Batman v Superman Ultimate Cut |OT| - Men are still good (out now)

JB1981 said:
The movie makes it pretty clear that he doesn't care. He doesn't care to know him or investigate him. He views him as a threat to humanity who has caused massive destruction and murdered a lot of people he cared about. Just because Batman is intelligent doesn't mean he's not given to bouts of disillusionment or blind rage.
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Yeah, and the movie doesnt make a lot of sense for it. If he's going to go through all this effort to kill this guy because he's so mad, he would learn everything and anything about him. You cant care this much about killing a guy and arbitrarily not want to find anything you can to take him down.
 
You mean I didn't imagine him breaking into Lexcorp and stealing kryptonite, which he turned into a spear from the dead Robin's halberd?
 
cr0w said:
You mean I didn't imagine him breaking into Lexcorp and stealing kryptonite, which he turned into a spear from the dead Robin's halberd?
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Huh, didn't notice that part. I just find it really hard to swallow that the movie takes place what, 18 months after MoS? In all that time, Bruce's hate is still white hot and he's not researching Superman? He must be scrubbing through an immense amount of footage about him, including the heroic efforts. After all that time he forms no doubt in his judgment? It's a leap I can't make. Batman can be swallowed by grief but he's never been this braindead.
 
DrBo42 said:
Huh, didn't notice that part. I just find it really hard to swallow that the movie takes place what, 18 months after MoS? In all that time, Bruce's hate is still white hot and he's not researching Superman? He must be scrubbing through an immense amount of footage about him, including the heroic efforts. After all that time he forms no doubt in his judgment? It's a leap I can't make. Batman can be swallowed by grief but he's never been this braindead.
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What did you want him to learn about him? That his mom is named Martha? Is that your main beef? Was Bruce supposed to surf ancestry.com to find out Superman's family roots or something?
 
DrBo42 said:
Huh, didn't notice that part. I just find it really hard to swallow that the movie takes place what, 18 months after MoS? In all that time, Bruce's hate is still white hot and he's not researching Superman? He must be scrubbing through an immense amount of footage about him, including the heroic efforts. After all that time he forms no doubt in his judgment? It's a leap I can't make. Batman can be swallowed by grief but he's never been this braindead.
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People do dumb shit when they're afraid. Look at who has the Republican nomination right now.

And yes, that was fashioned from Robin's halberd. There's a metric ton of shit that is covered in the tech manual and art book that isn't even mentioned in the movie like that.
 
JB1981 said:
What did you want him to learn about him? That his mom is named Martha? Is that your main beef?
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The Martha thing is dumb but that's not the problem I'm talking about. How do you watch hours of cellphone footage etc of this guy saving people (while you're looking for weaknesses) and not start to feel doubt? Even if you think it exists when he delivers that "How many good men stayed that way" etc line with Alfred, there's no hint of it in his actions. In the fight when he's about to kill him, it's not a remorseful "I can't take the chance" type of moment, it's pure rage. How does that persist after 18 months of watching a good guy? It's just tone deaf with absolutely no subtlety or depth to it. In Dark Knight Returns the fight works because of their history with each side doing it because they have to. Here it feels like just an excuse for a movie.
 
He's not judging Supes based on what he is, he's judging based on what he could be. He's terrified of it, much the same way Luthor is. He just has the ability to have the moment of clarity to overcome it, whereas Luthor is too far gone.
 
DrBo42 said:
Huh, didn't notice that part. I just find it really hard to swallow that the movie takes place what, 18 months after MoS? In all that time, Bruce's hate is still white hot and he's not researching Superman? He must be scrubbing through an immense amount of footage about him, including the heroic efforts. After all that time he forms no doubt in his judgment? It's a leap I can't make. Batman can be swallowed by grief but he's never been this braindead.
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There are all sorts of real world examples of emotional response, like fear or hate, overriding and dominating the thought processes of a person.

Hell, I'd offer that most of our current political climate is fueled by it lol
 
Vyer said:
There are all sorts of real world examples of emotional response, like fear or hate, overriding and dominating the thought processes of a person.

Hell, I'd offer that most of our current political climate is fueled by it lol
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I am fairly positive this is exactly the kind of real world parallel Terrio was attempting to draw with this movie. I'm sure there's a contingent that will dismiss this as looking for depth in a shallow Snyder movie but it's there if you look for it.
 
