/both of them? Would explain why Barry showed up at the funeral (the first time was to throw us off with it being Felicity, but it's just a Central City connection).
Killing the son of the man you love, a kid none the less, would explain the "you have to kill him" quote from Felicity.
And that's my theory, that somebody else probably already came up with, but I didn't read the whole thread and it's 5:30 am.
It is absolutely a possibility, although I don't think they'll break up. They still came together to the funeral despite both of them having their own black driver. There will be relational drama, but I think they'll stick through with each other.
The identity of the killer, I'm not convinced on.
The identity of the killer, I'm not convinced on.
Jorok Goldblade
Member
What if he's working for Dahrk to sniff out the Green Arrow's identity?
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Oracle mention was the opposite of a "fuck you"
Felicity getting that name would be a"fuck you"
Ra's getting killed and dumbass Malcolm replacing him was a "fuck you" to the fans.
Oracle line was perfect because it actually respects the source material, not cannibalizing it for a weaker subject.
Spikematic
Member
Decent episode with some horribly-shot action scenes. Was surprised to see what happened to Waller but I guess they just want to shed everything related to Suicide Squad now to make way for the movie.
One scene that I felt stood out in particular was Oliver and Laurel sparring. The conversation felt very real and grounded for the show and I was pleasantly surprised to see Laurel being so rational. Also she looked absolutely fantastic, the best she's looked in a while even. Felicity coming to terms with her disability and focusing on her job was a great surprise too, I was bracing myself for her moping around for at least half the season. Hope the writers keep this up so I don't feel the urge to roll my eyes at every female in this show.
One scene that I felt stood out in particular was Oliver and Laurel sparring. The conversation felt very real and grounded for the show and I was pleasantly surprised to see Laurel being so rational. Also she looked absolutely fantastic, the best she's looked in a while even. Felicity coming to terms with her disability and focusing on her job was a great surprise too, I was bracing myself for her moping around for at least half the season. Hope the writers keep this up so I don't feel the urge to roll my eyes at every female in this show.
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
Watched the last two episodes back to back. I did like the idea of Thea having her own villain in "Blood Debts." She created him, she has to deal with him. Considering how big the team is, it would be nice if we got more stories like that for Laurel or Diggle.
The hallucinations in "A.W.O.L." were so hamfisted...I'm not convinced that anytime goth Felicity shows up, I should just skip that episode. I'm still of the opinion that The Secret Origin of Felicity Smoake was the worst episode the series has had so far. But at least we got to see her come out the other end of her injury and remember why she is so important to the team. And Diggle finally getting his brother back was nice. Getting some connections between Dhark, the island, and Little Diggle.
Waller getting put down like that was surprising. But I guess they're just cleaning that Suicide Squad slate completly. Not really that upset about it.
The hallucinations in "A.W.O.L." were so hamfisted...I'm not convinced that anytime goth Felicity shows up, I should just skip that episode. I'm still of the opinion that The Secret Origin of Felicity Smoake was the worst episode the series has had so far. But at least we got to see her come out the other end of her injury and remember why she is so important to the team. And Diggle finally getting his brother back was nice. Getting some connections between Dhark, the island, and Little Diggle.
Waller getting put down like that was surprising. But I guess they're just cleaning that Suicide Squad slate completly. Not really that upset about it.
Fans thinking anything is a purposeful attempt to piss them off is a "fuck you" to common sense.
It backfired, I care extra because she didn't care. I don't think it was actually their idea to make it seem like she didn't care, they gave her little moments to have it shine through that she did care about Lyla and others. She just needs to put up a though exterior, maybe more in her case because she looks so young.
It's not that Waller doesn't care, it's that she's always focused on the big picture and can detach herself from personal connections. From the sounds of things, Rubicon would end up killing a lot more people than were in the ARGUS building. She certainly likes Lyla quite a bit, and probably Oliver too. She just wouldn't hesitate to kill them all if it put more lives at risk. Really, she cares more than anyone.
