Black man fatally shot by police in Los Angeles; Family says was lying down when shot

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Who says I'm saying they are covering up murder?

Do you guys want cops to go out and shit on their fellow colleagues during a fucking investigation?

The system IS broken, but I hardly blame the cops not killing every other black kid walking down the street as the major problem.
Given that we're talking about cops shooting unarmed civilians in this thread, what else would we be discussing? And yes, I want cops to follow the law, which involves being honest during investigations. That is, in fact, exactly what I want. If a cop breaks a rule, his buddy should narc him the fuck out. Because they are cops, not high school students. They are bound by the law they enforce, or they are simply paid thugs. You don't get to dress yourself in the concept of noble service while covering up crimes against those you serve.

And would you like to clarify that last line, because I think your sentence might have run away from you there.
 
Who says I'm saying they are covering up murder?

Do you guys want cops to go out and shit on their fellow colleagues during a fucking investigation?

If they know their colleague just killed an innocent person then yeah, I DO want them to say something. Fuck that being quiet shit.

You're supposed to uphold justice and peace, but you let your friend murder an innocent with no consequences? Have the family of the victim suffer because you're fucking afraid to be an outcast? Fuck that. Being quiet is as bad as killing the innocent.
 
Soo.. you're saying we should legalize marijuana?
:lol

That would be one thing. Or turning down the volume on making drug-related arrests. It's hard to really figure out the solution, because harder drugs ruin people's lives and destroy communities.

More accountability for police and public officials would probably lead to a system that works better and limits instances of abuses of power. It sucks that these things keep happening.

Edit: I'm not sure what's funny.
 
Yes? If they are bad cops don't defend them. How is this so hard to understand?

What does defend them even mean? Are they going to talk to the local news station? Are they going to take a stand during trial?

Stop blaming all the cops who want to provide for their fucking family and wish to sustain their jobs. THEY are not the problem, the system that will destroy their career if they do speak out is the problem.
 
Just to get it out of the way, there are good cops that has nothing to do with the piece of potentially wrong decision that ended up in someone losing their lives.

#notallcops






/s

OT: RIP :( Hope there will be some clarity and more information on the case soon so appropriate actions can take place.

lets just ban police departments everywhere. Certainly a segment of GAF will be delighted.
 
What does defend them even mean? Are they going to talk to the local news station? Are they going to take a stand during trial?

Stop blaming all the cops who want to provide for their fucking family and wish to sustain their jobs. THEY are not the problem, the system that will destroy their career if they do speak out is the problem.

I think at some point you have to question whether it is a living worth earning if it means that you have to lower yourself to covering up murders.
 
What does defend them even mean? Are they going to talk to the local news station? Are they going to take a stand during trial?

Stop blaming all the cops who want to provide for their fucking family and wish to sustain their jobs. THEY are not the problem, the system that will destroy their career if they do speak out is the problem.

Their willingness to go along with and sustain that system because of a perceived lack of options or unwillingness to seek other options is a problem.

They are all adults responsible for their actions and should behave accordingly.

Your position is obviously that of someone who believes their appearance will never cause them trouble
 
Haha.

The image that comes to my mind is when Hinata's dad jumped in front of Neiji's dad and his "killing intent."

ukMlu1Z.jpg

Eyes of a killer
 
What does defend them even mean? Are they going to talk to the local news station? Are they going to take a stand during trial?

Stop blaming all the cops who want to provide for their fucking family and wish to sustain their jobs. THEY are not the problem, the system that will destroy their career if they do speak out is the problem.

We shouldn't have to see tearful witnesses on TV first when this kind of shit happens. Period. The cops should be front and center spilling the fucking truth about what happened without all this mealy-mouthed under investigation dallying. Sorry about their poor families but when a life is snuffed, some justice has to be served.
 
