Support NeoGAF

[Frozenprince]

I disagree. I think the reason no one cares what happened in Africa is because the film as it was gave us little reason to care for it. The narrative design clearly cared about Africa because it was literally the linchpin of first act. The consequences of Superman intervening in Africa is what kicks off everything.

It's true that the movie attempts to juggle a lot, but that doesn't mean that the solution is always "more" or "less". What the movie needed was less distractions and more context. Expanding on Africa might not be what fans want to see because it doesn't seem exciting or relevant to "Batman vs Superman" in the larger scheme of things, but it might be what the story needs to give context to the flow of events which eventually leads to everything else.

This speaks to my biggest issue with the film, yet again.

The editing is so god damn bad that it's impossible to have context for most of the scenes in the movie. You're never given clear ideas of what exactly is going on, the cuts go from character to character but it's never clearly established if they are on the same timeline or if it takes place before what we just watched in the last scene or after.

It needs to be re-cut.

 

[ReplacementPelican]

Jonathan Kent is probably one of the single best things about Snyder's Superman.

He begins to realize the implications of what people could see in Clark when he saves the bus. The woman talking about "an act of god." Kent knew humanity would either fear Clark, or project onto him their religious fanaticism. He didn't want Clark to deal with any of that, least of all attract Government attention. Everything he did was so that Clark could grow up as Clark Kent, so that he eventually as an adult, he could shoulder the decision himself when he is ready and be prepared for the consequences. As he says, he knows he will one day change the world, but it will up to him in what way.

There's literally nothing wrong with Martha saying that Clarke "doesn't owe the world a damn thing" She's absolutely correct. She's just stating, whatever he decides it needs to be because of his wants and desires, and not anyone elses

It's a stark contrast to the naive old picture painted of the Kents in which they literally sew for Clark his Superman costume, putting on him that burden. Idealistic, but ill advised.

I really couldn't disagree more, I liked where you initially went with Jonathan's realizations but he should have also known that Clark was strong enough to deal with that and probably should have taught him the resolve to do the right thing.

As for not owing the world a thing, when your presence causes bad shit to happen (Hello Zod) then you do have a responsibility. If something bad happens and you have the power to stop it but you decided not to then yeah, I'm kind of happy placing some blame on you. If I'm dying on the street and someone doesn't call an ambulance or even take me to the hospital themselves then yeah, they get some of the blame.

It's what good ol' Uncle Ben says, ' with great power comes great responsibility' and some moping, selfish Superman is really just going to be viewed as an arsehole.

 

[Bleepey]

Stop making sense. The ignorant majority won't care.

Ignorant but considering how Martha went over a lot of people's heads it's not far from the truth.

 

[Mr_Zombie]

Ignorant but considering how Martha went over a lot of people's heads it's not far from the truth.

I think that's the result of filmmakers trying to be too smart, trying to give a node to the fact that both Bruce's and Clark's mothers' name was "Martha". The scene would flow better, and be less confusing, if they went straight to the point: "Save my mom" instead of "Save Martha" (it would also feel more natural, since how the hell should Batman even know who "Martha" is?). As it is now it does look as if the name "Martha" alone triggers Batman (his reaction to Superman saying the name was weird), not the fact that Superman has a mother that he wants to save.

 

[Yeezus H. Christ]

Stop making sense. The ignorant majority won't care.

lmao now they've come to blaming audiences for not getting BvS as a smart and intellectual film

 

[atr0cious]

I think that's the result of filmmakers trying to be too smart, trying to give a node to the fact that both Bruce's and Clark's mothers' name was "Martha". The scene would flow better, and be less confusing, if they went straight to the point: "Save my mom" instead of "Save Martha" (it would also feel more natural, since how the hell should Batman even know who "Martha" is?). As it is now it does look as if the name "Martha" alone triggers Batman (his reaction to Superman saying the name was weird), not the fact that Superman has a mother that he wants to save.

