mickcenary
Member
Guys and gals, the Chikage... Does the bloodied/transformed state only scale with BLT? i.e. is my 50 SKL/25 BLT going to waste/not doing all that much, respectively?
Many thanks!
Many thanks!
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Bloodborne |OT++++| Now with Trusty Patches
- Thread starter Robot Pants
- Start date
Yes.
Transformed = bloodtinge only
Untransformed = skill only
This and the slow transformation of the weapon are a bummer because that means you'll be using only half of the weapon unless you have a build like yours.
Preemptive play exists in most technical titles. A parry system does not need to work on every attack. If an attack is too fast to parry, you have i-frames for that purpose.
With my design idea, every attack is parryable, they are just tiered. You weapon swap to counter enemy type, which would up the max carry to 3 firearms. This is just a theoretical design but an interesting one.
It can work up close too but is much riskier. Players would be encouraged to keep some distance from an enemy if they want to parry with higher tiered weapons. The higher the tier (basically larger the gun) the more cooldown. Therefore if you miss, you will likely be punished.
With the rarity that trades occur, it's not an issue. Plus, I think people should be encouraged to parry more.
High level play doesn't exist in BB except possibly in PvP. I haven't explored PvP enough to make that determination. I'm getting shredded as you say because I'm going for DPS. If I dodge out 5-6 attacks into BoM I'm docked 3000+ damage. No damage runs are mostly about patience and people usually still abuse items to win dirty. I have fun with BB and post the videos to show playing in a different way. For these videos I'm going for the fastest DPS I can muster without dying from an attack due to my paper armor.
I've played action games to the degree that high-level is not even close to good enough. But BB doesn't have the system to qualify putting in such an effort, no >10,000 hours.
For what he is trying to do, yes. Otherwise, just i-frame out. I figured this idea would be conducive with this aspect of "challenge" you are reiterating. Plus, other action games demand a lot more and nobody really has much empathy for those that are too slow.
I'm not sure suffering is the word I would use. Warm-up lag gives him the advantage at times, sure. But I'm not doing to whimper if he catches me cause I'm stuck in lag. I should cancel out in time or have a better approach.
Ideal and never reality. Games which do have a system that is easy on reaction usually have either lame or exploitable combat systems. I'm also well versed in parrying systems, active frames, and proper inputs; also the lack of 60fps polling which makes a difference here. With that said, I don't see the parrying system as anything but forgiving. And with practice could basically abuse it heavily for every attack that has parry windows.
You are going to diminish your fun with that attitude. Designers do listen though and read forums, so hopefully your efforts mean something. But you will rarely see anything close to perfection. I've loosened up over the years with these games and enjoy them for what they are worth. And I have no issue making my own manual changes which may go against intention, may go against the norm.
This is a highly opinionated topic and there is no correct answer. But basically any game with a certain allowed movement, i-frames, and especially dodging, is a defensively based game. Games where your predominate means is to utilize hit-stun, projectiles, etc... to suppress enemy response is offensive. Considering most players look like scurrying mice playing BB the first time around, including myself, it's hard to argue this is an offensive based action game.
Rush-down will always exist if you can cover enough ground and maintain hit-stun. This is possible often in BB.
Krusenstern
Banned
I wonder when we will get the next patch. It's been a month since the last update and there is still some issues I like to be fixed. Hemwick hags still sound like chipmunks in the german audio.
I thought this was pretty amusing mmmmm sweet sweet byrgenwerthers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cLYH9bqNQM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cLYH9bqNQM
BaronLundi
Member
Isn't there a switch to open the bookshelf? Or go out and follow the ledge on the right?
Can't remember which one it is but I'm pretty sure it's one or the other.
Oh, that simple? I was looking for a staircase as I thought I saw one around that area.
I would give many monies to From if they give me a trick weapon that induces frenzy. The taste of that revenge would be sweet. 99 insight bullshit.So, guys, what about this as a trick weapon in the inevitable DLC?
So I was doing a randomized Chalice Dungeon and I got a Minor Weapon spoiler
Are these any different than the other canes? If so, how much different? I'm wondering if I should level this one since I'm using the cane still. Are there other versions?
Another threaded cane with some sort of prefix
Are these any different than the other canes? If so, how much different? I'm wondering if I should level this one since I'm using the cane still. Are there other versions?
iRAWRasaurus
Banned
Sneaky word choices.
KittenMaster
Member
They have different gem slots so they emphasize different types of damage more.
BaronLundi
Member
There are three versions of (almost) each weapon: normal / uncanny / lost. The nature of gem slots (radial/triangle and that other one) are the only difference.
So absolutely not worth a swap unless you have a specific plan to use specific gems.
So absolutely not worth a swap unless you have a specific plan to use specific gems.