This is not from the case in question, but it does give some insight on what a cop might be up against. Not comparing to this case. Was just posted on reddit:



It looks like your questions have been sufficiently answered, but I'd like to share this story with you. This happened to me recently:
At about 01:30 in the morning, I pulled up in my cruiser to a medical office building to follow up on a theft case I was working on. The parking lot is not very well lit. As I step out of my cruiser, a man runs towards me, holding something in his right hand. It's dark, and all I can make out is that it's thin, about 6" long, and one half is wrapped in cloth. He starts swinging it around, yelling "I'll fucking kill you! I'll eat you! I'll fuck you!"
I draw my firearm, point it at him, and start giving loud verbal commands. At the same time, I radio dispatch for help. He's not responding to my commands. He's still yelling, swinging the item, making stabbing motions, making threats. He starts approaching slowly, I back off to keep distance. We start moving into the street. About that time my backup shows up. Other officers draw down on the man, start giving verbal commands. He's still not responding.
At this point, it would have been prudent to tase him, but my department doesn't equip us with tasers.
We finally end up in a well lit area across from a restaurant (and boy oh boy, were the cell phones out.) As we're continuing to go back and forth with this guy, one of my backup units gets in close enough to see that what he's holding isn't a knife, and doesn't look like a shank, either. He hits the guy with OC spray to no effect, and then moves in with a baton, striking the hand holding the object. The guy finally drops the object, we all move in and take him down. Bonus: He's covered in feces and urine.
So what was the object? All that time? A ninja turtles toothbrush.
Here's the thing: At any time during that encounter, from the time he initially approached me aggressively to the time we were finally able to see what the item was, had he charged at me or another officer, or a bystander, I (we) would have shot and killed him. Now I did have the presence of mind during the encounter to wonder if the item was in fact a knife, because I've had similar experiences before. But given his behavior, and the way he was brandishing it, I had perfectly good reason to believe that it was a weapon. More importantly, I'm not going to let my own doubts get me killed.
So what if I had killed him?
Well, the cell phone videos would be out. The media would report, initially, the most simple version of the story:
Townsville Metro Police Kill Man Wielding Toothbrush.
Reddit is pretty quick with things like this, so shortly thereafter on the front page:
Police officer MURDERS man over ninja turtles toothbrush.
The initial news headline would play out for a bit, until they got a few more details.
Townsville Metro Police Shoot Young Black Man Wielding Toothbrush.
Another media outlet, upset that they didn't get the initial scoop, goes with something a bit more sensational to grab the media consumer's attention:
Townsville Police Kill Unarmed Young Black Man.
There you have it. The average media consumer's opinion has already been formed by the headline - many won't even bother to read the story. Even if they did, the story will contain the most basic of details. Cops shoot guy, guy only has toothbrush.
Here's what the stories won't contain: My thoughts and feelings upon the initial encounter. The things that I can (or can't) see. My fear. My wondering if I'm about to kill a man, and how I'm going to deal with that. Am I going to break down like so many others? Become an alcoholic? What if it doesn't stop him? What if he kills me? I need help. Where are they? What's taking them so long? Who is this man? Why does he want to kill me? What if a bystander walks into this? I can't let him take a hostage. Goddamnit where is my backup?!
And then later: My god, I almost killed a man over a toothbrush. Would it have been justified? Maybe the courts would have exonerated me, but would I still get fired? Could I forgive myself? Great, I've got someone else's shit and piss all over me for the third time this week.
And then, much later...well, just imagine, after all that, how it feels to see someone watch a massively abbreviated news report on the incident, form an entire opinion based upon that miniscule amount of information (and their complete lack of qualified expertise or experience) and condemn me for my decisions. As weird as it sounds, this is my job - my expertise. Criticizing me for how I deal with a shit covered maniac is no different than you walking in on an open heart surgery and telling the surgeon he's using the wrong scalpel.
Don't let the media form your opinions. Understand that investigations can take a very long time. Most importantly, understand that these situations are often so massively complicated that no journalist could ever truly convey all of the details - especially what's going on in my head when I have to make that critical, life altering decision.

you should have tasers. i dont understand why you arent provided with tasers but have guns? i agree though that handling any situation like this is stressful and tough. but i feel that you and other officers need to be provided with a variety of non-lethal tiols to defuse a situation.
 