Would be cool if Lyla got the reigns to ARGUS and
, but that's wishful thinking.
okay that's a stretch
Would be cool if Lyla got the reigns to ARGUS and
Nyssa finally takes over the league next week
It makes sense in the upcoming Flash crossover context that she goes back and becomes the boss.
It would explain why Diggle and her go pick up King Shark
It could help push Malcolm over the edge, leading to his return to villainry. It would also solidify Nyssa as the warrior princess she is.
Yeah I figured
Lyla and Diggle working on operation King Shark would be something like that. Nyssa is the best, but if she takes over the League then that would spell the end of any Nanda Parbat related drama because the show has proven time and time again that Nyssa is too intelligent and competent to use the League in stupid ways like Ra's and Malcolm.
They can always have drama by having Nyssa hunt someone that Arrow needs to protect or the other way around. Something like Sara used to be.
It would be enough for 1-2 fights with regular members, or a 3way fight between the target, Oliver and Nyssa to fill up an episode after which they can hug it out. Maybe make a couple of quips about still being married.
Arrow's choreography and fight scenes haven't been good since season 2. I'll allow the first Ra's vs Arrow fight in the previous season but that's it.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
They obviously don't intend it that way because they want to create an interesting show.
However stuff like that is a fuck you to anyone that cares about the source.
You are literally stealing better more popular material and applying it to your own thing trying to pass it off as something special.
No, it's not a fuck you to anyone who cares about the source. It's people overreacting and taking things personally.
If you call Felicity Oracle, there is zero disrespect to Babs or her fans. It's just a name and a new interpretation. You can feel free to dislike it but it doesn't lessen the original Oracle in any way. It's just a name. Mantles are used/given/inherited every day in comics. Sometimes they work better, sometimes they don't.
I'm not happy about how Wally is being portrayed on Flash. So far he's been a poor adaptation of a shitty reboot (his New 52 character). But it's not a personal attack on me, or hatred from the writers and it doesn't take anything away from Wally's twenty or so years of being the best fucking superhero in the game. On the flip side, this Barry has been a big step up from most of his previous incarnations, poor dating decisions aside.
And it's absolutely not stealing, DC/WB owns all these characters. They should feel free to reinvent or play with them however they want and they should be evaluated on how well they do and what does or doesn't work. Felicity is a big step up from the minor character she was. Batman TAS reinvented a joke like Mr. Freeze into something tragic and emotionally affecting.
brotkasten
Member
Like I said many times before, the problem is that they're trying to shove so many characters into the fighting scenes, that it looks like they're dancing with the enemies.
And the problem only gets worse as the team grows. At least that's how I see it.
It's "working" on Legends, although they can use a lot of flashy lights and effects to hide stunt work and vice versa. Today's episode had two very chaotic fight scenes, but they worked.
Arrow is often biting off more than it can chew/afford with fight scenes I think. It was obvious in James Bamford's episode where what he wanted to do was beyond his directorial skills and steadicam ops talent. It was still ambitious and mostly worked though.
brotkasten
Member
I don't watch LoT, but the bold part is exactly what I said in my post after watching the episode. It's a shame, too, because they're usually so proud of the stunt work and they put so much work into it, but it rarely comes out right.
Heck, I even thought the stunt reel that was posted during the break looked most of the times better than what was shown in the episodes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6HyhVueOcM
Laurel's sober now, fully back on track as an ADA and into her hero training. I've said it before but I think Laurel's had the most growth of any of the characters over the four seasons.
MHWilliams
Member
I'm really not seeing it. He's married and I can't see them killing Felicity as they've already thrown away the chance here.
It's somewhat like - as I bought up in the Flash thread - TVD, where they wrote themselves into one direction due to the actors' natural chemistry and now they're stuck. The novels had one pairing, but the show ultimately decided on a different one. I believe the same will be true of Oliver/Laurel as their options are to kill the married lady in a wheelchair, kill the married lady after she regains the use of her legs, or just somehow break them up without removing her from the show.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Agree to disagree then, because to me regardless of WB owning both its stealing the work of better writers and better characters to attempt elevating lesser material.
