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Australian Open 2017 OT

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I thought 2008 Wimbledon final between those two was considered one of the greatest match of all time?

LOL people say that.

Mostly for the timing of the rivalry, and the tension of the match. Like they were dead even, and Fed was the worlds ambassador in spirit and owner of the keys to wimbledon. In terms of quality of that match, we've seen that so many times over the last decade. Matches just as good if not better. So many crazy back and forth 5 setters, where the quality was immaculate.

Nadal beating Verdasco in Australia in that famous 5 setter. Happened when they slowed the game down. When it was faster, like in the 90s, you would have far less 5 setters, and many more blow outs.
 

MarveI

Member
predicting the scoreline

6-0, 6-2, 6-1 Nadal.

How many more jinx posts do we have to read ? I feel like you're repeating the same things over and over again hoping to jinx your guy into winning the final but come on man. It's not a good look.

Rafa-Fed will be MUCH more competitive than Fed-Dimitrov. Yet you keep posting how the final will be so lopsided yet fail to even look at the other matchup which is even more lopsided.

Good luck to both Rafa and Fed in the final. The true 2 goats of tennis.
 

Xun

Member
I have no idea what to expect for the rest of 2017. Murray and Djokovic should bounce back, but considering they both went out when no expected, something is affecting their games.

And for Federer and Nadal to start the year like this, it's hard to tell if they are about to burn out or have a great year ahead of them.
I think for Murray it's simply exhaustion, but I might be wrong.

Djokovic certainly hasn't been the same for a while though.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Wimbledon '08 is remembered for the drama. The highest quality Fedal final was either AO '09 or Rome '06.
 
I think Nadal got a good draw. Lucky not to get someone too dangerous when he had to play in the sun. It's not like he's playing even better than last year, or there is some resurgence. He's been playing at this level for the past year, it appears to me. He is still dropping a lot of his forehands short. Obviously, not close to prime Nadal, but doesn't have to be.

Fed will have to attack, he knows what to do. And if he serves well enough, he should have a shot. It's not like Nadal is generating monster spin off the court, but I dunno, it still looks like the kinda court Nadal would beat Fed on.

Might put a little on Nadal to win, if the odds are right.

In terms of most impressive display of skills and performance from Fed, not a match of rivalry and tension, it's clearly his first two wimbledon wins. Those conditions, combined with him using the new strings that allows people to play the way they do, allowed for the most sublime and unrealistic looking tennis ever. Easily returning 140mph serves from Roddick.

The hyperbole for Fed at that moment, holeeeeeeeee shit. The commentators, man I can still remember, me and my room mate, laughing at how much they were just in absolute fucking awe of him. THen everyone got those strings few years later. And they had to respond by slowing the courts and balls down, which hurt Fed a lot.
 

bionic77

Member
Want Fed to win one last major but I don't see that happening against Rafa.

Fed gets a little advantage because he gets an extra day of rest and if he is to have a chance he needs to get the first set. If he does not win the first against Rafa its a wrap.
 

Bigfoot

Member
Want Fed to win one last major but I don't see that happening against Rafa.

Fed gets a little advantage because he gets an extra day of rest and if he is to have a chance he needs to get the first set. If he does not win the first against Rafa its a wrap.
Federer usually starts out strong against Nadal so even if he gets the first set, it means nothing. I wouldn't even bet on Fed against Nadal even if Roger was up 2 sets and a break in the third.
 
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Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Bookies have it surprisingly close - derived percentages are 55.55% for Nadal and 44.45% for Federer. I think I'd take a flutter on Nadal at those odds, but what do I know.
 

Deku Tree

Member
The same argument can be made against Rafa. Weak competition, especially on clay where he has most of his titles.

For the record that's not what I think, these are two enormous champions with different profiles and qualities. I really don't know who I'd put ahead of the other.

In any case that's crazy to see them back in the final, especially given what happened recently in their careers.

Rafa had to compete against Fed and Djokovic in their prime.
 
What a match. Vintage Nadal from 15-40 down at *3-4, staring at defeat. Took on his backhand down the line then net charged repeatedly to Dimitrov's backhand and almost completely broke his opponent's spirit inside a run of 6 points. Credit to Dimitrov though for a hell of a fight, even after that swing.