What does defend them even mean? Are they going to talk to the local news station? Are they going to take a stand during trial?

Stop blaming all the cops who want to provide for their fucking family and wish to sustain their jobs. THEY are not the problem, the system that will destroy their career if they do speak out is the problem.

All people want is for cops to not escalate confrontations directly into uses of lethal weapons, and for ACCOUNTABILITY to come into play when they commit manslaughter during these incidents. They want departments to investigate the actions of cops more neutrally, and charge cops accordingly.

What the hell is so unreasonable about that?
 
Kind of unrelated, but do you agree with policy changes that would make on duty cops have to wear cam helms with audio/video?

Video, yes. Audio, only if it records after an officer turns on lights/sirens. (Some State Police have this).

I say this about audio because most equipment out there is like the PS4 share feature. You turn on the siren and it records the 15 minutes of audio before the light/sirens where turned on and the whole police stop. The video has to be turned in unedited and will be used in court. And often a lot of private stuff of officers talking between them will be heard in court that was before the stop even took place.

But yes, I approve of cameras recording police. It helps officers more than you think.
 
What does defend them even mean? Are they going to talk to the local news station? Are they going to take a stand during trial?

Stop blaming all the cops who want to provide for their fucking family and wish to sustain their jobs. THEY are not the problem, the system that will destroy their career if they do speak out is the problem.

Speaking out could save a person's life, dude. If that actually destroys their career, that's salvagable. What happens when they don't speak out?
 
What does defend them even mean? Are they going to talk to the local news station? Are they going to take a stand during trial?

Stop blaming all the cops who want to provide for their fucking family and wish to sustain their jobs. THEY are not the problem, the system that will destroy their career if they do speak out is the problem.

Your head. Its not working.

It will not change until they speak out. They can feed their families some other way without covering up the abuse of societies most vulnerable.
 
I hope we one day have robotic police drones that will not have this sort of prejudice. I'm not going to say this civilian killing by cops is getting out of control, because it sort of always has been out of control.

You really want to reason with ED209?
 
We shouldn't have to see tearful witnesses on TV first when this kind of shit happens. Period. The cops should be front and center spilling the fucking truth about what happened without all this mealy-mouthed under investigation dallying. Sorry about their poor families but when a life is snuffed, some justice has to be served.

Agreed, please don't think I'm trying to justify any of this shit. It just boils my blood when I see people scream "FUCK ALL COPS, THEY ARE ALL PIGS".

All people want is for cops to not escalate confrontations directly into uses of lethal weapons, and for ACCOUNTABILITY to come into play when they commit manslaughter during these incidents. They want departments to investigate the actions of cops more neutrally, and charge cops accordingly.

What the hell is so unreasonable about that?

Nothing, I agree with everything you just said.

Making excuses for the bad cops, protecting and not turning in the bad cops.
They are part of the problem because they are no longer enforcing the law.
You don't something incredibly wrong with people losing their jobs if they speak out?

I do see something incredibly wrong with people losing their jobs if they speak out, that's why I'm bringing it up. If this would be fixed, and protection would be granted, I would guess cops may be more willing to possibly speak up, at least I would hope.
 
What does defend them even mean? Are they going to talk to the local news station? Are they going to take a stand during trial?

Stop blaming all the cops who want to provide for their fucking family and wish to sustain their jobs. THEY are not the problem, the system that will destroy their career if they do speak out is the problem.

Making excuses for the bad cops, protecting and not turning in the bad cops.
They are part of the problem because they are no longer enforcing the law.
You don't something incredibly wrong with people losing their jobs if they speak out?
 