Biggest example is Huntress, they take a decent extended Batfamily character and turn her into a crazy cop killer. For what to spice up a Green Arrow show for an episode or 2?
For me the first season was absolutely amazing as was 80% of season 2 but the more stuff like that they try turns me off of Green Arrow as a whole.
Putting Ra's in doesn't make Arrow look good to me it makes it look like Green Arrow can't carry a show.
As far as a reinvention though I will absolutely give Arrow credit on a certain things
Could have been the awful comic version or a Talia ripoff, they did a great job making a great version of the character i'd like to see the comics adapt (
Arkham Knight
I also liked the addition of Sara Lance.
I finally realized why i completely dislike arrow now.
1) Oliver/Green arrow isn't as formidable as he was in season 1 and 2. A big reason for this is everyone has become a superhero.
2) The show has no life outside of the arrow cave. Mama arrow gone, detective invisible, Oliver isn't a billionaire and has no company to run, no club......basically it's killed the side drama and relies on action when the budget has been truncated so that part is not as compelling. (Don't even talk about the felicity crap)
3) The flash back dead. If they spent a little more time to build the drama and characaters there maybe that would help?
4) Arrow does not only kill but he isn't as driven even after losing his mother.
5) And lastly super powers. Made especially worse because of point number 1.
6) Argus can't even imitate agents of shield? Seriously. How hard is it to flesh out that kind of organization?
1) Oliver/Green arrow isn't as formidable as he was in season 1 and 2. A big reason for this is everyone has become a superhero.
2) The show has no life outside of the arrow cave. Mama arrow gone, detective invisible, Oliver isn't a billionaire and has no company to run, no club......basically it's killed the side drama and relies on action when the budget has been truncated so that part is not as compelling. (Don't even talk about the felicity crap)
3) The flash back dead. If they spent a little more time to build the drama and characaters there maybe that would help?
4) Arrow does not only kill but he isn't as driven even after losing his mother.
5) And lastly super powers. Made especially worse because of point number 1.
6) Argus can't even imitate agents of shield? Seriously. How hard is it to flesh out that kind of organization?
Razgriz-Specter
Member
I wish they'd do full flashback episodes at times.
Constantine episode for example could have easily done it.
Season 1's were/are the best part of the show.
I was thinking about this last night. I miss the junkie Thea drama, mom conspiracy, and Tommy love triangle.
King Gilga
Member
Wow, the stunts in that reel do look so much better than the actual show.
BewareTheBatsie
Member
Season 2 for me, since they were the last time they began feeling properly relevant. Season 2 had Oliver on the island dealing with Slade while over in real life he was dealing with Slade too. Season 3's flashbacks only came relevant in what, the last four episodes or so? And season 4 so far hasn't shown much either. Constantine was fun but for one episode. They should spend the season just focusing on building Oliver's skills up since at the moment I can't buy that in just a year or so he'll be season 1.
We still have Oliver lacking many of his skills currently. He needs to learn Russian (not sure if he has any other languages to learn), and then how to fly a plane, meet Anatoly to earn that Bratva tattoo. Have we seen him learn how to make his own arrows properly as opposed to just sharpening a rock and tying it to something?
Hal Jordan is also becoming Green Lantern!
Plasticine
Member
brotkasten
Member
I wonder if TV is the way to go for GL, because I don't think WB is doing another movie anytime soon.
is what I wanted to post, but thankfully I did a quick Google search first, before embarrassing myself.
yeah he'll never show up in Arrowverse but it's neat to know he exists in the world
Jorok Goldblade
Member
There's also Harley Quinn in Argus custody, which means that Batman has to have been in business long enough to catch the Joker, have him turn Harley and escape, then catch her.
There's also Snart eyeing a big chunk of what looks like
Kryptonite
OdysseusVA
Banned
I hate him so much.
- Status