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[Veelk]

Lex Luthor: Man of Steel.

I imagine it's hard to read that and not hate what Eisenberg done with the role.

FINALLY! Someone else who sees the light.

I just feel this is unequivocally the best possible interpretation of Lex Luthor. Someone who is so rational, compassionate, and charismatic sounding that you find yourself unwittingly agreeing with his extreme measures before you realize what he's actually doing.

Lex Luthor doesn't just want to beat Superman physically, he wants to beat him on a moral level. He wants to actually be the better man. It seems counterintuitive, therefore, to assign him typical villain qualities. The DCAU Clancy Brown Lex Luthor is pretty cool in his own right, but it's consistently obvious that he's evil, and I just feel it's a far more interesting dynamic when you have to actually remind yourself that he's evil.

 

[MisterHero]

Lex Luthor: Man of Steel.

I imagine it's hard to read that and not hate what Eisenberg done with the role.

The story's a lot of fluff because Lex is a bad guy at the core. Movie Lex at least owns it.

 

[IconGrist]

Apparently Grace Randolph disliked the UC more than the TC. Which is odd because she named BvS her second favorite movie of the year so far.

 

[atr0cious]

I found that speech useful for building Lex's motivations. Much of it is disjointed but I found it rather clear that his confusion in putting his words together are due to his fear and uncertainty of his own position in society, much of it being caused by the existence of Superman. He says something like "what is ultimate knowledge without ultimate power. Nothing....it's paradoxical." Lex is someone who believes he has knowledge and therefore should have power but feels he is powerless due to Superman.

He has 3 primary targets in the same room. He's monologuing about himself, trying to let them see how great he is for tricking them, but he stops himself, because he knows that's stupid.

 

[Shaanyboi]

That was a note from Lex to prod at his insecurities. Lex knows exactly what he's doing with that one. Double meaning behind that note.

Except it literally makes no sense as far as manipulation goes. If that letter was meant to look like it's from Scoot, it wouldn't make sense to make a jab at his parents or Jason or whoever. And if it was meant to lay in the guilt for everyone who died in Metropolis, like... there is literally no way you can lay guilt about that to Bruce. Like even just to poke his buttons, there is no reason he shouldn't be reading that while going "What? No I didn't." Did he fail by not driving fast enough? Or by not building his tower out of Nth metal? Or hiring an idiot who doesn't know to evacuate the building immediately? Or by not killing Superman sooner (y'know... the guy who revealed himself literally earlier that day)?

Like... how did he let his family die? I mean it's a very provocative message, but it doesn't have any real backing to it.

 

[pestul]

Apparently Grace Randolph disliked the UC more than the TC. Which is odd because she named BvS her second favorite movie of the year so far.

I don't even know how that's possible. The UC improves on virtually everything.

 

[Kyoufu]

The music when Wonder Woman finally enters the Triforce. Perfection.

Can anyone explain what happened with the "dream" sequences? Was that Flash doing some timey wimey stuff to warn Bruce?

 

[IconGrist]

He has 3 primary targets in the same room. He's monologuing about himself, trying to let them see how great he is for tricking them, but he stops himself, because he knows that's stupid.

I've been following a lot of your interpretations of BvS and I have to say I don't recall actually agreeing with any of them. Maybe one or two but they must have been little things because I don't remember them but statistically they have to be there.

Can anyone explain what happened with the "dream" sequences? Was that Flash doing some timey wimey stuff to warn Bruce?

Yea but he went back too far. He meant to find Bruce after they had met.

 

[guek]

What stakes in civil war exist? They're no longer friends? The end proves jail is nothing, they didn't even have a single shot of them struggling to break in to the raft. Cap physically beats iron man into submission, then send him a letter rubbing it in his face. And he drops a fucking airport terminal on 15 year old he just met. What happens? Gets vacation in the best country on the planet, harsh.

