MidnightRider
Banned
I found an easter egg in the snow map of armored kill
It's a travelocity gnome
It's a travelocity gnome
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Battlefield 3 |OT2| Mine! RendeZook! Wa Isl!
- Thread starter The Faceless Master
- Start date
MidnightRider
Banned
Metalmurphy
Member
The thing is, it was a 2 man job to keep an heli as people called it "OP", yet it only took 2 people to bring that heli down as well. Now it only takes 1. Helis weren't OP, they didn't need fixing, people just felt like whining was easier. And it worked.
In an ideal world, you're right, but the difference is that everyone is usually itching to get in the heli's. You dont need to coordinate with anyone to find a willing gunner for ya. Get in the pilot's seat and you're bound to have a gunner alongside within moments if not immediately.
Taking down a heli DOES require a bit of coordination, though, and its not a job that everyone is chomping at the bit to do.
I understand where you're coming from, but there's just not enough people working together to take down heli's to have it balanced in reality. Not on consoles, at least. With 64 player PC matches, it probably happens more often, but you'll be lucky to have a guy on your squad with a mic on on the 360, which means there's usually no ability to ask for help. You just have to get lucky and hope there's other people on your team/squad with the same idea as you at the same time.
Metalmurphy
Member
Actually you do need to coordinate, the gunner needs to have flares equipped which isn't always the case, and there needs to be communication over when to deploy them every single time. Its much easier on the ground, just as for a soflam and wait for the square, there is no problems with timings.
OttomanScribe
Member
I feel like flying the chopper well should confer a major advantage, having flying low being an effective guard against AA is one way to encourage this.
When I first started playing, with a good pilot and a skype connection I could rack up a good 50-60 kills a round, for 1 or 2 deaths. That is, I think, a bit a OP.
That said, teamwork like that should be pretty OP. I found that it took a concerted AA defence to shut us down, and that would mean 2 or 3 people dedicated to AA... which is 2 or 3 engies without AT capabilities, which would have a more general effect on the game.
Additionally this domination with teamwork was never the case with a drop in. It just never worked. As either gunner or pilot it didn't work.
When I first started playing, with a good pilot and a skype connection I could rack up a good 50-60 kills a round, for 1 or 2 deaths. That is, I think, a bit a OP.
That said, teamwork like that should be pretty OP. I found that it took a concerted AA defence to shut us down, and that would mean 2 or 3 people dedicated to AA... which is 2 or 3 engies without AT capabilities, which would have a more general effect on the game.
Additionally this domination with teamwork was never the case with a drop in. It just never worked. As either gunner or pilot it didn't work.
You dont need to. It helps, but there can be an unspoken understanding between a pilot and a chopper. As a gunner, I usually have the pilot launch first set of flares and then I'm the backup guy, basically. A decent pilot figures it out pretty quickly. I've gone on some pretty fantastic runs in heli's before without anybody using a mic.
No, it releases on the 11th for premium PC users.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
I've never seen anyone take down a heli with manpads before the patch. It still took only one person before, but that person was in the air.
Metalmurphy
Member
Heli locked with soflam, wait for ECM, shoot. How hard is it? And it's even easier with a tank.
Finding somebody using a SOFLAM is the hard part.
Metalmurphy
Member
But that's not a problem with the game mechanics, it's not a reason to say the heli was "broken" as many cried and it's not a reason to nerf it.
Metalmurphy
Member
Only releases on the 11th
SirButterstick
Banned
The more I play this game, the more I'm convinced people don't know what they're doing, and only play for their-fucking-selves. So many times today I got stuck on shit teams with players that don't know that basics.
Thats just your opinion. I think others feel that there's not enough teamwork going on to warrant it being so difficult to take down a helicopter.
Metalmurphy
Member
How is it my "opinon"? A team (more like 2 people) not working together is not a problem with the game mechanics.
That's like saying the game should have an auto revive button because you're playing in teams without enough medics.