DrBo42 said:
The Martha thing is dumb but that's not the problem I'm talking about. How do you watch hours of cellphone footage etc of this guy saving people (while you're looking for weaknesses) and not start to feel doubt? Even if you think it exists when he delivers that "How many good men stayed that way" etc line with Alfred, there's no hint of it in his actions. In the fight when he's about to kill him, it's not a remorseful "I can't take the chance" type of moment, it's pure rage. How does that persist after 18 months of watching a good guy? It's just tone deaf with absolutely no subtlety or depth to it. In Dark Knight Returns the fight works because of their history with each side doing it because they have to. Here it feels like just an excuse for a movie.
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The events are ramping up in the movie, bringing it to a head. For however long it was Superman has been doing nothing but saving people from disasters. Nothing morally questionable. Questions regarding what Superman means to society, what he could/should do are largely theoretical. Then Africa (it was Africa wasn't it?) happened, turning things political, providing the circumstances for that inquest or whatever it was, making the discussion about what Superman could/should do matter a whole lot more.

I'd agree a lot of things are not explained well in the film but disagree that things don't make sense.
 
KahooTs said:
He did find what he needed to take him down. That was a large portion of the film.
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cr0w said:
You mean I didn't imagine him breaking into Lexcorp and stealing kryptonite, which he turned into a spear from the dead Robin's halberd?
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angry old luthor could think of something easily emotionally manipulative as attacking the women in supes life to break him, bruce's whole plan hinging on luck, a recently discovered barely tested rock and bulking up at the last minute is pretty dumb in comparison
 
KahooTs said:
The events are ramping up in the movie, bringing it to a head. For however long it was Superman has been doing nothing but saving people from disasters. Nothing morally questionable. Questions regarding what Superman means to society, what he could/should do are largely theoretical. Then Africa (it was Africa wasn't it?) happened, turning things political, providing the circumstances for that inquest or whatever it was, making the discussion about what Superman could/should do matter a whole lot more.

I'd agree a lot of things are not explained well in the film but disagree that things don't make sense.
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is even more clear on the ultimate cut, all started with the incrimination of superman on africa, then thing after things just keep adding to the fuel of batman's hate, until the point the he is not even rational anymore.

the only thing that put him back into his senses is listening to his mother name
 
DrBo42 said:
In the fight when he's about to kill him, it's not a remorseful "I can't take the chance" type of moment, it's pure rage. How does that persist after 18 months of watching a good guy?
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Well he did just have that story about his ex-employee dumped on him. I'm sure having that shit on his plate didn't help cool him down. He 'lost face.'
 
WrenchNinja said:
angry old luthor could think of something easily emotionally manipulative as attacking the women in supes life to break him, bruce's whole plan hinging on luck, a recently discovered barely tested rock and bulking up at the last minute is pretty dumb in comparison
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To be fair he had luthors research on the kryptonite including the effect it had on Zod, so he knew what it could do.

Bruce's whole plan hinges on getting the kryptonite. Nothing goes into motion until he gets that.
 
WrenchNinja said:
angry old luthor could think of something easily emotionally manipulative as attacking the women in supes life to break him, bruce's whole plan hinging on luck, a recently discovered barely tested rock and bulking up at the last minute is pretty dumb in comparison
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You've never seen someone work out or train before a fight? Is this really a foreign concept to you?
 
Ashhong said:
To be fair he had luthors research on the kryptonite including the effect it had on Zod, so he knew what it could do.

Bruce's whole plan hinges on getting the kryptonite. Nothing goes into motion until he gets that.
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zods dead tissue doesn't really mean much compared to supes living solar infused tissue. The kryptonite is never actually tested on supes beforehand, its all on a hunch.

cr0w said:
You've never seen someone work out or train before a fight? Is this really a foreign concept to you?
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Huh? Where did i say that? I'm not sure how that's your takeaway from that post. I will say I haven't seen anyone go into a fight with two years to prepare and only depend on dumb luck
 
Is there any reason to think he's been preparing for two years? The destruction of the Wayne building obviously ate at him but it's not until Africa that Bruce is brought to the conclusion that he must destroy Superman and begins taking action, as far I understood.
 
Finally finished watching this.

Cannot believe they left out all those scenes. Especially Superman saving people at the end of the congress blast.

I thought Lois was useless in the movie, but the UC actually added quite a bit of content with her in it.

Oh, the Africa scene made no sense in the theater, now I actually know what is going on.