He says, "you're letting them kill Martha." It's a perfectly fine line that fans have butchered into a dumb straw man about how bad the movie is. The point of the scene isn't their moms names, it's Batman repenting for his sins.

lmao now they've come to blaming audiences for not getting BvS as a smart and intellectual film

But you've already proven this to be true...

 

[vio]

Jonathan Kent is probably one of the single best things about Snyder's Superman.

He begins to realize the implications of what people could see in Clark when he saves the bus. The woman talking about "an act of god." Kent knew humanity would either fear Clark, or project onto him their religious fanaticism. He didn't want Clark to deal with any of that, least of all attract Government attention. Everything he did was so that Clark could grow up as Clark Kent, so that he eventually as an adult, he could shoulder the decision himself when he is ready and be prepared for the consequences. As he says, he knows he will one day change the world, but it will up to him in what way.

There's literally nothing wrong with Martha saying that Clarke "doesn't owe the world a damn thing" She's absolutely correct. She's just stating, whatever he decides it needs to be because of his wants and desires, and not anyone elses

It's a stark contrast to the naive old picture painted of the Kents in which they literally sew for Clark his Superman costume, putting on him that burden. Idealistic, but ill advised.

tornadoscene.gif




JK, i agree 100% with you.

 

[Yeezus H. Christ]

He says, "you're letting them kill Martha." It's a perfectly fine line that fans have butchered into a dumb straw man about how bad the movie is. The point of the scene isn't their moms names, it's Batman repenting for his sins.
But you've already proven this to be true...

Proven what to be true? That BvS is just a poor misunderstood film that will be looked back upon as a work of art in decades?

 

[atr0cious]

Proven what to be true? That BvS is just a poor misunderstood film that will be looked back upon as a work of art in decades?

Watchmen is already there, what's another from the same film maker?

 

[Bleepey]

I think that's the result of filmmakers trying to be too smart, trying to give a node to the fact that both Bruce's and Clark's mothers' name was "Martha". The scene would flow better, and be less confusing, if they went straight to the point: "Save my mom" instead of "Save Martha" (it would also feel more natural, since how the hell should Batman even know who "Martha" is?). As it is now it does look as if the name "Martha" alone triggers Batman (his reaction to Superman saying the name was weird), not the fact that Superman has a mother that he wants to save.

He tried to say save Martha Kent. He had a boot at his throat at the time so he had trouble getting to the point. Also Batman may not know his secret identity. https://youtu.be/B-nDBZU_B7k Rewatching the scene I got the point they were making. He has become all he hated.

 

[Mr_Zombie]

As for not owing the world a thing, when your presence causes bad shit to happen (Hello Zod) then you do have a responsibility. If something bad happens and you have the power to stop it but you decided not to then yeah, I'm kind of happy placing some blame on you. If I'm dying on the street and someone doesn't call an ambulance or even take me to the hospital themselves then yeah, they get some of the blame.

Yeah, but where's the limit to that? Unlike Spider-Man, Superman can travel the world in seconds. Putting the burden of "if something bad happens and you have the power to stop it but you decided not to then I'm kind of happy placing some blame on you" on him means he shouldn't even have a normal life, cause at any time, someplace on Earth, someone is in danger. When you're trying to have a date with your girlfriend, a guy is robbed on a street. When you're taking a dump, someone is getting murdered. And each time Superman fails to save the day, people will say that he failed them, that it's his fault (just like you said).

Ma and Pa Kent just look at things realistically. And the film shows that Superman tries to rescue people, tries to save the day, but then struggles with people still blaming him when something goes wrong. And this is where Ma Kent's position stands: just do what you think is right, but don't force yourself to do it if it becomes a burden to you.


However, my problem with this Superman is that - no matter how stupid that argument sounds - he doesn't smile. Even when he does good deeds he has this serious face, the "ugh, another day" - kind of face. So even when he goes out of his way to help people (flying from Lex's party to help people in fire that he saw in TV) it doesn't look as if he wants to help, but that he simply feels obliged to do this.

