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[Strummerjones]

Most of these complaints are about the maps of BF3, not BF3 itself. How are the core gunplay mechanics, class design, flight models, etc. worse than BF2? It's not perfect, but overall, I think it's better than BF2.

Yeah, but I think with any game, and especially a multiplayer game like this where it seems there will never be mod tools and therefore no usermade levels, good mechanics are useless without maps that play to those strengths. BF3 has lots of levels that explicitly play towards the game's weaknesses, and which are just full of poor design in a broader sense regardless of specific gameplay mechanics. When you are stuck playing those maps forever, the design of them becomes a massive cause for concern. See this very thread (or the last one at least) for loads of people dropping out due to the tiny number of genuinely good maps. I would say BF3 has the worst map selection of ANY Battlefield game so far, and this is due to concerted effort by the designers to go in certain directions with the game that don't work.

I agree on most of the other points though. Gunplay is MILES better, and the class loadouts are the best of any Battlefield game. There was no reason to ever play Assault in BF2, but while things are far from perfect in BF3 there are reasons to play every class, even if some are (much) more consistently useful.

Flight model though... Oh boy. BF2 had a lot more complex and rewarding aircraft handling, especially when it came to helicopters. I was watching that video someone posted on here the other day of BF2 stunts, such as people flying two helicopters through a tiny circular tunnel doing barrel rolls. That's literally impossible to do in BF3. However, I think BF3's flight model was an acceptable simplification seeing as this is a more mass market game, and it's still possible to do a lot of fun stuff and the increase in ground clutter on maps makes for some really exciting NOE flying.

And even though Metro 64 is a LOL joke to all of us, you'll still find its 24/7 server heavily populated. I've used it to grind out some of the stupid unlocks (smoke grenades), but clearly it has strong appeal with a group of players. Unfortunately, that doesn't help against the main criticism of BF3's maps: unfocused, lazy design.

Exactly. That some people enjoy terrible shit doesn't make that shit not stink. If I don't specifically tick a gamemode in BF3 I seem to always get team deathmatch games. You know - the mode where you will often spawn directly in front of the same enemy anything up to 10 times in a row and be completely unable to defend yourself as they repeatededly kill you. Yet people actually choose to play this mode for fun.

 

[mr_nothin]

Sounds like a ton of personal nit picks and not really game problems others are seeing or having

Wouldnt most of the complaints be personal problems? My point is, is that there are mechanics that encourage a certain type of gameplay/playstyle whether ppl notice it or not.

 

[Woo-Fu]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the black Spec Ops camouflage supposed to block all/most of the thermal vision? Because that's all I wear but I'm still getting sniped from tanks and helicopters from ridiculous places.

IR in a copter is different than IRNV scope. It is white hotspots on black terrain, all players and vehicles stick out like campfires.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Exactly. That some people enjoy terrible shit doesn't make that shit not stink. If I don't specifically tick a gamemode in BF3 I seem to always get team deathmatch games. You know - the mode where you will often spawn directly in front of the same enemy anything up to 10 times in a row and be completely unable to defend yourself as they repeatededly kill you. Yet people actually choose to play this mode for fun.

I think the saddest thing is that some of these maps COULD have been great, either with slight design adjustments or a completely different utilization of their concepts.

Damavand Peak has a great TONKA playground that rarely sees action due to the clusterfuck of the tunnel, and let's not mention how amazing it would have been to incorporate the peak.

I had imagined, with Metro, a huge map that incorporated part of the city and a wide open park, with the subway being an afterthought in Conquest.

Kharg has a HUGE area near the RU spawn that is full of buildings/silos, but otherwise unutilized. And why not take advantage of the terrain and add a few vertical cap points?

That's probably my biggest disappointment, is the lack of verticality in almost all of the maps. I like Op Firestorm, but it's fairly boring in terms of design--mostly flat and linear. The maps is surrounded by these epic, beautiful cliffs--USE THAT SHIT. BF2 incorporated mountain terrain into a lot of its maps.

Even small maps like Seine are boring. US side of the river is just a cookie-cutter collection of blocks and courtyards. The RU side at least has different levels/stairs that make it kinda interesting.

 

[José Mourinho]

So are the helicopters the weakest vehicle in the game. There's nothing that can't shoot them down.

 

[TheSeks]

does anybody play as an agressive recon in BFBC2 style?

Never did in BC2 but you pretty much have to in BF3. :/ Sniping in BF3 utterly sucks because I can never get the damn tracer to view at all. :|

Also I just love getting 4-5-6 kills and having to work my ass off with the SVD to get the damn hits to register only to miss out on one last kill for the damn sniper ribbon every goddamn round.