And that Russian dude was KGBeast the whole time?? Damn I didn't even know that my first viewing. They should have given him the Bane treatment, have him be a badass and go toe-to-toe with Batman...disappointed they just killed him like that. But I'm glad he appears again and again throughout the movie in the UC.
 
why as laurence fishburns character opposed of the idea, presenting the batman in the metropolis times?

because, considering the fact batman has been there for 20 years, it was not entertaining anymore?
 
WrenchNinja said:
zods dead tissue doesn't really mean much compared to supes living solar infused tissue. The kryptonite is never actually tested on supes beforehand, its all on a hunch.


Huh? Where did i say that? I'm not sure how that's your takeaway from that post. I will say I haven't seen anyone go into a fight with two years to prepare and only depend on dumb luck
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It means plenty. They can see the affect it has on the cells and the dead tissue vs without kryptonite. If the tissue is super strong even when dead, and then weak when around kryptonite it's pretty clear.

And overall this is a stupid point to even argue. It's a goddamn movie. How much proof do you need to be satisfied of a simple truth. There was an entire training and prep montage yet somehow it's all based on luck.
 
Blablurn said:
why as laurence fishburns character opposed of the idea, presenting the batman in the metropolis times?

because, considering the fact batman has been there for 20 years, it was not entertaining anymore?
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So the writers can get him to say "No one cares about Clark Kent taking on the Batman."
 
Blablurn said:
why as laurence fishburns character opposed of the idea, presenting the batman in the metropolis times?

because, considering the fact batman has been there for 20 years, it was not entertaining anymore?
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Essentially that

Same way we don't really report on car accidents unless it's something truly out of the ordinary.

Also for the other discussion, I guess I'm just accustom to them painting Batman like this at times, if I'm not mistaken he has created at least 3 different fail safes in his paranoia that has completely backfired (Tower of Babel, OMAC and WarGames) so the fact that he is driven to destroy Superman doesn't seem out of char for me. He gets an idea and runs with it for better or worse.
 
Ashhong said:
It means plenty. They can see the affect it has on the cells and the dead tissue vs without kryptonite. If the tissue is super strong even when dead, and then weak when around kryptonite it's pretty clear.

And overall this is a stupid point to even argue. It's a goddamn movie. How much proof do you need to be satisfied of a simple truth. There was an entire training and prep montage yet somehow it's all based on luck.
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What's pretty clear? Zods barely been on earth. So what if it cut him? For a stupid movie going audience that is enough, I guess.

Not really. If he was planning to kill this guy, he would have at least tried to test the kryptonite out himself. What prep montage? He stole some shit and built some muscle to wear the suit. This is the extent of the preparation and glorious planning of the Batman. What was the actual plan here? He uses bullets and sound to stall him for all of couple of seconds and hope to god that Superman wouldn't just melt his face or super speed punch through his torso since he believed so little in the alien so he could dose him with gas. The simple truth is that it was an incredibly stupid plan based on luck.
 
I just saw this for the first time. Was it the greatest movie ever, no, but I definitely hope they give this current universe a couple more films as I think all the characters are decent and fairly well casted. They just need a better writer/story to put them in.
 
Blablurn said:
why as laurence fishburns character opposed of the idea, presenting the batman in the metropolis times?

because, considering the fact batman has been there for 20 years, it was not entertaining anymore?
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i think someone mentions that there was a fight at a football game or something
 
Does Superman actually take any damage in this movie before the kryptonite?

In the Doomsday fight it looked like he was getting wrecked but every time he would get back up and have another go at Doomsday and he seemed fine without any scratches.
 
WrenchNinja said:
What's pretty clear? Zods barely been on earth. So what if it cut him? For a stupid movie going audience that is enough, I guess.

Not really. If he was planning to kill this guy, he would have at least tried to test the kryptonite out himself. What prep montage? He stole some shit and built some muscle to wear the suit. This is the extent of the preparation and glorious planning of the Batman. What was the actual plan here? He uses bullets and sound to stall him for all of couple of seconds and hope to god that Superman wouldn't just melt his face or super speed punch through his torso since he believed so little in the alien so he could dose him with gas. The simple truth is that it was an incredibly stupid plan based on luck.
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Superman didn't want to fight him and Batman was playing into his overconfidence. He lets bullets hit him; he doesn't run or shield himself. It's reasonable a Kryptonite bullet could catch him off guard.