 

[Blader]

The problem with making Superman a morally ambiguous, self-doubting, et al. character is that you lose the hopeful optimistic part of him. You make him into a darker, grittier hero...like Batman. And in a movie that's supposed to be contrasting the characters and ideologies of Superman and Batman, bringing them both down into darker people loses the contrast and makes their conflict just...boring.

And as someone else pointed out, that conflict isn't even resolved! They don't hash out their differences and reconcile their differing worldviews. Bruce just decides to stop torturing Clark because their mothers share a name.

It's a stark contrast to the naive old picture painted of the Kents in which they literally sew for Clark his Superman costume, putting on him that burden. Idealistic, but ill advised.

Yeah, instead it's Jor-El who does that :lol

 

[atr0cious]

However, my problem with this Superman is that - no matter how stupid that argument sounds - he doesn't smile. Even when he does good deeds he has this

Wait till the movie drops, but this isn't true. He smiles in the day of the dead scene while rescuing the little girl. But it quickly turns to unease when the people start worshipping him. And please think about how crazy it is we need our super hero to smile while saving us or you think the worst of him.

The problem with making Superman a morally ambiguous, self-doubting, et al. character is that you lose the hopeful optimistic part of him. You make him into a darker, grittier hero...like Batman. And in a movie that's supposed to be contrasting the characters and ideologies of Superman and Batman, bringing them both down into darker people loses the contrast and makes their conflict just...boring.

And as someone else pointed out, that conflict isn't even resolved! They don't hash out their differences and reconcile their differing worldviews. Bruce just decides to stop torturing Clark because their mothers share a name.

The Martha scene is the only resolution they had time for, since Martha was about to die. Which is where you see the final conflict resolved, and Batman becomes a righteous avenger. Superman and Batman some from two completely different points of view. Clark saves despite the doubt humanity has in him because he knows it's right. Batman beats up bad guys because he feels only he can bring true justice, but he's no better than lex. Him repenting in the Martha scene is him immediately realizing he was wrong and trying to fix that. Then he says at the end he failed Clark in life, but would honor his death by being a good disciple and finding the others.

 

[Frozenprince]

The intellectual pretention in this thread.

Like you have to be wrong in the head to think the movie is a plodding, bloated, horribly edited mess with not a lot of narrative or character consistency.

 

[Yeezus H. Christ]

Watchmen is already there, what's another from the same film maker?

BvS isn't smart or intellectual, and for the record neither is Watchmen. BvS gets a lot of leeway from its diehard supporters for its hilariously poor thematic execution that is used as justification as why the film is 'underrated'. Oh, 'people don't understand what Snyder was going for with the Martha scene? They're all wrong and he's right! They're ignorant and it's a brilliant scene!'

Listen, if the vast majority viewing don't understand why Batman hopped off of Superman's ass, it's not because they're stupid. It's because Snyder can't direct worth a damn where the audiences can logically put together coherent scenes to form an interpretation that Snyder's going for. The directing doesn't let you breathe and absorb the resolution of the conflict. Ten seconds after Superman utters Martha and Lois Lane comes scrambling to save the day the two have become buddy-buddy like nothing ever happened and it's on to stopping the big CGI monster. So now the audiences' mind is now back to the big bombastic dumb third act, where reflecting on the Martha resolution is sidelined in favour of ten-minute explosions and a forced emotional moment with Superman's death.

I'm not surprised audiences don't understand it. The onus isn't on them to interpret the scene that way, it's Snyder's job to convey the meaning of it effectively. His attempt to cram too much shit in the last thirty minutes of the film is what resulted in its titular conflict being devolved to yet another team-up superhero movie. It's dumb writing and dumb direction.

 

[Slayven]

Eh. Probably not the first time he's taken a load in the face. His fans ought to be used to it by now.

 

[Mr_Zombie]

He says, "you're letting them kill Martha." It's a perfectly fine line that fans have butchered into a dumb straw man about how bad the movie is. The point of the scene isn't their moms names, it's Batman repenting for his sins.