I also love how randoms can't seem to defend at times in Rush when I'm playing sniper. But switch classes and OH HO HO they magically can. :|

 

[Arnie]

They changed the way spawning works, they sped up running speed ALOT, they added squad beacons, changed the way prone works completely and a bunch of other tweaks and changes. Everything they did was to encourage faster and more "intense" gameplay.

I still have footage i recorded from the alpha and i'll post it as soon as i can.

I'd be very interested to see this footage comparison. I played the Alpha, Beta and Final and can't see any differences in movement speed or how prone works.

 

[Anton Sugar]

So are the helicopters the weakest vehicle in the game. There's nothing that can't shoot them down.

Helicopters can be taken down fairly easily, actually. It, again, just requires teamwork. I've seen choppers/gunners on the B2K maps go 40-50 kills to 5-10 deaths, fairly regularly, because no one was focusing on taking them down or no one has the javelin equipped. I've had targets lased via CITV for 30 seconds without anyone on my team trying to take them out.

They really need to add a laser beacon to tanks with CITV locked. God-mode, otherwise.

 

[SapientWolf]

So are the helicopters the weakest vehicle in the game. There's nothing that can't shoot them down.

I'm gonna say that distinction goes to jets.

 

[Wthermans]

I'm gonna say that distinction goes to jets.

Hardly. Helis have it a lot worse than Jets. All airpower is rather weak though.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

Helicopters can be taken down fairly easily, actually. It, again, just requires teamwork. I've seen choppers/gunners on the B2K maps go 40-50 kills to 5-10 deaths, fairly regularly, because no one was focusing on taking them down or no one has the javelin equipped. I've had targets lased via CITV for 30 seconds without anyone on my team trying to take them out.

They really need to add a laser beacon to tanks with CITV locked. God-mode, otherwise.

On CQ on Operation Firestorm or Caspian Border I try as fast as possible as a sniper to jump in a tank and drive off. Then, when there's no teammate around I put the SOFLAM in a good position, laser designate the target, jump back into the tank and do all the work alone.
It's sad that it doesn't work in a team.

 

[excaliburps]

Is it just me or am I experiencing that dreaded "aim" issue with the PS3's B2K expansion?

If so, such a mess. VOIP, input problems among other things...it is a great game but one burdened by stupid bugs that I have no idea how it escaped QA.

In another note, I think this might be my highest in-game score to date.

http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/battlereport/show/14668296/4/233890030/

Yeah, I'm proud, so sue me!

 

[Zeppelin]

I'm so sick of the SOFLAM jumping between targets. Jesus fucking Christ DICE, how hard can it be? If I'm controlling it manually I want it to lock on to whatever I point it to, not jump around between targets like a god-damn ADD kid on crack.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

I have a hard time to understand SOFLAM. I have to lock onto vehicles manually most of the time. If I just let it sit there, an automatic lock-on is very rare.

 

[TheSeks]

Automatic lock works, but it's very slow. One lock at a time, like manual SOFLAMing. Put it in a "hallway"/road and you generally get people as they're coming down the road before they even know what hit them.

Issue with the SOFLAM is: 1) small range, barely useful 2) no one using javalin to lock on.

If the the RPG-7 was able to lock on like BC2 I think it would be infinitely more useful than it currently is. The fact that the RPG-7 can't be dumb-fired and smart-fired like BC2 is crazy to me.

 

[José Mourinho]

Helicopters can be taken down fairly easily, actually. It, again, just requires teamwork. I've seen choppers/gunners on the B2K maps go 40-50 kills to 5-10 deaths, fairly regularly, because no one was focusing on taking them down or no one has the javelin equipped. I've had targets lased via CITV for 30 seconds without anyone on my team trying to take them out.

They really need to add a laser beacon to tanks with CITV locked. God-mode, otherwise.

I just find every time I'm in heli's I'm constantly being locked on to. I've been shot down by everything. There are rounds where you can dominate in the heli but they're rare for me. My pet hate is people who resort to flying jets in to you. They neatly always blow me up and somehow survive.

 

[PoweredBySoy]

and let's not mention how amazing it would have been to incorporate the peak.

For reals. I actually don't mind Damavand too much, but yeah, it would be a thousand times better if they had placed an extra point at the peak of the mountain with a couple windy paths up each side.

 

[Arnie]

Automatic lock works, but it's very slow. One lock at a time, like manual SOFLAMing. Put it in a "hallway"/road and you generally get people as they're coming down the road before they even know what hit them.

Wait Soflam locks onto things even if you aren't manually looking into it?

mindblown.jpg

 

[Patrick Bateman]

For reals. I actually don't mind Damavand too much, but yeah, it would be a thousand times better if they had placed an extra point at the peak of the mountain with a couple windy paths up each side.

That's a very nice idea. Just add a fourth flag on it, two paths (left & right) up the hill and bam!