Supes could've done a million things. The concept of having him struggle against anyone is a huge leap in itself. You call the movie audience stupid, but the comic audience has held this rivalry on a pedastal since the 80s, or maybe earlier.

A smart Batman would have a better plan? A smarter Batman would figure out that Clark Kent would never force his will over humans. Unfortunately, the idea of them fighting is really popular.

Try not to think of Batman being dumb, and be grateful he had any shot at all. :p

Blablurn said:
why as laurence fishburns character opposed of the idea, presenting the batman in the metropolis times?

because, considering the fact batman has been there for 20 years, it was not entertaining anymore?
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I think Perry believed Batman was a good guy and didn't want him exposed.

He did the same thing for Supes in MoS
 
WrenchNinja said:
What's pretty clear? Zods barely been on earth. So what if it cut him? For a stupid movie going audience that is enough, I guess.

Not really. If he was planning to kill this guy, he would have at least tried to test the kryptonite out himself. What prep montage? He stole some shit and built some muscle to wear the suit. This is the extent of the preparation and glorious planning of the Batman. What was the actual plan here? He uses bullets and sound to stall him for all of couple of seconds and hope to god that Superman wouldn't just melt his face or super speed punch through his torso since he believed so little in the alien so he could dose him with gas. The simple truth is that it was an incredibly stupid plan based on luck.
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So what if it cut him? They also speak to the cells turning into normal cells around kryptonite. How much more do you need? How much more is even possible?

Are you one of the ones who is opposed to the idea of Batman vs Superman in general? There was a long prep montage where he creates actual weapons to fight Superman. What the fuck else Do you expect from Batman?
 
Batman's fight plan was based on two things

- Superman's apparent "temporal benevolence" so that he wasn't going to kill him in a second.
- Superman's promise of destroying the signal. While it's not explicit, he told him that he'd go to the signal the next time, so he hides the spear inside the building with the signal on top.

I don't see why it's so hard to grasp.
 
Watching the UE now, what exactly was the Senate bombing supposed to accomplish?

Turn the public against Superman? Push Batamn over the edge and make him want to kill superman?
 
LosDaddie said:
Watching the UE now, what exactly was the Senate bombing supposed to accomplish?

Turn the public against Superman? Push Batamn over the edge and make him want to kill superman?
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It's primarily his revenge against the senator for blocking his import license on the kryptonite. also just to troll superman even further and stoke the fire in bruce wayne.
 
LosDaddie said:
Watching the UE now, what exactly was the Senate bombing supposed to accomplish?

Turn the public against Superman? Push Batamn over the edge and make him want to kill superman?
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And stop Superman from explaining Africa I believe. If Superman and Senator come to an understanding then and there on how things will proceed in future, everything Lex wants sort of dies out.
 
LosDaddie said:
Watching the UE now, what exactly was the Senate bombing supposed to accomplish?

Turn the public against Superman? Push Batamn over the edge and make him want to kill superman?
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Both. Add to that
- Avoid the truth about Africa being revealed
- Get revenge on the senator
- Lower Superman's morale
- Unsuspectingly kill Mercy (She knew too much)

It was pretty brutal. A master stoke.
 
A part the ultimate cut doesn't fix, maybe even makes worse, is Batman turning on his signal and waiting for Superman to show up.

Timeline is Luthor spots the batsignal, calls KG Beast to kidnap Ma Kent and Lois, Lex talks with Lois and tosses her off the helipad, Superman arrives and chats with Lex, and finally Superman confronts Batman in Gotham. We're talking, let's be generous and say two hours of Batman standing on that street waiting. Makes Batman seem like a dork. Maybe he's listening to a podcast to kill time.
 
broncobuster said:
A part the ultimate cut doesn't fix, maybe even makes worse, is Batman turning on his signal and waiting for Superman to show up.

Timeline is Luthor spots the batsignal, calls KG Beast to kidnap Ma Kent and Lois, Lex talks with Lois and tosses her off the helipad, Superman arrives and chats with Lex, and finally Superman confronts Batman in Gotham. We're talking, let's be generous and say two hours of Batman standing on that street waiting. Makes Batman seem like a dork. Maybe he's listening to a podcast to kill time.
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We know he emailed Diana while he was there, lol.
 
broncobuster said:
A part the ultimate cut doesn't fix, maybe even makes worse, is Batman turning on his signal and waiting for Superman to show up.