Its your opinion that the only reason to change anything is because of game mechanics and they should just ignore how people actually play. DICE are simply recognizing the reality of the current situation and balancing it accordingly. Again, I can see your point, but you are the minority.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
If the manpads are useless without SOFLAM then that is a problem. Not sure if this was the best solution but it was probably the easiest one.
Metalmurphy
Member
They are useless when there is two people in the heli. It takes other 2 people to take it down.
They are not useless when there is only one.
So apparently the M16's arent affected by suppression at all. M16 doesnt need to be nerfed, it needs to be fixed! M16's can just shoot straight through suppression and it's not even fixed in the most recent patch. Link here:
I'm glad I just look at this game as a parody and just turn my mind off whenever I play it. All of my hope and faith for the BF series is gone and is now placed into Planetside 2 (and with good reason). PS2 is the new battlefield.
Also, it's confirmed that Below Radar has been reverted back to not affecting handheld AA's. So stingers now have the 1 hit disable buff + range buff + no below radar....and on top of that, helicopters dont have flares in the gunner's position. A bit too extreme....especially since they never stated that they took Below Radar off of stingers in the patch notes.
I'm glad I just look at this game as a parody and just turn my mind off whenever I play it. All of my hope and faith for the BF series is gone and is now placed into Planetside 2 (and with good reason). PS2 is the new battlefield.
The Faceless Master
Member
not enough... what!?
you needed 2 people communicating well and co-ordinating countermeasures for a chopper to stay up. to take it down, you didn't really need communication, just two people working together by one person noticing another person designated it.
i took down 4-5 helis a game EASILY in a couple games last night. EASILY!!! it was like "why fly? free points for me!" easy.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
Choppers could chain countermeasures and fly low to avoid a stinger lock. They were completely useless kit with 2 people or 20 people. I wouldn't have cared if they removed them from the game if they left them like they were before.
But now that they work they're going to have to take another look at stinger damage.
adamsappel
Member
It's "chAmping" at the bit.
One thing they could have done is increased the points for lasering a target and for that target's destruction. You get 10 measly points for a SOFLAM lock. And the SOFLAM doesn't really work on it's own in practice. So you have to babysit it, get a paltry amount of points, and when you get inevitably killed by the chopper or plane that isn't being destroyed by engies because a tank is an easier kill, now you're behind in k/d with little to show for it.
Butterstick..... you ARE a team by yourself. Everyone else is just a nice addition.
HDgaming42
Member
All this outrage from heli pilots is pretty entertaining. Here's the thing--pre-patch a 2 man heli crew that was good could live a whole damned round with ease. It's true--I've seen it. Below radar with staggered flares with breaking line of sight=no death for the heli. Of course this is on servers without competent jet pilots--or snipers who use all the jets as elevators but I digress...
This reminds me of when I used to roll in a 3-man tank crew before they nerfed the tanks. Yah the fact they nerfed them on multliple levels simultaneously really burned my ass, but guess what? Tanks were OP. Our crew would consistently score 1,2,3 in any server we went to, and frankly, we weren't that good (well, I speak for myself mostly).
If you're flying a heli and you're going 50-0 every damned round, it might be that you're damned good at what you do--or it might be that the heli was OP. I'm betting its the later.
Learn to work with the nerf. If its brutal they'll patch it back some in the months to come. Sucks, but you carry on. I sucked it up and improved my abysmal run 'n gun game. I still tank on occasion, but I no longer wreck the server I'm on by any stretch of the imagination.
Life goes on.
Plus it feels so good to Stinger a heli who's dropping altitude to engage Below Radar while his gunner tries to tear you to pieces. "Guess whose weapon is no longer useless against your low flying antics bitch?!"
This reminds me of when I used to roll in a 3-man tank crew before they nerfed the tanks. Yah the fact they nerfed them on multliple levels simultaneously really burned my ass, but guess what? Tanks were OP. Our crew would consistently score 1,2,3 in any server we went to, and frankly, we weren't that good (well, I speak for myself mostly).
