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[Axios] Former PlayStation worker sues gaming giant, alleges gender discrimination

Tripolygon

Banned
You just talked about how some guy got the job because they didn't want to you. And that you quit, but then they hired you again. How am I supposed to make sense of what you are saying?

You come across as the sort of person who would sue a brick for gender discrimination if you stubbed your toe on it.
You are intent on not using your brain at all.
I was passed over for promotion when my boss had pretty much guaranteed me that he was looking at me to take over his position as he was being moved to a regional management position. Someone I was just training for about a month was hired for the position.
Here you are assuming the woman I trained was more qualified. She was not, I had been at the Job much longer and was good at it. I trained her, I would know.
Likely the trainee was better for the job, and seriously, If you are as confrontational and bitchy as this at your workplace, then no wonder you didn't get the job. Nobody wants to work with people who find problems where there are none.
Here is me telling you that you are wrong they knew I was good at the Job so they offered me more money.
Lol. I quite, they begged me to come back with higher pay, I came back parleyed that for a better job and position at a different company. So yea you are dead wrong. I was pretty good at my job and they knew that. Oh, and the company is defunct now. Nice try though.

You come across as the sort of person who would sue a brick for gender discrimination if you stubbed your toe on it.
Never sued anyone in my life but I know how much my time is worth and will find another Job that values my time. Again, think before you type.
 
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Herr Edgy

Member
You are intent on not using your brain at all.

Here you are assuming the woman I trained was more qualified. She was not, I had been at the Job much longer and was good at it. I trained her, I would know.

Here is me telling you that you are wrong they knew I was good at the Job so they offered me more money.



Never sued anyone in my life but I know how much my time is worth and will find another Job that values my time. Again, think before you type.
It's like some of the people you are arguing with can't fathom the idea that companies can pull bullshit actions for bullshit reasons and that you ain't obligated to be a bootlicker.
Those people have never seen offices of large corporations from the inside, where the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing and tasks are constantly delegated, not to be efficient, but to make them go out of sight. No responsibility is taken and therefore no one can be blamed directly.
But no, your experience can't be correct, every company and every manager always chooses what's best for everyone, e = mcĀ²

Office Monkey GIF


People in game dev move companies all the time for higher pay and better titles btw, has nothing to do with "nagging" either.
 

Bragr

Banned
You are intent on not using your brain at all.

Here you are assuming the woman I trained was more qualified. She was not, I had been at the Job much longer and was good at it. I trained her, I would know.

Here is me telling you that you are wrong they knew I was good at the Job so they offered me more money.

Never sued anyone in my life but I know how much my time is worth and will find another Job that values my time. Again, think before you type.
I'm not sure if you are trolling or crazy. Listen, I have no idea what a hell happened at your workplace, and I really don't care.
 

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
I don't disagree at all, but most companies don't have this level of data collection and analysis on every employee, and practically a LOT of employees would feel extremely uncomfortable with their performance being purely assessed on this basis; despite the fact that it's largely the most meritocratic method for assessing performance.
Well it all goes hand in hand with all of the self eval stuff you mentioned; whether truly objectionably measurable or not, categories are created.. employees are asked to pick focus areas and then grade themselves, document their accomplishments, give feedback in feedback systems (*cough* mostly Workday *cough*), request feedback, etc. If a client sends a nice email about you, make sure you fwd' that to a manager and they should be putting it in your official record too.

Point is to have legit evidence of why someone is paid what they are paid, and why someone is in the position they are in. Same with stuff like salary tables, well defined roles, etc.

There's better or worse versions of all of it of course, but people who want to excel at a workplace like that really should participate fully in them. Even if you are a legit standout, obvious candidate for a raise or promotion, etc., document why in those systems that might seem tedious.
 
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Kerotan

Member
If IT in general is predominated by men what can they do, they don't have to hire people just for diversity. If they limit their hiring pool gender to only females then that is gender discrimination.
Complaining that she was over looked for men in terms of promotions. Maybe she needs to look at herself and ask why. Companies generally don't promote people with victim mentality attitudes.
 