Timeline is Luthor spots the batsignal, calls KG Beast to kidnap Ma Kent and Lois, Lex talks with Lois and tosses her off the helipad, Superman arrives and chats with Lex, and finally Superman confronts Batman in Gotham. We're talking, let's be generous and say two hours of Batman standing on that street waiting. Makes Batman seem like a dork. Maybe he's listening to a podcast to kill time.
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I can't remember, but wasn't Martha kidnapped before? If it's after then yea that's kinda funny.

He should have FaceTime Diana for extra luls. Can you imagine that email in his robot voice?

It doesn't belong to you





It is you




Who are you?!?!
 
broncobuster said:
A part the ultimate cut doesn't fix, maybe even makes worse, is Batman turning on his signal and waiting for Superman to show up.

Timeline is Luthor spots the batsignal, calls KG Beast to kidnap Ma Kent and Lois, Lex talks with Lois and tosses her off the helipad, Superman arrives and chats with Lex, and finally Superman confronts Batman in Gotham. We're talking, let's be generous and say two hours of Batman standing on that street waiting. Makes Batman seem like a dork. Maybe he's listening to a podcast to kill time.
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Maybe he was setting up a mass-downvote campaign on the aquaman and cyborg youtube videos.
 
Seriously contemplating getting the BD Steelbook of this because the regular covers are fucking hideous.

Like seriously compare

179109-l-hippu2h.jpg
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to

175991-l-hi8iu8e.jpg
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or god have mercy on somebody forking out the extra dosh for this

180057-l-hiseu0d.jpg
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*vomits*
 
Ashhong said:
So what if it cut him? They also speak to the cells turning into normal cells around kryptonite. How much more do you need? How much more is even possible?

Are you one of the ones who is opposed to the idea of Batman vs Superman in general? There was a long prep montage where he creates actual weapons to fight Superman. What the fuck else Do you expect from Batman?
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How much more is even possible? There's is only one thing he really needs to do, test that shit. He could, I don't know, figure out Clark is Superman, meet him again at the Daily Planet with a kryptonite sample and see what happens. But nope, too busy being mopey.

I'm not opposed to them fighting at all, Im sure there are scenarios where Batman and Superman would want to fight each other without contrived reasons, I haven't seen any besides mind control, Reagan era stuff and this bullshit, but I'm sure there is one. I expected more of battle plan than a second of sonic weaponry, turret fire and a dependence on kryptonite gas. They have decades of comics to draw from and their own imagination, I'm sure they could think of something less idiotic for him to do.

Ahasverus said:
Batman's fight plan was based on two things

- Superman's apparent "temporal benevolence" so that he wasn't going to kill him in a second.
- Superman's promise of destroying the signal. While it's not explicit, he told him that he'd go to the signal the next time, so he hides the spear inside the building with the signal on top.

I don't see why it's so hard to grasp.
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So Batman counted on Superman not trying to kill him and also counted on Supes to just want to destroy the signal?

It's hard to grasp because it doesn't make much sense in either cut. The excuses that in here that he's blinded by rage so he wants to kill Supes but some how reasonable enough to figure out that Superman won't kill him but some how blinded by rage to have this stupid plan.

Like can you honestly say that this plan was well thought out? At least in TDKR, Bruce knew his plan was stupid and he never counted on actually winning.

I guess I probably wouldn't pick on the stupidity of it if the big title fight was even a little interesting.
 
I think Bruce's plan was to endure long enough so he could use the breathable cryptonite and the spear. Also, he could have figured that Superman wouldn't try to kill him or at least not immediately, because if he wanted that, he would do it when they met for the first time.
 
Let's be honest, there's no situation where Batman fighting Superman makes sense without making one of them look like an idiot. Likely both. It's a terrible match up that only a particular group of Batman fans care about. Batman being the more popular character is why he lasts more than 8 seconds in any given physical encounter against Supes.
 
The Icon said:
Let's be honest, there's no situation where Batman fighting Superman makes sense without making one of them look like an idiot. Likely both. It's a terrible match up that only a particular group of Batman fans care about. Batman being the more popular character is why he lasts more than 8 seconds in any given physical encounter against Supes.
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Still salty about the defeat?

Ha! true though
 
Can we have a Superman kill count too? Baldman is on two kills; Zod and Doomsday. Routh has 0 I think. What about Reeve?
 
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