What does defend them even mean? Are they going to talk to the local news station? Are they going to take a stand during trial?

Stop blaming all the cops who want to provide for their fucking family and wish to sustain their jobs. THEY are not the problem, the system that will destroy their career if they do speak out is the problem.

...

Wow, you're really willing to go out in a blaze of glory for this, aren't you?

Every single response that you've made has done nothing but to make it clear that the institution is corrupt, and that people taking part in the instution are complicit in it's corruption. Not one thing you've said has counteracted this, and you keep on yelling about it.
 
What does defend them even mean? Are they going to talk to the local news station? Are they going to take a stand during trial?

Stop blaming all the cops who want to provide for their fucking family and wish to sustain their jobs. THEY are not the problem, the system that will destroy their career if they do speak out is the problem.

Here's an example:

Petersburg Arrest for Videotaping Arrests

All other cops had a choice, tell their colleague that it was lawful to record and to leave the boy alone, or assist in the arrest (and even act more violently than the original brute).

#notallcops though

Video, yes. Audio, only if it records after an officer turns on lights/sirens. (Some State Police have this).

I say this about audio because most equipment out there is like the PS4 share feature. You turn on the siren and it records the 15 minutes of audio before the light/sirens where turned on and the whole police stop. The video has to be turned in unedited and will be used in court. And often a lot of private stuff of officers talking between them will be heard in court that was before the stop even took place.

But yes, I approve of cameras recording police. It helps officers more than you think.

Courts could easily do an in camera review and redact the non-relevant material.
 
Speaking out could save a person's life, dude. If that actually destroys their career, that's salvagable. What happens when they don't speak out?

More people suffer under the heel of the corrupt. But it seems that's all fine as long as the cops' family is all well and provided for. Forget the other family (and possible future families) planning a funeral.
 
Given that we're talking about cops shooting unarmed civilians in this thread, what else would we be discussing? And yes, I want cops to follow the law, which involves being honest during investigations. That is, in fact, exactly what I want. If a cop breaks a rule, his buddy should narc him the fuck out. Because they are cops, not high school students. They are bound by the law they enforce, or they are simply paid thugs. You don't get to dress yourself in the concept of noble service while covering up crimes against those you serve.

Nailed it. I'd add that while I totally understand that feelings are running hot, it would be nice to tone down the "fuck cops" posts a bit, especially if that's all you have to say. It doesn't really add much to the conversation.

And speaking of not adding much to the conversation, I'll also note that I think we all understand that not all cops are bad people without being constantly reminded of it.
 
How come its always stories about American cops killing unarmed civilians? Where are all the stories about cops in other countries putting down innocent people?

I'm being sarcastic
 
lets just ban police departments everywhere. Certainly a segment of GAF will be delighted.

I think the American political system is broken in a lot of ways and full of shitty people who only care about themselves. That doesn't mean I'm in favor of not having a government.
 
lets just ban police departments everywhere. Certainly a segment of GAF will be delighted.
Nah, putting some actual pressure on them should do. If they do more then get a vacation for gunning a man down (or at least not be automatically protected by the blue wall of 'good cops'), then that would be a huge start. Cameras would help towards that
That would be one thing. Or turning down the volume on making drug-related arrests. It's hard to really figure out the solution, because harder drugs ruin people's lives and destroy communities.

More accountability for police and public officials would probably lead to a system that works better and limits instances of abuses of power. It sucks that these things keep happening.

Edit: I'm not sure what's funny.
The :lol wasn't against you or anything. I honestly think it should be legal, for obvious reasons (fewer people in jail for something as dumb as smoking a harmless plant for starters). I just laughed at the idea of it actually happening
 
Here's an example:

Petersburg Arrest for Videotaping Arrests

All other cops had a choice, tell their colleague that it was lawful to record and to leave the boy alone, or assist in the arrest (and even act more violently than the original brute).