The SnyderCU is all about real world stakes. Clark can't mud stomp through buildings or use terrorist seeking missiles to stop threats. He can't even travel across the world with out repercussions. This extends to real people and how they connect with him. Religions have to change because of his existence, something never breached with Thor.

It's hard to believe you honestly expect people to take you seriously with this kind of hyperbole.

The world isn't hunky dory at the end of civil war. The Avengers being broken out by Steve has nothing to do with the dilemma of the movie and the fact that you think it does is bizarre. The movie completely changes the status quo in ways you seem willingly unable to acknowledge. Every single character is in a completely different place by the end of tree film. Steve isn't on vacation at the end, he's on the run. He's not going to stay in Wakanda and it's asinine to assume that's the point of the mid credits stinger.

Steve also has no clue how old Peter is but he did know he has super strength, agility, and reflexes. Blaming Steve for dropping the terminal on a kid is idiotic when that information wasn't available to him.

If you can't see how this plays into lex's father's abuse, then I don't know...

Holy shit, you really are just seeing whatever you want.

 

[ShutterMunster]

I don't even know how that's possible. The UC improves on virtually everything.

Yeah that's suspect as fuck to me. People are weird.

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

The music when Wonder Woman finally enters the Triforce. Perfection.

Can anyone explain what happened with the "dream" sequences? Was that Flash doing some timey wimey stuff to warn Bruce?

Yup, it's Flash coming back in time to warn Bruce. May be what Bruce sees before that isn't just a dream, rather a vision of what has happened in another parallel universe where Supes went rogue after Lois is taken away from him in his life and it's caused by Bats and Supes wants Bats and the son of the Batman dead!

 

[Fezan]

The music when Wonder Woman finally enters the Triforce. Perfection.

Can anyone explain what happened with the "dream" sequences? Was that Flash doing some timey wimey stuff to warn Bruce?

Speed force was showing Bruce visions of some alternate future and flash came to warn him

 

[Blader]

Reading this thread, you'd think BvS was utterly flawless.

If you can't see how this plays into lex's father's abuse, then I don't know...

It's really just Eisenberg doing another weird for the sake of weird tic, but I'm curious to see you follow up on this train of thought.

 

[Shaanyboi]

The music when Wonder Woman finally enters the Triforce. Perfection.

Can anyone explain what happened with the "dream" sequences? Was that Flash doing some timey wimey stuff to warn Bruce?

I'm literally just drawing a storyboard right now with the WW theme in the backgroound, and it just makes it so much cooler. lol I really wish I could actually use it for submission.

But yeah, Flash time traveled back to tell Bruce he's right about Superman being a tyrant... presumably. Assuming this isn't vague tablesetting for events even further down the line. Not sure how Lois Lane is the key though. Hey, maybe when Superman comes back, he'll be a mindless slave to Steppenwolfe or something, and Lois is what triggers his memories to come back. I dunno...

 

[guek]

Apparently Grace Randolph disliked the UC more than the TC. Which is odd because she named BvS her second favorite movie of the year so far.

Grace is kind of weird. Her whole campaign implying critics were bribed to bash BvS (not really but really *wink wink*) was deplorable. I wouldn't be surprised if she was saying the UC is worse as a misguided attempt to assert that the TC was great all along.

 

[Discotheque]

It's really just Eisenberg doing another weird for the sake of weird tic, but I'm curious to see you follow up on this train of thought.

it's one of his better scenes imo. it's creepy but it shows the perverse amount of control he likes over people. he only shoved that jolly rancher in the dude's mouth because he could.

i bet donald trump does that.

 

[atr0cious]

Except it literally makes no sense as far as manipulation goes. If that letter was meant to look like it's

I took it as lex looking at bruces pschyche and what drives him. He knows Batman exists, and Bruce Wayne is Batman, so figuring his parents death drove him to this is a logical step. It's why the robin suit is also important. Batman has lost all his loved ones and allies, and he blames himself. It's the point of the intro dream and why "Martha" matters. A big part of Batman is being mad nothing more was done to Joe chill, both in the alley or elsewhere. Batman begins' rhas even comments on his father's inaction in the alley, which Snyder nicely contrasts with his version trying to swing, setting up even more layers.