If you're flying a heli and you're going 50-0 every damned round, it might be that you're damned good at what you do--or it might be that the heli was OP. I'm betting its the later.
Learn to work with the nerf. If its brutal they'll patch it back some in the months to come. Sucks, but you carry on. I sucked it up and improved my abysmal run 'n gun game. I still tank on occasion, but I no longer wreck the server I'm on by any stretch of the imagination.
Life goes on.
Plus it feels so good to Stinger a heli who's dropping altitude to engage Below Radar while his gunner tries to tear you to pieces. "Guess whose weapon is no longer useless against your low flying antics bitch?!"
The Faceless Master
Member
it's only been two days and people are already leaving choppers on the helipads on PS3.
secondspace
Member
I've got some sympathy with chopper pilots, the lock on mechanic is cheap and it sounds like they've made it too easy. The problem was that a good chopper team with a third player using a MAV could absolutely destroy public games on the consoles.
This sounds like the chopper is useless, but it shouldn't stop a team from winning.
This sounds like the chopper is useless, but it shouldn't stop a team from winning.
Metalmurphy
Member
All this outrage from heli pilots is pretty entertaining. Here's the thing--pre-patch a 2 man heli crew that was good could live a whole damned round with ease. It's true--I've seen it. Below radar with staggered flares with breaking line of sight=no death for the heli. Of course this is on servers without competent jet pilots--or snipers who use all the jets as elevators but I digress...
This reminds me of when I used to roll in a 3-man tank crew before they nerfed the tanks. Yah the fact they nerfed them on multliple levels simultaneously really burned my ass, but guess what? Tanks were OP. Our crew would consistently score 1,2,3 in any server we went to, and frankly, we weren't that good (well, I speak for myself mostly).
If you're flying a heli and you're going 50-0 every damned round, it might be that you're damned good at what you do--or it might be that the heli was OP. I'm betting its the later.
Learn to work with the nerf. If its brutal they'll patch it back some in the months to come. Sucks, but you carry on. I sucked it up and improved my abysmal run 'n gun game. I still tank on occasion, but I no longer wreck the server I'm on by any stretch of the imagination.
Life goes on.
Plus it feels so good to Stinger a heli who's dropping altitude to engage Below Radar while his gunner tries to tear you to pieces. "Guess whose weapon is no longer useless against your low flying antics bitch?!"
And in your outrage it never occurred to you to pick up a soflam and start marking? Or get a two man group in a tank and take the heli down in seconds?
bodyboarder
Member
Nice. Someone likes the amazing race.
The Faceless Master
Member
it doesn't stop as team from winning, it just stops people from using helicopters.
People who use SOFLAM just complain that nobody ever hits anything they laser. And Recon sucks in general.
Metalmurphy
Member
Recon sucks! Just nerf heli s instead...
Then get a tank. Everyone and their mother had the third seat unlocked by now, and there's usually more tanks then heli s to go around.
HDgaming42
Member
No, that never occurred to me. *rolls eyes*
There are only two scenarios where your comments make any sense:
a) you have never attempted any of the things you are suggesting
b) you have attempted your suggestions, but not against a good heli pilot
I stopped tanking specifically because of OP helis. A good heli will have you dead in one pass in the time it takes you to try a CITV lock and have it broken by ECM. Trust me. And if you manage to survive the first barrage the heli will either pop behind a building or mountain to recharge the ECM. You will jump out of the tank to try to repair the damage, but because they nerfed the heal speed of the torch and upped the damage tanks take from rockets you will not get your tank above 75% before the heli comes back and lays all hell into you, killing your 3 man crew.
A good heli pilot makes it priority #1 to take out SOFLAM. I played one match where I must have placed 20 SOFLAMs around the map with a crew WAITING to JAV and that heli found and killed my SOFLAM without anyone firing on him. The time to lock + ECM was more than enough for him to find and nuke my SOFLAM.