I get what they wanted to do, but I think they failed the execution by putting the flashback too soon. Had they put the flashback of Batman's parents being killed after Lois said that "It's his mother name!" it would be much clearer. Right now the scene focuses too much on the name Martha (Batman hears Superman saying the name, starts yelling "why did you say that name?!" and is having a flashback) and not on the fact that Superman is trying to protect his mom (he just stops and angrily throws the spear away).

Wait till the movie drops, but this isn't true. He smiles in the day of the dead scene while rescuing the little girl. But it quickly turns to unease when the people start worshipping him.

Ok, I will have to see the movie again, because all I remember is the unease look on his face, not the smile.

And please think about how crazy it is we need our super hero to smile while saving us or you think the worst of him.

Not all super heroes - just those whose story arc is that they are self-doubting and feel pressured to do good things (and receive either worship or hatred in return). The movie spent too much time on Clark moping around, being accused of failing to save the day etc. To contrast that, it should put some more scenes of Clark being cheerful. Because from what I remember, the scene of him and Lois in the bath tub was the only one when I genuinely felt Clark Kent being content with his life.

 

[Frozenprince]

You just know Jimmy got one of those Hey Arnold Helga closet shrines.

 

[atr0cious]

The movie spent too much time on Clark moping around, being accused of failing to save the day etc. To contrast that, it should put some more scenes of Clark being cheerful. Because from what I remember, the scene of him and Lois in the bath tub was the only one when I genuinely felt Clark Kent being content with his life.

But he's not failing. He's doing everything he can, but the Africa event puts him on notice that humans are more fucked up then even he realized. It's why in MoS he's so gungho about his symbol meaning hope, and in BvS laments it's not his hopeful world. The point of the pa kent dream was to remind Clark that shit will always happen, but in the end you have to choose others over your own personal comfort.

BvS isn't smart or intellectual, and for the record neither is Watchmen.

Ok.

 

[Slayven]

You just know Jimmy got one of those Hey Arnold Helga closet shrines.

We do have proof in a world where superman never happens Jimmy goes crazy and always kills all of humanity

 

[Yeezus H. Christ]

Ok.

Glad you agree, I mean, you've given zero reason to convince me otherwise.

 

[atr0cious]

Glad you agree, I mean, you've given zero reason to convince me otherwise.

You don't care to reflect on anything not served to you in bite sized quips so I stopped trying.

 

[dabig2]

Wait till the movie drops, but this isn't true. He smiles in the day of the dead scene while rescuing the little girl. But it quickly turns to unease when the people start worshipping him. And please think about how crazy it is we need our super hero to smile while saving us or you think the worst of him.

It's a bit more than "smile for the camera". It's more about how Superman continued to let others define him and not speak up for himself. He never tried to personable and relatable. He sulked, posed, and played the silent atlas character with the world on his shoulders and never went out there in front of the cameras and told the world what he was about. You do what he did and of course people are going to worship you as some sort of god or hate you as a devil. You're an alien in every sense of the word. A big part of Superman's character down the ages is that he's not just an alien, he's Clark Kent from the farm. He smiles and he makes you smile. He's relatable despite being one of the most powerful beings on the planet. That's the Superman people want to see. Not the Bruce Wayne-lite version we got.

 

[Yeezus H. Christ]

You don't care to reflect on anything not served to you in bite sized quips so I stopped trying.

Considering your last reply, this is hilariously hypocritical. 'Stopped trying' is the equivalent of 'I have no counter-argument, so allow me to act condescending so I can get out of an actual debate'.

'BvS is actually really smart if you look at it!' isn't a hill to die on, lmao. There's nothing smart about poor editing, bad execution, terrible final acts, and atrocious (actually not intended) character writing. No amount of five-paragraph long analyses including useless references to Moby Dick is going to change that.