 

[Veelk]

Except it literally makes no sense as far as manipulation goes. If that letter was meant to look like it's from Scoot, it wouldn't make sense to make a jab at his parents or Jason or whoever. And if it was meant to lay in the guilt for everyone who died in Metropolis, like... there is literally no way you can lay guilt about that to Bruce. Like even just to poke his buttons, there is no reason he shouldn't be reading that while going "What? No I didn't." Did he fail by not driving fast enough? Or by not building his tower out of Nth metal? Or hiring an idiot who doesn't know to evacuate the building immediately? Or by not killing Superman sooner (y'know... the guy who revealed himself literally earlier that day)?

Like... how did he let his family die? I mean it's a very provocative message, but it doesn't have any real backing to it.

One recurring trope I find in these kinds of power fantasy series is the hero taking responsibility for things that he couldn't possibly have influenced. In good stories...or atleast mature ones...part of the arc is pointing out the very obvious fact that there is no way that that person had any power over that. In bad ones, this is just kind of never addressed and is forgotten about as the story goes on. It's also sometimes portrayed as a type of survivor's guilt, but again, this is only in stories with understanding how irrational that belief is. It may actually make some sense why a character like Bruce, the power tripping asshole that he is, would be hit by something like an accusation of being responsible for the alien invasion just because he was unable to stop it, but they would never carry that element to term. I think it's mostly around because it's antithetical to the power trip fantasy. Rejecting responsibiltiy for the alien attack or his parents death might be easy, but it's also an admittance that the character is not all powerful. That's not something BvS can openly admit to. Shit, it can't have it's two main characters talk like normal human beings, it's not going to have them admit they can't stop all the random bad shit happening in the world.

Edit: Again, bringing this back to marvel a little bit, that's one of the core tenets of the conflict between Captain America and Iron Man. Cap understands that sometimes, you can do everything right, and still have things turn out bad. Iron Man cannot stand that, and it leads him to extreme measures that play havok with the lives of the entire world. Sometimes he does that and the result is Ultron, sometimes the result is Vision. When it's good, great, but whne it's bad, he considers himself responsible for all the deaths it causes even more and it weighs heavy on him. Which was part of the main reason he wanted to sign the Accords. It was his opportunity to relinquish responsibility. Now, when an event like Sokovia happened, he could have the excuse of deferring the responsibility to higher ups.

 

[IconGrist]

Grace is kind of weird. Her whole campaign implying critics were bribed to bash BvS (not really but really *wink wink*) was deplorable. I wouldn't be surprised if she was saying the UC is worse as a misguided attempt to assert that the TC was great all along.

She really went all in to push the TC as some "you are beneath the greatness of this movie" nonsense. I'm not surprised she claims to not like the UC as much because it ruins the narrative she pushed about the genius nuance of the original cut.

 

[Shaanyboi]

I took it as lex looking at bruces pschyche and what drives him. He knows Batman exists, and Bruce Wayne is Batman, so figuring his parents death drove him to this is a logical step. It's why the robin suit is also important. Batman has lost all his loved ones and allies, and he blames himself. It's the point of the intro dream and why "Martha" matters. A big part of Batman is being mad nothing more was done to Joe chill, both in the alley or elsewhere. Batman begins' rhas even comments on his father's inaction in the alley, which Snyder nicely contrasts with his version trying to swing, setting up even more layers.

I get Batman's reasoning for why he's Batman. I'm asking how does "YOU LET YOUR FAMILY DIE" at all relate to the collapsing of Wayne Tower in Metropolis? Like I know it's Lex pretending to be Scoot (I just like saying his name.... Scoot), but that actual message makes no sense. There is literally no way fake Scoot (or anyone) could blame Bruce for what happened, and there's no reason Bruce should take it with even a grain of guilt, atleast as far as that individual message goes.