I don't really have favourite servers. I jump around based on map. I assure you there are a handful of pilots that possessed these skills.
The people complaining were not all clueless COD players. There were some serious problems with helis.
Even the strategy of equipping stingers and running from the tank on the second pass to try and get a lock on the passing heli didn't work more than a handful of times because the pilots would kill the tank and then swoop low--engaging below radar and becoming damn-near invulnerable.
You'll get over your anger. I did. And now I'm quite happy.
They'll nerf something else next. Maybe it will be something you find OP...HDgaming42
Member
I think you needed a better strategy against tanks.
Metalmurphy
Member
No, that never occurred to me. *rolls eyes*
There are only two scenarios where your comments make any sense:
a) you have never attempted any of the things you are suggesting
b) you have attempted your suggestions, but not against a good heli pilot
I stopped tanking specifically because of OP helis. A good heli will have you dead in one pass in the time it takes you to try a CITV lock and have it broken by ECM. Trust me. And if you manage to survive the first barrage the heli will either pop behind a building or mountain to recharge the ECM. You will jump out of the tank to try to repair the damage, but because they nerfed the heal speed of the torch and upped the damage tanks take from rockets you will not get your tank above 75% before the heli comes back and lays all hell into you, killing your 3 man crew.
A good heli pilot makes it priority #1 to take out SOFLAM. I played one match where I must have placed 20 SOFLAMs around the map with a crew WAITING to JAV and that heli found and killed my SOFLAM without anyone firing on him. The time to lock + ECM was more than enough for him to find and nuke my SOFLAM.
I don't really have favourite servers. I jump around based on map. I assure you there are a handful of pilots that possessed these skills.
The people complaining were not all clueless COD players. There were some serious problems with helis.
Even the strategy of equipping stingers and running from the tank on the second pass to try and get a lock on the passing heli didn't work more than a handful of times because the pilots would kill the tank and then swoop low--engaging below radar and becoming damn-near invulnerable.
You'll get over your anger. I did. And now I'm quite happy.
14 rockets on a tank does not destroy it, if you're in a tank without reactive armour/maintenance combo you're doing it wrong, If you're in a tank without at least 1 engineer as gunner, you're doing it wrong.
I've taken down lots and lots of helis, most by tank but also by stinger.
A good heli pilot is more dificult to take down? Well no freaking shit, that's why he's considered good, but he is (was) not impossible to take down.
Oh and for the record, I'm not really mad, shit happens people adapt, I just don't like DICE taking the constant "people complain, we nerf" route, specially when it makes no sense. Cause that will NEVER end.
secondspace
Member
I'd guess that they're responding to the numbers rather than complaints, there's no way anyone is reading their forums.
HDgaming42
Member
I guess we'll just ignore the existence of the heli gunner
So have I. Plenty in fact. Plenty of bad heli pilots have died on my sword. That's not what we're discussing...
At least we can agree on the fact it was impossible to take them down.
Metalmurphy
Member
I guess we'll just ignore the existence of the heli gunner
So have I. Plenty in fact. Plenty of bad heli pilots have died on my sword. That's not what we're discussing...
At least we can agree on the fact is was impossible to take them down.
You said one pass, not one pass then idling for the gunner, that will just get you killed even more easy, and a smart tank crew can out repair the gunner.
And there was a "not" missing there obviously.
HDgaming42
Member
We could trade strawman arguments all week, but honestly, I give up trying to convince you.
Maybe you're right. Perhaps helis routinely going 50-0 had no advantage whatsoever. DICE was short-sighted and reactionary to look at statistics like that and adjust the game.
Metalmurphy
Member
Consoles can't handle big maps lol
Synless
Member
I know, I've never been overly impressed with the the graphics anyway (on consoles), but this is atrocious! They should have never released these like this. I need a PC....
Wrong thread, lol I needed the peasant thread.
Red Blaster
Member
Still pissed that they keep treating console and PC versions as the same game, PC should really be getting its own balance patches.