#notallcops though


Courts could easily do an in camera review and redact the non-relevant material.

Doesn't happen all the time, especially in a system flooded with cases and in an area where every case would likely have to go through this because all officers are monitored. Not enough time or not enough money to do this.

Some departments have the money for the equipment that does this automatically though. Which is why you will see dash cam vids on Youtube with no audio for the first few seconds of a vid.
 
More people suffer under the heel of the corrupt. But it seems that's all fine as long as the cops' family is all well and provided for. Forget the other family (and possible future families) planning a funeral.

Can't blame the cops, it's the "system's" fault... whatever the fuck that's supposed to mean.
 
Well sometimes it's hard to think past your emotions and do something like whip out your cell phone and start recording. There's no footage of Brown having a clip emptied into him on the streets of Ferguson either. Most people's reactions to a shooting or impending conflict isn't to document police abuse, its to defend/shield/protect themselves and their friends and family. Or just stand by in shock.

It's the same reason a lot of these fight videos on youtube start like a minute into the actual conflict, unless they have a lot of shit talking.

Well, it's another reason police should have cameras on them at all times. If they know they're being recorded by themselves and their fellow officers they might actually behave. Of course you'll still wind up with some shady shit like videos going missing but at least then the shadiness is there for all to see.
 
Oh fucking please. It's because if they do speak up they will get fucking canned and become a black sheep.

Cops are supposed to be above the "snitches get stitches" mentality. But they aren't. It's a stressful job and they will more than often have each others back. That's why there should be cams everywhere. To remove doubt. There is no doubt the media will go whichever way they want with a story for ratings. Good cops won't suffer from badge cams. Bad cops will.

This police chief wants it.

McMillin said he realizes his officers are not enthusiastic about going on patrol with a camera on their uniforms, recording everything they do.

"I asked my officers, 'Would you rather have a first-person perspective video? Or video from someone recording with a cellphone a block away?' The reality is, we are being taped multiple times every day," the chief said.


Another who has already done it.

Farrar is the first police chief in the country to outfit all 75 beat cops with body cameras worn on lapels or eyeglasses. Others are now looking at Rialto as a test case for their own department-wide programs.

Farrar says the year before body cameras went on officers, there were 24 complaints of excessive force. The next year, it dropped to three.

"Everyone acts better," said Rialto police Sgt. Chris Hice. "I think it teaches our police officers and our citizens to treat each other more respectfully."

Hice says police body cams help tell the whole story, from start to finish.

I'm not gonna join the chorus of fuck the police but I will say there is a huge problem with police accountability that stems back a long time. this seems like a good start in the right direction. It will help the innocent and clear the good cops.
 
All of these stories are really making a case for all cops having uniform cameras to review any and all use of force and potential civil rights violations. Here's hoping that Congress can come together at some point
I doubt it
in the future to ensure that the integrity of our police forces are not undermined by their actions.
 
Cops are supposed to be above the "snitches get stitches" mentality. But they aren't. It's a stressful job and they will more than often have each others back. That's why there should be cams everywhere. To remove doubt. There is no doubt the media will go whichever way they want with a story for ratings. Good cops won't suffer from badge came. Bad cops will.

This police chief wants it.

Abso-fucking-lutely. No reason why in 2014 cops shouldn't be mandated to wear helmet cameras. It would fix so many problems.
 
Abso-fucking-lutely. No reason why in 2014 cops shouldn't be mandated to wear helmet cameras. It would fix so many problems.

So what will prevent the cops involved in this kind of shooting from making up an excuse (saying they were caught by surprise without their helmet or whatever)?
 
All of these stories are really making a case for all cops having uniform cameras to review any and all use of force and potential civil rights violations. Here's hoping that Congress can come together at some point
I doubt it
in the future to ensure that the integrity of our police forces are not undermined by their actions.