 

[atr0cious]

It's a bit more than "smile for the camera". It's more about how Superman continued to let others define him and not speak up for himself. He never tried to personable and relatable. He sulked, posed, and played the silent atlas character with the world on his shoulders and never went out there in front of the cameras and told the world what he was about. You do what he did and of course people are going to worship you as some sort of god or hate you as a devil. You're an alien in every sense of the word. A big part of Superman's character down the ages is that he's not just an alien, he's Clark Kent from the farm. He smiles and he makes you smile. He's relatable despite being one of the most powerful beings on the planet. That's the Superman people want to see. Not the Bruce Wayne-lite version we got.

This is the real world, he's in. Folks aren't just going to react to him, he's changing the very meaning of their small existence. He appeared to the world in his first act, battling against his own kind who are trying to destroy the earth. They have no choice but to see him as something other than a benevolent being. This movie is about all of that and how Clark still does what's right, he saves lex from doomsday without thinking, and he's still getting shit because he wasn't smiling while doing it.

 

[Bleepey]

It's a bit more than "smile for the camera". It's more about how Superman continued to let others define him and not speak up for himself. He never tried to personable and relatable. He sulked, posed, and played the silent atlas character with the world on his shoulders and never went out there in front of the cameras and told the world what he was about. You do what he did and of course people are going to worship you as some sort of god or hate you as a devil. You're an alien in every sense of the word. A big part of Superman's character down the ages is that he's not just an alien, he's Clark Kent from the farm. He smiles and he makes you smile. He's relatable despite being one of the most powerful beings on the planet. That's the Superman people want to see. Not the Bruce Wayne-lite version we got.

Am I being fucking trolled here?! He never tried to speak up for himself? What the hell do you think that senate hearing was? Here's a refresher as to him trying to defend himself:

We all know what happened next.

 

[atr0cious]

Am I being fucking trolled here?! He never tried to speak up for himself? What the hell do you think that senate hearing was? Here's a refresher as to him trying to defend himself:

This is the best part of the movie. Snyder and lex keep superman from defending himself and the animosity for him grows in both Batman and the audience.

 

[Yeezus H. Christ]

Bottom-line is, Superman is straight-up unlikable in BvS and that's why his death is extremely contrived as a means for the audience to give a shit about the ending.

'Let's kill the hero so we can say we have an emotional ending with stakes!' is just about the safest thing BvS could have done. Awful, awful writing, Groot's death was 10 times more emotional and he's in a freakin' ensemble film and says exactly one line, lmao.

 

[whytemyke]

Am I being fucking trolled here?! He never tried to speak up for himself? What the hell do you think that senate hearing was? Here's a refresher as to him trying to defend himself:

We all know what happened next.

The dude in the suit standing right behind Supes sits next to me at work.

 

[atr0cious]

The dude in the suit standing right behind Supes sits next to me at work.

Sorry for your loss.

 

[whytemyke]

Sorry for your loss.

Dude swears the film is just misunderstood. I do that thing where you try to be accepting while not agreeing. Like when a crazy uncle at a family reunion starts saying that Jews run the media.
"That's crazy man! Everyone is entitled to their opinion I guess!"

 

[atr0cious]

Dude swears the film is just misunderstood. I do that thing where you try to be accepting while not agreeing. Like when a crazy uncle at a family reunion starts saying that Jews run the media.

I wonder if he got to see the full version in any capacity. And comparing someone who likes BvS to a bigoted caricature is a bit much.

 

[Bleepey]

Bottom-line is, Superman is straight-up unlikable in BvS and that's why his death is extremely contrived as a means for the audience to give a shit about the ending.

'Let's kill the hero so we can say we have an emotional ending with stakes!' is just about the safest thing BvS could have done. Awful, awful writing, Groot's death was 10 times more emotional and he's in a freakin' ensemble film and says exactly one line, lmao.

Name a recent comic book movie where a character died and stayed dead at the end. How was it safe?

 

[cj_iwakura]

Name a recent comic book movie where a character died and stayed dead at the end. How was it safe?

Age of Ultron.

 

[Pop-O-Matic]

Name a recent comic book movie where a character died and stayed dead at the end. How was it safe?