After such a great tournament, I really hope that Sunday's final isn't a bust. It might be the single most important match in tennis history in GOAT debates. Either Federer removes all doubt, returning from a injury to immediately become the oldest man to win a Slam since Ken Rosewall in 1972, or Nadal beats him once more in Slam final, becomes the first man ever to win each Slam twice, narrows the gap to 2, with a great chance of winning at least another French. It's also going to draw in a lot of viewers.

Mats Wilander was speculating that with the courts sped up this year it's heavily advantaged the older players who grew up playing on faster surfaces (or unorthodox players like Mischa Zverev who habitually net rush). Dimitrov being such a naturally talented player half-volleys and slices come naturally to him in a way they do for few others of his age. Hopefully other tournaments copy the AO, if only for commercial reasons.
 

MarveI

Member
If Söderling hadn't beaten Nadal that time Federer would probably still be without a French Open. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

That's a bit unfair. Rafa lost. No excuses for that match and tournament.

If it wasn't for Rafa Fed would've probably had at least 3-4 more RG slams.
Likewise if it wasn't for Fed Rafa would've had most likely 2 more Wimbledon titles.
 
Rafa had to compete against Fed and Djokovic in their prime.

And also got to compete when the balls and conditions were slowed down to perfectly suit him. And also more defensive players like Djocko.

Fed was able to dominate in two different eras, that are dramatically different. I'm being a bit of a devils advocate, since the best competition he had for a couple years was Hewitt. I do admit Fed took advantage of this transition in tennis, but you also have to be good enough to take advantage and that is impressive itself.
 

Diamond

Member
Rafa had to compete against Fed and Djokovic in their prime.

Still, on clay it's a very one-sided affair. And if Federer built his legacy against weak competition, well the competition he represents is lessened too.
I'm just trying to show it's all a matter of perspective. Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Borg, Sampras. Nobody is "clearly" ahead of the others.

Speaking of the 2008 final, the 4th set tie-break is still one of the best tennis moments of the last decade.
 
If Söderling hadn't beaten Nadal that time Federer would probably still be without a French Open. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Hmmmmm, you'd have to take a look at the draw, but that is unlikely. It was a wet and heavy French open that year. Nadals shots couldn't do shit. His knees were off. Everything was falling short and it was far too heavy for his spin to take. He probably would've lost to someone else, I think.

Anyway, Soderling played even better in the final a few years later when Nadal won, but that was on a dry sunny Paris day. So it's not like Soderling was unbeatable that day, Nadal just wasn't actually very good that RG, conditions and knees.
 
Seems this match is going to reignite the old argument of who is really the greatest of all time. I feel like that argument has died down since djockovic started dominating and was breathing down both players necks in terms of slams won.

The aftermath of Sunday is possibly going to be more intense than the match.
 

bionic77

Member
Federer usually starts out strong against Nadal so even if he gets the first set, it means nothing. I wouldn't even bet on Fed against Nadal even if Roger was up 2 sets and a break in the third.
I disagree.

If Fed is up and playing relaxed he is just a different player.

Nadal has had great success against him because he continues to apply relentless pressure and gives him no easy points. sets, etc.

I do agree that Nadal could come back if he loses the first set. But I don't think Fed can.
 
I disagree.

If Fed is up and playing relaxed he is just a different player.

Nadal has had great success against him because he continues to apply relentless pressure and gives him no easy points. sets, etc.

I do agree that Nadal could come back if he loses the first set. But I don't think Fed can.

Oh man, it as like clockwork that Fed would win the first set against Novak in GS finals, and have the break in the second but then go onto lose the match.

Fed is the more aggressive player, hits it with less margin, little more streaky. When you have to be that perfect, it's hard to keep the act up.
 
Oh snap, I just heard about the finals matchup.

Venus vs Serena and Nadal vs Federer.

Legendary.

I was hoping Nadal and Fed could go at it one more time in this new era.
 
Still, on clay it's a very one-sided affair. And if Federer built his legacy against weak competition, well the competition he represents is lessened too.
I'm just trying to show it's all a matter of perspective. Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Borg, Sampras. Nobody is "clearly" ahead of the others.

Speaking of the 2008 final, the 4th set tie-break is still one of the best tennis moments of the last decade.

Yep, that breaker in the 4th was something else. I vividly remember two points. Nadal hitting a stunning passing shot for championship point and him attacking the Federer backhand, racing to the net after a really good approach shot and Federer just nailed it past him. It was incredible.