That's more of a State issue. I doubt it would fly to require departments that are getting budget cuts to buy cams for their officers. However, congress could add grants for specifically this purpose, but it would likely still be up each department to decide whether or not they 'need' it.
 
So what will prevent the cops involved in this kind of shooting from making up an excuse (saying they were caught by surprise without their helmet or whatever)?

Put it on their chest, hat? There are many places to put a camera on the human body, and a lack of it would be damning in a major situation like this if it is mandated.
 
Video, yes. Audio, only if it records after an officer turns on lights/sirens. (Some State Police have this).

I say this about audio because most equipment out there is like the PS4 share feature. You turn on the siren and it records the 15 minutes of audio before the light/sirens where turned on and the whole police stop. The video has to be turned in unedited and will be used in court. And often a lot of private stuff of officers talking between them will be heard in court that was before the stop even took place.

But yes, I approve of cameras recording police. It helps officers more than you think.
Shouldn't they be recored at all times while on duty? Here is an example of why:
http://youtu.be/sgSfCxq0hdY
They incriminate themselves because they forgot to shut off the audio recording.

sure, but certain posters seem to be articulating their anger at law enforcement as a whole
Yes law enforcement as a whole is broken, so that anger is justified.
 
Can't blame the cops, it's the "system's" fault... whatever the fuck that's supposed to mean.

The system of incentives and punishments that we have, combined with a non-perfect screening process for law enforcement candidates, will tend to create this kind of outcome. That's the sort of thing that people who say this presumably mean.

The nice thing is, at least in this case, the system may be fixable or at least patchable. The whole lapel-camera concept people are talking a lot about sounds pretty promising to me. If these shootings lead to more widespread demand for these cameras, at least some good may have come out of them.
 
Someone needs to make a website. It needs to include every person killed by the police, starting from the site's inception, going forward. It should have a picture of every killed person, their name, the badge number and name of the officer who killed them, the site of the killing, and links to details. And at the top, there should be a simple counter. And on the sidebars, the data entered should be constantly updating a series of reports, including a demographic representation of who has been killed, socioeconomic data for the dead, geographical clusters of killed citizens, etc.

I think that very shortly, we would be ashamed to look at it. I'm not sure how ashamed we have to be to do something. I've called my representatives, both state and federal, to agitate for camera laws for police, but that doesn't seem like nearly enough. But I don't know what else to do.
 
So what will prevent the cops involved in this kind of shooting from making up an excuse (saying they were caught by surprise without their helmet or whatever)?

Add it to something they can't work without. Embed it right to the uniform and have it do GPS and Audio/Video during their shift. It will help protect them from false accusations but it will also keep them in check. I also believe all officers should be evaluated regularly and also be armed with non lethal means to descalate a situation.
 
Not judging these cases across the board since they need to be investigated individually. Obviously, unique circumstances led to each case, but it almost seems like Daffy Duck or Bugs Bunny is sitting somewhere holding a sign saying "Minority Season."
 
So what will prevent the cops involved in this kind of shooting from making up an excuse (saying they were caught by surprise without their helmet or whatever)?

Make it a mandated part of their uniform. In some agencies cops are penalized for not wearing their protective armor, or not having their uniform just right. Add it to that list of requirements and add harsh penalties for not using it in the field.
 
Someone needs to make a website. It needs to include every person killed by the police, starting from the site's inception, going forward. It should have a picture of every killed person, their name, the badge number and name of the officer who killed them, the site of the killing, and links to details. And at the top, there should be a simple counter. And on the sidebars, the data entered should be constantly updating a series of reports, including a demographic representation of who has been killed, socioeconomic data for the dead, geographical clusters of killed citizens, etc.

I think that very shortly, we would be ashamed to look at it. I'm not sure how ashamed we have to be to do something. I've called my representatives, both state and federal, to agitate for camera laws for police, but that doesn't seem like nearly enough. But I don't know what else to do.
Not the same thing but...
http://www.cato.org/raidmap
 
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