Because the sequel was basically locked in to happen by the time the film was released, and it's last shot is basically a giant flashing neon sign saying "Superman the scary objectivist alien who levels cities and has no regard for human life beyond the people who raised him or who he's fucking isn't actually dead."

 

[Fury451]

So this might fix the pacing issues, but not the story and characterization issues.

I'll see when it hits video. Don't have much confidence that it'll change my opinion overall, which is that the film is tonally dour and humorless with aspirations of depth but no substance.

Trailer definitely looked better than anything used for this movie before though.

 

[atr0cious]

Because the sequel was basically locked in to happen by the time the film was released, and it's last shot is basically a giant flashing neon sign saying "Superman the scary objectivist alien who levels cities and has no regard for human life beyond the people who raised him or who he's fucking isn't actually dead."

The death is for affecting batman, not the audience. Clark gives his life and Batman swears to honor him for it. We know superman is coming back by the end of the movie so of course they weren't trying to grab the audience that way, that would be the nuke scene. Also nothing about this movie is objectivist so please don't try to to go down that dumb meme hole.

 

[Yeezus H. Christ]

Name a recent comic book movie where a character died and stayed dead at the end. How was it safe?

Age of Ultron? Apocalypse? Pretty much half the X-Men movies actually?

It's safe because they copped out of Superman's death not fifteen minutes after it happened, lmao. He's coming back for Justice League and we all know it. That death doesn't mean shit for us not only because of that but because the audience doesn't care about an emotionless wooden robot chewing up the scenery with the same expression for two and a half hours dying in the predictable third act. Superman's death in BvS was about as emotionally resonant as Quicksilver's.

But with worse stakes because at least Quicksilver actually stays dead. Superman's back for the sequel and Snyder didn't have the balls to not show this in the very ending shot of the film LOL

BvS is going to be looked back upon as 'wow, that was a real low for superhero movies'.

 

[dabig2]

This is the real world, he's in. Folks aren't just going to react to him, he's changing the very meaning of their small existence. He appeared to the world in his first act, battling against his own kind who are trying to destroy the earth. They have no choice but to see him as something other than a benevolent being. This movie is about all of that and how Clark still does what's right, he saves lex from doomsday without thinking, and he's still getting shit because he wasn't smiling while doing it.

Regardless, Superman could have changed the narrative. Instead, he let people define him over and over again. Mythological god beings are mythological god beings because they're invisible and exist on a higher plane from tangible humans. Superman doesn't have that problem.

Am I being fucking trolled here?! He never tried to speak up for himself? What the hell do you think that senate hearing was? Here's a refresher as to him trying to defend himself:

We all know what happened next.

I'm more referring to the 2 years of timeskip before that senate hearing.

 

[atr0cious]

Regardless, Superman could have changed the narrative.

He's a god to them and he's all about not over stepping his bounds. This is getting close to notmysuperman arguments, where we're used to a world that reflects superman. He's been severely toned down so as to fit the other heroes without all the power creep. This movie spells out what had happened and why Clark is "moping." It's not until his death that he has a healthy relationship with humanity. The Clark bits they re-added might help you though, as they seem to give you more of what Clark does in his down time.

 

[Bleepey]

Age of Ultron.

You got me. However I bet you were one of the people surprised Cap came back after being shot, or Supes coming back from death in the 90s. It's a comic book death.

 

[MegaManTrigger]

Sorry, you just hit on a common meme about how Clark isn't his idealic self because the Kents are pragmatists. The dude does everything he can for others, even saves the life of the person who started it all, and yet fans are mad he didn't smile while doing it. It seems a lot of "failures" of this movie are because the movie didn't go in the direction the fans wanted.

I couldn't possibly care less if he smiled doing the job or not. However, the problem is the way the writing sets up Superman's desire to save people. In the comics, it's a much more genuine desire. In BvS, it's treated as if it's an obligation. You never really see the genuine desire pull through, because other characters such as Pa, Ma Kent and Lois are always telling him about how great he is and how he must use his powers for the greater good (or in Pa Kent's case, discourage him from doing what he wanted because of the paranoia surrounding government attention and whatnot).