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
"Women more emotional and sharing problems"? No lies detected. Men tend to shut up and put up and internalize problems.

You are just demonstrating exactly why so many of these complaints are valid; when you construct a worldview like this you tend to have confirmation bias. You go in attributing negative things to women, and positive things to men.. well that's bias.. it will effect your choices. This exact attitude is why men so often do not even consider a woman for a leadership position, even if she's never demonstrated anything related to the stereotype they've formed.

Man some of y'all really need to get out more or something.
 
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Notabueno

Banned
If she was fired after sending this letter, whether on right or wrong basis, then fuck Sony they're gonna pay hard money for that kind of move.

If the basis of the letter was true, then that's even worse and Sony is going to get people coming at them eventually.

If not, well good riddance and I'd even say Sony is at fault for hiring this kind of manipulator.
 
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Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
It's like some of the people you are arguing with can't fathom the idea that companies can pull bullshit actions for bullshit reasons and that you ain't obligated to be a bootlicker.
Those people have never seen offices of large corporations from the inside, where the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing and tasks are constantly delegated, not to be efficient, but to make them go out of sight. No responsibility is taken and therefore no one can be blamed directly.
But no, your experience can't be correct, every company and every manager always chooses what's best for everyone, e = mcĀ²

Office Monkey GIF


People in game dev move companies all the time for higher pay and better titles btw, has nothing to do with "nagging" either.

How would you respond to the argument that if person A can negotiate (by whatever means at their disposal) a better deal than person B, they deserve the better deal?

To me, this seems entirely reasonable as it shows social skills and emotional intelligence that would be valuable to any employer.

The whole pay-gap argument has always struck me as pretty fraudulent. If employers could routinely get away with paying women less why not hire just women? I mean we see this sort of calculation in business everyday as evidenced by the trend towards outsourcing labour to the cheapest location.

I hate to say it, but if a sexist boss is willing to pay a premium to indulge his sexism... is that not actually a good thing? Because in the final analysis how different is it for the same boss to hire a local workforce even though he could get it done overseas for lesser cost?
I mean essentially its the same thing, its opting to support one economic group over another!

Obviously, I highly doubt that this is what is actually happening in the overwhelming majority of cases, and any sort of gender imbalance is a result of a large number of factors; none of which are sinister.
 

Tripolygon

Banned
I'm not sure if you are trolling or crazy. Listen, I have no idea what a hell happened at your workplace, and I really don't care.
You cared enough to interject to tell me someone else was more qualified at a job I trained them for. You cared enough to tell me I was bitchy and confrontational, cared enough to tell me I come off as someone who would sue a rock. Now you don't care anymore. Lmao
 
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Tripolygon

Banned
It's like some of the people you are arguing with can't fathom the idea that companies can pull bullshit actions for bullshit reasons and that you ain't obligated to be a bootlicker.
Those people have never seen offices of large corporations from the inside, where the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing and tasks are constantly delegated, not to be efficient, but to make them go out of sight. No responsibility is taken and therefore no one can be blamed directly.
But no, your experience can't be correct, every company and every manager always chooses what's best for everyone, e = mcĀ²

People in game dev move companies all the time for higher pay and better titles btw, has nothing to do with "nagging" either.
Here here.
 

nush

Member
You are just demonstrating exactly why so many of these complaints are valid; when you construct a worldview like this you tend to have confirmation bias. You go in attributing negative things to women, and positive things to men.. well that's bias.. it will effect your choices. This exact attitude is why men so often do not even consider a woman for a leadership position, even if she's never demonstrated anything related to the stereotype they've formed.

Man some of y'all really need to get out more or something.
giphy.gif




Everyone is biased and that's normal.

 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
But what the fuck is with this industry lately? It honestly doesnā€™t surprise me though
It's probably a combo of things.