Edit: beaten like the witches of hemwick on a first try.
JadedWriter
Member
I'm pretty sure fighting against all three is almost impossible.
Orochinagis
Member
Dat scaling boss health, one of the aspects I dislike in coop
I think the IA would have a hard time trying to move rather than hitting you
TurboLibre
Member
I'm at Ebrietas and I have no idea how to fight this thing. No matter where I try to position myself I'm getting hit with her ridiculous range. The best luck I've had was to get very close to her chest and start swinging, but then the camera just gets locked onto her back and I can't see a thing.
Any good tactics or ways to cheese this beast? I'm not having fun with it at all.
Any good tactics or ways to cheese this beast? I'm not having fun with it at all.
Always rolling and dodging to her back and keep circling around works fine, more or less(though if she is able to start the laser show... Ouch)
Cheesing wise, i think you can get stuck between her two tails and attack at will taking very little damage( i never managed to pull this off though, I'd get stuck in the tails for a couple seconds and no more.
I think there's also a way of making her stuck between some of the broken pillars by baiting her attacks into them.
Stillmatic
Member
Uploaded my Depth 4 and 5 boss battles, because they were the fun and challenging ones. The Layer 1 bosses in these dungeons were pretty boring though as most know by now. 
I had completed the game before starting Chalice Dungeons, at the first depth 4 chalice I'm Lv90. Hadn't done any Blood Gem farming, just what I had from the main game/earlier dungeons. I think by the end I had 3x Physical Att up20% equipped.
Ailing Loran |
13:32
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aa8A4OxKoxI
Defiled Chalice |
21:23
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl1cedWVEBw
Lower Loran |
12:25
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7p4jkCCKQfA
Isz Chalice |
10:10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUAvrm7lFNg
Pthumeru Iyll |
11:38
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_iu-WnPGb8
I had no idea until putting these clips together that
is fricking pregnant during the fight and whenever you attack her the baby cries! I'm stabbing her in the stomach! Feels bad man. You can even tell her clones apart by looking at their stomach, as they're not pregnant.
I had completed the game before starting Chalice Dungeons, at the first depth 4 chalice I'm Lv90. Hadn't done any Blood Gem farming, just what I had from the main game/earlier dungeons. I think by the end I had 3x Physical Att up20% equipped.
Ailing Loran |
Blood-Starve Beast - Abhorrent beast
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aa8A4OxKoxI
Defiled Chalice |
Keeper of the Old Lords - Watchdog of the Old Lords - Amygdala
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl1cedWVEBw
Lower Loran |
Loran Silverbeast - Abhorrent Beast - Loran Darkbeast
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7p4jkCCKQfA
Isz Chalice |
Brainsucker - Celestial Emissary - Ebrietas, Daughter of the Cosmos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUAvrm7lFNg
Pthumeru Iyll |
Pthumerian Descendant - Bloodletting Beast - Yharnam, Pthumerian Queen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_iu-WnPGb8
I had no idea until putting these clips together that
Yharnam Queen
Orochinagis
Member
Ebrietas have like tons of Health so this is a patience battle, there are various forms to battle her but most attack her by her right side and hide between her legs, the other form is provoque her to do her head slam and attack her head then take your distance to provoque her again.
Most of your deaths would be due her charge attack insane hitboxes, so you have to invest some points on your health and fully upgraded weapons, dont try to go for the visceral attack is pretty risky, and her third phase have a magic attack that could instant kill you if you are not aware about.
I couldnt do it alone so I asked for coop here.
The boss is pretty weak due being a false god, sorry Patches.
neoism
Member
:O. You can summon father :O WTF
I got this last night. It was my 2nd playthough, so she was asleep when I approached her. I woke her up then started trying to get behind her right away. I got between the tails and she was more or less stuck in place since she was still in her start spot and unable to back up. I was safe and took her down super fast. She never even got to her next phase.
So I got up to BSB in NG+++ and wasn't sure what I wanted to do. I was doing the normal visceral thing, baiting his sequence with stupid whiff attacks, and then felt it was dumb. So I decided to put the guns away and go for a two-hand BoM kill.
Blood Starved Beast NG+++, weak armor, no gun (03:04)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHX2_mBy0bg
I think taking him down in about 3 mins is pretty good not using viscerals. Him catching me at around 01:51 is pretty funny. He basically got me with the tip of his fingernail attacking the wrong way...through a column. You may notice how I'm a little timid on his second form. For one, a single of his strong attacks take about 80% of my health but more so, his second form chain combo auto-corrects. So I have to be a bit careful. You may also notice that I dodge into the side of his charge attacks. This is just at tip I figured out fighting him in chalice. You stay safe with your initial invincibility and his attack finishes before you land. So you can nonsensically dodge into this path and be fine. This gets you a few hits if you are lucky enough to land where he is before dodging away.
