Batman v. Superman RT Thread: like standing ovations in rain

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Haven't seen BvS yet, but does Batfleck ever mention that rule? Perhaps this take on the character doesn't have one.

Forgive me if I'm sounding too defensive, I just don't see the big deal about bad guys dying in action movies.

On a related note, you guys are straight trippin about Cap 1. There was way too much camp in that one. WS was great though.

Batfleck did not. However, I can only speak for myself, but the no-kill rule is a defining trait for Bats to a much larger degree then any of the heroes you mentioned. The only Marvel heroes that really compare for me on that front are Spidey and Daredevil.

I don't really care for what Cavill did because he's Superman in name only.
 
29%? Up, up, and away

87GO5EZHkcjlyvYrZWUMIj8agZP-1443408705.jpg
 
He's talking about Cap 1. He throws a HYDRA goon into a propeller and they visibly turn to red mist.



He killed a bunch of dudes in the boat sequence in the beginning and in the helicarrier sequence. The ones he didn't kill probably can't walk anymore.

No one died in the boat sequence they got fucked up for sure, but he didn't kill st. pier's character, he knocked out people. Black widow is a assassin she was shooting dudes for sure.

But cap gives people a chance to lay down their arms and technically he has a legal right to kill if necessary because shield is government sanctioned.
 
I don't know what the reviewers were smoking, this was a good movie, in fact I would take this movie over anything MCU has does in recent years. In fact I'd take movie over Avengers and to me it's not even close.

And I'm not some DC fanboy, I generally prefer Marvel to DC.

If you're on the fence about seeing this due to the reviews, go see it.

Even better than Winter Soldier???

You cray and need some meds
 
I would just like to apologize beforehand. If you read the following review, and feel that my critique is in anyway cheapened by what you consider hyperbole, then the only explanation that I can give is that I am a very passionate individual, and this is just the way I express myself.

THAT

BEING

SAID


There's a Maya Angelou quote that I would like to bring up. "Bitterness is like cancer. It eats upon the host. But anger is like fire. It burns it all clean."

That's what I hope to do today NeoGaf. To use this public forum as an outlet for my anger. In doing so, I hope to cleanse myself of all this, to regain some measure of power over this unpleasant experience. The biggest regret I have in all this? That I am not a good enough writer to give everything I have to say the voice it deserves.

FUCK THIS MOVIE

What an absolute fucking disaster of a film. What an infuriating assault on both the sense and the senses and sensibility in general. Zack Snyder was handed the fire of creation, and has chosen to use it to burn the wheat fields down. I hesitate to call this a train wreck, because that implies there was some moment in time when this disaster was on the proverbial "right track". I'm not sure if I will even write a version of this review that includes spoilers, because I don't think I can be bothered to write a scene by scene break-down of this ENTIRE FUCKING MOVIE.
This isn't a film. This is Zack Snyder and company taking "The Dark Knight Rises" and another story that would be too spoiler-filled to name, stripping them of the context that made them important, slathered them in ultra-macho bullshit, and created some sort of unholy Frankenstein's monster that has captured me and is ordering me to help it reproduce, to justify its existence. And like Victor Frankenstein himself, I am horrified at the implications that may bring.

But you've heard enough of my opinions right? How about a film breakdown? That's what you want right?

This movie is a mess, it seems to want to rebel against the very notion of an establishing shot. We are dropped into scene after scene after scene after scene, with the flimsiest of narrative tissue to connect them. Scenes are scattered next to each other with no rhyme or reason. Each individual scene devolves into a very specific plot point, a sequence of audio-visual data, unrelated to the one before it, but without the strength to carry it on its own. The film cuts to black so often it feels like the work of an absolute rank amateur. And the dream sequences you may have heard about? They are illogical, intrusive, and laughable in their self-seriousness. Character agency? Drama? What's that? Why include those when you can hand wave everything with pure coincidence? I will not suffer any criticism of superhero film world-building without using this as rock bottom. If these are what passes as "easter eggs", then they are rotten to the core, and they are being flung straight at my face. It's so afraid to let a scene breath that it has to flash to an earlier scene to emphasize the point like an episode of CSI.

I don't know who to blame for this script. No one has an actual, believable conversation. All they do is spout big important ideas that I'm sure the screenwriter felt very proud in including. If Nolan's Batman films approached the genre with the depth of a lake, this film is as shallow as a murky puddle.