1. Techie companies love hiring all kinds of weird people (I guess for diversity sake), so you get fallout of odd people. There's shitloads of people who work at banks, oil companies and your local cable and internet company where each one has 10000s of employees. How often do you ever hear about discrimination at those companies?

2. Its tech again. So when there are issues, the first thing the victim does is do public twitter battles for pity points while trying to drive the company into the ground. Even funnier is that the start of the social media battle isnt even conviction after a court resolution. It's all accusations publicly pointing fingers.

I'm sure every person knows someone at work who got fired and then came back with lawyers fighting for more money or trying to get the company to admit they fired the person without good cause. Or hates a boss or cafeteria food. Whatever the reason.

How often have you seen them do public battles? From personal experience, none.

But tech workers have a knack for acting like crybabies.
 
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As soon as u start trying to meet gender/race quotas the idea of dismissing someone because they are just bad at their job becomes much harder

u need the good old days
youre fired vince mcmahon GIF by WWE

youre fired donald trump GIF
 

Genx3

Member
Iā€™m just picturing her going to her managerā€™s office and asking him a question while he stares straight ahead at the wall and doesnā€™t blink.



Oh for sure, I agree salary should be adjusted based on skill and performance.

Sony has alot of employees, Iā€™d imagine there are both males and females there that excel at their position and receive greater salary increases because of their performance.

I was just thinking that the average could still get a rough estimate that would show whether there is a real skew towards male employees or not.

Perhaps it would only be accurate enough at the entry-level, but gets more murky with increased length of employment due to the variation in annual salary increases you mentioned.
This is very difficult to judge since every person is an individual who's pay is likely based on their performance.
Say you have 10 men and 10 women doing the same job.
If you have 8 women that are great at their job and only 2 guys that are equally great at their job with their salaries reflecting their skill. That would mean 8 women have higher salaries than all but 2 of the men.
Does that mean that the company discriminates against men? No that just means that company pays salaries based on performance.
 

nush

Member
If I get passed over fro promotions you know what I do? Start looking for jobs externally that will quite often pay higher than what I'd have earned with the promotion and I get a clean break from all my previous responsibilities. A clean slate and a fresh start. Especially if I had a big brand on my resume like Sony.

She was asking to get promoted after just one year and then for the following 5 years. Take the hint.
 

nush

Member
LOL.

Just based on that, she sounds like a whiner from day one.

String of sub 2 year jobs before that, at least she did stay at Sony for 6 years but probably torpedoed her chances promotion begging. If she had got one promotion in all likelihood she'd start begging for the next level one right away. Asian companies typically value loyalty and long term service before you even get a chance in my experience.
 

EDMIX

Writes a lot, says very little
What does this have to do with Gender?

yea I was waiting for some details on that.

Wrongful termniation? Sure...they probably have a case....maybe, but based on gender? I need them receipts lol

Kacho Kacho ā€œMajo alleges that she was ignored by a manager who only responded to menā€

Oh give me a break"


lolz

I need a fucking recording or some video footage of her saying some shit like "I have an idea...sir...sir" and then he's like "ok only men ask me questions..." lol

Or "Sir...theres a fire" (Male manager walks past fire like nothing is wrong, only acknowledging the office is on fire when a man yells fire) lol

I'm not saying this doesn't happen folks, but this is a claim, we need some fucking receipts! I need some footage of this happening, we all do to even support this fucking case as its simply an entire claim of something happening that we don't know if its true or not. Such a thing shouldn't even be hard if its so overt and the do it alllllll the time
 
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Bragr

Banned
You cared enough to interject to tell me someone else was more qualified at a job I trained them for. You cared enough to tell me I was bitchy and confrontational, cared enough to tell me I come off as someone who would sue a rock. Now you don't care anymore. Lmao
People who use lmao and lol in every sentence are like girls who giggle when they get nervous.
 

Star-Lord

Member
LOL.