 

[broncobuster]

it's one of his better scenes imo. it's creepy but it shows the perverse amount of control he likes over people. he only shoved that jolly rancher in the dude's mouth because he could.

i bet donald trump does that.

That's what it reminded me of. Magnussen from Sherlock, flicking people's faces and stuff.

 

[guek]

She really went all in to push the TC as some "you are beneath the greatness of this movie" nonsense. I'm not surprised she claims to not like the UC as much because it ruins the narrative she pushed about the genius nuance of the original cut.

The worst part is when she doubled down on her attacks on Jon Campea because he had the audacity to attend the Civil War premiere, ignoring the fact that Campea is probably the biggest defender of MoS and BvS in the YouTube community.

 

[Palabrah]

My quick thoughts

https://soundcloud.com/mesctv/mesctv-mini-batman-v-superman-ue-thoughts

It made the movie better but... still not great

 

[atr0cious]

Reading this thread, you'd think BvS was utterly flawless.



It's really just Eisenberg doing another weird for the sake of weird tic, but I'm curious to see you follow up on this train of thought.

He's been abused by the most powerful man on earth, in his opinion, and nothing came of it. He watched his dad do what he wanted and probably called a good man by his peers. Now it's his turn and he's projecting. He just got what he wanted, and now he's pushing for more, intimately. It's a display of power that he has a government official literally eating out of his hand.

And the backhanded slight against him isn't necessary. Even rdjs adlibbing is run through writers and the director to make sure it's in character and true to the character and scene.

 

[Alienous]

I get Batman's reasoning for why he's Batman. I'm asking how does "YOU LET YOUR FAMILY DIE" at all relate to the collapsing of Wayne Tower in Metropolis? Like I know it's Lex pretending to be Scoot (I just like saying his name.... Scoot), but that actual message makes no sense. There is literally no way fake Scoot (or anyone) could blame Bruce for what happened, and there's no reason Bruce should take it with even a grain of guilt, atleast as far as that individual message goes.

It was a cool image for a trailer. Happy now?

It doesn't make sense as a message from the employee. The only thing it could mean is that he totally lost it, but the actual message doesn't make sense.

 

[lightskintwin]

I just watched it and enjoyed it for what it was. Does it not bother anybody that Clark Kent looks like he just stepped off a cover of GQ? Why is he dressed so fashionable and looking like a stud? I jokingly said to my brother this motherfucker Clark Kent looks cooler than Superman. Shit, it's not that people couldn't believe Clark Kent is Superman, it's that people can't believe Superman is motherfuckin' Clark Kent. LOL

 

[Kelsdesu]

Huh? It's clearly from hitting the wall. The blood trails down with the head

You're right.... ... .. ... Yeah Batman killed that dude.

 

[IconGrist]

The worst part is when she doubled down on her attacks on Jon Campea because he had the audacity to attend the Civil War premiere, ignoring the fact that Campea is probably the biggest defender of MoS and BvS in the YouTube community.

Yea, I'm not a Campea fan but she was completely in the wrong there.

 

[atr0cious]

I get Batman's reasoning for why he's Batman. I'm asking how does "YOU LET YOUR FAMILY DIE" at all relate to the collapsing of Wayne Tower in Metropolis? Like I know it's Lex pretending to be Scoot (I just like saying his name.... Scoot), but that actual message makes no sense. There is literally no way fake Scoot (or anyone) could blame Bruce for what happened, and there's no reason Bruce should take it with even a grain of guilt, atleast as far as that individual message goes.