Let's get into our characters shall we? This film doesn't have the fucking time to flesh ANYONE out. First there's Batman, played by Ben Affleck. You may have heard praise for his portrayal of Batman and you know what? It was serviceable. Perfectly Fine. A handsome face to put in the cowl and nothing more. You know what is terrible about Affleck's Batman? That he is the vehicle for all of the films idiotic overuse of dream sequences. Have you felt worried about any rumors that Batman kills in this movie? He does, and the film treats that as something that is super awesome. He's not intelligent in the slightest, Alfred picks up most of the slack Jeremy Iron's Alfred? A decent job, even if his main job is delivering almost obligatory quotes from "The Dark Knight Returns".

Henry Cavill's Superman? Somehow even worse than his last outing. It's kind of ironic that his turn as Superman evokes the same feeling of the Golem of Jewish folklore, because he is a fucking BORE. If Man of Steel was a Superman film deathly afraid of showing Superman not fighting, then this movie is petrified of showing Superman doing ANYTHING competent, in the fear that the audience will see him as all powerful and untouchable. As such, Cavill's turn as Superman includes him looking pensive all of the time, eyebrows furrowed, and then occasionally looking to the left (or his right, whatever.)

Before I get to Wonder Woman, I just want to include this weird hyper-macho attitude that this film has. Hey ladies? Excited to see Wonder Woman? This film is the equivalent of that guy at the gym, who is all too happy to let you work in only to do bicep curls in front of you, darting his eyes occasionally to make sure you're watching. Every time Affleck does something Bruce Wayne related, it is with the caveat that he must be drowning in pussy. He knows Russian because (according to him), he fucked a Russian ballerina. After one of Bruce's most nonsensical of dream sequences, he wakes up with a naked woman next to him, who never wakes up. The rest of the supporting female cast is really just there to be taken hostage. Get Lois Lane in the Justice League, because apparently she has the power of teleportation and omnipresence.

Gadot's Wonder Woman is literally Anne Hathaway's Catwoman redux. A shoehorned Justice League tie-in with an obnoxious electric guitar soundtrack. All of her scenes could have and should have been excised completely.

Eisenberg's Luthor was not a performance. It was a series of mannerisms. The perfect foil to Superman has been reduced to wild gesticulations and squeaks. He's barely even a character, just a plot device. And in all the stupid bullshit included in this movie.

The action scenes? There are four. One is a Batmobile chase, composed almost entirely of CGI and lacking any of the narrative flourish of Nolan's tumbler segments. The titular fight? A nuisance to the film, just another scene. Instead of the culmination of two ideologies clashing together it has instead been reduced to a nonsensical gambit by Lex. It's maybe 8 minutes max of Batman doing slow martial arts moves to a kryptonite weakened Superman, who's only moments of strength have him acting like a roaring gorilla. And the climax is every bit as insipid and stupid as you might have heard. A throwaway piece of trivia blown into laughably operatic over importance. The Batman fight is fine, but it looks cool for the sake of being cool. It is stuffed into the narrative at the worst time. And the final fight against Doomsday? An excuse for Snyder to have his cake and eat it too, having large scale destruction with only the most obligatory mention that there are no civilians, to excuse the fact that we are watching rubber CGI models get punched back, fly back towards Doomsday, then get punched back. AT the end, no one in the theater cheered. They were shuffling in their seats, waiting to get out.

Fuck this movie. I despised every single second of it. I have never felt more powerless watching a movie then I was when this movie teased the Justice League. It felt like it was taunting me over the fact that it held the future of these characters. If you have any reservations about this film, then I assure there is no reason to see it anytime soon. Or do, I don't know you, do what you want with your money. I hated this movie. Every second of it.

TLDR: I didn't care for it.

One last thing.

This shot?

tumblr_nyrq6awSgg1sxwyufo2_500.gif


Fuck you. You didn't earn it.
 
It's not even about established rules. The movie heroes only kill enemy soldiers or terrorists. That's not Batman's MO. Daredevil doesn't kill either. Killing enemy combatants is very different from executing criminals on the street.

Superman usually doesn't kill because he almost never has to kill.

Hasn't Daredevil killed in the comics though? Not that I know for sure but I feel like the Netflix show overstates DD's no killing policy. I know definitely Spider-Man doesn't kill.
 
Ben showing signs of life again :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZp9nPfxJj0

Batfleck did not. However, I can only speak for myself, but the no-kill rule is a defining trait for Bats to a much larger degree then any of the heroes you mentioned. The only Marvel heroes that really compare for me on that front are Spidey and Daredevil.

I don't really care for what Cavill did because he's Superman in name only.

That's totally understandable. As someone born in '93, TAS was a huge part of my childhood, and I've had love for the character ever since, but I'm always open to new interpretations.

Punished Batman is the only aspect of the movie I'm still hyped for.
 
Any contenders for GOAT superhero score other than 78 Superman and 89 Batman? It's a pretty weak field. I loved the songs picked for GOTG though. Flight from MoS is also amazing.
 