Just based on that, she sounds like a whiner from day one.
ā€œI know Iā€™ve only just started working here, and my track record of staying in a job is questionable at best, but do you fancy giving a crazy person more responsibility and more money? Oh, and if you say no like any sane person would, Iā€™ll claim sexual discrimination. So, what you say?ā€
 

Herr Edgy

Member
How would you respond to the argument that if person A can negotiate (by whatever means at their disposal) a better deal than person B, they deserve the better deal?

To me, this seems entirely reasonable as it shows social skills and emotional intelligence that would be valuable to any employer.

The whole pay-gap argument has always struck me as pretty fraudulent. If employers could routinely get away with paying women less why not hire just women? I mean we see this sort of calculation in business everyday as evidenced by the trend towards outsourcing labour to the cheapest location.

I hate to say it, but if a sexist boss is willing to pay a premium to indulge his sexism... is that not actually a good thing? Because in the final analysis how different is it for the same boss to hire a local workforce even though he could get it done overseas for lesser cost?
I mean essentially its the same thing, its opting to support one economic group over another!

Obviously, I highly doubt that this is what is actually happening in the overwhelming majority of cases, and any sort of gender imbalance is a result of a large number of factors; none of which are sinister.
Of course it's fine negotiating a better deal for yourself. Although I also believe it's arguable that two people in the same position with the same responsibilities should be paid similar amounts, i.e. one shouldn't make 50k while the other makes 80k. That being said, qualifications and responsibilities are hardly quantifiable, especially across teams.
I imagine a tools programmer in a different team than me makes different money as well. Same title, not the same responsibilities. That doesn't mean mine are more or less than theirs, but it's hard to say "I deserve more" based on someone else's profile.
I imagine for certain roles it becomes easier though.

Employers don't pay better because you negotiating implies soft skills though lol.
They pay because they want to have you and don't want to cause trouble right off the bat. If they are able to afford your demands, as in, you are within the range they were willing to agree to, often times it's just a matter of asking rather than negotiating. There is no skill in that, you just need to put on your big boy pants to gather courage and ask.
Once you step over the line of their range, that's where negotiations come in. But I'd argue that often times that line isn't being crossed in the first place.

Personally I believe when I'm in a workplace that doesn't take me or my wants seriously, I'm in the wrong workplace and should look for new ventures. Then again this comes from an understanding of me being reasonable. Not everyone is. If the woman in question was simply incompetent yet demanded a promotion, I do think managers owe her a confrontation. Sidestepping issues as she says in the documents is a real thing happening in companies infected by nepotism. I'd also be looking elsewhere though.
 

Harlock

Member
The companies hiring based on gender or other not profissional aspect deseve be sued when firing the same people.
 

Edgelord79

Gold Member
Jim cast the first stone. Now all eyes are squarely on his own house.

Wonder when the Microsoft accusations will begin?
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
Personally I believe when I'm in a workplace that doesn't take me or my wants seriously, I'm in the wrong workplace and should look for new ventures. Then again this comes from an understanding of me being reasonable. Not everyone is. If the woman in question was simply incompetent yet demanded a promotion, I do think managers owe her a confrontation. Sidestepping issues as she says in the documents is a real thing happening in companies infected by nepotism. I'd also be looking elsewhere though.

I think this is really on point. My experience would lead me to believe small-scale cronyism is a far more prevalent cause of unequal treatment within organizations than gender discrimination. Its a huge issue because I can't imagine how you could disentangle the two.

I mean if promotion is tied to being part of an in-group bound with an out-of-hours social connection, if that group is totally or predominantly male and you are female its going to look like institutional gender discrimination despite it being equally suppressive to males deemed unfit for access to the clique. What's worse is there's no real reason to highlight this because bringing it to light would undermine claims that the problem is specifically one of sexism. Gender discrimination being perceived as especially egregious and so a more political expedient angle for legal action.
 

AJUMP23

Parody of actual AJUMP23

In my industry it is dominated by men. Any women with the qualifications and can string two sentences together (a degree in math or science) will be hired instantly and competed for. I was told by one large company president when I was younger they only cared about retaining minorities. They had bad minority retention numbers and they were focusing on fixing that.
 
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