It's written by lex as a catch all like my previous post, but also the Wayne tower and the many folks who died. I'm guessing Bruce played up the role of patriarch in the company, especially since he seems to know the folks, unlike his other versions where he's a spectre in the r&d department, and so lex is pushing that button. But remember, Batman is complex, so it's also about the bat family, and his parents. Batman is close to irrationality towards the end, so that line just digs deep beyond Wayne Tech.

 

[MisterHero]

One recurring trope I find in these kinds of power fantasy series is the hero taking responsibility for things that he couldn't possibly have influenced. In good stories...or atleast mature ones...part of the arc is pointing out the very obvious fact that there is no way that that person had any power over that. In bad ones, this is just kind of never addressed and is forgotten about as the story goes on. It's also sometimes portrayed as a type of survivor's guilt, but again, this is only in stories with understanding how irrational that belief is. It may actually make some sense why a character like Bruce, the power tripping asshole that he is, would be hit by something like an accusation of being responsible for the alien invasion just because he was unable to stop it, but they would never carry that element to term. I think it's mostly around because it's antithetical to the power trip fantasy. Rejecting responsibiltiy for the alien attack or his parents death might be easy, but it's also an admittance that the character is not all powerful. That's not something BvS can openly admit to. Shit, it can't have it's two main characters talk like normal human beings, it's not going to have them admit they can't stop all the random bad shit happening in the world.

Batman starts brutalizing criminals because he feels he's losing the war. And that's just Gotham.

Wonder Woman was there all along but didn't interfere for 100 years.

Superman struggles on how to help everyone. Just traveling between countries is seen as a political act. As Clark he has trouble deciding between stories to report on.

Batman finally admits he failed because he didn't want to hear Superman when he asked for help. He stops feeling guilty and asks for Diana's help. Alone, they are flawed; that's the whole point.

 

[Alienous]

Apparently Grace Randolph disliked the UC more than the TC. Which is odd because she named BvS her second favorite movie of the year so far.

It could be her genuine opinion, but I wouldn't be surprised if it came from a place of "The movie was great already", where praising the UE might be seen as contradictory to that statement.

The UE being a better cut is surprisingly close to unanimous amongst the impressions I've seen.

 

[Effect]

Apparently Grace Randolph disliked the UC more than the TC. Which is odd because she named BvS her second favorite movie of the year so far.

That was weird but at the same time not surprising. Something she said made it clear to me at the end of the watching she did when I looked through it. I think she mentioned she felt there was to much content and not as streamlined. Grace is a BIG Batman fan or claims to be. The UE restores a lot of Superman/Clark and and Lois (She does not like Lois as a charater at all or Amy Adams in the role. She's mentioned this before. She even does as she's watching.) content that was removed in the TC. That's what she is very likely objecting to as the UE isn't more heavily tilted toward Batman the way the TC is. That's most likely why she likes the TC more.

She didn't care for Man of Steel all that much. So from the jump it was the Batman aspect of BvS that really was pulling her to the praise side even if she didn't realize herself. So I was always wary of her overwhelming praise of the film even though I was glad it was just there in general.

 

[Alienous]

I just watched it and enjoyed it for what it was. Does it not bother anybody that Clark Kent looks like he just stepped off a cover of GQ? Why is he dressed so fashionable and looking like a stud? I jokingly said to my brother this motherfucker Clark Kent looks cooler than Superman. Shit, it's not that people couldn't believe Clark Kent is Superman, it's that people can't believe Superman is motherfuckin' Clark Kent. LOL

When Perry called him a nerd I chuckled, but he doesn't look like one. Even the way he stands isn't anaemic enough to fool anyone for long.

 

[MegaManTrigger]

Lex Luthor: Man of Steel.

I imagine it's hard to read that and not hate what Eisenberg done with the role.

That was the most frustrating thing.

That comic book did Lex Luthor extremely well. Not just from a villain perspective, but also as a protagonist, which forces the reader to understand him. Just an all around neat idea of showcasing Luthor's motivations.

 

[IconGrist]

It was a cool image for a trailer. Happy now?