I would just like to apologize beforehand. If you read the following review, and feel that my critique is in anyway cheapened by what you consider hyperbole, then the only explanation that I can give is that I am a very passionate individual, and this is just the way I express myself.

THAT

BEING

SAID

I hope at least the drinks were good :D
 
Winter Soldier is great but Spider-Man 2, First Class, and DoFP have it beat in the superhero game.

Im convinced that I'm one of the few that hates DOTFP with a passion. That movies ending was straight garbage. It nullified itself from any standings it could be in. Ending still doesn't make sense to me.
 
Winter Soldier is great but Spider-Man 2, First Class, and DoFP have it beat in the superhero game.
Ok I give you Spider Man 2

Winter Soldier tho....it's not only a great comic book movie but also a good spy thriller. It's kind of like how the Dark Knight could pass for a great crime drama even without the DC superhero
 
That's part of why I liked Begins, I think. But old mystical mentor guy deep in the mountains isn't enough to qualify as complete ripoff imo.

I don't know how they are going to play Strange, but the thing with him is that he has to believe, because it is his only chance, but he can't, yet he'll do whatever it takes. He is broken and while looking to put himself together again opens his mind and answers the call.

Batman is just really a lost puppy who is too rich and famous to not be bailed out. He's given a way out not realizing he's being manipulated. Sure, he grows and gains some insight, remembers his morals and flees to do his own thing, but I think they play out different enough.

I really hope Strange goes all out on visuals tho. If there is one Marvel movie that needs it, this is it.

When they do that part, if at all, many people will go ''oh look they copied Batman Begins''.

IMO Strange has the best, if not def one of the best, origin stories.
His enemy is himself. He doesn't have an enemy who is responsible for him becoming a hero. His tragic life is indirectly his own responsibility. His ''journey'' is fascinating in that regard to go from a man of science to a man of faith.
I mean this is a good kid who wants to be a doctor to help people gets inspired by saving her little sister as a kid then later in life can't save her dying sister on the operating table and his entire life breaks down his own character breaks down he becomes someone else, a broken man. The only way for him to proceed is to lose the emotional side as he becomes a horrible human being which leads her parents and his brother dying as a result of this. Life hit him hard. Some people are strong enough to get over that and some can't. He couldn't and became a different person in the process. Then later on finds his redemption.
I really love that journey and in that regards is the best origin I've ever read. People keep saying visuals, rightfully so, but I hope they don't forget what makes his origin story the best, his journey. The good and the bad.
 
Im convinced that I'm one of the few that hates DOTFP with a passion. That movies ending was straight garbage. It nullified itself from any standings it could be in. Ending still doesn't make sense to me.

That movie is almost as bad as X-men 3 for me. I really liked First Class but DOFP killed any interest I had in the series post-reboot.
 
Yea for all the shit Nolan gets for being a bad action filmmaker his two Tumbler sequences were leagues better than the over the top and tensionless batmobile sequence in this.
 
Enjoyed the film. A solid 8/10.

There were two things that bothered me a bit:

1.- Lex Luthor: His personality was annoying and seemed like a rich Joker.
2.- The Flash: His suit was god awful. If I didn't know it was him before hand I would been clueless.

I can't wait for the extended/director's cut.
 
No please

Speaking of Civil War, the audience of the theater where I was reacted very enthousiasticly when Spider-Man appeared at the end. When BvS ended... not so much. Very meh response on the movie.

At the end of BvS my entire audience gave a standing cheering ovation. Which was really fucking weird since the movie was pretty bad!
 
Ok I give you Spider Man 2

Winter Soldier tho....it's not only a great comic book movie but also a good spy thriller. It's kind of like how the Dark Knight could pass for a great crime drama even without the DC superhero
Winter Soldier isn't a spy thriller. It has some stealthy stuff and pretty good political questions/implications, but it's not a spy thriller. It doesn't transcend the genre into a greater film, it's still a summer blockbuster movie that relies heavily on action set pieces.
 
Im convinced that I'm one of the few that hates DOTFP with a passion. That movies ending was straight garbage. It nullified itself from any standings it could be in. Ending still doesn't make sense to me.

I agree with you. I really loved it up until the 2nd part. That's where it hit rock bottom for me.
It was an enjoyable flick but great it was not. The RT rating was a bit too generous.
 
Enjoyed the film. A solid 8/10.

There were two things that bothered me a bit:

1.- Lex Luthor: His personality was annoying and seemed like a rich Joker.
2.- The Flash: His suit was god awful. If I didn't know it was him before hand I would been clueless.

I can't wait for the extended/director's cut.