But the point of MoS was that eugenics were wrong, which is why Jor was able to stand up to Zod in a fight and Clark was able to win the day. Zod was like liquid snake in that he believed in his genetic fate to his core so in the end, it consumed him and turned him into a monster, which was where Batman was headed when Clark stepped in.

And yet Jor-El is a product of eugenics, how was he able to best someone who was supposedly better than he was in combat? It makes no sense and is one of the many Snyderisms in Man of Steel.

 

[Alienous]

Snyder thinks Superman in 2016 would be a dour, depressed, introspective dude. "The world just doesn't understand me".

How about setting up a Twitter account and not floating over people like some creepy God? How about forcing a smile to comfort people who, to their credit, are looking at an alien that could melt them with his eyes.

He is SIPO - Superman in powers only.

 

[bob_arctor]

BvS is going to be looked back upon as 'wow, that was a real low for superhero movies'.

Nah, the majority of people don't give a shit. Just like the "It wasn't earned!!" Trinity shot arms-folded reaction. Justice League will drop, audiences will line up. If there is good word of mouth, what you mention is even more irrelevant.

 

[Yeezus H. Christ]

Superman in Snyder movies is forgettable as fuck. I couldn't tell you one memorable line or aspect of his personality that doesn't come down to 'he's serious, I guess?'

The dude's persecution by the world doesn't even look like it's having an effect on him because again, he's acted like a robot. A mental breakdown scene at the farm or something would have been terrific.

 

[Ahasverus]

But with worse stakes because at least Quicksilver actually stays dead. Superman's back for the sequel and Snyder didn't have the balls to not show this in the very ending shot of the film LOL
'.

Dude the ending was already bleak af. If it had ended with a shot of dirt on Superman's coffin the kids would have gone crying.

BvS is going to be looked back upon as 'wow, that was a real low for superhero movies

... nah. It's a very memorable movie.

 

[DeathyBoy]

Nah, the majority of people don't give a shit. Just like the "It wasn't earned!!" Trinity shot arms-folded reaction. Justice League will drop, audiences will line up. If there is good word of mouth, what you mention is even more irrelevant.

People who think BvS is a low need to wast have Catwomsn, Elektra, friggin' 1970s Cap
America. BvS isn't even in the bottom ten worst comic book films.

 

[Yeezus H. Christ]

Dude the ending was already bleak af. If it had ended with a shot of dirt on Superman's coffin the kids would have gone crying.

I don't think the kids give a shit about Robotman Cavill to be honest.

... nah. It's a very memorable movie.

Maybe read that part of my post again, hombre. I didn't say it wouldn't be memorable, I said it'd be looked upon as a low.

 

[IconGrist]

Superman in Snyder movies is forgettable as fuck. I couldn't tell you one memorable line or aspect of his personality that doesn't come down to 'he's serious, I guess?'

The dude's persecution by the world doesn't even look like it's having an effect on him because again, he's acted like a robot. A mental breakdown scene at the farm or something would have been terrific.

Wait, so one of the biggest complaints about Superman in BvS is that he's depressed all the time by how some of the world views him and now you're arguing it looked to have no effect on him? Keep your point straight, Yeezus. What you said here doesn't make any sense given what so many (including yourself I might add) have pointed out.

And I guess having a hallucination about conversing with his dead father doesn't count as a mental breakdown.

 

[atr0cious]

because other characters such as Pa, Ma Kent and Lois are always telling him about how great he is and how he must use his powers for the greater good

I thought folks were mad because this doesn't happen?

And yet Jor-El is a product of eugenics, how was he able to best someone who was supposedly better than he was in combat? It makes no sense and is one of the many Snyderisms in Man of Steel.

That's the point, he grew outside of his restrictions to beat zod, this means eugenics were proven wrong.

And I guess having a hallucination about conversing with his dead father doesn't count as a mental breakdown.

Nah that was just him praying.