 

[Zeppelin]

Automatic lock works, but it's very slow. One lock at a time, like manual SOFLAMing. Put it in a "hallway"/road and you generally get people as they're coming down the road before they even know what hit them.

Issue with the SOFLAM is: 1) small range, barely useful 2) no one using javalin to lock on.

There's nothing wrong with the range. It good enough since they patched it. The problem is that the sensitivity for controlling that piece of shit equipment is way too low, it jumps between targets and takes too long time to set-up (why put me in SOFLAM mode when I set up? Why would I ever want to control it directly when I can use it remotely?).

Wait Soflam locks onto things even if you aren't manually looking into it?

mindblown.jpg

Also, I'm not sure if automatic lock ons will give you the designated hit bonus worth the damage done. It's pretty buggy with that.

TL;DR
The SOFLAM is a great idea but the implementation is shit and it makes you wonder if they even tested that shit at all. The few times it work it's great. Setting one up in a crane on Firestorm, lock on to a tank and then immediately see 2-3 Javelins going up from different locations all around the map and killing the tank in seconds is... glorious.

 

[DietRob]

I'm so sick of the SOFLAM jumping between targets. Jesus fucking Christ DICE, how hard can it be? If I'm controlling it manually I want it to lock on to whatever I point it to, not jump around between targets like a god-damn ADD kid on crack.

This has been happening to me a lot lately with the Javelin. There will be an manned AA or Tank directly in my line of sight but it's sitting by a unmanned jeep or other vehicle and I have a hell of a time trying to lock onto what I want it to.

 

[iam220]

I don't think a plea to populism really helps here (or God knows, talking about videogames in general).

The plea to populism was less about "this game is awesome because it's popular" and more about countering the claim that dice is dumb for designing this game they way they did. They're out to make money and if they succeed, they're not dumb and therefore the plea to populism was very much relevant to the discussion.

As for the rest of your post, I agree, vanilla had some shitty maps. More than half of them sucked and I never played them. Now we have 4 awesome maps combined with the 3 vanilla maps that don't suck for a total of 7 ..... is 7 not enough maps?

I've read your post carefully and couldn't really find a substantial complaint that didn't directly relate to the broken maps that you don't have to play, (many servers rotations specifically filter them out) and yet you're still disappointed with the game ... so what am I missing here?

Mr. Nothing I can understand, he doesn't like some of the mechanics, focus and faster pace introduced to bf3, I just happen to have the opposite opinion on those matters.

 

[Arnie]

Think the servers are down on 360.

 

[leng jai]

Same problem here.. its been 5 days and still no fix for me.

http://help.ea.com/article/known-issues-with-back-to-karkand

EA/Dice don't seem to care.

Ridiculous.

 

[metalshade]

does anybody play as an agressive recon in BFBC2 style?

Honestly, I think its the ONLY way to play recon, I hate snipers with a vengeance in this game, I will sneak to the other side of the map just to take out a single sniper if necessary.
I outfit mine with a usas or DAO and Soflam, with extra ammo perk.
I think I have used a sniper for about 2 mins in my whole 80+ hours, unless I take the scope off it, and go in close.

 

[Spl1nter]

Honestly, I think its the ONLY way to play recon, I hate snipers with a vengeance in this game, I will sneak to the other side of the map just to take out a single sniper if necessary.
I outfit mine with a usas or DAO and Soflam, with extra ammo perk.
I think I have used a sniper for about 2 mins in my whole 80+ hours, unless I take the scope off it, and go in close.

That's not aggressive recon.... Its about your play style when still using the sniper rifle and not any of that red dot/4x scope bs either, m98b with 8x scope. However, I have used the semi-auto with holo, its pretty good.

 

[metalshade]

That's not aggressive recon.... Its about your play style when still using the sniper rifle and not any of that red dot/4x scope bs either, m98b with 8x scope. However, I have used the semi-auto with holo, its pretty good.

Oh I get you, Sorry, I misunderstood.
But honestly, I really dont like snipers at all, I just couldnt bring myself to cheese the opposition like that.
I like to give them a fair chance, so I try to avoid using cheap tactics.
Now that I say that, I think I might be giving them more honour than they deserve........

 

[timmytheman123]

What do you guys think about the proposed change that would give bolt action snipers a OHK from upper chest shots at close range? As someone who often ran around with a 4x scope on the sv98 in BFBC2 and played as an "aggressive recon player", I wouldn't like the change. I have adjusted pretty well in the game and don't have that much problem getting headshots in close quarter combat (<5 m).

 

[DietRob]

OMG the GAF server is full!

I'll happily wait in queue even though I should be VIP!!!