It doesn't make sense as a message from the employee. The only thing it could mean is that he totally lost it, but the actual message doesn't make sense.

Well you have to remember Bruce thinks Wally sent those checks back, but that Wally thinks Wayne Industries never compensated him for his losses because he never got the checks. So everything Wally is saying Bruce associates with these messages on the checks. The real villain here is the terrible employee who did not inform Bruce about these checks a long time ago. Unless he was on Lex's payroll too but that's a leap I don't think is fair to make.

 

[Veelk]

Batman starts brutalizing criminals because he feels he's losing the war. And that's just Gotham.

Wonder Woman was there all along but didn't interfere for 100 years.

Superman struggles on how to help everyone. Just traveling between countries is seen as a political act. As Clark he has trouble deciding between stories to report on.

Batman finally admits he failed because he didn't want to hear Superman when he asked for help. He stops feeling guilty and asks for Diana's help.

You miss the point a bit here. Refusal to admit failure isn't a refusal to acknowledge failure, but a refusal to lay the blame of the failure of things that aren't your fault on yourself. Often, it's how people maintain idealism in a cynical world, something all the characters have clearly not done. Cynicism generally comes from two things, either a blanket claim to being the reason things are bad or a lack of expectation of things improving.

Which makes the whole "it's all my fault" thing a recurring element in the stories. If Bruce in any way buys into the "You let your family die" message, then he's also buying into the idea that he has responsibility for the whole world. Refusal to acknowledge your inability to help in this case isn't "There's no way things can go wrong" but "Things have gone wrong and it's my fault they did" even if there is no logical way to connect those two ideas.

 

[lightskintwin]

When Perry called him a nerd I chuckled, but he doesn't look like one. Even the way he stands isn't anaemic enough to fool anyone for long.

Dude is too buff in regular clothes and it shows. As Superman it looks great, but it's hard to hide as Clark Kent. And it's also the wardrobe their picking out for him, it's way too trendy. There's something wrong with Clark Kent's depiction when he still looks like he can take everybody's girl from them and fuck.

 

[Alienous]

Well you have to remember Bruce thinks Wally sent those checks back, but that Wally thinks Wayne Industries never compensated him for his losses because he never got the checks. So everything Wally is saying Bruce associates with these messages on the checks. The real villain here is the terrible employee who did not inform Bruce about these checks a long time ago. Unless he was on Lex's payroll too but that's a leap I don't think is fair to make.

Right, it's just the wording that didn't make sense. "You let your family die". They were his employees. If there had been a scene with Bruce where he told Wally(?) he was like family, then that might have hit home. But otherwise it's just a weird thing to say. It makes sense for Lex to send, as that would trigger Bruce, due to his parent's death. But it doesn't make sense for the injured employee to have sent. It's another contrived 'Martha' - there's no reason to use that wording other than for plot.

Maybe it was supposed to be seen as Wally(?) having a final petty dig at the deaths of Thomas and Martha Wayne?

 

[Warnen]

wow that was much better then what i sat thru in the theaters... why the fuck wasn't this just shown then?

 

[neojubei]

Once Civil War comes out on Bluray, I'll do a Veelk on it. But for now, I'll just say that Civil War has become my favorite superhero movie of all time. Before that, it was Nolan's Batman trilogy, not a specific movie, but how all 3 of them came together. A lot of their quality can be debated, but they hold a special place in my heart, partially because it's batman, partially because they historically can be argued to ahve popularized Superhero movies to be more than just empty popcorn flicks. They had heart, and I loved them for that.

Civil War has that same heart, done with far greater technical mastery of the handling of it's characters, mixed with some of the best action choreography I've ever seen in the Superhero genre. There's no absolutely flawless film and we can debate about CW's quality as well, but it carried a character journey, not just for one character but for many, better than almost any other hero film I've seen.