Next is Forbidden Woods so see you next century!
Blood Starved Beast NG+++, weak armor, no gun (03:04)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHX2_mBy0bg
I think taking him down in about 3 mins is pretty good not using viscerals. Him catching me at around 01:51 is pretty funny. He basically got me with the tip of his fingernail attacking the wrong way...through a column. You may notice how I'm a little timid on his second form. For one, a single of his strong attacks take about 80% of my health but more so, his second form chain combo auto-corrects. So I have to be a bit careful. You may also notice that I dodge into the side of his charge attacks. This is just at tip I figured out fighting him in chalice. You stay safe with your initial invincibility and his attack finishes before you land. So you can nonsensically dodge into this path and be fine. This gets you a few hits if you are lucky enough to land where he is before dodging away.
Next is Forbidden Woods so see you next century!
JadedWriter
Member
Finally farmed enough Ritual Blood (2) out of the first dungeon. Is level 65 high enough for the Central Pthumeru Dungeon?
That was pretty funny, they wailed on the Cleric Beast forever.
FlutterPuffs
Member
JadedWriter
Member
Oh God more weapons please!!!!!! Can't wait. Hopefully I'll have come close to beating the game by then.
Stillmatic
Member
Praise the Moon!
Laurentius
Member
|o_
\[T]/
I was fully expecting it would happen, but I am still excited! From has already proved that they know how to DLC really well with Artorias of the Abyss and the three DS2 DLCs.
A few more pieces of armor and weapons will go a long way into maintaining the longevity of the game. An arena would also be fantastic.
neoism
Member
That "Make contact" made me chuckle.
Fimbulvetr
Member
You're right that a parry system doesn't have to, and indeed shouldn't work against every attack. However, some attacks being physically impossible to react to by parrying is a terrible way of differentiating attacks between parryable and unparryable. The idea that dodging makes this workable is a separate argument, and one that holds up poorly against the actual reality of the game. Just as an example, torch-wielding basic mobs have an attack where they shove their torch in your face twice. It has no warning of any kind and executes in 10 frames. You're not reading that attack and choosing to dodge it rather than parry, it's just not possible. The only ways to counteract it are to twitch dodge or be out of its range in the first place.
The big problem with it is that it heavily encourages players to not actually master parrying. The "pocket pistol" is the option that truly requires mastery in this theoretical lineup, but why use it when you have an option that allows to to stay out of danger but still parry? That's exactly how Bloodborne already works; its parry system encourages you to stay out of harm's way in the first place, rewarding you for taking very little risk and discouraging you from actually trying to master its systems.
That's right, it's riskier. If you give them the option not to, players will never take that risk. That risk is also what makes the whole idea of parrying interesting. Having a large amount of cooldown is in line with my idea for revising the midrange parry weapon idea, so that makes some sense to me. A weapon that's specifically for parrying large enemies that has significant warmup seems like it would work, but this is only because large enemies tend to have significant warmup on their attacks. Attack and parry warmup need to coincide for any parrying system to work, and this is one of the big problems with Bloodborne: it breaks that rule extremely often.
Trades are absolutely common when you're in the enemy's attack range, and nonexistent when you're outside of it. I agree that people should be encouraged to parry more than they are in Bloodborne, but what you're proposing would encourage parrying because it's become an overpowered option with no downsides. That's not the way to do it.
High level play doesn't exist outside of PVP? That's... not even a sane viewpoint. I guess all those challenge runs that people have been doing for the past half decade in these games didn't actually exist! Your "DPS focused" playstyle is not what the game's designers wanted to encourage at all, and that should be obvious. Taking damage is a sign that you're doing something wrong, and relying on your vitality and healing items is weakness. This is not debatable. You defend your position by saying that patience is the defining skill for avoiding damage. Restraint is a skill that Bloodborne stresses hugely, sometimes overly much even, but you don't have to be a complete flailing mess like in your video to have combat be at an acceptable pace most of the time. My friend's Cleric Beast video is a fine demonstration of this, I think. If you have fun playing that way, OK, but recognize that it won't be seen as a serious demonstration of skill by anyone who really tries to master PVE in this game, and reasonably so.
I already explained that i-framing out isn't a good enough solution for this game in many cases. You really think this kind of timing is reasonable? You should be able to do what he can't then. Show me. Parry the first hit of Gascoigne's 3 hit light combo in his first form with a judged reaction multiple times (at least 3) in a single video. I'll be counting frames, so if you twitch instead of read, I'll know.
Uh... there's no canceling actions in Bloodborne. This is one of its central tenets. You are committed to every action you take, and you must judge whether to take action accordingly. This is why warmup, cooldown, and attack timings in general are so incredibly important, why I'm arguing any of this in the first place.