I had no idea it was him either. Still don't understand what that fever dream sequence was about
 
Winter Soldier isn't a spy thriller. It has some stealthy stuff and pretty good political questions/implications, but it's not a spy thriller. It doesn't transcend the genre into a greater film, it's still a summer blockbuster movie that relies heavily on action set pieces.

Not "transcending" a particular genre is a weird knock against a film, and I don't see how saying that The Winter Soldier is a spy thriller (a valid statement, it hits on many spy thriller tropes) equals claiming that it's somehow "transcendent".
 
Not "transcending" a particular genre is a weird knock against a film, and I don't see how saying that The Winter Soldier is a spy thriller (a valid statement, it hits on many spy thriller tropes) equals claiming that it's somehow "transcendent".
I meant that it's more defined by being a superhero summer blockbuster than a spy thriller. There's nothing really there to define it or leverage it as a spy thriller.
 
Im convinced that I'm one of the few that hates DOTFP with a passion. That movies ending was straight garbage. It nullified itself from any standings it could be in. Ending still doesn't make sense to me.
You ain't alone. DOFP isn't a good movie. It's boring as hell. Also proves my point the only "good" X-Men movie in 16 years has been one with Singer not involved
 
I meant that it's more defined by being a superhero summer blockbuster than a spy thriller. There's nothing really there to define it or leverage it as a spy thriller.

So what do you call jason bourne film? Or a James Bond film? Because Winter soldier is like those, only the main character and his team mates are heroes like him. Instead of Q, money penny, and people from the pentegon.

There's tons of spy shit in that movie. Maybe go back and watch it. It's setup like a bourne film.

Conspiracy happens, someone is compromised, they go dark to figure out who's betrayed them from the inside, the find plans, need to try and stop said plan, bring conspirator to justice.

Which is how winter soldier plays out.

So how is it not a spy thriller?
 
When they do that part, if at all, many people will go ''oh look they copied Batman Begins''.

IMO Strange has the best, if not def one of the best, origin stories.
His enemy is himself. He doesn't have an enemy who is responsible for him becoming a hero. His tragic life is indirectly his own responsibility. His ''journey'' is fascinating in that regard to go from a man of science to a man of faith.
I mean this is a good kid who wants to be a doctor to help people gets inspired by saving her little sister as a kid then later in life can't save her dying sister on the operating table and his entire life breaks down his own character breaks down he becomes someone else, a broken man. The only way for him to proceed is to lose the emotional side as he becomes a horrible human being which leads her parents and his brother dying as a result of this. Life hit him hard. Some people are strong enough to get over that and some can't. He couldn't and became a different person in the process. Then later on finds his redemption.
I really love that journey and in that regards is the best origin I've ever read. People keep saying visuals, rightfully so, but I hope they don't forget what makes his origin story the best, his journey. The good and the bad.

Oh I talk about visuals because casting Cucumberbatch gives me hopes and tells me they are on the right track. It says they understand what kind of personality is needed to pull it off. I'm with you, I love his origin and want it done justice.

I just think they might need more help in giving it a style that stands out than nailing the part.
 
The good news is that they can still save the franchise by using it's own characters. What if Justice League opens with Zach Snyder's fucked up universe being destroyed as a result of it's own grimdarkness, and the only way to save it is to send Flash back in time? He has to then fix the future by preventing bat man from being a killer and help superman become a hero earlier so he is ready for Zod. Because of this, MOS and BvS never happen and the world has hope for the future.

They can use that Queen Song in the trailers
 
Winter Soldier is great but Spider-Man 2, First Class, and DoFP have it beat in the superhero game.

The only things that stops Winter Soldier from being GOAT for me is they had to tack on the stupid fucking aircraft carriers of doom plot.

Everything else was amazing
 
I would just like to apologize beforehand. If you read the following review, and feel that my critique is in anyway cheapened by what you consider hyperbole, then the only explanation that I can give is that I am a very passionate individual, and this is just the way I express myself.
There's a Maya Angelou quote that I would like to bring up. "Bitterness is like cancer. It eats upon the host. But anger is like fire. It burns it all clean."

FUCK THIS MOVIE


This shot?

tumblr_nyrq6awSgg1sxwyufo2_500.gif


Fuck you. You didn't earn it.

GODDAMN
 
Fan reception for this film is definitely not as bad as the critical one. If you check Twitter, there are a lot of positive tweets. The metacritic user score has been inching up. It's at 7.3 now. That's higher than Force Awakens.

Don't think the reviews are going to have a major negative impact on the box office. This is a divisive movie, maddening for some even. But it's not some Gods of Egypt turd. It'll probably have typical legs for a blockbuster.
 
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