I think it's a match that caught fire after a subdued Federer lost the first two sets, but it's more a match of classic moments than it being an all round great game of tennis. Certainly, there have been better five setters over the years, but in terms of what it represented, it was one of those rare moments in sport where the occasion transcended the small confines of the tennis court. To a certain extent, this match could potentially do that as well, as there's so much on the line. First, we need a great tennis match, but if you were writing the Hollywood script, unlike in 2008 were the perfect narrative had to be Nadal dethroning Federer, this time around, you'd pick Federer to win to close off their rivalry.

I'm a massive Nadal fan, so I want him to win, but the perfect narrative is Federer beating Nadal in a classic. Federer overcoming his nemesis to nail that elusive 18th slam is sort of perfect.
 

bionic77

Member
Oh man, it as like clockwork that Fed would win the first set against Novak in GS finals, and have the break in the second but then go onto lose the match.

Fed is the more aggressive player, hits it with less margin, little more streaky. When you have to be that perfect, it's hard to keep the act up.
Fed is also old.

Nadal is younger and I think that will play a big difference if the match goes to a 4th and 5th set.

Fed needs to go up quickly to have a chance IMO.
 
Fed is also old.

Nadal is younger and I think that will play a big difference if the match goes to a 4th and 5th set.

Fed needs to go up quickly to have a chance IMO.

At the same time I think tennis has taken more of a toll on Nadals body. Regardless both have shown this tournament that they can get things done in 5 sets. I don't think fitness will be the determining factor in this game.
 
At the same time I think tennis has taken more of a toll on Nadals body. Regardless both have shown this tournament that they can get things done in 5 sets. I don't think fitness will be the determining factor in this game.

I remember being surprised in the 2009 final when after drawing level at 2 sets apiece, Federer just fell away and looked the more tired of the two. This was after Nadal's epic SF against Verdasco as well, so I really did feel as though the match was Federer's. However, he came apart in the fifth.

It's hard to call this one, though. So many unknowns, and despite Nadal's achievement in getting to the final, there's enough evidence to say that Federer has a great shot at winning this.

Well, it's happening :) This final is history of tennis in the making, a game for the ages.

THE LAST FEDAL
After finding the two pieces of the map to Australia, two old adversaries do battle one last time for the fate of the universe. Starring Roger Federer, Rafa Nadal and Adam Driver as a petulant umpire.

Stay tuned for a teaser trailer for THE DJOKOVIC STRIKES BACK Summer 2017
 

MarveI

Member
I think if Fed serves well I don't think Rafa can win it like that. He's better than last year but still far away from the player he was in 2013. Fed on the other hand is playing really well and serving well and with these courts this year I see him as the fav.
 

JBwB

Member
Yeah Federer's serve has to be on point otherwise Nadal will just grind him down in the rallies.

I'm a massive Nadal fan, so I want him to win, but the perfect narrative is Federer beating Nadal in a classic. Federer overcoming his nemesis to nail that elusive 18th slam is sort of perfect.

Sounds like a fairy tail ending.

I hope it happens!
 
I think it depends where Fed is at mentally. There is no question that Nadals dominance got to him and caused him to play worse. He has been this far in recent years and has even come close to winning. We've been here before with Fed taking the lead in a GS final or semi final only to collapse and fall apart.

If he plays as well as the rest of the tournament he has a good chance and I'd probably consider him favourite. Based on his performances in big matches in recent years it's difficult to back him.
 
Federer probably thought he was done playing matches that would help define his career. Welp, this match coming up could either solidify his GOAT status, or could open the door for Nadal to overtake him in a couple years if he adds a couple more French titles.
 

Zushin

Member
I put 5 bucks on Fed when the odds of him winning were at $21. Guess that's who I'm barracking for. I think Nadal will win at this stage though.
 

Boogs31

Member
Even if Nadal wins the final this talk that he would surpass Federer is silly. Federer would still have twice as many Australian Open titles, a 5-2 edge in U.S. Open titles, and a 7-2 edge at Wimbledon. Federer would not only still have two more major titles, but he has a significant edge in major final, semifinal and quarterfinal appearances. If you count indoor hardcourts as a separate surface, Federer has a more impressive resume on 3 of the 4 surfaces they play on. The only two arguments people can make for Nadal is their head to head and clay court play. The only reason Nadal has more masters 1000 wins is because the ATP season has 3 clay court masters 1000 tournaments and 0 grass court ones. As far as their head to head is concerned, it's a bad matchup for Federer. Being left handed and being a defensive minded player are just traits that a player has. Those characteristics don't make you a good player. But it just so happens that those traits immediately puts Roger at a disadvantage in their match-ups. Are there any other left handed defensive players on tour? If there are it's a small number. So Federer can't prepare for Nadal like he can against anyone else. While Nadal is without a doubt the greatest clay court player ever and definitely a top 5 player of all time, he is not anywhere near the point where we should be talking about him surpassing Federer.
 