For two movies with the same premise, my reception to both could not be farther apart on the spectrum. BvS is one of the worst superhero movies I've ever seen, one that makes me actively depressed watching it, for various reasons. Civil War is one of the best.

I completely agree.

 

[atr0cious]

The real villain here is the terrible employee who did not inform Bruce about these checks a long time ago. Unless he was on Lex's payroll too but that's a leap I don't think is fair to make.

I love the little nooks in this movie. Like this statement on corporations and their compartmentalization. Then tie this to the corporate designed superhero logos that had to of been designed and focus grouped by lex corp and the wb by extension.

 

[icespide]

I love the little nooks in this movie. Like this statement on corporations and their compartmentalization. Then tie this to the corporate designed superhero logos that had to of been designed and focus grouped by lex corp and the wb by extension.

wow

 

[IconGrist]

Maybe it was supposed to be seen as Wally(?) having a final petty dig at the deaths of Thomas and Martha Wayne?

I completely admit this is a leap made by me since I have no way to back it up with anything less than circumstantial in the movie but Wally's family died in the Black Zero event (we see him visit the memorial and place their picture there) so I think it was a dig at Thomas and Martha. Like he thinks Bruce doesn't care about what happened to Wally's family because he didn't care about his since he was left with money and power. While Wally was left with nothing. Not even his legs.

 

[guek]

The real villain here is the terrible employee who did not inform Bruce about these checks a long time ago.

For real. That whole tactic could have blown up in Luthor's face. Or what if Scoots had direct deposit? Eh? EH?!

 

[Veelk]

wow

One of the earlier posts I made in this thread had me saying that if this movie literally threw poop at the audience, there would be people who reframe that into a philosophical statement about how shitty the audience is for wanting to see heroes fight. It wasn't well received by a few and I admitted I may have been overly rude to the person it was specifically in response to, but I feel the general principle of the statement has been validated.

 

[cr0w]

It's like people forget that art is subjective or something.

If you interpret a song differently than I do, should I spend three months telling you why you're wrong?

 

[MegaManTrigger]

I love the little nooks in this movie. Like this statement on corporations and their compartmentalization. Then tie this to the corporate designed superhero logos that had to of been designed and focus grouped by lex corp and the wb by extension.

Reaching very hard...

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Did you see the UC? What did you think of it? I remember you didn't hate the TC.

No I don't think it's out here yet.

Hey, I'm actually not on the Lex Luthor hate train here. It's certainly a strange incarnation of the character and not my first choice, but I think Eisenburg bizarrely pulls it off. My question wasn't a "Well, what about this then" as a criticism, but more just trying to make sense of the character.

Hell, you could argue that this inconsistency is part of his erratic nature. The same way he has trouble talking to a crowd of normal people, but he had no problem talking down to superman.

I'm sorry you feel that I'm not giving this characters or scenes an objective viewing just because of my dislike for the film as a whole, and I may be doing so in other places, but I don't mind Lex nearly as much as I do most things in here.

I'm not saying you're being non objective as contrast to people who are, as there is no such thing as an objective opinion of a film. I'm saying that there have been many times when I don't think these discussions can be resolved to everyone's satisfaction because we're interpreting things differently based on overall impression of the experience. I'm being generous to the film in some ways because I like it overall.

 

[MegaManTrigger]

It's like people forget that art is subjective or something.

If you interpret a song differently than I do, should I spend three months telling you why you're wrong?

Art is subjective, but that doesn't mean all interpretations are valid. Especially interpretations that rely on evidence presented by the artwork itself.

 

[cr0w]

Art is subjective, but that doesn't mean all interpretations are valid. Especially interpretations that rely on evidence presented by the artwork itself.

I'd argue that any personal interpretations are valid, because again, people see the world differently. Whether you agree with it or think it's valid is irrelevant, because it only matters to the person that holds the opinion.

I really don't see the point in the continuation of these extraordinarily circular arguments in every thread. What does it accomplish?