 

[metalshade]

What do you guys think about the proposed change that would give bolt action snipers a OHK from upper chest shots at close range? As someone who often ran around with a 4x scope on the sv98 in BFBC2 and played as an "aggressive recon player", I wouldn't like the change. I have adjusted pretty well in the game and don't have that much problem getting headshots in close quarter combat (<5 m).

I already get OHK by bolt actions, close or far, I thought that was normal?!

 

[Divius]

OMG the GAF server is full!

I'll happily wait in queue even though I should be VIP!!!

NeoGAF Europe Community 0/64

;_;

 

[DietRob]

OMG the GAF server is full!

I'll happily wait in queue even though I should be VIP!!!

Ahh, wait a second. Not a single GAF member is on the server. Kinda defeats the point of playing on it if I'm just playing with a bunch of pubs.

Oh, well.

 

[jwhit28]

The server is full but there is no one in mumble.

 

[timmytheman123]

I already get OHK by bolt actions, close or far, I thought that was normal?!

The M98 does 95 damage up close, while the other bolt actions do 75.

 

[leng jai]

They seemed to have fixed my issue - joining B2K maps without issue now. These maps are so much better its ridiculous.

 

[DietRob]

It's too bad I have to run out and do xmas shopping on the one day that the GAF server is full but that's what I get for being a procrastinating loser.

I'll try to hop back on later tonight!

 

[Zeppelin]

I told Demize99 to fix the SOFLAM and he replied they're working on it. Now I feel bad because my message wasn't very nice. God, I'm so glad I don't have his job.

 

[Cuban Legend]

3:30 est Full server and no gaffers on. What the hell happened and how do we do it again?

we didnt do shit. I checked it on Battlelog and no gaffers started it up and no more than 2 GAFers at a time were on there all day. Shit is magic son.

(i'll be adminning remotely tonight until 1am EST, so if you have a problem let it be known in mumble or in ingame all-chat. I can see all chat and respond accordingly, GAFBROS.

It's STILL populated/packed now, so come on in and get your game on, GAF!

 

[akira28]

I tried to, but it's really not the same. I think it may be the lack of C4.

It's really lame too because whenever I play as an aggressive Recon, I get so many opportunities to blow up tanks if only I had some C4! I hate seeing a tank and not being able to do anything besides target it with a SOFLAM hoping I have teammates competent enough to shoot the tank.

Yeah I really miss the C4 and claymores and even the throwable motion sensor, that was seriously my shit. The deployable one isn't nearly as useful, like, at all.


edit: also...borrowed some cash from my bros. So B2K, here I fucking come...tonight!

 

[AlmostMilk]

I have 10 kills with all of the new weapons and don't have the achievement. I am thinking it might be glitched.

 

[TheSeks]

I have 10 kills with all of the new weapons and don't have the achievement. I am thinking it might be glitched.

Abuse the FAMAS until it unlocks. It's bugged.

 

[Jim E. Rossler]

So I got a legit 1253m head shot

 

[eternaLightness]

Slugs are pretty ridiculous, but I wish they could at least turn the sound of them down. Sounds like explosions going off all around you. Kinda annoying.

 

[SapientWolf]

Slugs are pretty ridiculous, but I wish they could at least turn the sound of them down. Sounds like explosions going off all around you. Kinda annoying.

Sure those aren't frags?

 

[EleventhDoctor]

Are Stingers just completely worthless now? I can never shoot down anything-if the flares don't go off, they still take the hit and keep going.

 

[TheSeks]

Are Stingers just completely worthless now? I can never shoot down anything-if the flares don't go off, they still take the hit and keep going.

Stingers got nerfed, so in a fashion: Yeah. They want "team work" but good fucking luck with that, DICE. :/

Might as well pray the enemy is morons and stay on the boat in Kharg now.

 

[EleventhDoctor]

Stingers got nerfed, so in a fashion: Yeah. They want "team work" but good fucking luck with that, DICE. :/

Might as well pray the enemy is morons and stay on the boat in Kharg now.

Yeah well that's bullshit. I can't shoot down one chopper now. Fucking sucks.

 

[AlmostMilk]

Abuse the FAMAS until it unlocks. It's bugged.

I have 200 kills with the Famas. I only have just 10 kills with the snipers though. I will try to get one more kill each with them and see if it unlocks then.

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

Dude was in a chopper earlir today where my guys and I could swear he had to be cheating. went like 30+-3 when almost nobody else hit double digit kills, he kept spamming the spawn points on Hill point on Caspian. We rocked this dude with multiple rockets and he did not go down once. Not even using flares. It was literally like he was invincible

 

[Tawpgun]

Pilot AAAANNNND Gunner having flares is absolute bullshit. If they're in communication the only way to bring down a helicopter is with a SOFLAM and Javelin...