How many more jinx posts do we have to read ? I feel like you're repeating the same things over and over again hoping to jinx your guy into winning the final but come on man. It's not a good look.
.

My favourite player ever just made a fairy tale come back after 6 months off and made me feel like #18 is possible and now that dream is over. he'll get easily beaten by his main rival making Rafa the goat in most people's opinion.

It's like winning the lottery then getting run over by a car when you leave the bank after cashing the check.


Let me pout for a bit, i need it.
And it's not a jinx, i honestly don't have even a tiny bit of faith.
 

lucius

Member
Nadal has to win more Wimbledon titles which is possible. They are both kind of fortunate to be in the finals avoiding Murray Joker.
 
My favourite player ever just made a fairy tale come back after 6 months off and made me feel like #18 is possible and now that dream is over. he'll get easily beaten by his main rival making Rafa the goat in most people's opinion.

It's like winning the lottery then getting run over by a car when you leave the bank after cashing the check.


Let me pout for a bit, i need it.
And it's not a jinx, i honestly don't have even a tiny bit of faith.

That's why it'll be so much sweeter if Federer beats Nadal to win his 18th slam. A match against Dmitrov would be anti-climatic. Sport is made for moments like this. In a way I think Federer needs to beat Nadal. No other opponent will do.
 

inm8num2

Member
It's the 2002 US Open final all over again. Battle of the aging all-time greats! Very cool.

Want Fed, expect Nadal. Regardless it will be a treat to watch them in a GS final once more.
 

BorkBork

The Legend of BorkBork: BorkBorkity Borking
Rafa in 4 sets I think. Fed will take one of the first two, lose a tiebreak, with the last set being a relatively easy closeout. The backhand disadvantage plus the lack of sheer power and endurance is too much for Fed to overcome.
 
Man, I want Djokovic to eclipse Federer, so I'm rooting for Nadal.

Really though, all of today's top players - Rafa, Fed, Djokovic, Murry, and Stan - are amazing personalities. Also, Dimitrov now has one more new fan in me after that performance.
 

Mortemis

Banned
Man, it's really happening. :) One more Fedal Gs final.

Usually cheer for Nadal, but I'd be happy with seeing Fed lock up another GS. I'm really just hoping for a good match. :)
 
ESPN usually airs a rerun at 9am or 10am ET, no? My only concern would be whether the score would pop up on the bottom line during the rerun. Anyone have experience with this?
 

Diamond

Member
What Rafa manages very well to do is being just a little bit better than Federer when it matters. There are too many variables to predict what's going to happen (will Fed manage to keep his 1st serve percentage high? Will Nadal will be able to play deep on Roger's backhand?), but Nadal is certainly the favourite for me.
 
Fed is also old.

Nadal is younger and I think that will play a big difference if the match goes to a 4th and 5th set.

Fed needs to go up quickly to have a chance IMO.

You're right. Hell he was old a few years ago for 5 setters, and just kept losing the 5th in finals or semis for the last few years. After a certain period I think he lost every single 5 setter to Novak in GS, might be an exception.

And, yeah, Fed needs the first set to stand a chance, imo. That's probably not true, but it certainly feels like it.

Nadal is a little fragile. That fall from his prime, is legit. He makes more errors, due to the change in his technique. He is more prone to unusall error, but he always seems to relax when it comes to Fed, even after his injuries pulled him down from that crazy prime. I mean Nadal knows exactly what he has to do to beat Federer, but there is that slight fragility and possibility of errors.

Honestly, I'm surprised the odds are only slightly in favor of Nadal. Tempted to put down some scratch on it, but I really shouldn't. I just like to watch Tomic matches and see a matchup that is obvious in which he is going to lose badly despite being way over ranked above the opponent. His play style really allows you to exploit the bookies cuz his unique and strange style of play allows some lower ranked players to easily kick his ass, and in play betting, you can see it coming.
 
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