Even with practice there will be many attacks that are parryable that you won't be able to hit with a judged reaction parry; the best you'll be able to do is twitch and pray because again, many of these attacks are pushing the lower bounds of human reaction speed. You say this is abusable in theory. I repeat my challenge from 2 paragraphs above. Show me.
I also have no problem making my own tweaks, in fact I enjoy it. I won't stop hoping for perfection though.
This is difficult to discuss because it's so general and semantically loaded. I'm not even sure what we're trying to argue with this particular topic, and I don't think we're going to get anywhere with it. I guess the best that I can say is that players should be able to counteract any attack in some way regardless of range. Like, for example, you should be able to stay in Gascoigne's face for the entire fight and dodge or parry everything he throws at you if you're skilled enough. This example is actually true, just minus the parrying part because parrying many of his moves is pretty much impossible, and he's pseudo-random so why would you take the risk of even trying to parry up close. I think an in-your-face playstyle is what the developers intended to be the ideal playstyle for the game (at least against most bosses), and I definitely find it much more interesting than staying back and playing hit and run.
OK, I think I misunderstood what you meant by rush-down. I interpreted it as limiting your enemy's options by containing them in a certain space, like backing them into a corner. That's not really possible against AI opponents; they don't play by the same rules you do in terms of perceiving their environment and having their attacks interact with it.
Krusenstern
Banned
- I do not believe high level play exists in From games outside possibly PvP. There isn't enough depth, player importance, and most importantly, speed.
- I don't have any interest in the uber From games PVE community. My days of investing countless hours polishing mechanics of action games are pretty much over. And that was with the holy trinity titles.
- The parrying system in BB is perfectly suitable. It is also quite forgiving and I'm happy with it.
Just took down Paarl. After a horrendous start, I was able to get her down pretty quick.
Darkbeast Paarl NG+++ (02:18)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_4lSqugwIk
I believe I'm averaging overall below 3 mins a boss thus far. That's pretty quick with all the damn boss health at NG+3.
Windom Earle
Member
I am doing a low level Chalice run and Undead Giant in Lower Pthumeru is such a bitch. Dat insane range and one-shot potential in his final phase...
Patch notes??
At a certain point, isn't it kinda futile to use lower level weapons?
Are blood stone chunks actually common somewhere in the chalice dungeons? I've played a lot of them and platinumed the game, but never got a single chunk outside of the main game.
Between having 26 melee weapons and guns, plus all the variations you can end up finding in the dungeons, it really seems ridiculous that it becomes so difficult to significantly level up more than a half dozen weapons or whatever. It makes no sense to me. I think it also speaks to larger issues with the chalice dungeons, you aren't really rewarded with much of use. The occasional useful blood gem, a weapon you may or may not be able to upgrade and reasonably use, and finally just more resources to make new dungeons. It's often pretty dissatisfying.
KittenMaster
Member
I find that it's better to just start a new character if you want to experiment with different weapons.
JadedWriter
Member
Yeah I'm not messing about with the Hunters Axe or Kirkhammer until I eventually start a new character with a strength focus. I've only used Saw Spear, LHB, Threaded Cane and BoM, which given the lack of skill based weapons is all I should use. I just found the Rifle Spear yesterday at least, but it's way below my main 3 weapons level wise though.
Sticky&Sweet
Banned
Boyfriend: I tried your new PS4-thing while you were out
Me: oh? Cool, what did you play?
Boyfriend: There was a game in there called Bloodborne
Me: ....
Boyfriend: I didn't know what to do
Me: .... did you start a new character?
Boyfriend: I just went to Continue
Me: and what happened?
Boyfriend: I ran around and died, then turned it off.
Me: we're never having sex again.
Me: oh? Cool, what did you play?
Boyfriend: There was a game in there called Bloodborne
Me: ....
Boyfriend: I didn't know what to do
Me: .... did you start a new character?
Boyfriend: I just went to Continue
Me: and what happened?
Boyfriend: I ran around and died, then turned it off.
Me: we're never having sex again.
neoism
Member
fuck yeees
BaronLundi
Member
Away! Away! CURSED BEAST!
It's something that could have been done better. Chalice dungeons are taken on late game or even NG+ by most people. There are barely any chunk drops in the dungeons, which makes little sense in the scheme of things. It is difficult in BB to have a full stock of +10 weapons. I currently have 5 I think and I'm on NG+3.
This is easily fixed by raising the really low drop rates of chunks from the gargoyles and blue eyed werewolves, rocks are also very rare but slabs were extremely rare in Dark Souls too so it kinda makes sense and in fact BB gives you three of them from the Chalice Dungeons and one in each playthrough which is already better than DaS.
I don't know if I'd change anything about the rocks to be honest but chunks drop rate needs to be raised IMO (at least at NG+ and above).